Plagued /r/TNOmod and the Reddit HOI4 modding community - When a subreddit for a video game mod turns to utter insanity

EpicGamerMoment said:
Cutting Room Floor came out in November. Four months after TNO's release. CRF was supposed to be stuff that was cut last minute. It took them FOUR MONTHS to release shit that was supposed to be in 1.0
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Yeah, I know. That's what I meant to imply with my post. Reporting that they're totally dysfunctional and just a circlejerk isn't a new development is what I was getting at.
 
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Have recent developments proven Panzer right?
People kept shitting on him due to his overly demanding and near exploitative leadership style, but he also got things done - nearly all of TNO got finished in just one year, and it was pretty impressive despite it's many flaws.

Pacifica and the succeeding goons may be "softer", but that just results in nothing being done. Toolbox Theory got delayed from Winter to March to an undefined future date - and by the looks of it, most of it will just be the old mechanics in a new package.

Drama can't kill TNO, but content droughts can, and the mod hasn't received a serious update for half a year now.
 
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morfent said:
Have recent developments proven Panzer right?
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Yeah pretty much, but he is also an insufferable and incompetent asshat, and he induced his shitty ideas and working ability into his team. The current devs are an offshoot of his leadership, and he certainly has some responsibility for the failure of the TNO team, and their lack of production can be blamed somewhat on Jakob.

Although, I'd like to state that TNO development could be proceeding extremely quickly and some ultra mega update could come out tomorrow from a secret spooky dev team. But, that is extremely, and entirely unlikely.
 
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Semiprofessional Sperg said:
Yeah pretty much, but he is also an insufferable and incompetent asshat, and he induced his shitty ideas and working ability into his team. The current devs are an offshoot of his leadership, and he certainly has some responsibility for the failure of the TNO team, and their lack of production can be blamed somewhat on Jakob.

Although, I'd like to state that TNO development could be proceeding extremely quickly and some ultra mega update could come out tomorrow from a secret spooky dev team. But, that is extremely, and entirely unlikely.
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Is there a secret dev team? Because otherwise I don't see how they'd ever manage to get anything done.
 
morfent said:
Have recent developments proven Panzer right?
People kept shitting on him due to his overly demanding and near exploitative leadership style, but he also got things done - nearly all of TNO got finished in just one year, and it was pretty impressive despite it's many flaws.

Pacifica and the succeeding goons may be "softer", but that just results in nothing being done. Toolbox Theory got delayed from Winter to March to an undefined future date - and by the looks of it, most of it will just be the old mechanics in a new package.

Drama can't kill TNO, but content droughts can, and the mod hasn't received a serious update for half a year now.
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Their development state is weird since their primary Toolbox Theory update is holding everything up; I would not be surprised if they start pumping out updates after that since you can always write events/other stuff and code in non-TT related mechanics like GUIs. The primary issue is probably that they can't get a scope down or fall into the common content trap of infinite reworks for Toolbox, which will kill the mod if they don't release it in, let's say, the next month or two.

Also Panzer was horrific at work management since what I've heard about TNO pre release development was horrible. They gaslighted the plebs using their LOC counter and "progress checks" when shit was barely functional if it was even there, and they ran on volunteer crunch until the release date came. (You can look through the files and see it being attributed to a few people at most, plus how buggy the launch was) I personally trust the new team more since they seem okay enough at managing their content, but they could just be jacking off in their private discord.
 
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longshot said:
Is there a secret dev team? Because otherwise I don't see how they'd ever manage to get anything done.
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The structure of the team chat is a sight to behold.
First, you got the basic team member chat rooms, which are viewable to everyone who's on the team. These include the general devchat, local chats for the patches, and so on. Now, keep in mind that low-level team member can only chat in their own local chat - it's impossible for a Russia writer to post in Turkey development, for reasons I can't imagine to be anything but a reminder of how much the lead devs distrust their low level workers.

Then, there are the role-specific circlejerks. Writers, Artists, Coders, and Mods all have their special little zones only viewable by their direct coworkers. People claim that they were established to offer a judgement-free zone to gain feedback (lol), but in practice, they did nothing but further factionalism and strengthen the discord between the three main pillars of the dev team, and the moderation team. Führerprinzip, anyone?

When people talk about "secret dev channels", they usually refer to Heydrich development, which was just an absolute trainwreck. Panzer, in his infinite wisdom, decided to keep it secret from everyone because he didn't trust his own team - but it still got leaked near instantly, as the Github discord bot kept notifying people about whatever the secret team did. This caused loads of (justified) outrage within the community, and as a result of that, the lead devs officially promised to never do that sort of thing again. However, it wouldn't be the first time they lied for no reason at all, so who knows? Maybe there still are secret dev channels out there, we'll only know once (or if) the next updates release.

What is far more insteresting are the channels exclusive to the lead developers. Team leads have their own team lead channel (which is mostly irrelevant, because tean leads do jack shit), and the lead devs also have their own lead dev channel not viewable to anyone except their own. It's pretty much the only relevant channel when it comes to deciding the future of the mod, so it being restricted to maybe 10% of the dev team is no big surprise if you know anything about it - of course, the lead devs deeply despise common team members and would never allow them to do anything but common grunt work. If you want to do any fun stuff, you better suck enough tranny dick until you're invited into the secretive circles of lead developers, otherwise you're out of luck.

There are rumors of the lead developers having their own seperate discord which I haven't been able to confirm or deny, but I think that these rumors are likely true. It would explain how multiple team members like Bamba left the official TNO discord for a week during the drama and then rejoined without much issue - it was likely because they still were in the relevant private servers and only left the public ones. Private dev servers have been banned every since the whole "shadow council" cringefest, but who gives a fuck?

Lore development channels are also lead developer only, because fuck you.

(For context, I use "lead developer" to refer to members with the "developer" role. The official name is nonsensical, since pretty much every "contributer" (coder) is also a developer per definition.)

Taker Of Piss said:
Their development state is weird since their primary Toolbox Theory update is holding everything up; I would not be surprised if they start pumping out updates after that since you can always write events/other stuff and code in non-TT related mechanics like GUIs. The primary issue is probably that they can't get a scope down or fall into the common content trap of infinite reworks for Toolbox, which will kill the mod if they don't release it in, let's say, the next month or two.

Also Panzer was horrific at work management since what I've heard about TNO pre release development was horrible. They gaslighted the plebs using their LOC counter and "progress checks" when shit was barely functional if it was even there, and they ran on volunteer crunch until the release date came. (You can look through the files and see it being attributed to a few people at most, plus how buggy the launch was) I personally trust the new team more since they seem okay enough at managing their content, but they could just be jacking off in their private discord.
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Panzer was incredibly incompetent, but he at least had the courage to put his foot down and remove team members who did literally nothing / cut content that was obviously never going to get finished. TNO wouldn't have been released at all if India and such weren't cut a few months before release, and I doubt that the current dev team would have the cojones to do the same thing.
 
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morfent said:
Panzer was incredibly incompetent, but he at least had the courage to put his foot down and remove team members who did literally nothing / cut content that was obviously never going to get finished. TNO wouldn't have been released at all if India and such weren't cut a few months before release, and I doubt that the current dev team would have the cojones to do the same thing.
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I'm guessing either you were on the team or know someone there, and if so, my condolences for spending time in that troons nest. What odds would you give on them finishing Toolbox Theory in, let's say the next 2 months? They should have learned from Panzer in regards to purging members (they didn't hesitate during that whole fiasco, why not with people who didn't fill their quotas), and they don't have to make hard decisions regarding cut content anymore. I think the delay is more on the Toolbox Theory team having to start from scratch (Freddy probably wasn't doing much) and expanding the scope, but I'm probably giving them way too much credit.
 
Taker Of Piss said:
I think the delay is more on the Toolbox Theory team having to start from scratch (Freddy probably wasn't doing much) and expanding the scope, but I'm probably giving them way too much credit.
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Didn't Fred just have some useless Soviet History degree? How did he even become a principal developer in a mechanics patch? I can understand if it's some lore stuff he maybe could be useful, somehow. But, in something that's supossed to be a MAJOR overhaul of the base game, and it's supossed to not have any lore stuff, why would a college historian be a major part of it? Like, are there not any ACTUAL programmers/coders in the TNO team? I thought in these kind of mods there were some experienced coders (if not computer scientist or programmers by degree).

I guess programmers don't like tranny dick. It's that or I can't explain how one of the most autistic professions don't join this class of stuff.

EDIT: Also consider Panzer. The dude ADMITED he didn't know anything related to coding other than writing a few lines of code.
 
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You give Panzer too much credit.
1)
Long before TNO was released there were multiple leaks and destructions of their documentation because they used Google docs and didnt bother to switch access only to approved users So as long as you got link you can go in and destroy and leak everything .

2)
He knew about Pacifica pedophilic tendencies atleast from 2018 and yet he didnt act. And He purged lot of people. Same goes for lot of Old Guard (many of them were still part of the team last time I checked) they knew and either encouraged it or look the other way.


3)
He put 14 years old (Mupper) in charge of India development team. Who was more interested in talking about sex or Soycialism with Pacifica and other adult devs.

4) Panzer approved recruits and those to be purged, proposal for country paths .
He also bitched when things didnt go as he planned.
And wrote like three unfinished documents how he imagines things are going to look like when they are Done.
And thats pretty much what he did on project.
 
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Hiteles said:
Didn't Fred just have some useless Soviet History degree?
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No he was doing (and failing) a Microbiology course before switching over in mid 2019, he never had a degree he was just a university student Fred uni 1.PNGFred uni 2.PNGFred uni 3.PNG
 
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Hiteles said:
Didn't Fred just have some useless Soviet History degree? How did he even become a principal developer in a mechanics patch? I can understand if it's some lore stuff he maybe could be useful, somehow. But, in something that's supossed to be a MAJOR overhaul of the base game, and it's supossed to not have any lore stuff, why would a college historian be a major part of it? Like, are there not any ACTUAL programmers/coders in the TNO team? I thought in these kind of mods there were some experienced coders (if not computer scientist or programmers by degree).

I guess programmers don't like tranny dick. It's that or I can't explain how one of the most autistic professions don't join this class of stuff.

EDIT: Also consider Panzer. The dude ADMITED he didn't know anything related to coding other than writing a few lines of code.
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Freddy was a writer/ideas person (of course) primarily, and I'd imagine that his involvement in Toolbox Theory was due to being Lead Dev/Glorious Chairman. Also explains why they had to wipe his work for Toolbox Theory.
 
Not only what Radola says, but, wasn't Pacifica involucred in the Shadow Council Affair in 2018? Like, Panzer could easily have said: «First strike, your shadow council shit. Second strike, your sexual conversations with minors. Third strike, you're a tranny. Get outta here». But obviously, we all know he doesn't care.


Adolf said:
No he was doing (and failing) a Microbiology course before switching over in mid 2019, he never had a degree he was just a university studentView attachment 2167896View attachment 2167897View attachment 2167898
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I thought I read here that he had some accreditation in Soviet History? I thought that's why he was so entitled and considered by others when talking about Russia Lore against the ideas and opinions of the russian NATIONALS (or, let's be honest, RU-TNO).

Btw how ironic. You can pass math but you can't pass organic chemistry. You're supposed to be microbiologist not engineer. But to be honest, probably the math he was seeing was just some basic math program for health students, so he probably wouldn't be able to pass the math courses of an engineering (and what a twist, he choses the most stereotypical career: polisci).

Taker Of Piss said:
Freddy was a writer/ideas person (of course) primarily, and I'd imagine that his involvement in Toolbox Theory was due to being Lead Dev/Glorious Chairman. Also explains why they had to wipe his work for Toolbox Theory.
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It was completely wiped off? Nothing is left of what he did?
 
Hiteles said:
Not only what Radola says, but, wasn't Pacifica involucred in the Shadow Council Affair in 2018? Like, Panzer could easily have said: «First strike, your shadow council shit. Second strike, your sexual conversations with minors. Third strike, you're a tranny. Get outta here». But obviously, we all know he doesn't care.



I thought I read here that he had some accreditation in Soviet History? I thought that's why he was so entitled and considered by others when talking about Russia Lore against the ideas and opinions of the russian NATIONALS (or, let's be honest, RU-TNO).

Btw how ironic. You can pass math but you can't pass organic chemistry. You're supposed to be microbiologist not engineer. But to be honest, probably the math he was seeing was just some basic math program for health students, so he probably wouldn't be able to pass the math courses of an engineering (and what a twist, he choses the most stereotypical career: polisci).


It was completely wiped off? Nothing is left of what he did?
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If you believe the devs, they say that they greatly expanded Toolbox's scope after an initial downsizing under Freddy (original Toolbox was super ambitious but didn't really have programming support apparently, smells like Jakob). While they can't diss their glorious Freddy, the way they've been describing Toolbox work on Discord makes it sound like the Freddy version was weak and needed plenty of work.
 
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