Questions for the female autists here - Sneed

[Sandshrew]

For me, it’s more like I’ve rehearsed what to say to random people not to look like a complete weirdo. I’ve also learned how to casually joke around with new people. It only took me around 30 years.

My hairdresser has left so I’m seeing a new woman next week which sounds like a nightmare.

Yeah, I used to be clueless in social situations until I learned to have a go-to question bank that I use when I'm getting to know someone. In general, I use my natural curiosity about everything to my advantage and ask a lot of questions, since it's a good way to keep conversation flowing. I had to also be told common courtesy things in order to grasp them, like I used to not say "Thank you" enough, and I used to not always ask others' questions back at them to show interest. I used to be extremely naive too, believing people at face-value, so I've developed a strong cautious skepticism that borders into paranoia sometimes.

I'm very sociable now, but that's because I had to sort-of study it. I view it socializing as something with rules and patterns that I've memorized, which is a very autistic way to approach it I feel. And even now, I'm still reading psychology books to better improve my relations with people. I'm still pretty lost when it comes to the dating world, though I've learned how to make friends now. So I begun reading "PEERS Social Skills Training for Adults with Autism", as it has a few chapters on dating.

I am only formally diagnosed with ADHD, as I don't want to shell out the money for an Autism diagnosis, nor have the stigma associated with it. But I'm pretty sure I'm both.

 

[Fishcat]

I have been thinking about how an often unaddressed issue for female autists is that while many experience a strong degree of disconnection with the average woman, they are nonetheless liable to experiencing various female-specific experiences and issues just like other women, but while lacking the social support and bonding with others that helps people deal with them. There are very sparse resources on helping adult autists do basic things like making friends or managing school/a job, but virtually no content exists regarding the female autist and the menstrual cycle/fertility/sex, dating/marriage as a woman, pregnancy/motherhood, misogyny, differences in general societal and communication norms for men and women, or other gendered topics where they're likely to be locked out from normie women's conversations and to have unique experiences. I suspect that the complete absence of this type of support contributes in no small amount to the tendency for autistic girls to claim to be transgender or non-binary, since they are confronted with an absolute labyrinth and no tools to navigate it except the escapist route.

 

[thyme]

I read before that autism in women can be misdiagnosed as BPD or even bipolar. What do you all think about it? I certainly believe there are psychiatrists out there who dont care about a woman feeling distress and gives them the 'you are a terrible, evil person at your core' meme diagnosis (BPD)

 

[JPS cigarettes]

I read before that autism in women can be misdiagnosed as BPD or even bipolar. What do you all think about it? I certainly believe there are psychiatrists out there who dont care about a woman feeling distress and gives them the 'you are a terrible, evil person at your core' meme diagnosis (BPD)

I was misdiagnosed with BPD when I was younger, only to find out as an adult all this time I was just autistic. Would not surprise me if psychiatrists/doctors just slap a BPD label on autistic women just to fob them off and not deal with them/shill drugs.

 

[Adrenochrome Dreams]

I read before that autism in women can be misdiagnosed as BPD or even bipolar. What do you all think about it? I certainly believe there are psychiatrists out there who dont care about a woman feeling distress and gives them the 'you are a terrible, evil person at your core' meme diagnosis (BPD)

There are a lot of BPD women demanding autism diagnoses. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/13623613211042719

I think autism is becoming over diagnosed, especially in adult women who just feel “different”, and would rather attribute that to autism than BPD (which causes identity crises and not knowing who you are) or even narcissistic personality disorder.

Since the big push for “autism awareness” for women and neurodiversity propaganda, there has been a big change in the type of woman attending autism groups.

It’s so tedious to keep seeing women diagnosed at 40, with children, husbands and successful careers, who are indistinguishable in every possible way from normies (apart from being cunts) yet insist they are autistic and know how to navigate the system to get a diagnosis. . They typically bully members with actual autism and can barely hide their disdain and sense of superiority.

 

[NoReturn]

It’s so tedious to keep seeing women diagnosed at 40, with children, husbands and successful careers, who are indistinguishable in every possible way from normies (apart from being cunts) yet insist they are autistic and know how to navigate the system to get a diagnosis. . They typically bully members with actual autism and can barely hide their disdain and sense of superiority.

I can understand getting diagnosed latter in life, especially if you were a kid in the 90s and would have ended up in the SPED classes if you did, but also if you've made it that far just fine you don't really need to have that diagnosis in your medical record, you know?

Spoiler: Personal spergery

I know exactly the phenomenon you're talking about too, and it grates on me.
I'm not trying to be all "MY case is real and YOURS is not" with these people but I look at some of these people who claim to be "like me" but then they just don't seem to understand or get it at all. I know all experiences are different between people "oN tHe SpEcTrUm" but at the same time it does feel like elementary school all over again sometimes.
"I'm Autistic, so I'm cute and quirky! YOU, however, are weird."
Like, come on, lady. I may be retarded, but I'm not STUPID. I know what contempt, resentment, and disgust look like when people look at me that way. I just don't have an automatic system in my brain that tells me how to avoid and navigate it.

 

[w.a.m.s.]

I read before that autism in women can be misdiagnosed as BPD or even bipolar. What do you all think about it? I certainly believe there are psychiatrists out there who dont care about a woman feeling distress and gives them the 'you are a terrible, evil person at your core' meme diagnosis (BPD)

Wouldn't surprise me at all, especially for women diagnosed at psych wards (where the doctor spends way less time talking to you and usually has preconceived notions about your condition due to the fact that you're at a psych ward), or perhaps when a woman is not seeking treatment of her own accord (e.g. partner or family demands she see a doctor about why she acts the way she does). Double especially if the psychiatrist can only recognize autism as "nerdy socially-clueless white guy disorder" - extra misogyny.

Spoiler: credentials / I am not a psychiatrist

I'm not a psychiatrist. I have autistic traits, though I can't tell if they are better attributed to being a sperg or being raised by a sperg. (I got formally diagnosed but go back and forth on whether it makes sense.) Half my family is autistic, and my friend groups have a disproportionate amount of autists in them. I have also had the misfortune of knowing multiple BPD women. Therefore, I feel like I can give meaningful input on this topic.

There are admittedly some similarities, particularly with lower-functioning individuals:

• Both are prone to meltdowns/outbursts; people around them may struggle to identify the triggers, or consider the triggers to be strange or trivial details
• Both can struggle with black-and-white thinking; autism spaces may phrase this as "justice sensitivity" or "dichotomous thinking."
  • Both can be vindictive related to the black-and-white thinking - though this applies less to self-aware and high-functioning autists. "If I can't have what I want, you can't have what you want either" is common with lower-functioning autists as well as BPD women. (I hear a lot about lower-functioning autists stealing or breaking people's stuff to get back at them for perceived slights. Also seems common for a lot of trans-identified people, who are disproportionately autists and cluster Bs.)
  • Both can show a lack of remorse when in the throes of black-and-white thinking. ("If they did x, me doing y is a justified response. I don't feel guilty about doing y because it was justified.")
• Take this with a truckload of salt since it's from autism reddit, but: the idea that autistic meltdowns can be triggered by being overwhelmed by your emotions or others' emotions. (See also: distinction between cognitive and affective empathy, and theory that autists sometimes have one type impaired instead of both)

Here's where those similarities get superficial, and therefore easy enough to sort that a psych should not just slap on the BPD label:

• Both can get into "red flag" relationships more easily than normies... but BPD women get into those relationships because having an undesirable partner means he can't easily leave you; autists get into those relationships because, to borrow the word from Sandshrew's post above, they can be naive. (Lack of emotional awareness makes it hard for autists to tell when someone is manipulating them; here's a detailed explanation of it.)
• Both can question interpersonal interactions in a way that normies don't... but BPD forms conspiracy theories about people without realizing they're going off the rails; autism may brush it off or think "they did something I don't understand, I'm gonna think about it" more consciously (and doesn't necessarily limit it to "is this person I care about mad at me?" type situations)
• Both can be perceived as oversharing... but BPD overshares to attract a rescuer or "test" whether people will leave them; autists don't automatically realize which details are too personal for the audience they're talking to
• Both can be perceived as confrontational... but BPD confronts to test whether someone is ~abandoning~ them; autists don't automatically realize when their question/complaint could be taken as accusing or confrontational
• Even in "everyone hates me for no reason, I can't understand why I don't get along with anyone" type cases, the autists I've interacted with have a distinct "social situations are culture shock" vibe and will sometimes go as far as phrasing it that way
• Both of these disorders have a respective cocktail of symptoms and "tells" that are associated with one and not the other.

Obviously there are some gradients for more and less functional people, but on the whole, I think a psych has to be either lazy or misogynist to conflate these two. The flat affect and lack of eye contact should point a psych in one direction over the other; if those common "autism tells" are there, is there a lack of "BPD tells" (identity shapeshifting, proactively charming and "moving towards" closeness with idealized people)? If those are missing, a psych should not mix them up.

 

[Catboi]

I read before that autism in women can be misdiagnosed as BPD or even bipolar. What do you all think about it? I certainly believe there are psychiatrists out there who dont care about a woman feeling distress and gives them the 'you are a terrible, evil person at your core' meme diagnosis (BPD)

PL but my Mom just got an autism diagnosis last year after only being called BPD for decades. So can confirm.

 

[Adrenochrome Dreams]

Most of my less-pozzed friends have come from:
.

1. Hobbies that require you to be a functional and/or independent adult tend to also drive away a lot of the tranny bullshit, especially if it's something that requires consistent dedication or any kind of physical exertion. One of the most reliable women I've ever known was a horse girl who was living her dream.

This is a sure fire way to exclude actual autists, the vast majority (~80%) of whom cannot live independently or be functional.

Good luck finding non-pozzed “autists” among the exceptionally high functioning, as autism to them is nothing more than an egotistical “identity” and they are all very political about it.

To find real autists, attend groups, programmes and community projects for the vulnerable. Some of these include hobbies and volunteering. I don’t know the process for accessing or finding these sort of things in the states.

To get non-pozzed hobbies, choose something you truly enjoy or care about outside the arts, and that appeals to older people. The majority of older people feel excluded by idpol bullshit. I don’t make friends at my hobbies but we are all focused on the topic on hand, which prevents small talk and enables me to get by along with everyone else.

Since the push to consider autism a difference rather than a disability, there has been a concurrent push to equalise diagnoses between men and women. The fact that there are 3-4 times more male than female autists is very problematic to the theory that autism is a valuable “neurotype” essential to humanity.

The solution has been to create reasons for the lack of females, come up with excuses for their lack of autism symptoms, and there has been a political push to diagnose more women.

Thus women’s groups are full of individuals with little to no symptoms but extremely fervent about their new found autism identities. Real autistics get pushed out because they have nothing in common with them, it feels exactly like interacting with neurotypicals.

Sadly, to find real autistics you have to go to mixed groups. These mixed groups will often have more men than women, in line with the true autism sex ratio.

 

[Coldsteel the Hedgehog]

This is a sure fire way to exclude actual autists, the vast majority (~80%) of whom cannot live independently or be functional.

Perhaps I misphrased, I meant independent/functional not as in "lives by themselves as a normal adult," but as in "capable of independently pursuing their interests." And before you say that excludes real autists; I once worked for an assisted living home for the actual retarded/handicapped, and many of our residents were able to attend various hobbies, classes, and groups without babysitters and based on their own interests. If a downie can get into gardening at the community center or join a local equestrian club, so can someone with autism. People with developmental disorders often have affected intelligence and capabilities, but that's different from trannies who fundamentally lack the will or desire to by responsible for themselves or others.

 

[BIG SHOT Autos]

I read before that autism in women can be misdiagnosed as BPD or even bipolar.

Sometimes I wonder if that was the case with me. I will likely never get a proper diagnosis where I live, so I'm not sure that matters much, besides, what I got diagnosed with doesn't bother me anymore at all. Also, what I experience might be ADHD instead of autism, which seems to be more plausible, considering my medical history. But again, I don't see the point of getting diagnosed, because all therapy available here is something that I can and already did look up and already implemented into my life.

Either way, I often feel more frustrated by the way the world functions rather than myself. I hate that I have to lie often times, because most people won't get reasoning behind me calling something off, or not doing/achieving something that is expected of me. Kind of. I don't think people actually care, but you know that I talk about this odd pressure constantly looming from growing up as a retarded nerd.

 

[Apochrypha]

Either way, I often feel more frustrated by the way the world functions rather than myself. I hate that I have to lie often times, because most people won't get reasoning behind me calling something off, or not doing/achieving something that is expected of me. Kind of.

It's hard to relate to a society of liars. Casually lying is so ingrained in Western society out of "politeness" that most people can't even recognize when they're doing it anymore. Often I feel like a lot of people dislike autistic women because they have this idea that women must be 100% empathetic and relatable all the time. We are the "fixers" of society and have to attend to everyone's needs, and when we say how we really feel it surprises and offends everyone. Telling the truth is punished and frowned upon. Honestly it's the entire reason I feel so disillusioned with society because I hate lying and people do it so aimlessly.

 

[Fishcat]

Either way, I often feel more frustrated by the way the world functions rather than myself.

Often I feel like a lot of people dislike autistic women because they have this idea that women must be 100% empathetic and relatable all the time.

There are a lot of aspects that are genuinely just disadvantageous/disabling (e.g., sensory issues are not fun) and this sounds like a cope but I do legitimately think that there are some social things where the autists have the right idea. Sometimes I recognize that a behavior is non-normative but I just profoundly disagree with the normie take on it, like the expectation that women are supposed to beat around the bush and dress up everything they say with emotional qualifers. In some aspects I do sympathize with the "autism is just a difference" crowd, they just take it too far and gloss over all actual negatives. I personally would say that I consider it to be a mix of negatives, neutrals, and yes, even positives, but maybe that's just my experience in the middle since I'm neither a passing late-/self-diagnoser nor a literal clinical retard who suffers drooling seizures. This is another topic but I'm irked by how broad the autism umbrella is and I think it really muddies discussions to lump everyone together. Aspergers was a useful label. Distinctions about intellectual ability are useful. I can see how the linear high-/low-functioning labels can be misleading terms since one could be far more impeded in one area than another, but it was at least an attempt to sort the pile a bit.

Anyway, I've noticed that a major point of miscommunication I've had in explaining my grievances is that people interpret the problem with various situations of "I notice that I am different from others" to be an issue of insecurity, and instinctively move to platitudes of "It's okay to not fit in, be yourself!" But I'm not suffering from low self-esteem and wishing to change myself, I'm frustrated that the people around me are acting bizarrely and that I'm not able to find like-minded individuals who get me. If you were transported to a foreign country, you would not hate yourself for not being a local, you would just be pissed and wanting to go home. This also tends to make people more uncomfortable or unsure of what script to say because "girl who feels shy and needs reassurance that she's beautiful just the way she is" is more socially acceptable than "woman thinks people around her are annoying and that it'd be great if they weren't". Their response ironically betrays their underlying mindset that fitting in is of the utmost priority and that the main problem with not doing so isn't because of how multifacetedly impractical it is, but because they'd have gone against that abstract value. Basically, they misunderstand by assuming that my issue is that I desperately aspire to become a normie, which I don't and couldn't do anyway.

Spoiler: somewhat pl

One of the things I really hate is normie dynamics about dating and relationships. It all just sounds like a hell world where people are locked in a masochistic tango communicating in riddles and tongues as they hide a million different ulterior motives and conflicting allegiances. I'm eternally grateful that I paired up with another autist (not the kind with internet poisoning) and that we have a very straightforward and drama-free relationship where we can laugh at all that sort of thing together and understand sperg stuff like "this texture is evil to me " or "I love doing this repetitive action, let's do it together ". Don't get why it's so hard for so many people to just be honest about saying "I like x, I appreciate this" or "I don't like y, stop doing this around me" instead of ~dRoPpInG hInTs~ or tinfoiling about secret meanings or bottling stuff up or roping in random third parties. And they say autists are the ones bad at communicating...

 

[thyme]

Thank you for your responses everyone. I tend to obsessively research psych diagnoses but there is so much conflicting information out there- in lower socio-economic classes, most of these psych conditions are never acknowledged. When I see videos with highly articulated self-professed youtube autists, it baffles me. The autists I knew of growing up were more visibly impaired. I understand autism is a scale, but there are so many different types of people all being categorized as autistic.

 

[NoReturn]

The autists I knew of growing up were more visibly impaired. I understand autism is a scale, but there are so many different types of people all being categorized as autistic.

That has to do more with the powers that be expanding the definition, and the destigmatizing of the title.
I was thinking about this yesterday after the comments above (shoutout to @Fishcat and @Adrenochrome Dreams in particular), but I have zero attachment or care if people call me autistic, or say I have Asperger's, or what. If the APA magically dissolved tomorrow, my nervous system would still be running the exact same way, we'd just not have a title to slap on it.
At the end of the day I am still me, I still live in a body that does weird shit that affects my ability to live like other people, but I'm a grown woman with a life I've built where I don't need special accommodation. The best thing I can be doing right now is looking out for younger people and passing along what I know to them and to their parents in the case of the younger ones.

 

[Fishcat]

If the APA magically dissolved tomorrow, my nervous system would still be running the exact same way, we'd just not have a title to slap on it.

I have a family member who is in his mid-60s and lived in a non-Western country, who has a very classic Asperger's presentation (deep fixation on specific topics, repeating quotes, socially awkward, very introverted, movements/speech is "off", you know the drill) and everyone in his life has always recognized that he has some type of fundamental difference due to this collection of traits, even though there wasn't a term for autism. Having a term and societal recognition for the concept may have helped alleviate significant challenges in his life, especially in the workplace, but there is now little reason for him to get formally diagnosed since he is enjoying a retirement where he is free to hyperfixate all day in peace.

"Autism" is in a sense not "real" in that it isn't something that you can materially detect in the same way that you could, say, test for the flu by checking for the presence of the physical virus, but it's real in as far as it's a useful category to describe a real phenomenon in people. This is why I don't understand the online self-dx types who claim that getting a one-off professional diagnosis even though they have no complaints is important because it's "validating". It's a very normie woman mindset of seeking the social approval of others. If you do not want to seek autism-centered therapy or acommodations, I don't get why it matters to have a TRUE AND HONEST SPERG badge. Because it is not an empirical thing, anyone could eventually find a lax psych who's willing to cherrypick enough evidence to scrape together a diagnosis anyway. If you do want to seek support, a diagnostic label is a formality that helps you access resources and having a term is practical for discussions about your experience.

Since the big push for “autism awareness” for women and neurodiversity propaganda, there has been a big change in the type of woman attending autism groups.

It’s so tedious to keep seeing women diagnosed at 40, with children, husbands and successful careers, who are indistinguishable in every possible way from normies (apart from being cunts) yet insist they are autistic and know how to navigate the system to get a diagnosis. . They typically bully members with actual autism and can barely hide their disdain and sense of superiority.

It's very disappointing. I hate to see support groups inundated with non-issues like "as an autist I love ordering chocolate milk at restaurants even though the social norm is to drink alcohol lol xD!" (...to be clear I don't even disagree, it's just a trivial topic) instead of actual concerns about things that matter, such as forming/maintaining social connections or education/career stuff. Once a woman in one responded to me to say that I was making other women uncomfortable by saying that I don't use Instagram and that it's an unspoken social rule to not dissent from other women's interests. I am not going to blogpost in detail about my personal struggles but it is irritating that groups which are intended for people with such issues are instead just hangouts for picrel behavior.

 

[NoReturn]

Once a woman in one responded to me to say that I was making other women uncomfortable by saying that I don't use Instagram and that it's an unspoken social rule to not dissent from other women's interests.

That's horrifying. Fuck that.

 

[ThePozzedOutCritic]

That's horrifying. Fuck that.

What's with these people and instagram?

 

[red lichen0]

What's with these people and instagram?

It's "look at me" the app

 

[Chromeo]

What's with these people and instagram?

I really hate how to get any kind of following as an artist you have to use the popular apps. I've tried using Twitter, Instagram, Bluesky, whatever, but I just fucking hate using new social medias for the first time. It puts me back in my grade school body where everybody else knows how to do everything and I'm the one little retard that can't. The constant shifting of where everyone posts, of how to format for different sites, of how it's all supposed to come easy and naturally and without asking/saying it, it's exhausting and makes me want to forgo the Internet as a whole.