Off-Topic Random Trans Thoughts, Musings, and Questions - For all your armchair psych and general sperging

[Susanna]

I wonder how many tims grew up not knowing that girls don't have penises until well into their teens.

I want to understand the psyche behind that and the effects it has long term.

…is that a thing? Or do you mean specifically weird situations like cults or something?

 

[grimacefetishist]

…is that a thing? Or do you mean specifically weird situations like cults or something?

Yeah, in america at least. Maybe it's not as common nowadays since censorship is hard to enforce over the internet

 

[Susanna]

Yeah, in america at least. Maybe it's not as common nowadays since censorship is hard to enforce over the internet

That’s pretty weird. In Europe nude children aren’t sexualised, there are many contexts where it isn’t weird. Like at beaches and such. Any degenerate who thinks to take advantage of that would literally be drowned by outraged fathers.

Anyway there’s no way a teen doesn’t know what the other sex looks like.

 

[grimacefetishist]

That’s pretty weird. In Europe nude children aren’t sexualised, there are many contexts where it isn’t weird. Like at beaches and such. Any degenerate who thinks to take advantage of that would literally be drowned by outraged fathers.

Anyway there’s no way a teen doesn’t know what the other sex looks like.

Again idk how common it is, but I've seen fights break out where one kid would mention something about women not having a dick and then the rest of his friends will gang up on him saying things like "that's stupid, how do they pee?"

 

[Kumquat]

Again idk how common it is, but I've seen fights break out where one kid would mention something about women not having a dick and then the rest of his friends will gang up on him saying things like "that's stupid, how do they pee?"

As an American myself who grew up in America, respectfully, I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Even when I was five I knew about male and female genitalia.

Now, I will grant that I grew up in a sane time period where men were men and women were women, and I will also grant that kids in America are getting dumber by the day and that the American education system is a fucking joke, but this is the first time I've ever heard about kids not knowing what the opposite sex is like anatomically.

That’s pretty weird. In Europe nude children aren’t sexualised, there are many contexts where it isn’t weird. Like at beaches and such. Any degenerate who thinks to take advantage of that would literally be drowned by outraged fathers.

Anyway there’s no way a teen doesn’t know what the other sex looks like.

They aren't sexualized here either (except by pedos and trannies but that's a given, lol). This is the first time I'm hearing about this too.

 

[LimeRikki]

But has anyone ever thought of just accusing them of cultural appropriation. Like if they bring up hijra,

I have done this exactly once. The individual gave a sheepish "well I didn't know that" when I explained what roles two spirit and hijra actually play in those cultures and then switched to another trans topic and refused to explore the subject any further.

 

[Hassou Tobi]

As an American myself who grew up in America, respectfully, I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Even when I was five I knew about male and female genitalia.

I am with you. I feel like most people grew up seeing their siblings being changed every once in a while and things like that...? IDK.

loosely connected thoughts on troon selfishness/socialism

Spoiler

IDK have you ever noticed troons usually have milquetoast "socialist" politics (just means they believe government should pay for their penis inversions and hormones). Yet they are also the same kind of people to post on /r/raisedbynarcissits and feel 0 obligation to their own families and get offended by the idea that you can't leave your elderly mom to die under the bridge even if she wasn't very nice to you. Like...very much internalized "neoliberal" logic.

Good socialism: govt giving me neet bux so I can play vidya all day

Bad socialism: viewing human life and relations as having inherent meaning and obligation which aren’t evaluated in terms of “worth” and “deserve”.

 

[GumballFapper]

I wonder how many tims grew up not knowing that girls don't have penises until well into their teens.

That’s pretty weird. In Europe nude children aren’t sexualised, there are many contexts where it isn’t weird. Like at beaches and such. Any degenerate who thinks to take advantage of that would literally be drowned by outraged fathers.

I grew up in an ultraconservative community in Europe and didn't know that women have different genitals until age 12. The only aftereffect from growing up in that repressive hellhole I can think of is turning into a furry, because I ended up expressing my repressed sexuality by cooming at cartoon characters on TV and never stopped

I've seen far more trannies in liberal cities than that backward shithole, so I can say with 100% certainty that your schizotheory about tims not knowing about female parts is wrong

 

[AMHOLIO]

Yet they are also the same kind of people to post on /r/raisedbynarcissits and feel 0 obligation to their own families and get offended by the idea that you can't leave your elderly mom to die under the bridge even if she wasn't very nice to you. Like...very much internalized "neoliberal" logic.

It's understandable to go through a phase where a person thinks that the universe owes them something and they are determined to get what they feel is owed to them. This is understandable when you're younger, but it seems like trans people never grow out of it. Since they never grow out of it, they never realize they can take charge and choose to do things to benefit themselves instead of placing the blame on others and forcing others to feel the guilt (which is likely partially offsetting the trans person's own self hatred of themselves, not for being trans but for their own actions and personality).

The only aftereffect from growing up in that repressive hellhole I can think of is turning into a furry, because I ended up expressing my repressed sexuality by cooming at cartoon characters on TV and never stopped

Congrats on making a genuinely informational powerlevel relevant to the thread. I wonder if sexuality studies were to be done on places like where you grew up if they had different pressures on fetishes? Gotta be interesting. At least there's less troonouts.

 

[Tragon Dirtle]

I am with you. I feel like most people grew up seeing their siblings being changed every once in a while and things like that...? IDK.

loosely connected thoughts on troon selfishness/socialism

Spoiler

IDK have you ever noticed troons usually have milquetoast "socialist" politics (just means they believe government should pay for their penis inversions and hormones). Yet they are also the same kind of people to post on /r/raisedbynarcissits and feel 0 obligation to their own families and get offended by the idea that you can't leave your elderly mom to die under the bridge even if she wasn't very nice to you. Like...very much internalized "neoliberal" logic.

Good socialism: govt giving me neet bux so I can play vidya all day

Bad socialism: viewing human life and relations as having inherent meaning and obligation which aren’t evaluated in terms of “worth” and “deserve”.

I actually think there's a massive overlap between having narcissistic parents and iding as trans, which would explain both these things. Having narcissistic parents discourages development of a sense of self because they don't like it when you disagree with them, so you can get stuck in a very early developmental stage where you struggle to feel independent and therefore secure in your ability to provide for yourself. And it is very, very hard to catch up. And the second part should be obvious, hopefully. I do think that if you have genuinely abusive parents you should have the right to cut them off and not have them dependent on you for support.

Also the trans identity itself, is a replacement for the adult identity you would have formed if you weren't emotionally stunted by your parents, and it also encourages you to be open about your underdevelopment (girlhood/boyhood as the new gender) in a way you in theory then move on from. I still think a lot of MTFs are doing it for sexual reasons, but I have seen some very young mtfs (before they're encouraged to fetish themselves) and young ftms who I think are like this.

Obviously I don't like troons but particularly with the boomer gen that don't like them, I do meet a lot of narcissistic personalities who have jumped on this as a young people!!! issue rather than actually knowing what the problem is.

 

[Hassou Tobi]

Also the trans identity itself, is a replacement for the adult identity you would have formed if you weren't emotionally stunted by your parents, and it also encourages you to be open about your underdevelopment (girlhood/boyhood as the new gender) in a way you in theory then move on from. I still think a lot of MTFs are doing it for sexual reasons, but I have seen some very young mtfs (before they're encouraged to fetish themselves) and young ftms who I think are like this.

I’ve noticed with some young troons (mtf) they have almost like a male version of ROGD. I get the sense they have basically neglectful (at best) parents who leave their weird, likely autistic son to marinate online all day and that’s how they fall into the troon trap. It comes along with incels etc believing women live life on easy mode etc too.

No idea about the early childhood psychology stuff, never been my bag. However it makes sense that ppl who grow up mostly online lack a real sense of identity as that is mostly formed by real interactions with other ppl irl.

Parental obligation sperging:

Spoiler

I personally feel children have an obligation to make sure their parents are cared for, if they are able. This is partly informed by my faith. Of course people always go to the extreme outliers as a kind of gotcha (“WHAT IF THE DAD PIMPED HIS DAUGHTER OUT TO A 1000 GUYS?! SHE HAS TO TAKE CARE OF HIM?!”). But that’s not really what 99% of people are talking about when they’re talking about their “abusive” parents. Who, yes, do exist. But I still feel like the obligation to make sure they’re taken care of, even though the parents failed them, still exists. It’s strange to me this is seen as some extreme position when it was the norm up until ~50 years ago and still is in many countries. (Also for every horrible parent story I could tell probably many more stories of lonely, feeble old people neglected and eating cat food…)

But this is informed by my faith and also isn’t something that has a “right” answer, I guess. I still find it kind of amazing that ppl feel fine about letting their mother and father die homeless and in poverty (and I had abusive parents) but uhh you (general you) do you I guess.

 

[Argos]

@Kumquat: Sometimes what-might-have-been is harder to forgive or let go of than reality.

Don't beat yourself up.

 

[Aero the Alcoholic Bat]

Also the trans identity itself, is a replacement for the adult identity you would have formed if you weren't emotionally stunted by your parents, and it also encourages you to be open about your underdevelopment (girlhood/boyhood as the new gender) in a way you in theory then move on from. I still think a lot of MTFs are doing it for sexual reasons, but I have seen some very young mtfs (before they're encouraged to fetish themselves) and young ftms who I think are like this.

Obviously I don't like troons but particularly with the boomer gen that don't like them, I do meet a lot of narcissistic personalities who have jumped on this as a young people!!! issue rather than actually knowing what the problem is.

A lot of those parents are emotionally immature themselves, the result of multiple generations who lacked the intelligence to teach their children correct principles and let them govern themselves, let them make mistakes, learn from them, etc. Instead choosing to scream and yell at them for doing things they don't like.

 

[Tragon Dirtle]

A lot of those parents are emotionally immature themselves, the result of multiple generations who lacked the intelligence to teach their children correct principles and letting them govern themselves, make mistakes, learn from them, etc, instead choosing to scream and yell at them for doing things they don't like.

Probably true. I know what it's like to have a parent who sees you trying to improve / help yourself as criticism of them or the family. And you don't get a built in new 'rainbow family' with therapy or self-improvement. If we could make a cultural trend out of something like CODA org it would help a lot more than transitioning, but there's none of the money in it.

 

[AMHOLIO]

@Kumquat: Sometimes what-might-have-been is harder to forgive or let go of than reality.

Don't beat yourself up.

Second. Guilt and regret are understandable, but too much is paralyzing and you can't punish yourself forever.

Slightly related, I see FtMs get into the self hate spiral with self punishment since even if people tell those girls and women to cut it out, guilt is a hard emotion to get rid of as is compulsive self hate and low self esteem. I feel. For women and girls like that, it's hard to crawl out and easy to keep going into the body modification and dysphoria hole of Testosterone and shit.

 

[Sonalee Rashitwar]

I came across something interesting at random while looking on Spotify for a Ben Folds track. Will try to link here.

Sperging

Anyway, I’m interested in politics and how people’s thinking and narratives can be shaped. And being gay and detrans, I never thought I would feel sympathy for such right-wing people.

Link is a song about Bristol Palin’s baby daddy being thrust into the spotlight in 2008 because of her pregnancy when her mom, Sarah Palin, was VP nominee. It sort of rings true with my experience coming out, then detransitioning. He talks in a related interview about not knowing that Sarah Palin announced he would marry Bristol or the extent of the Palin ambitions and suddenly waking up to the media circus at his door. He was pressured to do what he was told, do it for the politics, the optics, do “right.”

“Three thousand cameras pointing at me, dude says “You Levi?” “Yes, that’s me sir.” “Well, you just knocked up the VP nominee’s daughter.”

It just struck me as being similar to the massive attention and publicity that people, especially a bit well-known, get when they come out as trans. Slight PL, but I did get a bit of that kind of thing when I did, because I work in a conservative field. Thank fuck I stayed out of actual media pieces, but I was educated and work in a niche field where everyone talks. Similar pressure to go with the correct narrative, do what I was told, move forward, even as I figured things out. I had to be some kind of example, a leader.

Not that I live somewhere I can hunt moose, and never thought I’d empathize with Palin and co., but it seems Sarah aside, they didn’t want the spotlight either- instead, to be normal, and handle things privately.


If I’m super reaching with this analogy, think about Navalny’s parents and widow, or those two women in Kuala Lumpur who were Kim Jong-Nam’s unwitting assassins for North Korea. They didn’t know they were stepping into a narrative that has its own momentum and several powerful players of its own.

And I think this trans narrative and pipeline is really powerful, especially in certain circles. Under spotlights, it’s hard to change your mind or back down. There are pressures all their own involved, particularly with a parent pushing the idea.

 

[Deepland Bystander]

I personally feel children have an obligation to make sure their parents are cared for, if they are able. This is partly informed by my faith. Of course people always go to the extreme outliers as a kind of gotcha (“WHAT IF THE DAD PIMPED HIS DAUGHTER OUT TO A 1000 GUYS?! SHE HAS TO TAKE CARE OF HIM?!”). But that’s not really what 99% of people are talking about when they’re talking about their “abusive” parents. Who, yes, do exist. But I still feel like the obligation to make sure they’re taken care of, even though the parents failed them, still exists. It’s strange to me this is seen as some extreme position when it was the norm up until ~50 years ago and still is in many countries. (Also for every horrible parent story I could tell probably many more stories of lonely, feeble old people neglected and eating cat food…)

But this is informed by my faith and also isn’t something that has a “right” answer, I guess. I still find it kind of amazing that ppl feel fine about letting their mother and father die homeless and in poverty (and I had abusive parents) but uhh you (general you) do you I guess.

Spoiler: A Counter Perspective and mild PL

I know you don't want 'gotcha' but I'm going to have at it.
Just for a counter perspective - sometimes your parents failed you so much that it wouldn't be possible for you to take care of your parents, or even take care of yourself, if you didn't leave and separate yourself from them. Speaking as someone who's from a country where it's not expected for children to move out and filial piety is still expected part of society, and I also have abusive parents, the kind of shit that would go on the farms on the insane Munchausen thread.

I get your point that online logic when it comes to abusive parents can be too extreme. They'd tell you to go NC immediately when your parents misgender you and shit like that, which I feel like they are thinking on black and white and diluted any real instances of abuse but I'm also sick at the other end of the argument that you need to love your parents because they're solely your parents regardless how horrible they treated you. I think @Tragon Dirtle and @Aero the Alcoholic Bat are right about this.
And for me, I think it's a tragedy that I simply cannot like my family anymore. I tried hard to make things up bit they simply just can't change.

There's the value of having roots AND having real life close connections. I see my need to leave my parents more of a tragedy than some empowerment... and I also know that some creepy 'found families' won't ever replace that. There's the fact that I'm more likely to die in destitute alone compared to my well-off family because they have money and on my own I don't, but by being alone at least there's an opportunities for me to have a job and make things for myself.

And a lot of "weird, autistic" children who may become troons are possibly not autistic in deep, neurologically unchangable way. Autism is no different from troonism now where the criteria has become too broad to be meaningful, it has become a thing for people to latch their problems on. And I also have seen a lot of abused and neglected children being misdiagnosed with autism because the parents are too well-presented in public and too middle class for them to be seen as abusive.

 

[deermeat]

I can't stress enough how dystopian our world is and how all of this is leading up to one big event that will change the course of history as we know it,
Transgenderism is gonna be the final straw. It is gonna be the thing that breaks the camels back. And what makes me laugh is how so many of these people truly think that they are the "counter culture" ones, that theyyy know the answers and theyyy know how "fucked up everything is". Oh buddy, oh my goodness you have no idea how fucking wrecked everything is. You are the byproduct in itself.

I am not one of those "born in the wrong generation" types of people, that's an immature mindset to have. But being in my early 20s, I was certainly born in a generation full of turmoil. I was born where decades prior of corruption is now coming to ahead and I'm about to witness the breaking point.

Between the fucked up food industry that started in the 60s-80s, gender experimentation (modern day gender ideology) that started in the 60s-80s, the effects of Project MockingBird in action, the US interferance with other nations, Big Pharma's constant accumalation of scandals that unleash epidemics and disease onto the American people, etc etc.
It has been one thing after the other slowly building up until now. Everything is in shambles. At least in the past, there was the illusion maintained. Now that the illusion is gone, there is nothing holding people together. Democracy is just flatout nonexistent in such a blatant manner, with immigrants rushing into the country in mass right now and the lack of any ID to vote as well as the distrust toward the goverment in such an overall massive scale in regards to both sides of the political spectrum... It's all gonna be one big shitshow, man. I don't think it will be a "civil war". I think it will be something else. I think something is coming but I am not entirely sure what it will be.

I know this is somewhat not trans related, but I think the whole trans stuff is the tipping. You gotta understand that families, the mothers and fathers of the world, are the primary source of what keeps the world going. You fuck with their kids and you got hell to deal with. I have faith in the next generation because that's the generation that is gonna be the ones who face the conquences of everything and they aren't gonna be quiet about it.

 

[Poppy Brown]

I personally feel children have an obligation to make sure their parents are cared for, if they are able. This is partly informed by my faith.

Were you raised in your faith by parents with a similar strong faith? If you were, I don't think you truly understand just how narcissistic and selfish most neoliberal, parents can truly be or really just how selfish most boomers in general can be. Hell, I'd estimate at least half of boomer parents were snorting cocaine rather than raising their kids and that's regardless of political affiliation.

Neoliberals are probably the worst of the boomers though. These people are fundamentally selfish and were basically the precursors for the woke bullshit we see today. Just like the woke of today, neoliberal boomers feel entitled to things they did nothing to earn and are allergic to accountability. They will make every excuse in the book for why it's never their fault, even when the consequences of their selfishness and ineptitude are staring them in the face. This is no more evident than when they complain about how the woke children they raised won't talk to them. Like seriously their own children hate them and won't speak to them, but it's somehow not at all their fault? Bullshit.

I think people underestimate just how bad these parents truly are. Like, imagine having to live with someone so incredibly selfish during your developmental years and being dependent on them for your survival. Imagine having to basically raise yourself with the TV or online, because your braindead parents couldn't be bothered. Imagine every time you try to break out of their entitled victim mentality, they pull you back in, because they are too selfish to allow you to do better than them. How is that not going to fuck someone up and make them angry? So yeah maybe they didn't beat their kids, but also didn't even do the bare minimum for their children, so why should the "social contract" even apply to them anymore? Actually, raise your kids next time.

We see this type of shit all the time too. These are the parents with 300lbs kids, crying on some documentary on childhood obesity that they have no idea how their child got so fat and when all they buy their kid is junk food. These are the parents who allow their children unrestricted access to the internet, and then cry when their kid troons out. These are the parents who never help their kids with their homework, and then blame it on the teacher that their kid is failing. These are the parents who never teach their kids any morals, but then cry that they bought into woke ideology. It's like don't understand cause and effect, and after a certain point, a kid is just tired of dealing with their parent's bullshit and needs to get the fuck away from them. Sadly many just land in the hands of the gender cult, but that's why this type of parenting is so fucked up and should not be downplayed just because some hypothetical kid got in worse.

Anyway, all this to say, I don't blame the troons for people cutting their parents out of their lives. Selfish parents naturally end up with children who hate them and if able to will cut them out of their lives. The Troon shit is just an excuse for doing what they wanted to do anyway. And yeah maybe it's selfish of them, but selfish parents are likely going to raise selfish children, so again who's fault is it? Some people actually do cut off their parents to break generational cycles though, so I reject the notion that to break the cycle of selfishness you gotta suck it up and take care of people who proved your entire life they didn't give a fuck about you. Invest that energy caring for your children and spouse, who never did you dirty like that in the first place.

 

[Hassou Tobi]

Were you raised in your faith by parents with a similar strong faith? If you were, I don't think you truly understand just how narcissistic and selfish most neoliberal, parents can truly be or really just how selfish most boomers in general can be. Hell, I'd estimate at least half of boomer parents were snorting cocaine rather than raising their kids and that's regardless of political affiliation.

Spoiler

No, I spent 10 years estranged from my own (basically atheist) family. I'm tired of arguing about this. I've had selfish tards on reddit try to justify their position with absurd hypotheticals ("but what if your dad and all his friends raped you every day since you were six?!?! How dare you suggest that girl have to take care of her dad!!!") I don't know how to explain to people that they should feel a responsibility to their family and see that their parents living under a bridge at 70, which was the norm to do up until ~50 years ago and still is in most countries. I'll just say go read r/raisedbynarcissists and tell me all of these people are genuinely beleaguered by irredeemably horrible parents. My only other thought is the strong feelings this seems to provoke is telling.