Off-Topic Random Trans Thoughts, Musings, and Questions - For all your armchair psych and general sperging

[Da Grim Reaper]

Isn't it just easier to remove gender dysphoria out of someone's brain than it is to permanently destroy their lives just so they can emulate something that nature already does for granted?

Like, why do mankind as a collective think that putting "trans people" through "gender reassignment" is the most humane treatment for these people? I know that these people are fucked in the head just like those who are born with low functioning autism, or schizophrenia.
But to be real honest - if western science were a little bit more humane, they'd stop pumping the mentally ill with hormones, chopping their body parts, or even stitching new ones in place.
Instead, you know what WOULD fix this shit long-term? Actual therapy. Not shock treatment, not torture, not lobotomizing them, not even pumping them with other brain altering drugs either.
Actual counseling to address the root cause as to WHY they dislike their bodies instead of just band-aiding the symptoms with Mengelian projects. It would take a lot of time and resources, but the pay off would be massive, something worthy of a Nobel prize. Lots of lives saved, no genitals removed, no families ruined.

But no, better to chop 'em up and keep the clown vomit crusade going!
All to prevent suicide, the same suicide that they use as emotional blackmailing against those who don't understand them.
The Fourth Industrial Revolution is near, and yet, it's saddening me how the only solution to this issue is by giving them a barbaric ass backwards 19th century treatment.

 

[TruffleSpark]

Like, why do mankind as a collective think that putting "trans people" through "gender reassignment" is the most humane treatment for these people? I know that these people are fucked in the head just like those who are born with low functioning autism, or schizophrenia.
But to be real honest - if western science were a little bit more humane, they'd stop pumping the mentally ill with hormones, chopping their body parts, or even stitching new ones in place.

I'm not really convinced that gender affirming care does anything to reduce gender dysphoria anyway. Troons take it is as a self evident truth that it does, but I'm not aware of any other form of compulsive behavior that gets less stressful if you indulge it. And I see no reason why a compulsion to present as the opposite sex should work on different logic.

 

[Wallace]

You're assuming what is wrong with them is really gender dysphoria. It isn't. It is a Gordian knot of self-loathing, lack of community, lack of purpose, pornography addiction, and free-floating anxiety about their status in life. Actually treating these conditions is hard, and it often results in asking awkward questions and unpalatable answers. Just saying "gender dysphoria" is much quicker.

Medicine does have a history of looking to simple answers for complex issues, because the simple answers make us feel smart and powerful. Our brains like such intellectual shortcuts because it reduces our cognitive demand, and the belief in our own moral and intellectual superiority feeds the ego.

 

[Jacques1194]

Isn't it just easier to remove gender dysphoria out of someone's brain than it is to permanently destroy their lives just so they can emulate something that nature already does for granted?

Like, why do mankind as a collective think that putting "trans people" through "gender reassignment" is the most humane treatment for these people? I know that these people are fucked in the head just like those who are born with low functioning autism, or schizophrenia.
But to be real honest - if western science were a little bit more humane, they'd stop pumping the mentally ill with hormones, chopping their body parts, or even stitching new ones in place.
Instead, you know what WOULD fix this shit long-term? Actual therapy. Not shock treatment, not torture, not lobotomizing them, not even pumping them with other brain altering drugs either.
Actual counseling to address the root cause as to WHY they dislike their bodies instead of just band-aiding the symptoms with Mengelian projects. It would take a lot of time and resources, but the pay off would be massive, something worthy of a Nobel prize. Lots of lives saved, no genitals removed, no families ruined.

Because if you dare try to get to the root cause of why these people feel the way they do or try to remove dysphoria from their brain, they'll scream "conversion therapy!" I mentioned this in either another thread or in this one a few pages back, most of these people will argue that taking away their desire to be a woman is cruel and compared it to taking away a kid's desired career choice like being an astronaut. Not only is this not comparable because of the fact that the kid who wants to be an astronaut has a more realistic desire that can potentially happen, but even so, the kid wouldn't be threatening suicide if people told him he can never be an astronaut or never reaches his goal. Even if the technology isn't there now, most TIPs delude themselves into believing that sex changes will eventually be possible and that they'll be no reason for a cis person to reject dating a trans person.

I'm not really convinced that gender affirming care does anything to reduce gender dysphoria anyway. Troons take it is as a self evident truth that it does, but I'm not aware of any other form of compulsive behavior that gets less stressful if you indulge it. And I see no reason why a compulsion to present as the opposite sex should work on different logic.

This is why the " 97% of trans people are satisfied with their care." and "The suicide rate drops if people affirm their gender" studies are meaningless. These are people who'll tell you that there's no reason for a straight "cis" man or a "cis" lesbian to reject dating a trans person because " I have a vagina now, so there's no excuse for you to reject me!" like these people are entitled to a date because they chose to chop their balls off. It's just feeding their delusions that they actually changed their sex (or gender since they argue they aren't changing their sex) and that if you deny that they're women you're causing them to kill themselves. Its always someone else's fault and never the trans person having OCD over everything that causes their dysphoria to come back.

 

[Gluten free nut milk]

I'm not really convinced that gender affirming care does anything to reduce gender dysphoria anyway. Troons take it is as a self evident truth that it does, but I'm not aware of any other form of compulsive behavior that gets less stressful if you indulge it. And I see no reason why a compulsion to present as the opposite sex should work on different logic.

Anecdotally, it seems to make gender dysphoria worse as they ruminate on the feelings endlessly and find new things to hate about their bodies without ever challenging those thoughts because using CBT techniques on this form of body dysmorphia is conversion therapy. Since they're never addressing their actual issues, they also have a vested interest in continuing to experience gender dysphoria so they can hold on to the dream of that next surgery finally being the thing that fixes their lives. I don't think it's a coincidence that there are so many posts from troons who started with no interest in genital surgery changing their minds once they got all the other available surgeries and needed to keep the gender journey going, plus troons who are post-everything wading into increasingly obscure and dangerous procedures like shoulder narrowing and limb shortening.

 

[Ruined by the Rain]

Isn't it just easier to remove gender dysphoria out of someone's brain than it is to permanently destroy their lives just so they can emulate something that nature already does for granted?

Easier to do drugs than fix your mental illness. You might say it like it's easy but it's going to be years, if not decades of therapy work potentially racking up thousands of dollars. Not all of us is going to have the opportunity to pursue that.

Actual counseling to address the root cause as to WHY they dislike their bodies instead of just band-aiding the symptoms with Mengelian projects. It would take a lot of time and resources, but the pay off would be massive, something worthy of a Nobel prize. Lots of lives saved, no genitals removed, no families ruined.

Even if you save them from one danger it's likely that they would get into other ones to continue the behavior, although maybe literally anything else is still better than cutting off your tits and uterus.

 

[nowaver]

First post so sorry if my post is a little disjointed. I was born in a very religious Islamic country, and when I was two, I moved to a state in the deep south of America (can't give out much but you can probably guess which state it is.) I grew up in a very socially conservative area, and also a very socially conservative household (although my parents vote blue.) Even though our area was conservative, it was also pretty diverse. Growing up, my experiences with trans people were extremely rare, up until high school at least. I met one transgender kid in elementary school. (FtM, and then de-transitioned later on.) At the time I didn't know they were trans, so the day they started wearing a bandana to school due to HRT, I went home crying to my mom that a classmate of mine had cancer. At that time, I still held anti-gay and anti-trans beliefs, so I didn't talk to them too much, but the times we did interact, they were nice. When they started getting bullied in middle school, I felt like shit cause that trans kid was quiet and didn't bother anybody. Eventually, they moved, and in high school, I started to realize a lot of my friends were going through gender dysphoria. It's something that was so alien to me, so when one of my best friends was telling me how horrible gender dysphoria was, all I understood was that I wouldn't wish that shit on anybody. In my personal experience, all the trans people who I know have been nothing but sweet to me, online though, it's more of a mixed bag. Most of the trans people I've met were super nice, but in leftist communities filled with LGBTQ people and furries, they would make me walk on eggshells for everything I said even though I'm a leftist too (part of the reason I'm using this site lol). Apart from those jerks online, I haven't really had a bad experience with a trans person. I read up on some of the threads on kiwi about trans surgeries, (I'm not even going to dare clicking on the pictures in that thread) and it was pretty interesting. As far as I know, there are very few trans people who get top/bottom surgeries, and most of them are on HRT, although doing either of those before you're an adult is a pretty bad idea. That Jazz Jennings shit and minors transitioning are both things I'm uncomfortable with. IDK where I'm even going with this, but yeah, most of the trans people I've met aren't crazy or assholes, just stay away from those online spaces lol.

 

[Not A Bunny]

I'm not really convinced that gender affirming care does anything to reduce gender dysphoria anyway.

It offers a short-term high, like drugs.

Where it goes psychologically wonky is that it shifts the goalposts on self-acceptance. Why should you just accept one surgery when more is available to tweak you and tuck you and do whatever else if you haven't yet reached your ideal state?

I haven't heard in one discussion of transitioning a doctor setting a boundary of: you can only do this much, and then after that, you have to accept the results.

That's why I can't accept that gender affirming care is a good idea. Because you're instilling in these lost souls the idea that acceptance is something that isn't within reach without serious medical trauma.

Everyone needs their expectations managed. And part of that is the understanding that no one else is obligated to accept you either. And that's why transgenderism is currently an uncontrolled monster full of broken people that may never be whole.

 

[AMHOLIO]

Like, why do mankind as a collective think that putting "trans people" through "gender reassignment" is the most humane treatment for these people?

1. Many people who aren't doctors don't know how different men and women are biologically. They also don't know how close we can make a male to female and a female to male, which is barely/not at all. Most people don't think or question it.
2. People think that trans people are pitiable and treat them more like disabled/mentally unwell people than normal. It's done out of pity
3. Not everyone knows a trans person IRL. People don't understand what most trans people are like in person or they can't identify what it is.
4. It's logical in a bizarre way. Some people still think most/all troons are like one step beyond gay and are mega gay, so they have to change genders to fix that. Or the belief in the gendered souls, which even atheists can fall into without realizing it.
5. Scientist love to try new things. What separates scientists from normies is their strong curiosity: is this possible? How can we do this? Can I make this possible? Some get so excited to try something they don't think of the consequences until they're there in front of them (Oppenheimer is a good display of this), some don't give a fuck and the human impact means nothing (most of the SRS thread). With funding & approval, they can do such. If they're seen as a respectable profession like a doctor or a surgeon already, then they'll be seen as more of an expert and someone both normal people and lawmakers can trust (even though you can't always, but that's derailing this).

Even if you save them from one danger it's likely that they would get into other ones to continue the behavior, although maybe literally anything else is still better than cutting off your tits and uterus.

The other part is that whether they respond well to any treatment or not: a personality disorder nut will not be responsive to treatment as much as a depressed person. An ornery and stubborn person who will not let go of their rage against the machine will be less likely to be responsive to treatment. The saddest thing in psychology is that not everyone can be saved, and the second saddest is that those who possibly can will still occassionally refuse help and leave their loved ones to suffer as they self destruct. People will look for the magic pill because it is easy. They will not try to change if they're too afraid or it is deemed by them to be too hard. There will also be people who claim they want to change then will do nothing because they don't want to actually change, they just want to stop feeling the consequences of their actions.

 

[AMHOLIO]

Most of the trans people I've met were super nice, but in leftist communities filled with LGBTQ people and furries, they would make me walk on eggshells for everything I said even though I'm a leftist too (part of the reason I'm using this site lol).

I've met several nice trans people too. There's a lot who are trans who mostly suffer from things like anxiety, depression, low self confidence, and convince themselves they're trans because they hate their bodies or get stuck on a repeating thought. There's a number of trans people who are in the real world and not surrounded by the hardcore eggshell walking groups who retain their actual human nature. I've met a few who've complained about online trans spaces as well.

It just depends on the person and depends on the groups of people they are with. Always treat someone you don't know as well with the same general respect you give others, until you have a reason not to respect them. The worst will make it very, very clear that they are not worthy of respect within a short time.

 

[ilovecornsyrup]

The entire "I have to dress like a 5 year old girl because I never got a girlhood" thing that troons do is so weird to me. There are so many children across the globe who "never got a childhood". Actual girls are getting trafficked, abused, forced to take care of everyone when they lose their parents. Orphans end up on the streets in many 3rd world countries. Boys end up as child soldiers or working in sweatshops etc. They don't act like this. Here you have a bunch of men who grew up in loving middle class families in the 1st world, whining about how their childhoods were ruined because mommy didnt allow them to wear a skirt, and how they should be allowed to act like pedophiles because of it.

 

[Aunt Carol]

Here you have a bunch of men who grew up in loving middle class families in the 1st world, whining about how their childhoods were ruined because mommy didnt allow them to wear a skirt, and how they should be allowed to act like pedophiles because of it.

You can find plenty of people offhandedly talking about doing things as adults that they felt like they were missing out on as children. There was a lot of that when Vienetta ice cream cake came back into production--ex-poor kids who've wanted to try one since the ads in the 1980s. People raised in hardcore religion trying out AD&D or reading YA urban fantasy books from 20 years ago. Ex-7DAs enjoying any holiday ever.

Plenty of other little things like that, but nobody but troons has to make it a whole immersive 24/7 experience (or 16/7 because it only counts when they're being given attention by other people). Normal people realize that you can have a nostalgic experience, but you can't redo the past, and you certainly can't live there.

 

[soup peddler]

The entire "I have to dress like a 5 year old girl because I never got a girlhood" thing that troons do is so weird to me. There are so many children across the globe who "never got a childhood". Actual girls are getting trafficked, abused, forced to take care of everyone when they lose their parents. Orphans end up on the streets in many 3rd world countries. Boys end up as child soldiers or working in sweatshops etc. They don't act like this. Here you have a bunch of men who grew up in loving middle class families in the 1st world, whining about how their childhoods were ruined because mommy didnt allow them to wear a skirt, and how they should be allowed to act like pedophiles because of it.

I know these kinds of people weren't working with a full deck to start with, but with the almost pubescent rush of hormones interacting with their brains, it would not surprise me at all if in a decade we learn that HRT stunts brain growth. There is just something not right with people's brains once they go on it.

 

[Not A Bunny]

The entire "I have to dress like a 5 year old girl because I never got a girlhood" thing that troons do is so weird to me. There are so many children across the globe who "never got a childhood".

There's a large-scale fetishization of childhood out there currently that we're suffering from massively.

Incoming theoretical sperg:

I know that the concept of "childhood" is relatively new, and in my mind, it's not bad as paradigms go, but like many, many paradigms in this day and age, it's a thing that people are just attached to at unhealthy levels.

They think that there is this "ideal" version of childhood that people aren't just supposed to have, they are entitled to. Or if they've had a really good childhood, they can't help wanting it back. So we as a wealthy society extend childhood. It's like that one video from years back of a girl at some Ivy League screaming at the provost or some high-level administrator that college is supposed to be like a home. Or how grown-ass adults think they need a mommy or daddy figure that "looks" like them in the workplace in order for them to be functional. Or how if you go to the mall, you find a store that serves cookie dough like ice cream.

Troons are the absolute worst because they think they're entitled to the childhood that they could not possibly have had. And worse, if they've attached themselves to a child, they want to make sure that they get the "right" childhood, which is why they can't let children go through that pesky "wrong" puberty. It's also what's driving the tantrums from the trans community: you need to satisfy ME. You need to affirm ME. And if you don't give me what I want, I'm going to hold my breath until I turn blue!

And for some reason, we haven't collectively called it out for the childish tantrum that it is.

 

[Wallace]

The entire "I have to dress like a 5 year old girl because I never got a girlhood" thing that troons do is so weird to me. There are so many children across the globe who "never got a childhood". Actual girls are getting trafficked, abused, forced to take care of everyone when they lose their parents. Orphans end up on the streets in many 3rd world countries. Boys end up as child soldiers or working in sweatshops etc. They don't act like this. Here you have a bunch of men who grew up in loving middle class families in the 1st world, whining about how their childhoods were ruined because mommy didnt allow them to wear a skirt, and how they should be allowed to act like pedophiles because of it.

There's a deep streak of Peter Pan syndrome in troon circles. The identification as "trans girls" is another example of how the goal is not to become a female version of themselves, but a completely different person altogether. The adult self is destroyed, replaced with eternal childhood-or perhaps, eternal infantilization. Now they don't have to do anything except play with toys and expect an omnipotent and infinitely loving parent to care for them. It's not just about refusing to mature physically, it's about refusing to mature emotionally too. No wonder they're in love with the idea of halting puberty.

Think of a society made of clones of Kevin Gibes. Grown adults trapped at the emotional development of four year olds: forever following their own whims and pleasure-seeking for the approval of Mommy, who is not a guiding parent but a best friend that gives them everything that they demand without hesitation. Being told 'no' is unfair, so the appropriate reaction is to scream to Mommy to remedy the unfairness. The only purpose of their sexual organs is self-gratification, so they can be molded into whatever gives them the most pleasure. And of course, utterly unable to function as adults. No pesky adult responsibilities, just feeling cute, playing, and occasionally stroking your girldick.

This is also why almost all troons are deeply emotionally immature too. Their psychological defenses are child-like: They don't accept responsibility and blame others for their failures, they prioritize their own desires over others, they expect to be taken care of, they value escapism to an unhealthy degree, and they have no interest in building a career or growing up as a person. They want to remain immature adults.

 

[TruffleSpark]

Thinking about this 2000s era meme and how unironically accurate it is for troons, right down to the "woman like hormones" thing:

I've met several nice trans people too. There's a lot who are trans who mostly suffer from things like anxiety, depression, low self confidence, and convince themselves they're trans because they hate their bodies or get stuck on a repeating thought. There's a number of trans people who are in the real world and not surrounded by the hardcore eggshell walking groups who retain their actual human nature. I've met a few who've complained about online trans spaces as well.

It just depends on the person and depends on the groups of people they are with. Always treat someone you don't know as well with the same general respect you give others, until you have a reason not to respect them. The worst will make it very, very clear that they are not worthy of respect within a short time.

The key thing to remember is that even troons who are basically nice people still have a completely ridiculous belief system. It doesn't become less stupid just because it has a friendly messenger.

 

[YWNBAM]

Thinking about this 2000s era meme and how unironically accurate it is for troons, right down to the "woman like hormones" thing:
View attachment 6538255

This is literally a meme about emasculization. Men have been using this tactic to toughen each other up since the beginning of time, but the problem is that it doesn't work. Instead of teaching beta males to suck it up and man up, it gives them the idea that "girl" is this accountability-free title. Become one and you don't have to work on the things people make fun of you for.

A very toxic idea that's always been around in male circles within families, schools and workplaces, but one that's spread like wildfire since mass media and the internet came into the picture.

Also, maybe it's because of how shizo I've become after falling down the tranny rabbit hole recently, but I can't help but feel there's something secretly sexual about this meme because of all the "sissies" and "real mayns". And it's just a funny picture from the 00s. But God, is it gay.

 

[Aero the Alcoholic Bat]

You're assuming what is wrong with them is really gender dysphoria. It isn't. It is a Gordian knot of self-loathing, lack of community, lack of purpose, pornography addiction, and free-floating anxiety about their status in life. Actually treating these conditions is hard, and it often results in asking awkward questions and unpalatable answers. Just saying "gender dysphoria" is much quicker.

Transgenderism and transitioning is a band-aid solution for a reason: a lot of those "awkward questions" and "unpalatable answers" involves questioning things that social progressives have taken for granted for decades.

We'd have to question things like whether it really was a good idea for society to have loose restrictions on pornography, whether sticking up for the pornographer's or hentai artist's right to "free expression" really was a hill worth dying on.

Or whether gay marriage really was a good idea or whether it was only done to make a small of group of sexually dysfunctional adults shut the fuck up (it didn't, lmao)

Or whether the sexual revolution really was a good idea, and not an absolute disaster for society.

Or whether it was really a good idea to remove peoples' sense of purpose and identity by denigrating religion and nationalism, even healthy nationalism.

For people who are whole-heartedly devoted to social progressivism, it's much easier to butcher people and feel righteous for it than ever admit that those foggy old conservatives had a point the whole time.

Medicine does have a history of looking to simple answers for complex issues, because the simple answers make us feel smart and powerful. Our brains like such intellectual shortcuts because it reduces our cognitive demand, and the belief in our own moral and intellectual superiority feeds the ego.

I find that transgenderism violates occam's razor more often than not. Transgenderism, especially on the fringes like nonbinary or gender-fluid, involves gish galloping, circular arguments, tautologies, or overly lengthy, wordy explanations in order to justify itself.

Whereas arguments against transgenderism are more often simple, to the point, and easy to understand.

Lengthy, complex arguments feed the ego, especially intellectuals who take undue pride in rejecting common sense because it's too simple and straightforward and isn't "deep" enough for them.

 

[2mm and 99 others]

This is also why almost all troons are deeply emotionally immature too. Their psychological defenses are child-like: They don't accept responsibility and blame others for their failures, they prioritize their own desires over others, they expect to be taken care of, they value escapism to an unhealthy degree, and they have no interest in building a career or growing up as a person. They want to remain immature adults.

That's one of the reasons why are they so fixed on JKR and even make seminars about how to still enjoy HP despite its author being a massive TERF.
I mean, they did not grow up as readers and as people. It's not like I did not enjoy the early HP's as a kid and did not look forward to read new books, but later it's harder to overlook all the faults, also you find new favourite styles, authors who describe a more mature experience, realize the IRL is sometimes interesting too...
I just can't see myself obsessing about a kids' or teen's book author saying wrongthink ; but they, the mid-30's now, were sorting themselves and fictional characters into Hogwarts houses and had those triangle tattoos made right until the moment she said the terfy thing.
Also, did not they notice in her writing before, that she's fairly conservative?

 

[Not A Bunny]

The key thing to remember is that even troons who are basically nice people still have a completely ridiculous belief system. It doesn't become less stupid just because it has a friendly messenger.

That's why I can't even get behind people like Blaire White or Buck Angel. Because even if they are sensible about being transgender, they've still bought into the cult.

Transgenderism, especially on the fringes like nonbinary or gender-fluid, involves gish galloping, circular arguments, tautologies, or overly lengthy, wordy explanations in order to justify itself.

And codependence. Don't forget about that. They don't need just their own buy-in, they need YOURS as well.

I just can't see myself obsessing about a kids' or teen's book author saying wrongthink

I can't see myself getting amped about a singular work of fiction, but that's the power of consumerism. The kids who grew up on Harry Potter grew up in the cult of people that need to constantly identify themselves, either with a character or a personality archetype. Thus both "representation" and identification with houses. They are so bereft of self-development that they found a snug little set of definitions and all the accessories to go with it to wrap themselves in and they are so fully immersed in it, that they can't even see past having an identity without it.

That's why these obsessive lunatics can't read another book and get froggy over JKR. It's isn't just a work of fiction, it's who they are. And they will keep that identity by force if necessary because they have no idea who they'd be without it.