🤝 Community Quiverfull Movement Lolcows - Starring the Duggars

Law and Crime made a video about the arrest containing the full phone call between Joe and his lawyer. It's longer than the clip that was previously posted ITT, so I'm including it below:

 
People and a couple of other rags are reporting a 'source close to the family' are claiming the arrests happened because of locks on the outside of bedroom doors.


While that was probably part of it, it can't be the entirety. If the bedroom doors had outside locks it would have been photographed. Kendra would have been given 48-72 hours to remedy the offense, at which point there would have been a recheck of the home. The children would not have been taken if this were the only accusation. Kendra and Joe would not have been charged with endangering along with false imprisonment.

I think the source People cites is trying to downplay whatever was going on in that house to protect the Duggars. We will probably never know since it's part of their dependency case and not the criminal one. But I can almost promise you...this was more than locks on outside doors. You just don't get arrested for that, especially not in Arkansas.
 
Shakira Flabbergasted said:
Sorry for posting so much, I'll try to stop now. The temptation to talk endlessly about this topic is strong but I must resist.
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It seems necessary for you to talk endlessly about this topic, though, because I thought this was all very common knowledge ever since the boom in ex-muslim memoirs that started in the 2000s. Westerners raised in moderate or near-secular Christian sects should take all of 3 minutes to understand the shit IBLP members go through if they've read Ayaan Hirsi/Marina Nemat/Yasmeen Mohammed type stuff. Azar Nafisi had a god damn NYT bestseller in 2003 that even other muslims read. It's just Salafists and Sharia except in Arkansas, shouldn't be so hard for them to stop blaming the women.
 
Don’t underestimate the power of indoctrinating people from birth with fear tactics. It’s an effective way to get them to thought police themselves. A deep-rooted fear of burning in hell for all eternity for the sin of doing normal things has literally re-wired their brains and keeps them up at night having panic attacks.

I know someone raised in a fundie denomination, albeit one where most of the toxicity was concentrated on end times paranoia as opposed to sex and gender roles (although of course their views on that were also conservative). He grew up with Q-anon level conspiritards for parents who did weird shit like make him drink hydrogen peroxide to “cleanse the toxins in his system” and cure his adhd. Their church is isolated from even other Christians due to its odd theology. He was likewise heavily sheltered from the secular world (because everything is satanic of course) and received a questionable education. A lot of those kids get homeschooled, but they also have a fairly robust private school system in the US.

In his church and in his fundie school classes, adults would casually talk about the apocalypse on a regular basis. Every single news story or current world event was twisted to be proof that Satan was taking over, the world was ending soon, and they’d all be killed by the government any day now so they had to get right with God.

The single worst horror story he told me is when his academy in the 7th grade had an “end times persecution drill”. Their parents barged into the classroom with realistic guns disguised as masked military police and started aggressively questioning their faith at gunpoint to ‘test’ them. When most of them were too paralyzed with terror to react like bold Christian martyrs, they got a long condescending lecture about it.

Needless to say, the trauma kept him psychologically trapped for a long time. Deconstruction from any cult is inevitably going to be a slow, agonizing process. But add severe CPTSD on top of everything and it’s several orders of magnitude more difficult.

Even then, he had one advantage IBLP fundies don’t—members of his church were allowed to get an education due to needing doctors and nurses for their medical missionary work. If he struggled that much with fundie indoctrination as an adult man who had an otherwise normal life after moving out of his parents’ house, how can we expect abused and exploited women with a 5th grade education at best to throw off the shackles of a cult upbringing with so much worse stacked against them?
 
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Liber Nihil said:
how can we expect abused and exploited women with a 5th grade education at best to throw off the shackles of a cult upbringing with so much worse stacked against them?
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Just look at the Amish community and some of the weird shit that they're accused of. Granted, it's more along the lines of graduating degrees of social ostracism for when they speak out about it; but still, it's nothing that an GED course and a bit of willpower can't fix
 
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AMHOLIO said:
That's 20 years ago. There are 26 year olds who were 3 when 2003 happened. There's a literal generational gap between now and then.
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Yeah so it's been in the western zeitgeist for 20 years. Why come everyone can remember that nalgene bottles are bad now but not other facts from the same time? Checkmate, Mr. Holio.
 
“The gub’mint won’t let me stick my fingers in my toddler daughter’s vagina for my own personal pleasure which is my right as a man” crowd is screaming about persecution again.

Poor Kendra, what will she do if she’s not allowed to beat the shit out of her babies and lock them in punishment rooms. I bet she resents the girls and her sister especially for being more desirable to her husband than she is.
 
Plus Size Polka said:
“The gub’mint won’t let me stick my fingers in my toddler daughter’s vagina for my own personal pleasure which is my right as a man” crowd is screaming about persecution again.

Poor Kendra, what will she do if she’s not allowed to beat the shit out of her babies and lock them in punishment rooms. I bet she resents the girls and her sister especially for being more desirable to her husband than she is.
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I love when these idiots unintentionally imply their religion requires child abuse by crying persecution.
 
Liber Nihil said:
The single worst horror story he told me is when his academy in the 7th grade had an “end times persecution drill”. Their parents barged into the classroom with realistic guns disguised as masked military police and started aggressively questioning their faith at gunpoint to ‘test’ them. When most of them were too paralyzed with terror to react like bold Christian martyrs, they got a long condescending lecture about it.
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I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised to learn that this particular “game” isn’t unique to the Jesus camp I attended as a child.

It was always played as a “capstone” to the week’s activities. In our version, you had to pretend you were in a country where it is illegal to be Christian, and find counselors hiding throughout the camp at night to “build an underground church” (because white fundies love to imagine they are just as persecuted as the people their ancestors likely enslaved). Other counselors acted as the Secret Police. If the Secret Police stopped you with their flashlight beams, they would demand to know your religious identity. Should you profess your faith, your reward was that the counselor would mime shooting you in the head, and you had to lay on the ground in the dark without moving or speaking at all until the game was over (strictly enforced by a counselor who would yell “dead people don’t talk!”). So your traditional camp game of flashlight tag, except with martyrs! Like in your friend’s story, all who revealed themselves to be apostates were shamed in the post-game debrief. There was a lot of sobbing from the martyred and apostates alike.

Turns out I’m too autistic to be indoctrinated: don’t all the crying kids know that it’s just pretend? And if you really were in a situation where you cared deeply about something forbidden, would it not be better to say whatever you needed so that you aren’t fucking shot before you can carry out the worK? What good could anyone do for their cause once they were dead? It was the so-called apostates who built the church in the end, not the martyrs. And would a god not know what was truly in the hearts of the apostates, anyhow? Would a god also not desire for its worshippers to do everything in their power to sustain their lives in further service of that god?

They should have had everyone craft a belt of hot dogs to wear under their clothes to simulate having the option of a suicide bomb, so at least if you chose to go out as a martyr you’d still be doing something helpful.

Luckily for me, I was both too ugly and too contrarian to be molested.
 
The reason they're obsessed with persecution and martyrdom is because they're a cult because, as fundamentalists, they're trained to take certain scriptures extremely literally and out of context. A frequently quoted passage is 2 Timothy 2:12 - "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." They take this to mean that the inverse is also true - that, if you don't suffer persecution from outsiders, you're not living godly. This leads to any and all legal consequences for one's actions being interpreted as religious persecution by the state and as a sign that they're being tried by Satan to see if they'll continue doing the right thing. Children are property and can, according to the Old Testament, be stoned to death for disobeying their parents (Deuteronomy 21:18-21). (Fundies cite Matthew 5:17 to argue that their favorite cherry-picked OT scriptures are still in effect. This, naturally, does not apply to any OT scriptures which are inconvenient for them.)

TL;DR: Yes, their religion does sanction child abuse, up to and including abuse that results in the death of the child, and if you try to enforce the law on them you're persecuting them, which is confirmation that abusing children is godly.
 
Plus Size Polka said:
“The gub’mint won’t let me stick my fingers in my toddler daughter’s vagina for my own personal pleasure which is my right as a man” crowd is screaming about persecution again.

Poor Kendra, what will she do if she’s not allowed to beat the shit out of her babies and lock them in punishment rooms. I bet she resents the girls and her sister especially for being more desirable to her husband than she is.
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It’s extra stupid to cry conspiracy in Joe’s case since he confessed. And wasn’t the victim from another fundie family they were close enough to be vacationing with? The sin is coming from inside the camp, and so are the accusations.

I am very curious to know what the full charges are on Kendra. I wonder if the local police took the opportunity to raid the Duggar compound and this is an attempt to do preemptive damage control for whatever unflattering information might get released soon.
 
I am sure they will find more. The police press release alluded to as much, saying they were still investigating and more charges could be forthcoming.

We will not be privy to those charges beyond their criminal component, as dependency/neglect hearings aren't considered public interest and the kids are entitled to a degree of privacy.

Looking again at Kendra's charges, my semi-educated guess is that there was a kinship placement, or multiple kinship placements, for the kids within a day or two of her arrest. They (Kendra, her attorney as respondent parent, and the kids' guardian ad litem - all four kids will have one single GAL) will probably see the family court judge at least once before her plea hearing in criminal court on the 29th of April to set up supervised visits at a reunification center. Kendra will be drug tested. Supervision will be with a state employee, not family.

If she is cooperative with the GAL and the state, there is even a chance she has custody restored before the criminal proceeding because it's Arkansas and the hoops she will have to jump through to show parental fitness are not difficult ones. They are the bottom of the barrel for the country in ensuring child welfare (along with MS and LA) for a reason, so my family court expectations are quite low.

Anybody know if her plea to her criminal charges would impact custody (beyond refusal to remedy) in AR?

Eta to get kinship placement there would be a criminal background check, urine drug screen and a home visit. They try to do it as quickly as possible, obviously. Where I am, anyone living on the 'compound' would immediately be excluded because they can't guarantee the kids' safety there. But this is AR, so again, who tf knows.
 
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NerdShamer said:
Just look at the Amish community and some of the weird shit that they're accused of. Granted, it's more along the lines of graduating degrees of social ostracism for when they speak out about it; but still, it's nothing that an GED course and a bit of willpower can't fix
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At least ex-Amish who find themselves shunned can go out into the world with some level of marketable trade skills to fall back on while they catch up with modern society. Since young adults are all given the opportunity to leave by choice, there’s also existing support networks to reach out to for help.

Fundie cults like the IBLP function by design to make sure it’s as difficult to leave as possible. They control their children physically, financially, and psychologically. No, it’s not impossible to escape if you have enough fighting spirit, but being able to break free of the mind control is just the first hurdle. You need resources and a rock solid support system to successfully clear the rest, especially if you’re a woman who would end up a single mom of a half dozen kids. Thats not even taking into consideration that you might also have to divorce a vindictive husband or fight your cult leader in-laws for custody rights. In the face of all that you might just give up and double down on the long-suffering Christian tradwife identity to cope.

It’s not a coincidence that the only Duggar daughters who came anywhere close to “deconstructing” are the ones who married normie conservative men that went to college and had zero interest in breeding their way into crippling poverty.
 
Liber Nihil said:
It’s extra stupid to cry conspiracy in Joe’s case since he confessed. And wasn’t the victim from another fundie family they were close enough to be vacationing with? The sin is coming from inside the camp, and so are the accusations.

I am very curious to know what the full charges are on Kendra. I wonder if the local police took the opportunity to raid the Duggar compound and this is an attempt to do preemptive damage control for whatever unflattering information might get released soon.
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You’re not wrong; in WOACB’s video from last night she talks about how this is actually likely being reported by the victim now because someone in their circle reported being abused similarly and their family reacted 1. Appropriately and 2. Against the IBLP/jim bob script for how to react, I.e they went to the police instead of handling it internally with church elders. She described this as starting a fundie me too movement which triggered others to come forward, including Joe’s victim and probably others in the near future.
 
prolific_mango said:
You’re not wrong; in WOACB’s video from last night she talks about how this is actually likely being reported by the victim now because someone in their circle reported being abused similarly and their family reacted 1. Appropriately and 2. Against the IBLP/jim bob script for how to react, I.e they went to the police instead of handling it internally with church elders. She described this as starting a fundie me too movement which triggered others to come forward, including Joe’s victim and probably others in the near future.
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I mean, WOACB is about as reliable a source for information as idk, fuckin’ tea leaves or something, but I do agree with this point. A broken clock is right twice a day, after all. Everything else from her mouth I’ll take with a whole soup ladle of salt until she gives receipts and accurate sources.

I just wonder if Kendra had her suspicions and that’s why they randomly stopped popping out offspring at lightning speed like they seemed to be on track to do. When I found out they’d got four kids I was honestly surprised it wasn’t like, six already. At least they won’t be able to have any more (probably much to the glee of Anna “At least I have a husband” Duggar who’s still holding onto the title of Number One Duggar Gen 2 Baby Cannon”).
 
Statement from Jason (one of the lost boys) and his wife Maddie:

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Obviously there's plenty to be said for the cognitive dissonance needed to defend your children one of whom being a convicted pedo and the other more than likely to soon join the ranks. the mental gymnastics needed are truly next level and I have no doubt that both Michelle and Jim Bob will die believing they did nothing wrong.
 
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