US Rabbi challenges abortion ban on religious grounds

Article (Archive)

While the U.S. Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade sparked widespread protests in New York, around the country, and even abroad, Rabbi Barry Silver, a lawyer and the spiritual leader of Congregation L'Dor Ava-Dor in Florida, started preparing a lawsuit to challenge the resulting Florida anti-abortion law. At the heart of his claim is that certain Supreme Court justices are using religion to dictate how all Americans should live their lives.

"A lot of people are getting kind of tired of some self-righteous, arrogant people thinking they can dictate morality to everybody else," the rabbi told FOX 5 News. "It is outrageous. It is wrong. And there's a legal term for it -- it's called 'chutzpah.'"

Silver said the goal of the lawsuit is the show the Supreme Court is dismantling the separation between church and state.

"If you practice Judaism in Florida, you are now a criminal. If I were to tell someone that according to Jewish law, you have an obligation to protect yourself and have an abortion," Silver said. "If she has it, I get arrested and tossed in jail. I'm now a criminal for practicing Judaism."

Legal experts say at least three of the Supreme Court justices testified at their own confirmation hearings that Roe v. Wade was settled law and that they would not touch it. Yet the new justices moved quickly to do exactly that, prompting calls for their impeachment.

Experts also say that this lawsuit could mean the Supreme Court is headed for a legal checkmate — if God gets to decide a woman's rights, then whose god gets to decide it?

 

[PC78]

Oh, he's one of those liberal Jews not an actual believing Jew. Like some posters have posted, he seems to be the equivalent of those really liberal denominations in Christianity.

 

[Übertroon]

Federal judges, and Supreme Court justices, by tradition going back to 1793, do not issue 'advisory opinions' or commit to how they would rule on a particular case before it appears before them as an actual dispute.

Sworn testimony cannot bind any party to act or refrain in any specific way once the proceeding is closed.

Not to mention they never swore not to repeal it. During their hearings they were asked a yes or no question, and they answered "maybe..."
If someone avoids saying yes or no it means they're protecting their ass

 

[Internet War Criminal]

, despite doing this daily

Who knew that the goatfucker was a zionist agent all along, with the goals of making them look more based than they are.

 

[Jimjamflimflam]

"A lot of people are getting kind of tired of some self-righteous, arrogant people thinking they can dictate morality to everybody else,"

You don't say, Rabbi....

 

[BelUwUga]

I'm really tired of fake reform Jews portraying themselves as actual believers in god rather than cultists of the Democratic party. Just put a gold donkey in your fake gay "diverse" synagogues.

Neat. I'm tired of Jews pretending to be white people just long enough to incite a shitload of hate. Then, once sentiment turns "I'm not white, I'm Jewish!"

 

[named]

That's one of the things I've always found funny about the Jewish dogma. At the same time they proclaim to believe in God's omnipotence, they also believe he's easily tricked.

It's a bit more complicated than that - they believe God is omniscient and omnipotent, so therefore any loophole He left in the Law must be there intentionally and using it follows His will.

 

[Blake Chortles]

What if I told you from a Christian perspective Jews have been extinct since 70ad and what you see today is just larping like nordic pagans with no understanding of why they were to do those things?

As for the legalistic loopholes. God cares an awful lot more about why you are doing something. Are you tying a wire around nyc to be obedient or to ruleslawyer God?

 

[FILTH Tourist]

It's a bit more complicated than that - they believe God is omniscient and omnipotent, so therefore any loophole He left in the Law must be there intentionally and using it follows His will.

But that assumes we are able to completely understand God's law in the first place. Humans are fallible creatures and all of our knowlage of religion are recorded by human hands. It is pretty ballsy to assume that any loophole is God's design rather than human error in understanding.

 

[Cpl. Long Dong Silver]

Next time is should be at least six million. They deserve it.

 

[Standardized Profile]

Saying God himself can pardon your sins makes some level of sense. Saying you can get rid of you sins via slaughtering a chickens you waved over your head is... strange.

Prior to the Reformation, Christian were much closer to chicken-waving. It was a very material, very manual faith, drenched in holy water and oil, eating and drinking the Body and Blood of Christ (or watching someone else do it), elevating, crossing, kissing, pilgrimages, venerating relics, indulgences, mortification of the flesh, fasting, etc. The idea that God just does something and all you have to do is say "hey thanks," maybe act out some purely symbolic ritual, is a fairly new one.

 

[OrangeJuliusEvola]

It's a bit more complicated than that - they believe God is omniscient and omnipotent, so therefore any loophole He left in the Law must be there intentionally and using it follows His will.

It really makes one wish that the Karaites instead of the Talmudists won the "We are the real Jews!" fight back in the 700s-800s. A religion founded on dicking over your deity with loopholes in the covenant he gave you is bound to create a people with sociopathic tendencies towards everyone and everything. Of course, sneaky fuckers tend to survive like cockroaches. Guys who follow rules get smooshed.

 

[Diana Moon Glampers]

That's insane, Florida's law is 15 weeks for elective abortions and any time if mom's life is in danger, and traditional Jewish law always used "quickening" (feeling first kicks) as the dividing line for "it's cool with God" abortions and only made exceptions for when the mom's life is in danger. Quickening happens right around...week 15.

Florida may be the closest state to traditional Jewish law of any state in the US, what's this clown's problem?

 

[Catch The Rainbow]

It really makes one wish that the Karaites instead of the Talmudists won the "We are the real Jews!" fight back in the 700s-800s. A religion founded on dicking over your deity with loopholes in the covenant he gave you is bound to create a people with sociopathic tendencies towards everyone and everything. Of course, sneaky fuckers tend to survive like cockroaches. Guys who follow rules get smooshed.

What are you talking about lol, Karaites are sociopathic as fuck. They do not have any laws allowing them to break the rules to save a life. They will and have allowed people to die painfully on shabbat when they could have been saved because they believe that the law can't be broken in any circumstances. If Judaism was really about dicking over God, why do Jews not use electricity on Shabbat?

 

[OrangeJuliusEvola]

What are you talking about lol, Karaites are sociopathic as fuck. They do not have any laws allowing them to break the rules to save a life. They will and have allowed people to die painfully on shabbat when they could have been saved because they believe that the law can't be broken in any circumstances. If Judaism was really about dicking over God, why do Jews not use electricity on Shabbat?

Man, you guys really go apeshit when someone opposed to you all has actually read up and studied on the subject rather than repeat brain dead tropes from the Protocols. Good to see Saadia Gaon's lies live on to this day.

Anyways, the vast majority of you guys do use electricity on Shabbat. There's literally records of people arguing on whether timers and automatic sensors are allowable in Orthodoxy, and I don't even need to mention what was argued for and justified before timers and sensors were widely available.

 

[Local FloRida-man]

Prior to the Reformation, Christian were much closer to chicken-waving. It was a very material, very manual faith, drenched in holy water and oil, eating and drinking the Body and Blood of Christ (or watching someone else do it), elevating, crossing, kissing, pilgrimages, venerating relics, indulgences, mortification of the flesh, fasting, etc. The idea that God just does something and all you have to do is say "hey thanks," maybe act out some purely symbolic ritual, is a fairly new one.

I actually have little issue with the ritualistic nature of it. When I read about ancient pagans sacrificing animals to their gods for boons I also see the sense in that: they respect their gods, the gods require offering, they offer something up to them out of respect.

It's more the meaning behind it. The idea that you can circumvent your responsibility to God via an animal stand in, instead of through atonement and His forgiveness that I find strange. If there's text saying it's a decree from Him as an approved form of repentance/cleansing then never mind, but as is I just find it odd.

 

[Psyduck]

Theyre called Hasidic??

Hasidim but i don' believe em

Hehe

 

[Catch The Rainbow]

Man, you guys really go apeshit when someone opposed to you all has actually read up and studied on the subject rather than repeat brain dead tropes from the Protocols. Good to see Saadia Gaon's lies live on to this day.

Anyways, the vast majority of you guys do use electricity on Shabbat. There's literally records of people arguing on whether timers and automatic sensors are allowable in Orthodoxy, and I don't even need to mention what was argued for and justified before timers and sensors were widely available.

You misunderstood my question. If Judaism is about avoiding God's rules, why would Talmudic Jews forbid electricity on shabbat? The two main arguments is that it creates a fire and that it counts as building because you're completing a circuit. Both of these arguments are easily disproven. The first with electricity not being fire and that the heat generated from applying a current across a filament is actually halachically kosher because you're allowed to heat up metal on Shabbat. The second argument is disproven with the fact that closing an electric circuit is not building in the same way that closing a door is not building a wall. There's plenty of arguments that the Talmudic Jews could use in order to permit themselves to use electricity on shabbat beyond simple timers and automatic sensors but they do not use these arguments. What I'm asking is why is that the talmudists who "use loopholes to violate god's laws" somehow decided to cause themselves a great inconvenience by not using electricity on shabbat despite there being plenty of reasons to create a loophole and allow it?

I reject your example of timers on shabbat and such as a form of electricity usage that would be considered a prohibition of shabbat because the usage of a fire that was created before shabbat is supported with multiple sources and is consistent with the Orthodox position that electricity is fire.

 

[⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛]

You misunderstood my question. If Judaism is about avoiding God's rules, why would Talmudic Jews forbid electricity on shabbat? The two main arguments is that it creates a fire and that it counts as building because you're completing a circuit. Both of these arguments are easily disproven. The first with electricity not being fire and that the heat generated from applying a current across a filament is actually halachically kosher because you're allowed to heat up metal on Shabbat. The second argument is disproven with the fact that closing an electric circuit is not building in the same way that closing a door is not building a wall. There's plenty of arguments that the Talmudic Jews could use in order to permit themselves to use electricity on shabbat beyond simple timers and automatic sensors but they do not use these arguments. What I'm asking is why is that the talmudists who "use loopholes to violate god's laws" somehow decided to cause themselves a great inconvenience by not using electricity on shabbat despite there being plenty of reasons to create a loophole and allow it?

I reject your example of timers on shabbat and such as a form of electricity usage that would be considered a prohibition of shabbat because the usage of a fire that was created before shabbat is supported with multiple sources and is consistent with the Orthodox position that electricity is fire.

What's your take on SheenySwitches, then?

 

[Anime Tiddy]

Weird how the separation of church and state people are silent when it comes to separation of synagogue and state.

 

[Hitman One]

I'm now a criminal for practicing Judaism

Inshallah.