Plagued /r/TNOmod and the Reddit HOI4 modding community - When a subreddit for a video game mod turns to utter insanity

[Lizard Machine Bugs]

Right.

I guess I could talk about the absolute shadow the hedgehog-edge tier content they had in the mod than quietly removed. Such as the entirety of the India.
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So one of the paths they cut was where Lord Mountbatten rises up in the Indian anarchy (if their civil war goes on too long), proceeds to lead his force of literal cannibal Anglos to reconquer India.

I'll just quote the direct event file localizations:





This is why I can't really take the dev's call for sanity seriously when can you dig into the files and find constant events like this.

Now this is a white devil i could get behind.

 

[Ghost of Wesley Willis]

HOI4 meme maps is pretty much sonic fetish porn for 14 year olds with masturbatory irredentist fantasies.

 

[Agarathium1066]

This video itself is a bit autistic, but goes over some good points.

I was going to post this in the YT comments thread until I noticed this thread.

Look who decided to show up:

As simple as the video was it looks like it struck hard enough to get Panzer and a small cloud of sycophants riled up enough to run in playing defense. Which is amusing since it ends with saying the mod is enjoyable but not worthy of being taken serious. If someone put in a deep dive video really tearing into it further than a few easy shots paired with wojaks, Panzer will likely come skittering to shit-talk.

Here's hoping someone does.

 

[DumbDude42]

Heinrich Himmler fabricating a more radical version of National Socialism and converting eastern France and Belgium into a Meganazi North Korea? Hilarious.

himmler actually had plans to do something like that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order-State_of_Burgundy

it never left the drawing board cause apparently nobody except himmler himself (who was a massive lunatic in many ways) took it seriously, but nevertheless it was an actual idea that existed in history, not something these autism modders came up with out of the blue

 

[Kanuckski]

Pinkpanzer is a very odd person who did an Interview (Archive) for an equally strange website back in July. Website constantly shouts about Western political instability and shit talks America and Canada especially hard. While consistently white knighting the CCP on everything they do. There can be no doubt Panzer's interview is being used to continue to sell that narrative. The interview itself covers plenty of things already mentioned in the thread, just from Panzer's perspective. It still has some interesting tidbits though. Which I'll post since the interview overall isn't really that interesting.

Panzer on inspiration for the insertion of political messaging into the mod

At first, I wanted to adapt the Facepunch Roleplay into a Victoria 2 mod, but as I went forward with the project, I started to inject my own beliefs on politics and the history of the world into the mod. I think perhaps the biggest kicker influencing the themes of the mod is that I got sick of seeing people idealize Nazi Germany so much in the media, and I was starved of media criticizing and scrutinizing the policies of Nazi Germany. Outside examinations of the holocaust, media focused on the Nazi period often finds a way to paint an idealized image of Nazism, which I find really off. The media does not necessarily idealize Nazi ideology as much as repeat very common talking points and myths from the Nazis themselves, or perpetuate ideas glamourizing the Nazi side of the war. Movies made focusing on the Western Front, and even movies about the eastern front if made in the West, will downplay Nazi war crimes unless they are explicitly focusing on the holocaust.

We can look at Man in the High Castle, which furthers mistaken beliefs about Nazi technological beliefs and Nazi efficiency despite explicity having an anti-Nazi message. And I think this is just as harmful as outright stating Nazi beliefs, especially since Nazi idealization is an easy dog-whistle for Neo-Nazis to get people on their side. They don’t really get people on their side by saying “Jews are bad”. Rather, they convince people by saying “those Nazi war machines are super cool” and “not all Nazi soldiers believe in Nazi ideology” and from there instill more toxic beliefs down the line.

You also see this view in school curriculum . The popular consensus in western historiography whitewashes the Wehrmacht as ordinary people just doing their jobs in fighting communism, and the media just reinforces it. The root of all this all starts right after World War II because we let Nazi veterans rewrite the history of the war in their vision, that’s what happened.

Panzer on how his mod attempts to oppose what they believe is Nazi glorification by the media.

We try to challenge this narrative by presenting the Nazis in the most realistic, yet also the most pathetic way possible. The Nazis may have achieved their key war goals in this alternate reality, but the second their socioeconomic system runs into problems, it collapses on itself. We go out of our way to not show Nazis as this group of super-efficient diabolical geniuses, but as individuals believing in and furthering a toxic ideology.

Another key theme of TNO is that the system of Nazi Germany is one that is allowing and further enabling the perpertuation of evil. TNO goes out of it’s way to show that there’s nothing interesting about the Nazi system, that these atrocities are committed by the incredibly mundane and built by an explicitly evil system that cannot continue. I feel this is an interesting and unique way of looking at this in contrast to what is generally done in other media.

Something yet to be mentioned in that the mod also tries really hard to criticize the actions of real world America throughout history post-WW2.

And we do not attack simply the evil within the Nazi system, but we also attack the Imperial Japanese, as well as the American government in it’s own way. While in my mind the American government is not as bad as the Nazis and the Imperial Japanese, we examine its own problems as well.

Panzer when asked why they believe America could have been the world wide villain; had it not been for the Nazis and Imperial Japanese taking it upon themselves to exist.

So I grew up extremely patriotic and I should note that the portrayal of America in this mod is not coming from a place of extreme anti-Americanism, and I do believe that there is a use to the military despite being a leftist. With that said, it is pretty easy to look through a history book and understand that the United States have done extremely questionable things, particular in Latin America and throughout the Cold War.


Almost everything America does in TNO through it’s foreign policy is based on something it did in the real world that could be seen as extremely villainous. The Nazis are presented as abusing their political power and twisting the world in their image, but we should not whitewash the US as somehow innocent in doing the same things.

Pinkpanzer claiming that TNO singular superpower AmeriKKKa wouldn't make a difference after the fall of the Nazis and Imperial Japan. As well as that their canon, the U.S.A will be the bad guy confronted by the USSR and a Communist China that kept on getting butt fucked by Japan instead of Mao.

Regarding themes, the entire point of the third decade is that the Nazis are defeated, the Imperial Japanese are defeated. The US basically gets the best possible ending, with the Organization of Free Nations controlling all parts of the globe except a resurgent China and the Soviet Union. But, nothing really improves; the only difference being that now it is the Americans, not the Nazis or the Japanese, that are calling the shots. You got rid of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan but none of the underlying issues have been solved; it is as if the victory of the Nazis in this reality’s Second World War corrupted the timeline. Millions and millions of people are still living under racist and violent regimes, most of the world is still poor, people are still oppressed, and the world is on the verge of a war between these three massive powers: China, the USSR and America, while America’s dirty laundry is visible for everyone else. It becomes very obvious that America may not be the good guys when pitted against enemies that are not necessarily malicious on their own, and if you look critically, it can be argued that the US is the villain going into the final act.

An example of Panzer's belief in Francis Fukuyama's theory of Democracy as the only way. Since that's mentioned in the video posted earlier.

What we are trying to show with the reformists is that the only way Germany and Italy, which is also falling apart at the seams, can survive is if they abandon Fascism completely.

A little bit of a bonus, PP on Breadtube. This was after being told by the interviewer that they themselves believe it's not really far left and has played a key role in moving people away from the alt-right. Whatever the fuck they define alt-right as, since it's used in any reference to right-wing people and politics.

I am very much a fan of Breadtube, I actually asked Vaush for advice at one point during the development of TNO. I remember when Youtube first became a thing, I remember gamergate and the rise of the alt-right. There was a long period before Breadtube where Neo-Nazis had free rein over the internet to radicalize millions of people. I am hoping that any group that attempts to counters that continues to be successful and thankfully I think we are watching Breadtube win out because their worldviews through the power of saything things that remotely make sense when compared to the alt-right.

To save everybody a lot of time writing their own walls of text on why the American political commentary is retarded, this guy already did it for you.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

This video itself is a bit autistic, but goes over some good points.

I was going to post this in the YT comments thread until I noticed this thread.

Look who decided to show up:

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It just goes on and on.

In spite of it running on my computer like sludge, I do enjoy the mod. It works much better when you consider it a dark comedy setting with the way it's written and presented. Heinrich Himmler fabricating a more radical version of National Socialism and converting eastern France and Belgium into a Meganazi North Korea? Hilarious. How could you not find that funny? The aesthetics are nice too. The tryhard dipshits who get mad at you for not taking it seriously are massive faggots.

Pope guy's video has its own issues. Saying the modern government of the PRC is operating under the same principles as Nazism is wrong; he seems to think that all dictatorships are the same. In reality the PRC has a rigidly centralised government structure where ministers are organised to handle specific affairs, whereas the Nazi government was full of fairly autonomous ministers pursuing whatever projects they wanted, like the post office having its own nuclear weapons project, Canaris secretly plotting to overthrow Hitler, and all the assorted nonsense Himmler (who was basically a horrorcow IRL, not a scheming mastermind) was involved in. It doesn't take a genius to realise that the Nazi government model wasn't very sustainable and would eventually come to grief without condemning all dictatorships in the process. The Russian Federation has already significantly outlived Nazi Germany, for example.

The key to dictatorships surviving is pragmatism. We have the PRC around today because after Mao died they went with Dengist reformers rather than Mao Jr. Nazis were not very pragmatic; we see this from the fact they declared war on the USSR and then the USA within a few months. This would be their real failure.

Imperial Japan had similar problems, from the fact the army and navy had separate ministries and refused to cooperate to the fact they declared war on the USA which had a GDP an order of magnitude higher.

Franco notably survived the war because he managed to stay out of it and build a support base with the Catholic church and rural Spanish landowners. By the end of his life he had reconciled with the USA and was largely retired with his ministers running the country. This is what surviving fascism would look like; pragmatic, not trying to take over the world, and not letting Himmler near any nuclear weapons.

Pinkpanzer is a very odd person who did an Interview (Archive) for an equally strange website back in July. Website constantly shouts about Western political instability and shit talks America and Canada especially hard. While consistently white knighting the CCP on everything they do. There can be no doubt Panzer's interview is being used to continue to sell that narrative. The interview itself covers plenty of things already mentioned in the thread, just from Panzer's perspective. It still has some interesting tidbits though. Which I'll post since the interview overall isn't really that interesting.

Panzer on inspiration for the insertion of political messaging into the mod







Panzer on how his mod attempts to oppose what they believe is Nazi glorification by the media.



Something yet to be mentioned in that the mod also tries really hard to criticize the actions of real world America throughout history post-WW2.



Panzer when asked why they believe America could have been the world wide villain; had it not been for the Nazis and Imperial Japanese taking it upon themselves to exist.



Pinkpanzer claiming that TNO singular superpower AmeriKKKa wouldn't make a difference after the fall of the Nazis and Imperial Japan. As well as that their canon, the U.S.A will be the bad guy confronted by the USSR and a Communist China that kept on getting butt fucked by Japan instead of Mao.



An example of Panzer's belief in Francis Fukuyama's theory of Democracy as the only way. Since that's mentioned in the video posted earlier.



A little bit of a bonus, PP on Breadtube. This was after being told by the interviewer that they themselves believe it's not really far left and has played a key role in moving people away from the alt-right. Whatever the fuck they define alt-right as, since it's used in any reference to right-wing people and politics.



To save everybody a lot of time writing their own walls of text on why the American political commentary is retarded, this guy already did it for you.

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I really, really wish someone would ask Zabrowski if he agrees with Vaush's child porn stance.

 

[Pax Europaea]

I personally enjoy the mod, and the writing, really don't understand the hate that people are giving the developers. Criticise the content, don't criticise the volunteers.

I really, really wish someone would ask Zabrowski if he agrees with Vaush's child porn stance.

One way to prove how little you know about something if you're bringing up this point. This is for a different thread though.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

I personally enjoy the mod, and the writing, really don't understand the hate that people are giving the developers. Criticise the content, don't criticise the volunteers.


One way to prove how little you know about something if you're bringing up this point. This is for a different thread though.

I know that Vaush "only" defended child porn in the context of saying that using goods mined by forced labour was also unethical. That still doesn't make those comments reasonable.

 

[Pax Europaea]

I know that Vaush "only" defended child porn in the context of saying that using goods mined by forced labour was also unethical. That still doesn't make those comments reasonable.

Dissecting and entirely missing the point. It's fine.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

Dissecting and entirely missing the point. It's fine.

It's always the people with furry avatars.

 

[Kanuckski]

I personally enjoy the mod, and the writing, really don't understand the hate that people are giving the developers. Criticise the content, don't criticise the volunteers.


One way to prove how little you know about something if you're bringing up this point. This is for a different thread though.

It's almost exclusively Panzer that makes the mod worth laughing at in all honesty. There's an extreme amount of passion that's been used it to create what is probably the highest effort and highest quality HOI 4 mod yet. I say that with full sincerity and not as some snark about the state of HOI modding. What's funny about that is that the passion came in part from the creator's poltisperg's desire to use the mod as a platform send a political message; one that a lot of its community doesn't get, care about, or doesn't even acknowledge. Because they wanna go back to talking about wholesome Speer Hoodies and wearing Burgundian Crocs in Himmler's Gamer Utopia. Dissecting why someone's alt-history story poorly reflects what actually would happen is amusing for five minutes. Dissecting that becomes hilarious for much longer when it's trying to send a serious message. Especially when they're giving out interviews to a website that actively defends China's treatment of Uyghurs and says that you've fallen for the US/NATO Empire and settler colonialist Canada, genocider of Aboriginal Nations Gay-Ops (Archive) if you think China is bad. The devs are just following orders (or not). I'm sure you've also noticed outside of some posts about the dev's somewhat understandable moral fagging and slamming the retarded ass community, nobody is shit talking the other devs. Panzer is where the laughs are at. Not the dev team as a whole and the thread largely reflects that.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

It's almost exclusively Panzer that makes the mod worth laughing at in all honesty. There's an extreme amount of passion that's been used it to create what is probably the highest effort and highest quality HOI 4 mod yet. I say that with full sincerity and not as some snark about the state of HOI modding. What's funny about that is that the passion came in part from the creator's poltisperg's desire to use the mod as a platform send a political message; one that a lot of its community doesn't get, care about, or doesn't even acknowledge. Because they wanna go back to talking about wholesome Speer Hoodies and wearing Burgundian Crocs in Himmler's Gamer Utopia. Dissecting why someone's alt-history story poorly reflects what actually would happen is amusing for five minutes. Dissecting that becomes hilarious for much longer when it's trying to send a serious message. Especially when they're giving out interviews to a website that actively defends China's treatment of Uyghurs and says that you've fallen for the US/NATO Empire and settler colonialist Canada, genocider of Aboriginal Nations Gay-Ops. if you think China is bad. The devs are just following orders (or not). I'm sure you've also noticed Outside of some posts about the dev's somewhat understandable moral fagging and slamming the retarded ass community, nobody is shit talking the other devs. Panzer is where the laughs are at. Not the dev team as a whole and the thread largely reflects that. View attachment 1764331

The reason why people are saying the story doesn't make sense is because Zabrowski took it so seriously (although I think the bizarre fandom for war criminals is lolcowish in itself). He has now left the project, so any further lolcow adventures involving him will be outside this community; it will be interesting to see if he turns into a full-blown politicow himself.

 

[Eris!]

I'd wear an Albert Speer hoodie, where do i cop one?

 

[Pointless Pedant]

I'd wear an Albert Speer hoodie, where do i cop one?

I think the Speer hoodie was custom designed by the sperg who bought it.

 

[Eris!]

I think the Speer hoodie was custom designed by the sperg who bought it.

Only cringy thing about it is the forced meme text

 

[Pointless Pedant]

Presented without comment.

 

[Fuck Y'all]

autismos just broke Pacifica

fanfic in question

 

[Samson Pumpkin Jr.]

I've heard that paradox purges right wing mods, but have there been good examples? Like, a mod which replaces every word with nigger is gonna get banned, but I'm talking about fully developed mods like TNO. Where are the nazi hubs for hoi4 modding?

to centrists who overdose on smug and proceed to purge everyone they personally consider an extremist (to the point they start trying to secretly bait out crypto-extremists in their discords/reddit page/etc).

wait, what? tell me more

Sad. I play a game with Chinese in it because I am Chinese. Cold War Expanded is the greatest mod for any PDOX game hands down, you cannot change my mind

the cold war mod is shit. the most pressing criticism I have is that they fucked up the ideology system. The reason the ideologies in base vic2 work so well is because everyone serves a purpose. reactionaries roll back reforms, socialists want social reforms, liberals want political reforms, conservatives are cucks (lol). what the fuck reforms do social liberals want (in the context of vic2)?
aside from that, there are other places where the mod fails. also note the fact the mod creator is far left like the rest of these hoi4 loons

 

[ConfederateIrishman]

I've heard that paradox purges right wing mods, but have there been good examples? Like, a mod which replaces every word with nigger is gonna get banned, but I'm talking about fully developed mods like TNO. Where are the nazi hubs for hoi4 modding?

wait, what? tell me more

the cold war mod is shit. the most pressing criticism I have is that they fucked up the ideology system. The reason the ideologies in base vic2 work so well is because everyone serves a purpose. reactionaries roll back reforms, socialists want social reforms, liberals want political reforms, conservatives are cucks (lol). what the fuck reforms do social liberals want (in the context of vic2)?
aside from that, there are other places where the mod fails. also note the fact the mod creator is far left like the rest of these hoi4 loons

Ah yes, the centrist mod; It was called Calm Before The Storm and fell into deep drama when they revealed both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union would have permenent debuffs because their economies are inherintly inferior to liberal Capitalism.

What caused such drama is the devs were libertarians who said this mod would be Vanilla plus and that these changes were making it more historically accurate. They bragged about how the player was hard-coded to lose hours in as Nazi Germany as a trap path, and recommended people try out their social democrat Germany path.

When the mod itself came out it was still unfinished and since it killed it's own hype on reddit very few people noticed it; For example, you spend 5-6 hours going from 1933 to 1936 as Japan to find out those half-finished unlocalized events were the only content they included for Japan so far.

 

[DJ Grelle]

I've heard that paradox purges right wing mods, but have there been good examples? Like, a mod which replaces every word with nigger is gonna get banned, but I'm talking about fully developed mods like TNO. Where are the nazi hubs for hoi4 modding?

There are two major types of right wing modders. One is the extreme chauvinist who adds a new tree for his own country with all chauvinist over powered ness it would imply. Nothing more than a right wing power fantasy.
The second type makes far more balanced mods you wouldnt describe as right wing. OG kaiserreich for hoi2, and kaiserreich for hoi4 before it was taken over by commies. One of the modern day mods for hoi4 as well.
But that all pales in comparison to left wing modding. Weirdly enough, left wingers have enough time and manpower to execute major overhauls to video games. One advantage of being either a high school student or a jobless basement dweller.

re; representation about nazism
my drunk mind read it somewhere in the thread but im too lazy to scroll up. Nazism is often seen as this static thing but the nazism of 1923, 1933, 1939 and 1944 all differ immensly. It might not seem that way because the upper echelons formed a rather singular front, but '44 nazism would be unrecognizable to '23 nazis. This is true for all aspects of nazi doctrine, it was all in flux during the prequel and their 12 years. Any decent alt history would spend a decent chunk of time on post war crystallization of doctrine. None do this, because they all are built on the same hitler-is-satan-of-modern-times fallacy. Modern world is built on "not being hitler" so much that you cant really be nuance unless you're an autist historian fuck history it is totally useless t. drunk university master in history or literally have 0 stake in it I would say be like the dalai lama but he was buddy buddy with serrano so he has a massive stake in it Modern neo-nazism and neo-fascism has further built upon their doctrine and there has been a slow crystallization into what is today the ironmarch school of fascism. Which would be unrecognizable by most '23 nazis and only a few inner circle hardliners from '44 would recognize themselves in it.

so yeah
tl;dr: many see nazism like communism but different. this is wrong, communism had multiple internationales and decades to crystallize a coherent doctrine. a victorious nazi germany would work out the contradictions in their doctrine first before anything else.
also I have conquered half a bottle of bacardi
yey me