Plagued /r/TNOmod and the Reddit HOI4 modding community - When a subreddit for a video game mod turns to utter insanity

[Ryona420]

I cant tell if tno is a mod with a neoliberal bias or a mod with a socialist bias it seems like there are two different seperate teams pushing the mod in weird contradicting ways

A bit of both though lean more towards the latter. Panzer and Pacie have gone neo-liberal in recent years but when they were working on TNO they were socialists and commies. Panzer and I think a few others have gone on record that TNO's main points or thesis if you wanna be pretentious is that authoritarianism and especially fascism is destined to fail. They have gone on record to say America is only "good" since the Nazis and Japanese are far worse in every way. Without them like in the fabled TNO3 they are the bad guys with America being mean to the ROC and USSR.

I do feel there are some pro-American neo-liberals on the team who imo are trying to salvage it since I will outright admit I will take a neo-liberal America fuck yeah who wants to have wholesome RFK or whatever brutally kill Japs in the pacific over the socialist whose goals for the mod seem to be "You need to be scolded for actually playing the game and you need to sit back and do nothing as Socialists own those fascist Chuds!"

 

[Happy Camper]

I cant tell if tno is a mod with a neoliberal bias or a mod with a socialist bias it seems like there are two different seperate teams pushing the mod in weird contradicting ways

What @Toji Suzuhara says is correct, but it goes deeper than that. The mod was essentially hijacked after Panzer and Pacifica left. The leadership of the mod has largely gotten rid of the "old guard" or straight up unpersoned them, Panzer being the most notable case. The new devs dislike or even hate most of the old content as well as the community they inherited or at the very least act as if they do hence why they're deleting/reworking just about all of it. It's all "unrealistic", "slop" and "not up to current standards" and so on. Many of them don't even play HOI4 (current lead is a major lolcow in the "The Campaign Trail" modding community for instance) and instead think they have a mission to educate people and do it in the most overbearing and pandering ways imaginable. Panzer also did that, sure, but it was more fun and light-hearted. The way Wolfenstein is anti-Nazi but packages it in a fun with with monsters, mecha Hitlers and mega zeppelins. Where old TNO (intentionally or not) came off as a shitpost full of memes and over-the-top goofiness the current leadership wants to be taken seriously and be treated as "high art". This on of being radical neoliberals instead of schizo communists, mind you.

Like someone else said earlier in the thread: current TNO has less in common with V1.0 TNO than Kaiserredux has in common with Kaiserreich. It's virtually unrecognizable from its old self and even more so if you've kept up with any of their leaks. So if you feel like there's major tonal whiplash, there's your reason. They're essentially going through a cultural revolution.

I will outright admit I will take a neo-liberal America fuck yeah who wants to have wholesome RFK or whatever brutally kill Japs in the pacific over the socialist whose goals for the mod seem to be "You need to be scolded for actually playing the game and you need to sit back and do nothing as Socialists own those fascist Chuds!"

4chan has done deep dives on the US (and current overall) lead and he legitimately believes that America is a white supremacist country and that there's no difference between electing Yockey and electing a mainstream Democrat or Republican. If you thought you were being browbeaten and moralized too before then buckle up because you're going to get moralized to like you've never been moralized to in your entire life.

Honestly glad I stopped playing this mod several years ago at this point.

 

[Uranium Sundae]

A lot of the old TNO ex-devs, mainly Panzer and Pacifica, started out as libs that became commies. The new devs seem to be that type of progressive millenial liberals which seemingly don't know about world history past the year 1999.

The wholesum 100 Sablin and ultra-based an-com Krasnoyarsk, as well as the OG Gus Hall, come from the first group. New Gus Hall comes from the second group

Gus Hall's depiction in current TNO is really bizarre. From what I've read on the TV Tropes page, which appears to usually contain the most recent vision for the mod, they want to rehabiliate the guy as some kind of misunderstood extremist with good intentions. Wasn't the man literally the definition of an American quisling fighting for the ideology of the enemy, and his party a racket to get donations from the Soviet Union? Why pick this person to be your underdog?

 

[Toji Suzuhara]

Gus Hall's depiction in current TNO is really bizarre. From what I've read on the TV Tropes page, which appears to usually contain the most recent vision for the mod, they want to rehabiliate the guy as some kind of misunderstood extremist with good intentions. Wasn't the guy literally the definition of an American quisling fighting for the ideology of the enemy, and his party a racket to get donations from the Soviet Union? Why pick this guy to be your underdog?

A lot of new TNO devs dislike the US, maybe that's why

4chan has done deep dives on the US (and current overall) lead and he legitimately believes that America is a white supremacist country and that there's no difference between electing Yockey and electing a mainstream Democrat or Republican.

They hate americans, so they pick an american who hates americans to be their champion

 

[Ryona420]

4chan has done deep dives on the US (and current overall) lead and he legitimately believes that America is a white supremacist country and that there's no difference between electing Yockey and electing a mainstream Democrat or Republican. If you thought you were being browbeaten and moralized too before then buckle up because you're going to get moralized to like you've never been moralized to in your entire life.

I now want to know about this. Its always America leads that are not only retarded, they seem to be anti-Nationalists for their nation. Like how the lead dev for America for KR was an actual communist and its why the CSA even compared to Euro Syndies is so broken and OP and feels like fanfiction.

 

[Trollface]

TNO be like "I'M REWOOOOOOOOORKING!!!!" deletes all content

Is it really this bad? I know TNO devs spent the last 3 business years taking their due diligence reworking one nation per year instead of making new content but did they actually delete so much content for nations? I'm pretty curious!

Also apologies in advance for being off topic but I figured people should see what I deem to be even more masterpieces from the workshop page:

 

[Toji Suzuhara]

Is it really this bad? I know TNO devs spent the last 3 business years taking their due diligence reworking one nation per year instead of making new content but did they actually delete so much content for nations? I'm pretty curious!

Old UK used to have 10 years of content for the collaborators, as well as three different paths. Now it has only 4 years and 3 paths.

There's things such as Glenn (a possible US President) getting replaced by Hart, whose content is basically legally-distinct LBJ

 

[Grave Ghost]

Old UK used to have 10 years of content for the collaborators, as well as three different paths. Now it has only 4 years and 3 paths.

They also scrapped some of the cooler ideas Panzer had like it being possible for America and Japan to go to war and America could win if they took out and occupied enough of Japan's puppets.

 

[Toji Suzuhara]

They also scrapped some of the cooler ideas Panzer had like it being possible for America and Japan to go to war and America could win if they took out and occupied enough of Japan's puppets.

"An actual in-game use for the puppets you gain in the proxy wars? It can't be!"
-The TNO Dev Team

 

[EpicGamerMoment]

I cant tell if tno is a mod with a neoliberal bias or a mod with a socialist bias it seems like there are two different seperate teams pushing the mod in weird contradicting ways

There are two different types of TNO dev: The Ultra-Lib and The Commie

The Ultra-Lib effect can be seen in the Fascist/European countries of TNO: The people always want liberalization, Liberalization is the objectively good path, Free Market reforms without fail always bring prosperity, and the only possible downside is you didn’t repress/get rid of the Fascist remnants fast enough to cement the new regime.

The Commies have instead worked on the USA and some Russian warlords. Leftism is the end all be all solution to your countries woes, especially racism. Racism and the rights of minorities should be your #1 concern or you’re literally Hitler. America electing a Commie president will suddenly make everyone love black people and will cure all societal ills. Gus Hall completely gutting the CIA and FBI in the middle of a cold war is actually good because they heckin’ oppressed leftists or something.

 

[GoodWinSon]

Here's Hall's section in the votepig proposal. It's cut off here but he has his own unique "apple pie communism" ideology

The proposals for Nixon and Reagan are even worse.

 

[General Emílio Médici]

Is it really this bad?

Yes it is. They have gone back and deleted almost all content the game shipped with and are working on deleting even more.

 

[Happy Camper]

Yes it is. They have gone back and deleted almost all content the game shipped with and are working on deleting even more.

And to top it all off nearly all new/replacement content (what little there is) either got stuck in dev/rework hell or frankly ended up being atrocious. I say this a lot but this AAR by one of our regulars is a good summary of what the new content is like and I highly recommend that @Trollface reads it. If you ever feel like playing the mod again that should scare you away from it. Hold out hope for a Redux and play something else until that happens, assuming it ever does.

 

[Ryona420]

Gus Hall's depiction in current TNO is really bizarre. From what I've read on the TV Tropes page, which appears to usually contain the most recent vision for the mod, they want to rehabiliate the guy as some kind of misunderstood extremist with good intentions. Wasn't the man literally the definition of an American quisling fighting for the ideology of the enemy, and his party a racket to get donations from the Soviet Union? Why pick this person to be your underdog?

The Commies have instead worked on the USA and some Russian warlords. Leftism is the end all be all solution to your countries woes, especially racism. Racism and the rights of minorities should be your #1 concern or you’re literally Hitler. America electing a Commie president will suddenly make everyone love black people and will cure all societal ills. Gus Hall completely gutting the CIA and FBI in the middle of a cold war is actually good because they heckin’ oppressed leftists or something.

Here's Hall's section in the votepig proposal. It's cut off here but he has his own unique "apple pie communism" ideology

Say what you will about Panzer but even with his strange Mao larp and PNGtuber persona he was vomitted to at least being against auth com. He was still a simp for leftcoms but he made it VERY clear that Gus Hall was as bad as Yockey and it showed American society was so far gone that an extremist got into power. Even having Gus Hall do a Lavender Scare I liked since a lot of unironic fags need to be told that their so called heroes would despise them and see them as gross perverts.

CPUSA and others far-left movements ONLY became pro-fag after two decades worth of liberal pushing in the 70s and 80s made it okay in the 90s to have. And even then a lot of these same parties when asked about their previous record basically told their fags to cope and mald about it.

The reason I bring this up is this faggotry part is directly why he got re-worked. As the Devs outright stated that it made a lot of the LGBTroon upset about Gus Hall's depiction since they expected communist America to give them equal rights. Way back now but we talked about this when Gus Hall was first getting re-worked and they try super hard to make him seem like the racist uncle you have at Thanksgiving but leftist instead.

This is not the case. Even for the time he was unusually horrible. Gus Hall would take money meant for his own party and use it for himself and his horse ranches. So the money did not even go to the fucking CPUSA. He supported whole heartedly the crushing of the Hungarian Revolution of 56, which even other communists not in the Warsaw pact saw as blatant imperialism. In no universe is he a good guy who even helps leftism. Apple Pie communism is more associated with Browder who ironically Gus Hall replaced when Browder was too Stalinist.

 

[GoodWinSon]

Say what you will about Panzer but even with his strange Mao larp and PNGtuber persona he was vomitted to at least being against auth com. He was still a simp for leftcoms but he made it VERY clear that Gus Hall was as bad as Yockey and it showed American society was so far gone that an extremist got into power. Even having Gus Hall do a Lavender Scare I liked since a lot of unironic fags need to be told that their so called heroes would despise them and see them as gross perverts.

Ironically, relatively moderate individuals getting pushed out by extremists happens a lot in actual communist parties. In any case, PinkPansy definitely bought into different memes then the current set of "devs". He used to trumpet on discord how he was a member of the US military and how Halo convinced him to enlist. He took TNO too seriously and attracted the cancer currently plaguing the mod. The mod was always boring, but now its never going to get better.

Also I read somewhere that Panzer decided to troon out. Is that true?

 

[Ryona420]

Also I read somewhere that Panzer decided to troon out. Is that true?

Yes, even on the thing that I had linked before hoe goes by "LonelyKnightess" Since his reddit account and many other accounts used to be called a Lonely Hedge Knight.

Ironically, relatively moderate individuals getting pushed out by extremists happens a lot in actual communist parties. In any case, PinkPansy definitely bought into different memes then the current set of "devs". He used to trumpet on discord how he was a member of the US military and how Halo convinced him to enlist. He took TNO too seriously and attracted the cancer currently plaguing the mod. The mod was always boring, but now its never going to get better.

This does not surprise me. A vast amount of leftists cannot distinguish fiction and reality. Its why they moral fag a lot and why TNO-fags are really sneedy on you liking their authoritarian paths. When you play as Tabby they don't think you are doing it since you want to see a wild and crazy path. They think you must agree with him and his views. Same way Panzer was able to be baited by playing Halo

 

[Trollface]

Old UK used to have 10 years of content for the collaborators, as well as three different paths. Now it has only 4 years and 3 paths.

There's things such as Glenn (a possible US President) getting replaced by Hart, whose content is basically legally-distinct LBJ

Holy shit. I knew UK content was just meh but to truncate it with actual mediocrity? Also rest in peace Glenn. I never played your path but it sure was fun seeing the Mars superevent.

And to top it all off nearly all new/replacement content (what little there is) either got stuck in dev/rework hell or frankly ended up being atrocious. I say this a lot but this AAR by one of our regulars is a good summary of what the new content is like and I highly recommend that @Trollface reads it. If you ever feel like playing the mod again that should scare you away from it. Hold out hope for a Redux and play something else until that happens, assuming it ever does.

We are one step away from TNO being like that fake Denmark UI leak. Actually probably way past that already a long time ago

God forbid I'd rather play another "rewooorking" mod like TWR over TNO any day at least they still know how to keep many of their entertaining paths.

 

[Ryona420]

Holy shit. I knew UK content was just meh but to truncate it with actual mediocrity? Also rest in peace Glenn. I never played your path but it sure was fun seeing the Mars superevent.


We are one step away from TNO being like that fake Denmark UI leak. Actually probably way past that already a long time ago

God forbid I'd rather play another "rewooorking" mod like TWR over TNO any day at least they still know how to keep many of their entertaining paths.

Its strange since as of now you can in the game rules set it to have the old British content on. This seems like a good compromise no? Well they say they will remove it once all TFL content for England is released. Making it all pointless on why they made the effort to keep it but also its oddly sneedy. At the very least they could split the difference with fans by allowing old TNO to be made via game rules. At this point this is like Lucas SW prequels vs Disney Sequels. Yeah we all shit on Panzer and his TNO when it first came out but I don't think we realize how much we were missing. It almost feels like new TNO is trying to make Panzer's writing seem like geniuses the same way Kathleen Kennedy made some people appreciate the prequels more.

 

[Irish Turtle]

Holy shit. I knew UK content was just meh but to truncate it with actual mediocrity? Also rest in peace Glenn. I never played your path but it sure was fun seeing the Mars superevent.


We are one step away from TNO being like that fake Denmark UI leak. Actually probably way past that already a long time ago

God forbid I'd rather play another "rewooorking" mod like TWR over TNO any day at least they still know how to keep many of their entertaining paths.

tno is losing content faster than its gaining new content

 

[Happy Camper]

At this point this is like Lucas SW prequels vs Disney Sequels.

Worse. It's more like a soulless reboot where the company that does it also forcibly stops all old digital copies from working. The way they've gone out of their way to erase the mod's legacy and alienate their old fanbase is unprecedented in media history.

It almost feels like new TNO is trying to make Panzer's writing seem like geniuses the same way Kathleen Kennedy made some people appreciate the prequels more.

They sure have gotten most old critics of Panzer to give his work a second chance for the better so I think you hit the nail on the head here.