Off-Topic Random Trans Thoughts, Musings, and Questions - For all your armchair psych and general sperging

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I used to dislike the term "transphobia". I figured, I'm not scared of them, like an arachnophobe is scared of spiders or an agoraphobe is scared of going outside, I just don't like them.

But then I got into an argument with a proglodyte on Reddit (cringe, gay, I know) who explained to me that the classic psychological definition of a phobia as 'an unreasonable fear of something' wasn't really the only possible root of the word- it could just as easily mean 'a strong aversion'.

They brought up the use of the term in other scientific contexts- for example, oil does not mix with water because it is hydrophobic. Water does not mix with oil because it is oleophobic.

So I really was a heckin transphobe after all. I was annoyed, but I couldn't disagree with them.

And the more I've thought about it, the more I think they were right, that "transphobic" is a great and apt term, when you look at it that way.

I am simply extremely repelled by them, will not readily mingle with them; when placed into a common space I naturally gravitate away from them.

So, I'm transphobic. Sure. I'm "phobic" toward trannies in the way that water is "phobic" toward oil.

What's the problem?
 
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stepparents.webp
Is there a word for when an argument is difficult to rebut, not because it is a good argument, but because it is so self-evidently retarded that it would just take far too much effort to break down all the ways in which it makes no sense? The closest thing I can think of is the South Park by way of TvTropes concept of the "Chewbacca Defense", which is an argument so absurd and nonsensical that it becomes impossible to properly deconstruct and rebut. This feels similar, but distinct. There is an actual argument here with a clear through line of logic. But it is so stupid that it would be easier to reboot a persons brain and start from scratch than it would be to reason with someone who sincerely thinks this makes sense. And we all know from the failure of the whole "I identify as an attack helicopter" argument that merely pointing out that troon logic leads to absurd scenarios is not an effective debate tactic against troons.

The closest I can think of to someone breaking down this style of debate is this Anna Slatz tweet:
comparisons.webp
 
Is there a word for when an argument is difficult to rebut, not because it is a good argument, but because it is so self-evidently retarded that it would just take far too much effort to break down all the ways in which it makes no sense?
This sort of argument is a false equivalence, in which a single subjective similarity is used to proclaim objective equivalence between two different things.
 
Trooning has happened for the entire history of mankind. It's not going to stop any time soon. As long as there's gays there will be troons
This is the lie that the troons repeat in an attempt to bend reality to their favor and grow their numbers. Yes, I'm sure there's always been people that harbored a wish to be the opposite sex, but the amount of them that believed this to be possible and try to fully live in society as the opposite sex had always been a statistical anomaly until recently.

I guess what I'm saying is we need to bring the asylums back. Lock up the truly delusionals, scare off the bandwagon narcissists that dipped their toes into this nonsense.
 
Are TRAs abandoning the whole sex and gender thing? There was another thread on r/ PoliticalCompassMemes where it was about Stanford Medicine's definition of a woman.(Of course it was typical "A woman is anyone who identifies as one") I see TRAs now admitting that sex and gender are different and doing the "Nobody outside Reddit denies that sex is real and that gender is a set of roles and social constructs". What really gets me about this thread is that TRAs are going full retard and being perfectly ok with using a circular definition and claiming that its actually not circular. For example, this comment right here is quoting a philosophy website where they argue that " a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman is not a circular definition."

Screenshot 2025-06-17 101423.webp
 
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You know... I find it ironic that the boys/men most likely to harass and reject tomgirls for being " too manly /looking like a dyke" are usually the ones that end up trooning out. On top of that, they end up flexing their faux femininity to lord over all cis women as the prettiest and yet also the dykiest of princesses.

Eta- I'd accuse these 'girlies' of continuing the very male brained tradition of moving the goalpost and bitching when no one can reach their expectations, but it's a waste of my breath.
TTD.
 
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And principled parents are in a real double bind. What I have seen indicates that if you let the troon hang around as a neet, he is hateful and abusive. If you take a tough love stance and show him the door, he is hateful and abusive. (Or she- pooners are just as bad.) If you take an even harder line and not only show him the door but give him the old grey rock, guess what? Hateful and abusive. Your name will be dragged through the mud. Your extended family and friends will be lobbied and sometimes turned against you outright.

This is 100% true. We're living the nightmare, as described. Only add in an affirming ex-wife, and woke boomer grandparents championing their own grandson's self-destruction. (Sorry for the TMI, but it seems relevant to the discussion in this case.)

There's no easy way to navigate through it. You can:
  1. Play along, and let the affected family member keep deepening their self-delusion, harming their brain & body. Nod as their personality & potential gets vacuumed up into an unbounded black hole of Gender. You can lose all self-respect as you continually, skin-crawlingly, lie to them like everyone else. Paste a smile on your face as the unfolding gender spectacle keeps metastasizing because no one ever puts any checks on it whatsoever. There is virtually no middle ground to negotiate.
  2. Refuse to bow down to the sliding scale of pronoun --> name --> hormones --> surgery tantrums and become instant villains. Even if you were imperfect but decent parents/relatives before, you are retconned, renounced, and excommunicated. Discarded by way of a copypasta email from reddit or the transgender bible. Then, Survivor-style, the trans-id'ed family member forges alliances and assorts everyone in the extended family into enemies or allies. The freshly-minted allies then begin to view the non-affirming side of the family as the enemy too. Crucially, the non-affirming family members also serve as a warning shot to everyone else: acquiesce to my gender demands or you will be eliminated like Dad's side was. Defect at your own risk.
  3. Grey rock, play dumb — you are still the villain, at least potentially. If you matter at all to the family member, you WILL be given a litmus test at some point, and be asked to show your commitment to the lie in one way or another. (This is why the name change is so important, and potentially more important than the pronouns: one can avoid 3rd person pronouns in a face-to-face, but it's harder to avoid names. Even sending a postcard or birthday gift trips the wire.)
Once the process is enacted by the family member, you have very little control. Even with teens who are still in the house, if Mom and Dad aren't on the same page (or are divorced), you have little control. Turning off internet service requires both parents to agree. Taking them to some off-grid foreign destination for a few months requires money & job freedom.

Best case scenario is Mom and Dad are aligned, as are the grandparents and extended family, and able/willing to present a united front. Otherwise, maintaining you own sense of integrity, honesty, and agency is all you really have. Along with hanging on to daily scraps of hope that they will eventually wake up from the cult and come back home.
 
There was another thread on r/ PoliticalCompassMemes where it was about Stanford Medicine's definition of a woman.(Of course it was typical "A woman is anyone who identifies as one")
Link and Archive. If the anecdote that you're treating us to happened recently (in this case a week ago), share the sauce, brother.

I see TRAs now admitting that sex and gender are different and doing the "Nobody outside Reddit denies that sex is real and that gender is a set of roles and social constructs". What really gets me about this thread is that TRAs are going full retard and being perfectly ok with using a circular definition and claiming that its actually not circular. For example, this comment right here is quoting a philosophy website where they argue that a "woman is anyone who identifies as a woman" is not a circular definition.
It's the leftist playbook. They'll use their modified definitions to sculpt peoples opinions of them, such as saying that:
  1. "fascism is inherently right-wing"
  2. "racism = prejudice + power"
  3. "a woman is a social role into which anyone can identify"
The online left is the side that heavily promoted the Political Compass in the first place (because the Nolan Chart put Libertarians in a biased light), and by their own compass, fascists are authoritarian-left. When confronted with the fact that "left" and "right" should now only apply to economic equity vs. economic freedom, they claim that "left" and "right" refer to the wings of the French parliament during the French Revolution, that the revolutionaries sat in the "left wing" and the reactionaries sat in the "right wing".

Racism has always been about being prejudiced towards someone for the color or their skin or their perceived ethnic background, but that definition fits the attitude of the average 21st century African American, and it would be too much cognitive dissonance to admit that black Americans are racist as hell. No, let's narrow down the definition to the same meaning as "systemic racism" and ignore the fact that white people are a global minority.

And they've repurposed/stolen the words "man" and "women" so they can placate the egos of their tranny friends. They've been encroaching on "male/female" too, as you'll see troon activists claim they are "biologically female" and conflate the definition with someone who has taken on a traditionally feminine role in life rather than someone with XX chromosomes, born with vagina/uterus/ovaries. But the moment you suggest that womens' sports or locker rooms should remain "female only", they show you that they know exactly what "female" means and call you a bigot nazi Terflicker.

They cannot agree with centralized definitions amongst themselves, and when they're arguing with "the enemy", you bet your biscuits they will intentionally use two definitions for a single word, changing them out when convenient for their argument. Even in the Reddit thread you screenshotted, they claim that the "Gender Critical" (or normal human fucking being) definition of "woman" is "a human woman" (and would be circular), but the actual definition is the very non-circular and inescapable "adult human female". Leftists and troon simps are fucking snakes with words.
 
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Is there a word for when an argument is difficult to rebut, not because it is a good argument, but because it is so self-evidently retarded that it would just take far too much effort to break down all the ways in which it makes no sense? The closest thing I can think of is the South Park by way of TvTropes concept of the "Chewbacca Defense", which is an argument so absurd and nonsensical that it becomes impossible to properly deconstruct and rebut. This feels similar, but distinct. There is an actual argument here with a clear through line of logic. But it is so stupid that it would be easier to reboot a persons brain and start from scratch than it would be to reason with someone who sincerely thinks this makes sense. And we all know from the failure of the whole "I identify as an attack helicopter" argument that merely pointing out that troon logic leads to absurd scenarios is not an effective debate tactic against troons.
I can think of a good argument to this. Here in my country, adoptive parents aren't treated like biological parents, you couldn't change birth certificate after being adopted, there's no legal sex change for troons either. Which meant what became legally recognised as 'parents' or 'women' is culturally dependent and not universal. Being a transgender is not some innate state.
Why are troons so bad at doing feminine voices?

Kitboga can do it. Why can't they?
Kitboga uses digital voice changer/equalizer, it's not his real voice
 
Is there a word for when an argument is difficult to rebut, not because it is a good argument, but because it is so self-evidently retarded that it would just take far too much effort to break down all the ways in which it makes no sense?
I suppose the easiest term to use here would just be shithousery, as used in football -
disruptive or underhand tactics designed to secure an unfa, ir advantage for one's team.
It's a Russian doll of nesting fallacies. Category errors, false equivocation, begging the question, primed strawmans and ad hominems if you start unpacking them.

Ironically PhilosophyTube's video last year on Judith Butler's discussion of phantasms is a really good explanation of what's at play here (this definition of "phantasm" is informed by the likes of Lacan). You've got a subjectivity which informs how you understand yourself and the world around you. When you encounter things that contradict this way of understanding yourself and the world, this can cause anxiety because it challenges your fundamental understanding, which is really stressful to unpack. For example, if you believe "saying trans women aren't women is transphobic, and transphobes are evil" but then start finding yourself peaking, you might start completely disengaging with the peaking content because you're questioning if these things are actually "transphobic" or if holding these beliefs are "evil", which you understand to be an evil pattern of thought and also conflicts with your understanding of your own social identity of being an "ally" and fearful of social penalties for losing that identity. This is not necessarily fully conscious and has been termed "doxastic anxiety". This group identity has knock on impacts - someone you know peaking can threaten your belief, and therefore your understanding of the world; Thomas Harper explains it well;
Once people have conceptualized person S as being A, and then person S rejects A, then those around them must go through the trouble of reconceptualizing that person. In order to simplify matters, it is not uncommon for those around person S to conclude that person S was never actually an A in the first place. Not only does this make reconceptualizing person S easier – you can make retrodictions incorporating person S‘s past actions that appeared as if they were genuinely A into the schema of them having never been A – but it also makes it easier for someone to maintain their own belief in A. When S goes from accepting A to rejecting A, this acts as a threat to the belief in A for R, the other adherents of A. The motivated reasoning goes: if S rejects A, then there must be some compelling reason not to believe in A; however, R believe in A, which in-itself acts as a justificatory condition for believing in A, and so S must not have ever believed in A in the first place; therefore, R is justified in continuing to believe in A.
In other words, rather than accepting that JK Rowling had some valid points, people reacted negatively and recharacterised her as always having been a fake ally evil witch. The link above also goes into doxastic conservatism, in other words "I believe in this, which is a justification for continuing to believe in it". But essentially, if someone handles this sort of anxiety badly, they'll look to keep themselves into a curated bubble (easier than ever thanks to social media).

Anyway, that only works when you're not forced to engage with things that are directly contradictory to your beliefs. Where things that contradict your subjectivity happen, you might look for a sort of ego defence. This is where the phantasm comes in. You're not able to handle that information, so instead you revert to an emotional based reasoning system. You say something that isn't true and that doesn't make sense, and you don't even believe it when you first say it, but it feels like it being true would validate how you're feeling, and therefore you come to believe it is true... even when it doesn't hold up to any logical scrutiny whatsoever. The fact it doesn't make sense empowers the belief, because thinking critically about it brings back that anxiety, and things that give you anxiety must be wrong... so therefore the belief must be correct. This can also allow you to start absorbing other irrational ideas that sort of relate to your belief, because that reinforces your initial belief (which feels good, so is true) and challenging things relating to your initial belief causes you anxiety (which feels bad, so is false).

The examples Ollie and Judith Butler give are to do with displaced anxiety about capitalism manifesting as believing conspiracy theories about 15 minute cities and gender critical ideology. But you can draw a parallel with something like trans ideology; "I am isolated and lonely and people on the internet are saying I'm an egg" -> "I'm an egg, I need to transition, that's why I'm isolated and lonely" -> "I've transitioned, but I still feel isolated and lonely because people don't view me as a real woman" -> "I am a real woman, people who disagree are TERFs who want to hurt me". A big part of the discourse around phantasms is "I feel" becomes "I am", so "I feel under attack when a person doesn't accept me as a 100% biological woman" becomes "I am under attack when a person doesn't accept me as a 100% biological woman". Assertions are also disguised demands -> "There is no such thing as biological sex" really means "I demand you pretend there is no such thing as biological sex".

This is why arguing with people like this becomes so infuriating. The viewpoint is not just irrational but anti-rational. They will get defensive and dismissive towards anyone trying to reason them out of their irrational bubble, and will happily spew contradictory nonsensical arguments that hold up to no logical scrutiny because they are relying on purely emotional reasoning (whatever I'm saying makes me feel good so is correct, whatever they're saying makes me feel bad so is incorrect).
 
My theory is:

Kitboga is not trying to convince you that hes a woman, so he doesnt force this voice.
He only needs it to be good enough to fool the scammer on the phone, so he only talks with a high pitch filter.

He doesnt really sound like a woman, but he sounds natural because hes not trying to fake as much.

Troons on the other hand they force their voice(voice training), specially since in real life they don't have filters to make their voice pitch higher.

Also, in many cases troons try to imitate women from porn, so they try to talk in a way thats "seductive" which in real life no woman outside of porn talks like that, ends up being even more unnatural and uncanny.
I don't think Kitboga necessarily needs a high pitch filter to be believable on the phone. I'm pretty sure he isn't using one in the video I linked, though I can't prove it.

I would agree that talking on the phone is really destructive to audio quality, but we do get to listen to Kit's side of the convo, not that of the guy he's calling, so we get to hear him better. IDK, I just think it's funny that a hetero male confidence trickster / improv artist can affect a better girl voice than 75% of the troons who want to live in that voice, grow distressed and hateful of their male voice, etc.

Kitboga uses digital voice changer/equalizer, it's not his real voice
I agree that he uses them, but I don't think it's an absolute necessity. A lot of Kit's female voice is just like, word choice and cadence? Just lilt more and inflect up at the end of the sentence? Use the Grampa Simpson hack to access a Shmorky voice and then just use feminine grammar and word choices, I mean, that should get you like 80% there right?
 
It's a Russian doll of nesting fallacies. Category errors, false equivocation, begging the question, primed strawmans and ad hominems if you start unpacking them.
How the fuck did the left go from, "lmao, religion is so stupid, I reject it because I am smart and logical and understand science :smug:" to whatever the hell this is in such a short amount of time. This sort of anti rational reasoning is the sort of thing that used to be the domain of religious fundamentalists. Not normal Christians mind you, more like weird Fred Phelps types.
 
For example, this comment right here is quoting a philosophy website where they argue that " a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman is not a circular definition."
What troons are uncomfortable with accepting is that how they define actually a women is always going to be misogynistic because they are the ones enforcing gender roles here. "gender affirming care" is deemed as essential to them and it's just either botched top and bottom surgeries or plastic surgery for your face to be more "feminine" or "masculine" thus reinforcing the insecurities women with non-white (culturally masculine) features have and gives the implication that to be a women you MUST have these features. Troons are obviously going to be made uncomfortable from this point because they aren't the biggest victim in the conversation and have to think about their dangerous stereotyping and horrible lifestyle.
 
I used to dislike the term "transphobia". I figured, I'm not scared of them, like an arachnophobe is scared of spiders or an agoraphobe is scared of going outside, I just don't like them.

But then I got into an argument with a proglodyte on Reddit (cringe, gay, I know) who explained to me that the classic psychological definition of a phobia as 'an unreasonable fear of something' wasn't really the only possible root of the word- it could just as easily mean 'a strong aversion'.

They brought up the use of the term in other scientific contexts- for example, oil does not mix with water because it is hydrophobic. Water does not mix with oil because it is oleophobic.

So I really was a heckin transphobe after all. I was annoyed, but I couldn't disagree with them.

And the more I've thought about it, the more I think they were right, that "transphobic" is a great and apt term, when you look at it that way.

I am simply extremely repelled by them, will not readily mingle with them; when placed into a common space I naturally gravitate away from them.

So, I'm transphobic. Sure. I'm "phobic" toward trannies in the way that water is "phobic" toward oil.

What's the problem?
Of course, you don’t even have to be repulsed by troons to be dubbed a transphobe these days. Just not toeing the line closely enough.
Are TRAs abandoning the whole sex and gender thing? There was another thread on r/ PoliticalCompassMemes where it was about Stanford Medicine's definition of a woman.(Of course it was typical "A woman is anyone who identifies as one") I see TRAs now admitting that sex and gender are different and doing the "Nobody outside Reddit denies that sex is real and that gender is a set of roles and social constructs". What really gets me about this thread is that TRAs are going full retard and being perfectly ok with using a circular definition and claiming that it’s actually not circular. For example, this comment right here is quoting a philosophy website where they argue that " a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman is not a circular definition."

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This is fine if you take it purely as a philosophical exercise, but it’s not much use in the real world. I think this is a reflection of how much of troon culture is a purely online thing. It doesn’t matter what “a woman” is if your identity as such is primarily an online avatar.

It’s not much use if you’re writing a healthcare policy, though.
 
What troons are uncomfortable with accepting is that how they define actually a women is always going to be misogynistic because they are the ones enforcing gender roles here. "gender affirming care" is deemed as essential to them and it's just either botched top and bottom surgeries or plastic surgery for your face to be more "feminine" or "masculine" thus reinforcing the insecurities women with non-white (culturally masculine) features have and gives the implication that to be a women you MUST have these features. Troons are obviously going to be made uncomfortable from this point because they aren't the biggest victim in the conversation and have to think about their dangerous stereotyping and horrible lifestyle.
I've seen comments by TRAs in the Reddit link above that they also keep using the "Just because something is outside the binary doesn't mean that trans women aren't women." This argument was in response to people arguing with them about the women who don't follow sexist stereotypes and don't like makeup, wearing dresses, etc. To TRAs, being a woman has nothing to do with any sexist stereotypes...until a trans woman needs them to affirm "her" gender then that's proof that "shes" a woman. Again, this is why I can never take the whole "outside the binary" thing seriously because TRAs have set up the definition of woman to where its something that can't be defined except for how the individual sees themselves. It creates an unfalsifiable meaning that proves nothing.
How the fuck did the left go from, "lmao, religion is so stupid, I reject it because I am smart and logical and understand science :smug:" to whatever the hell this is in such a short amount of time. This sort of anti rational reasoning is the sort of thing that used to be the domain of religious fundamentalists. Not normal Christians mind you, more like weird Fred Phelps types.
It really is amazing how the same people who are quick to point out the contradictions with the concept of God can't point to the contradictions with gender. The left would quickly use an argument like "How can God be both transcendent and immanent?" to point out the contradictions, but when you point out the contradictions with transgenderism like above, it doesn't invalidate the trans experience because they are allowed to be "outside the binary". I'm wondering if religious people can use the same TRA argument with God and say "Just because God can be both transcendent and immanent doesn't contradict anything because God isn't part of the binary system". What's really crazy is that TRAs have set the definition of woman up to where nobody can falsify it. A woman is basically how the individual sees it. If TIMs follow the stereotypes associated with women then that affirms their gender, but also, "cis" women who don't follow those stereotypes are still women because makeup, dresses, etc don't define womanhood.
 
How the fuck did the left go from, "lmao, religion is so stupid, I reject it because I am smart and logical and understand science :smug:" to whatever the hell this is in such a short amount of time. This sort of anti rational reasoning is the sort of thing that used to be the domain of religious fundamentalists. Not normal Christians mind you, more like weird Fred Phelps types.
When someone is that smug they tend to think they are right no matter what. They think their own shit doesn't stink like the people they laugh at, and become absolute hypocrites in their beliefs (if not already there)

Thread tax: How much does upbringing play a role in someone trooning out? I noticed patterns such as unstable homes, apathetic parents, free-reign on the internet, but it's always something that makes me wonder.
 
When someone is that smug they tend to think they are right no matter what. They think their own shit doesn't stink like the people they laugh at, and become absolute hypocrites in their beliefs (if not already there)

Thread tax: How much does upbringing play a role in someone trooning out? I noticed patterns such as unstable homes, apathetic parents, free-reign on the internet, but it's always something that makes me wonder.
Short answer, but I believe that the people who go the nonbinary snowflake never transitioning route just had very liberal parents (or they're rebeling against conservative parents.) The truetrans types seem to have had more turbulent home lives. Both will die on the "you can never criticize trans people" hill but with different motivations. Of course, there are exceptions, but most seem to fall into one or possibly even both categories.

Source: Simply talking to these people for a long time.
 
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