Programming thread

[Primer Colonel Ragout]

2. take a good look at rust

Sorry to not mention. I don't read/use rust because the only rust program I use downloaded more than 100+ packages and I don't want an fucking npm OS embed in my OS without an good reason.

(in fact, there are some programs i really like that are written in rust)

Care to share some of the programs? In the new 'meme' languages I can think: zig with tigerbeetle, odin with the animation shit. Not with rust, the things I've heard about it are niche projects or rewrite on using it.

it's an overcomplicated language from hell and the industrial compilers with hundreds of people working on it tend to have trouble implementing some of the crazy shit the committee dreams up and nobody actually uses these features because of bad habits from 50 years of historical baggage and the trouble that compilers have implementing the shit

Never thought about the compiler side. Now I just want to know about the reunions to add features in the compiler and I will read compilers' source code and git history just to see if I can get an peak about this shitshow.

i don't understand what you're trying to say here but you obviously need to read your sicp. next

I tried to argue about the c++ in the user side.
And talking about lisp care to talk about lisp curse?

 

[Azarzaza]

Testing Godot as a UI library.

 

[Private Tag Reporter]

I tried to argue about the c++ in the user side.
And talking about lisp care to talk about lisp curse?

Reading this made me realize that Lua really is a Lisp, lmao

 

[DumbDude43]

the borrow checker is a lot like c++'s pointer templates and simply has more compile-time checking done to it
almost everything about the borrow checker is pretty trivially replicated by usage of modern (since fucking 2011 basically) c++ memory management and being moderately careful (way less careful than you need to be in c, thanks to raii, which is something that rust shills like saying is such a great rust idea that c doesn't have)

for real
unique ptr, shared ptr and weak ptr get you like 95% of the memory safety you'd get from using rust, while giving you only 10% of the headache that comes with using rust

 

[Creative Username]

Sorry to not mention. I don't read/use rust because the only rust program I use downloaded more than 100+ packages and I don't want an fucking npm OS embed in my OS without an good reason.

yeah rust is basically just c++ but they have... that fucking jeet hell attached
i trust that eventually the ecosystem will end up fragmented like c's and cargo will be less of a problem over time

Care to share some of the programs? In the new 'meme' languages I can think: zig with tigerbeetle, odin with the animation shit. Not with rust, the things I've heard about it are niche projects or rewrite on using it.

some parts of firefox are written in rust and some new mesa drivers i like are written in rust and i also use a pacman helper written in rust and probably 3000 other things

I tried to argue about the c++ in the user side.

most people who use c++ use some subset of c++ and stay in a specific corner of the language
you have the "c with smart pointers" people, the "i fucking love exceptions" people, the "i program entirely in templates" people, and various intersections and subsets of those guys
c++ doesn't actually have any real spirit to it which makes it into the large ball of committeeslop that it is
rust has the same problem but they're picking a different route to go through before they step on the rake, and it also has the benefit of being pretty close to the language from this quote:

Within C++, there is a much smaller and cleaner language struggling to get out.

unfortunately i think the definition "smaller and cleaner" is highly relative in this case

And talking about lisp care to talk about lisp curse?

it's probably going to slowly shake out as common lisp gets older and even more decrepit and schemers get more and more tired of their implementations all having slightly different ways to do <thing that all of them support>

Reading this made me realize that Lua really is a Lisp, lmao

lua is a slightly ugly variant of scheme in hash table clothing, and anybody who pretends it's not is a fucking retard

 

[Private Tag Reporter]

ugly variant

You take that back you cur

 

[Creative Username]

You take that back you cur

no sexp, no macros, not even a numerical tower! dastardly gangster communist computer languages put out by the brazilian gangster communist secret police

 

[Jotch]

I've learned to take Stalman at his word when he says something is bad, provided it's not related to basic human functions.
He named and shamed C++ before it was cool, and I am very happy I did more study in C than C++.

 

[DavidS877]

I use C++ as, well, C ++, usually for things like microcontrollers using Arduino, Pico SDK or other frameworks that are usually C++.
Of course, 99% of what I write just looks like C.

 

[Bathhouse Owner]

Happy 420 page, some words from the greatest @CrunkLord420 ?

 

[Belisarius Cawl]

I use C++ as, well, C ++, usually for things like microcontrollers using Arduino, Pico SDK or other frameworks that are usually C++.
Of course, 99% of what I write just looks like C.

ChatGPT tells me Arduino is "C++ with training wheels". Is that true?

 

[Creative Username]

ChatGPT tells me Arduino is "C++ with training wheels". Is that true?

it's completely regular c++ as implemented by gcc, shatjeetpt is probably just saying the libraries and shitty ide are a part of the language
and the poster you replied to is just saying he's one of those "c with smart pointers" people

 

[DavidS877]

ChatGPT tells me Arduino is "C++ with training wheels". Is that true?

Pretty much. As was mentioned it's full C++ but targeted at microcontrollers so it's not like you'll be running Boost. There are a ton of examples and handholding so you can easily make Babby's first blinking LED. But really "Arduino" is just a software framework and you can ignore the IDE and anything else. Personally I do most of my Microcontroller stuff with PlatformIO and VSCode no matter which framework I'm using.

 

[Belisarius Cawl]

Pretty much. As was mentioned it's full C++ but targeted at microcontrollers so it's not like you'll be running Boost.

I saw there is at least one (partial) port of STL though

 

[CrunkLord420]

Happy 420 page, some words from the greatest @CrunkLord420 ?

 

[WielkiWapiesz2137]

Reading this made me realize that Lua really is a Lisp, lmao

Lua is language that you use in order to embed scripts into your program if you don’t know any better because if you did you would have used Scheme.

 

[analrapist]

Lua is language that you use in order to embed scripts into your program if you don’t know any better because if you did you would have used Scheme.

For something that can be tightly scoped, a Forth might be a better fit than a Scheme. https://ratfactor.com/forth/the_programming_language_that_writes_itself.html

 

[Zeftax]

https://ratfactor.com/forth/the_programming_language_that_writes_itself.html

A really good article, I remember reading it some time back and really I liked it.

 

[fanutresignu]

For something that can be tightly scoped, a Forth might be a better fit than a Scheme. https://ratfactor.com/forth/the_programming_language_that_writes_itself.html

Have you ever found a situation where you wanted to embed scripts in a program and Forth was a better choice then Scheme? I've read Usenet posts and blog posts for decades about how Forth is so underrated and how powerful and flexible it is, but I have never encountered a situation where it seemed like even a remotely good choice for embedding as a scripting language. I've embedded JavaScript, Scheme, Lua, Python, and TCL and in none of those cases would Forth have been a reasonable choice. I remember a blog posts from years ago about how Forth is the language people love to implement and never use and that is true for me.

 

[Unimaginative Username]

The big problem with Forth is that it becomes unreadable once any definition becomes longer than two or three lines. Since definitions have low syntactic overhead and calling them has low runtime overhead, this doesn't sound like much of a problem until you remember that you have to find good names for all of them, and the knack for doing that seems to be pretty rare.