r/antiwork - Yes, it's exactly what it sounds like.

How will society function without jobs?


  • Total voters
    900
  • Poll closed .
Yeah, I don't think these kids actually realize how rewarding work and employment can actually be. Not from a "brainwashed normie" perspective, but from an actual instinctual perspective, like how we actually evolved to forage and gather and enjoy doing it. That's kind of how you know none of them have even begun to work, and why I think people are giving them too much credit in saying that some of them do work, they just work lousy jobs. I think even having a fucking burgerflipper job would make you feel at least a little invigorated compared to sleeping all day and /pol/posting all night. At least then you feel important, feel needed.

I'll give you anything a majority of these kids have self-diagnosed "depression" from having no hobbies, doing no constructive work (not even chores) and browsing reddit/twitter all day.
Work is actually natural and very stress relieving, the problem is that ever since society is a thing, we've been raised to become someone else's work-force, eg: the blueprints for worker management from the industrial revolution days were actually used and still are the same one applied for public and private education in the great majority of the planet to this day.

This is because, humans are by nature more animalistic than we give ourselves credit for, if left to our own devices and enjoy life, society would be far more wild and chaotic and this is unhealthy for geopolitics which time and time again have been proven to rule us as an organism does with cells, so it's only natural that we regulate ourselves weaponizing neuroticism in order to submit.

Even since early childhood, we're forced to sit on classroom and obey the commands of a cocksucker so we project ourselves doing so for the rest of our lives, the "educational learning" from school is just a thin veiled facade to justify teaching us to follow orders, very few are the ones who realize this and instead of becoming workers they become parasites, this people are usually filthy rich or famous and don't live under slave-labor because they found clever ways to manipulate the system for their selfish benefit, becoming themselves the employers and commanders.

The advantage of modern society in contrast to shitty ancient times or shitholes countries is that we at least have the choice to not work, the tards from that sub-reddit don't realize that we have it much easier despise the ultra-competitive world and they are just throwing a tantrum, demanding to be treated like babies from forces that don't even exist, because they are too incompetent to actually become good parasites themselves as they secretly wish.
 
Yeah, I don't think these kids actually realize how rewarding work and employment can actually be. Not from a "brainwashed normie" perspective, but from an actual instinctual perspective, like how we actually evolved to forage and gather and enjoy doing it. That's kind of how you know none of them have even begun to work, and why I think people are giving them too much credit in saying that some of them do work, they just work lousy jobs. I think even having a fucking burgerflipper job would make you feel at least a little invigorated compared to sleeping all day and /pol/posting all night. At least then you feel important, feel needed.

I'll give you anything a majority of these kids have self-diagnosed "depression" from having no hobbies, doing no constructive work (not even chores) and browsing reddit/twitter all day.
It does. r/antiwork does not take into consideration of doing something good without massive acclaim that they so desperately want. For all we know, flipping burgers could feed the poor guy who can’t drive to another restaurant because he doesn’t have money for gas until next week. You could also make burgers for athletes visiting the President and wouldn’t that be cool? Yes, that actually happened.


Granted, you probably won’t get that chance, but jobs exist for a reason and it’s not just to feed one’s ego. I would rather be friends with someone who flips my burger than a germnalists whining about how we must restrict meat because global warming will totally kill us in eleven years. Guess what r/antiwork prefers?
 
I'm not gonna lie, sometimes I myself fantasize about a utopia, a place where all work is automated. In that utopia, people are still obligated to do something. Even if all manual labor would be abolished in an ideal world, people would still be forced to perform some action to receive additional benefits, better food, better furniture, better toys, etc.. It would be great if stuff like a very liberal selection of foods were a human right, along with utilities and internet. But humans need to work. A "utopia" where all work is automated and manual labor is abolished, without any sort of reward system for manual labor for the sake of it, would cause mass depression and mental illness. I'm talking an epidemic here. A fully automated utopia would be incomplete without obligated purposehood, no matter what it is. Even if "the system" rewarded people for getting on a stationary bike or making videos, there needs to be some obligated manual labor, just to keep our instincts sated.

But, these are reddit users after all. They consider having a mental illness to be some sort of superpower. These are the same people who (think they) want to live in a japanese hotel pod and feed off Soylent.
 
I'm not gonna lie, sometimes I myself fantasize about a utopia, a place where all work is automated. In that utopia, people are still obligated to do something. Even if all manual labor would be abolished in an ideal world, people would still be forced to perform some action to receive additional benefits, better food, better furniture, better toys, etc.. It would be great if stuff like a very liberal selection of foods were a human right, along with utilities and internet. But humans need to work. A "utopia" where all work is automated and manual labor is abolished, without any sort of reward system for manual labor for the sake of it, would cause mass depression and mental illness. I'm talking an epidemic here. A fully automated utopia would be incomplete without obligated purposehood, no matter what it is. Even if "the system" rewarded people for getting on a stationary bike or making videos, there needs to be some obligated manual labor, just to keep our instincts sated.

But, these are reddit users after all. They consider having a mental illness to be some sort of superpower. These are the same people who (think they) want to live in a japanese hotel pod and feed off Soylent.
Even with the advent of manual labor, I don’t see it ever taking jobs like art, which requires imagination beyond repetitive tasks. There will always be work that robots and automation cannot replace. It’s just that we will be seeing more jobs shift towards building new technologies or creative arts.
 
Even with the advent of manual labor, I don’t see it ever taking jobs like art, which requires imagination beyond repetitive tasks. There will always be work that robots and automation cannot replace. It’s just that we will be seeing more jobs shift towards building new technologies or creative arts.

I figure in a completely automated world, where machines would have to engineer new structures and products, and would be required to be sapient enough to perform medical and surgical work (which are anything but mundane and predictable), that they would be obligated to have some form of creativity and imagination. There are just way too many jobs that require a human's creativity and wit.

Combine that with whatever schlock is popular on TV and YouTube, which look like some soulless corporate turd some AI shit out for the sake of ad revenue, and I'm pretty sure art and entertainment could be trivially automated, well before anything requiring real thought (like engineering and medical science) would be. Hell, when was the last time you saw a post on twitter or facebook that didn't look like a markov chain produced it?

I'd think in a truly automated society, creativity would pretty much have to be the one thing that would be outlawed from automation. It would be way too easy for machines to overtake that sector otherwise.
 
Yeah, I don't think these kids actually realize how rewarding work and employment can actually be. Not from a "brainwashed normie" perspective, but from an actual instinctual perspective, like how we actually evolved to forage and gather and enjoy doing it. That's kind of how you know none of them have even begun to work, and why I think people are giving them too much credit in saying that some of them do work, they just work lousy jobs. I think even having a fucking burgerflipper job would make you feel at least a little invigorated compared to sleeping all day and /pol/posting all night. At least then you feel important, feel needed.

I'll give you anything a majority of these kids have self-diagnosed "depression" from having no hobbies, doing no constructive work (not even chores) and browsing reddit/twitter all day.
Even most video games involve the collection of resources to make your character/entity stronger, it's a similar reward loop to work with the boring bits and real life modern restrictions cut out.
 
I figure in a completely automated world, where machines would have to engineer new structures and products, and would be required to be sapient enough to perform medical and surgical work (which are anything but mundane and predictable), that they would be obligated to have some form of creativity and imagination. There are just way too many jobs that require a human's creativity and wit.

Combine that with whatever schlock is popular on TV and YouTube, which look like some soulless corporate turd some AI shit out for the sake of ad revenue, and I'm pretty sure art and entertainment could be trivially automated, well before anything requiring real thought (like engineering and medical science) would be. Hell, when was the last time you saw a post on twitter or facebook that didn't look like a markov chain produced it?

I'd think in a truly automated society, creativity would pretty much have to be the one thing that would be outlawed from automation. It would be way too easy for machines to overtake that sector otherwise.
I don't think we will ever get rid of human based complex problem solving. It's one thing to have a robot crank out a standardized kitchen cabinet. It's another thing to make that cabinet fit a non-standardized kitchen remodel. And, most importantly, anothing to make the customer happy with the compromises made fitting that damn thing in there.

I don't think the automation crowd has enough of an appreciation of the interpersonal interactions that happen integral with the delivery of goods and services. Quite often these are more important than whatever product is being dispensed. Vending machines could serve gourmet meals but people would still prefer to eat at fancy restaurants kind of thing.
 
Fascinating subreddit, It's like they read The Culture series and missed that the general population wanted to serve The Culture and that only a chosen few were capable of doing so.

I really can't stand this idea of "fully automated gay space communism" or whatever they're calling it now, and I think it stems from being milquetoast, middle class failures to launch. Think about it, they have no passion to work toward, no stop gap job to use to finance a side career or education that could take off in the future, and clearly don't "need" to work, passing their costs off to someone else.

Their lives are essentially completely devoid of meaning, and they either refuse to or are incapable of finding meaning within themselves. These are a type of people that just really shouldn't be alive.
 
Eastern Germany, which was meant as model propaganda state to show the west that socialism works and everyone is happy under socialism also had the directive that there is to be zero unemployment in the entire country. Seriously. As everyone knows who knows only a bit about the complexities of the economy of a bigger group of people, (like a country) effectively this is impossible. Mostly it was solved by shoving ten people into a job that could be done by one person, which lead to such interesting situations where workers would sit around in factories that would produce nothing (as supply with resources was unreliable in quite a few industries) and would spend their time at work drinking with buddies and building very elaborate recreational facilities. I'm not even exaggerating. If you have ever seen one of the episodes of MASH where the doctors were bored out of their minds because there were no wounded, it was kinda like that.

It also was impossible to get fired from a job pretty much, which led to such situations as that you could go to restaurants to eat and find the whole staff chatting and hanging out with each other and ignoring the customers, if you complained, you simply wouldn't get any food until you left, as opposed to just waiting for an hour for it. These experiences also all disregard the intense thought policing, non-existing privacy and other human rights violations that happened. Everyone who had two braincells to rub together hated living in that country.

We already have a problem with employment as new jobs aren't created at the rate they would be needed to to even keep up with population growth and the "computer revolution" and the non-preceded automation is destroying jobs without replacing them with better ones in sufficient numbers (which is very unlike every other technological revolution we had) either we curb population growth a lot (which might not even be sufficient and which is a problem with current systems) or just get used to the thought that there will be people that'll never work. The current approach is to undercut the machines by making human labor so cheap that automation is expensive in comparison, but even this will not work forever (see: even McDonalds automating some staff away) and as you can imagine, it does not exactly lead to high quality of life.

People also underestimate the domino effect technological progress can have. Take automated cars: Imagine cars that drive a lot safer than humans do. A lot less accidents happening, fewer people die. A good thing, isn't it? The obvious is that it puts taxi drivers out of a job, the less obvious is that it also endagers seemingly unrelated industries that depend on the accidents happening, for example the insurance industry. Ever thought about what self-driving cars will have an effect on insurance companies and the livelihoods of people that work there? Most people never did.

A well written, very accessible book on this topic is "Rise of the Robots: Technology and the Threat of a Jobless Future" - I have to warn it makes for some uncomfortable reading though.

On the topic at hand, it might be me becoming an old softie but I can kinda understand when some young people that sort of slip through the nets (which seems to get easier each year) and don't find a nice, livable job end up as outliers disillusioned with the whole system. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is certainly not the solution and people are being idiots about it, but I can understand the sheer frustration of some. As older fart in my country where the middle-class had it very good I can remember a time where family fathers could buy houses and support a wife and two kids with a job that basically amounted to do customer support via the phone for bus and train tickets. The job might not have been exactly super-fulfilling and purposeful but it enabled those people to have a place in society and be proud for what they did. Can you imagine that now?
 
Real Marxism-Snorlaxism has never been tried before guys!
In all honesty Reddit's weird leftist psuedo commie stuff only stands out because the reddit mods don't allow the weird psuedo nazi stuff there anymore. Hard to laugh at spergs when they ban half of them...

Subreddit rules:
No discriminatory language or actions towards others.

What about classism, prole. Checkmate trostky, I win you lose bye bye.
 
Eastern Germany, which was meant as model propaganda state to show the west that socialism works and everyone is happy under socialism also had the directive that there is to be zero unemployment in the entire country. Seriously. As everyone knows who knows only a bit about the complexities of the economy of a bigger group of people, (like a country) effectively this is impossible. Mostly it was solved by shoving ten people into a job that could be done by one person, which lead to such interesting situations where workers would sit around in factories that would produce nothing (as supply with resources was unreliable in quite a few industries) and would spend their time at work drinking with buddies and building very elaborate recreational facilities. I'm not even exaggerating. If you have ever seen one of the episodes of MASH where the doctors were bored out of their minds because there were no wounded, it was kinda like that.

It also was impossible to get fired from a job pretty much, which led to such situations as that you could go to restaurants to eat and find the whole staff chatting and hanging out with each other and ignoring the customers, if you complained, you simply wouldn't get any food until you left, as opposed to just waiting for an hour for it. These experiences also all disregard the intense thought policing, non-existing privacy and other human rights violations that happened. Everyone who had two braincells to rub together hated living in that country.

We already have a problem with employment as new jobs aren't created at the rate they would be needed to to even keep up with population growth and the "computer revolution" and the non-preceded automation is destroying jobs without replacing them with better ones in sufficient numbers (which is very unlike every other technological revolution we had) either we curb population growth a lot (which might not even be sufficient and which is a problem with current systems) or just get used to the thought that there will be people that'll never work. The current approach is to undercut the machines by making human labor so cheap that automation is expensive in comparison, but even this will not work forever (see: even McDonalds automating some staff away) and as you can imagine, it does not exactly lead to high quality of life.

People also underestimate the domino effect technological progress can have. Take automated cars: Imagine cars that drive a lot safer than humans do. A lot less accidents happening, fewer people die. A good thing, isn't it? The obvious is that it puts taxi drivers out of a job, the less obvious is that it also endagers seemingly unrelated industries that depend on the accidents happening, for example the insurance industry. Ever thought about what self-driving cars will have an effect on insurance companies and the livelihoods of people that work there? Most people never did.

A well written, very accessible book on this topic is "Rise of the Robots: Technology and the Threat of a Jobless Future" - I have to warn it makes for some uncomfortable reading though.

On the topic at hand, it might be me becoming an old softie but I can kinda understand when some young people that sort of slip through the nets (which seems to get easier each year) and don't find a nice, livable job end up as outliers disillusioned with the whole system. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is certainly not the solution and people are being idiots about it, but I can understand the sheer frustration of some. As older fart in my country where the middle-class had it very good I can remember a time where family fathers could buy houses and support a wife and two kids with a job that basically amounted to do customer support via the phone for bus and train tickets. The job might not have been exactly super-fulfilling and purposeful but it enabled those people to have a place in society and be proud for what they did. Can you imagine that now?

These problems are only problems in our current economic and societal system. Under continuing capitalism, the issue of jobs disappearing under automation, and existing jobs being tied to automation in such a way as to make them a living hell for their workers (constantly raised "productivity" demands and punishment for diverging from them) is described in a different short story I forget the name of.

The only way you can maintain society in a world where automation and robots actively start replacing people in many jobs is to have essentially UBI with incentives for creative people to do stuff that helps further all of society, while the chaff of society is happy to sit around on their asses consooming until they die. When robots are growing our food and mining our iron, there's no real issue with giving people what amounts to UBI (essentially access to food vouchers and whatnot) and just leaving them alone.

At the moment AI is not terribly smart but I really do believe that at some point in the future we're going to have to make a decision how we, as a society, are going to continue, and whether or not that will be 70% unemployment, and most of the population living in dystopian mega ghettos with nothing but the bare minimum to survive, or if it's going to be a move away from a capitalist system where people work only if they actually want to do so, and most people who work are doing creative things because manual labor is handled by robots
 
We already have a problem with employment as new jobs aren't created at the rate they would be needed to to even keep up with population growth and the "computer revolution" and the non-preceded automation is destroying jobs without replacing them with better ones in sufficient numbers (which is very unlike every other technological revolution we had) either we curb population growth a lot (which might not even be sufficient and which is a problem with current systems) or just get used to the thought that there will be people that'll never work.
I disagree. As the wealth of society increases consumption also does. This leads people to hire out services that either they would do themselves or not do entirely. Mo' money mo' jobs essentially. And automation was done for a reason. It's cheaper. this allows people to focus on the jobs we do well and robots don't. This has been the story of technological advancement since the Luddites at least. It's not new or revolutionary at all.

As older fart in my country where the middle-class had it very good I can remember a time where family fathers could buy houses and support a wife and two kids with a job that basically amounted to do customer support via the phone for bus and train tickets. The job might not have been exactly super-fulfilling and purposeful but it enabled those people to have a place in society and be proud for what they did. Can you imagine that now?
The world, particularly North America, from the late 1940's to early 1960's was unusual. Every developed society was bombed flat or bankrupt because of the war. There was no competition economically so things were unbalanced for a bit. But eventually the rest of the world caught back up. If you look you will find that standards of living outside of that very short period of time were more-or-less what we see now. Those pioneers didn't ride the Oregon Trail because they were brave frontiersmen. It's because it was the only way they could own a home and support a wife and kids with a job that basically amounted to do customer support via the phone for bus and train tickets. Y'know once they tamed the west and built a society out there and that whole thing.
 
Rudyard Kipling said:
In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."
It's as true today as it was when he wrote it.
 
View attachment 1052489
Brought to the logical conclusion, isn't literally anything you need to do for a btter life slavery? "Oh, I must track the deer down to eat it. Nature is enslaving me."
View attachment 1052491
Decent enough point, a good amount of super rich people started higher than the rest. But, that's kind of the point, working hard for your children to become better than you ever were.
Also, my Granddad is a selfmade man. He went to Korea, worked on radar and the like on an airbase there, came home from the war, went to college, and started a company from what he learned. He did very well for himself, and he's not a 'myth'.

Arthur Davidson's "rich uncle" loaned them a grand total of...$500. Obviously that's more money today because it would be about $13,000. That's still not a huge amount of money even at the time. The "rich uncle" owned a fucking bee farm, not a job most people associate with extreme wealth. That money would have gone very quickly and their company would have folded if the product wasn't good. This was after the seed money they'd raised from other investors was apparently stolen, so it's not like this was their first choice. Those guys built their own motorcycles in a basement in Milwaukee but aren't "self-made" because one of their uncles was a small businessman who owned a bee farm somewhere lmao. So you can't be "self-made" if literally anyone in your extended family has any money. Okay.

Warren Buffet's father was a congressman for a grand total of 8 years. He owned a tiny investment firm in fucking Nebraska. He was hardly a Wall Street Tycoon. From this, Warren Buffet became worth 81 billion dollars. He's about as self-made as anyone can possibly be. The idea that someone rising to be worth 80 billion dollars isn't "self-made" if he was from a middle class family in Nebraska is completely insane.

Obviously people from educated families are more likely to be successful than people from extremely poor families where no one has ever attended college. I don't think anyone believes everyone has equal likelihood of success. But defining "self-made" as only counting if someone, I don't know, grew up in abject, extreme poverty is completely asinine.
 
Back