Off-Topic Random Trans Thoughts, Musings, and Questions - For all your armchair psych and general sperging

[Cat Funt]

lol ok

 

[Jacques1194]

Maybe I asked these two questions before but how do TRAs argue about the people who've transition later in life and didn't have any suicidal thoughts until the person "discovered" that they were trans? The argument I hear is that "kids will die if they don't get gender affirming care" so how did the people who've transitioned later in life survive their teenager years? Also, if a person didn't have any suicidal thoughts before this discovery then doesn't that mean the language of "you will die if you dont get gender affirming care" is what's causing this "epidemic of trans kids suicides"? This sounds more like a case of believing that you're trans is what's causing these kids to threaten to kill themselves rather than actually being born in the wrong body. Not that TRAs would care.

 

[Albicilla]

Maybe I asked these two questions before but how do TRAs argue about the people who've transition later in life and didn't have any suicidal thoughts until the person "discovered" that they were trans? The argument I hear is that "kids will die if they don't get gender affirming care" so how did the people who've transitioned later in life survive their teenager years? Also, if a person didn't have any suicidal thoughts before this discovery then doesn't that mean the language of "you will die if you dont get gender affirming care" is what's causing this "epidemic of trans kids suicides"? This sounds more like a case of believing that you're trans is what's causing these kids to threaten to kill themselves rather than actually being born in the wrong body. Not that TRAs would care.

Main guess is it's because trans people are heterogenous. Back then, most of the people transitioning really would have high level of distress pre transition, because no one knew what transitioning was, including those people, until they let's say...presented in therapy with gender related distress. Nowadays, there's more awareness and access, so people that might not have dysphoria at a high measure -- or at all -- end up transitioning for varying reasons. A lot of older people that transition later did have wishes to be the opposite sex or to feminise/masculinise, but they were able to live out relatively fulfilling lives up until that point, because transitioning isn't necessary for those people. The availability makes them able to act on their desires.

That's the flaw with a lot of these arguments: back then, trans people were largely transitioning for one reason due to obscurity and gatekeeping, now there are many people and many motivations that make up transitioners. There should probably be separation between dysphorics and non/sub threshold dysphorics. Honestly, if they really want to maintain access to transition legally, it'd be best to make an appeal to one's natural rights (bodily autonomy/freedom of expression) rather than something contentious and disprovable (medical necessity/gender identity; as well as it not being something broadly applicable to all trans people). There are many trans people that hold the former point of view, but the latter type doesn't want to cede their linguistic minutiae and other bizarre things in order to have a stronger and more withstanding argument for the right to this type of body modification.

This is probably partly due to them taking "man" and "woman" and seeing judgements contained within them, when they're simply meant to be descriptors, thereby creating more restrictive ideas on gender. It's something one can respect about the trans people (in this case, like, taking oestrogen) that identify as femboys and girlboys and often still use "he": they recognise that male femininity isn't inferior, and that femininity isn't incongruent with maleness. And this is partly why, in addition to insecurity, you have a large part of the trans community that despises them and sees their self-expression as a steppingstone to being a transwoman as well as displaying visceral disgust at the femboy/girlboy being unapologetically male.

You're probably right in that the irresponsible talk about suicidality is actually making trans people and children who think they might be trans suicidal or more suicidal. Iirc, if you speak about suicide in a certain way or report on it without certain considerations, it can cause a large uptick in suicides. It was observed in Japan before the media curtailed their reporting on completed suicides. I also recall either the American Suicidology Association or the American Psychiatric Association a few years ago during pride month calling on TRA and LGBT organisations to be more responsible with their rhetoric around suicides, criticising these organisations for speaking in ways known to increase suicidality. I've also seen many times within insular LGBT spaces where one beloved LGBT person commits suicide, it's reported in a sensationalist way, it makes it's rounds in the community, and many people within said community kill themselves the same week. Suicide can absolutely be contagious.

 

[Hellhammer]

I think troon fashion is quite fascinating. On one hand, you have TIMs who seem to get their fashion sense from onlyfans xitter thirst traps, and some who want to dress like old ladies for whatever reason. Age typically does play a factor as to where they are on the way they dress, but I’ve noticed it’s older TIMs who mimic the old lady/tradwife/cottagecore whatever style. I really can never tell a troon apart from the next when I see them out in public, it’s all the same hairy man in a dress.

TIFs are a little different, they don’t seem to make as much of an effort as TIMs when it comes to dressing the part - many TIFs love wearing crop tops and push-up bras, stereotypically feminine clothing and makeup and cry when you misgender them. Usually from there they all just look like pre teen boys or butch lesbians, or have that weird early/mid 2010s tumblr kid look. Think Anonymous Asexual.

There’s definitely more to say but you get the gist.

 

[Aunt Carol]

I also recall either the American Suicidology Association or the American Psychiatric Association a few years ago during pride month calling on TRA and LGBT organisations to be more responsible with their rhetoric around suicides, criticising these organisations for speaking in ways known to increase suicidality.

If you could find this again, I think a lot of people would be interested in seeing it.

Anyone who lived through the 1990s remembers it being common knowledge that eating disorders and cutting and even suicide had an element of social contagion. There was even explicit advice not to over-publicize teen suicides.

And then we had the same guidance counselors turn around and inform a new crop of kids that they were going to kill themselves if they didn't get everything they wanted.

 

[IsaACKRepentance]

Random thought when shooting the shit with my friends: If we rounded up all the BlueSky and Redditors. Would we be able to coexist with the remaining troons?

Or is TTD an inevitability? I personally think Trannies in general are a bit of an affront but Redditor/BlueSky behavior is probably why most of them are so insufferable.

I guess it's a question of: Are they insufferable because of social media, or are they insufferable because they're trannies?

 

[Lovely Kin]

Random thought when shooting the shit with my friends: If we rounded up all the BlueSky and Redditors. Would we be able to coexist with the remaining troons?

Or is TTD an inevitability? I personally think Trannies in general are a bit of an affront but Redditor/BlueSky behavior is probably why most of them are so insufferable.

No, troons don't want to coexist peacefully without one trying to groom a new victim, minors and/or socially awkward spergs. I am very skeptical and still upset about a group of troons taking my ex-friend away and encouraging him to troon out. Even in a perfect world, I will still hold plenty of resentment and hurt about my friend who was corrupted. They are very insufferable people as well. Anyone who has worked with a troon has said they suck the life out of the room, and bitch constantly, trying to be the main character.. Everyone gets relieved when the troon finally quits as well, since they don't last long either.

 

[Aunt Carol]

Or is TTD an inevitability? I personally think Trannies in general are a bit of an affront but Redditor/BlueSky behavior is probably why most of them are so insufferable.

I guess it's a question of: Are they insufferable because of social media, or are they insufferable because they're trannies?

This goes back to what @Albicilla just posted: there used to be comparatively few trans people. They were only the very motivated/very distressed ones and they used a medical model for their treatment both medically and socially/legally. Now with low barriers, and so much to gain, someone who's "trans" now could be doing it for any reason under the umbrella, and with very little effort to join the group.

The social media troons are happy to be "in the right" and to use any ToS or law in their quiver to punish someone who disagrees with them, but they act exactly like a stripey-sock flavor of the old online atheists, or the SJWs pre-troonery. Ever-changing terminology, circular firing squads; I think it's more that the troons are highlighting a tendency of social media to build its own power structure, and it's happening at a time that the real world and the corporate-run Internet are becoming inexorably enmeshed.

 

[Doktor Grimm]

There should probably be separation between dysphorics and non/sub threshold dysphorics.

I mean, ostensibly there is -- you still need a diagnosis of gender dysphoria to take hormones on taxpayers' dime in most developed countries. The issue is that the signs are embarrassingly vague and fail to really add up to anything. All it really takes is six months of wishing you were the opposite sex, whatever that means.

Even if you were to police things harder, though, on what criteria could you distinguish a "real" dysphoric from a fake one, especially now that the cat's out of the bag and everyone can Google up a handy checklist of symptoms? Many straight AGP types do experience genuine discomfort with their sexed characteristics, often moreso than the naturally-effeminate neurotic homos to whom the "true transsexual" label allegedly applies (this is pretty much a new invention, btw; Ray Blanchard recommended that autogynephiles transition in the 80s, and they were doing it for a long time beforehand). So you can't really use gender-related distress as a metric. Age-of-onset is dubious and easy to misconstrue/make up entirely, so that's out of the question too.

Not accusing you of anything, but I get the sense that when people talk about separating "dysphorics" and "non-dysphorics", they really mean palatable trannies i.e. passing/semi-passing femfags who already seem a little strange as men, and unpalatable trannies i.e. Reddit atheists turned transbian beasts of righteous honrage. Dysphoria doesn't mean anything, really; it's a state of mind you can stumble into from an infinite number of angles.

There could be some merit to transsexuality as a condition distinct from GD. It's got nothing to do with having an opposite-sex brain, though.

Honestly, if they really want to maintain access to transition legally, it'd be best to make an appeal to one's natural rights (bodily autonomy/freedom of expression) rather than something contentious and disprovable (medical necessity/gender identity; as well as it not being something broadly applicable to all trans people).

Nobody's going to believe that now; the category is tainted. Not that it was ever really about bodily autonomy in the first place.

You're probably right in that the irresponsible talk about suicidality is actually making trans people and children who think they might be trans suicidal or more suicidal. Iirc, if you speak about suicide in a certain way or report on it without certain considerations, it can cause a large uptick in suicides.

You can see it in real time when they happen. There was that TF2 modder who jumped from a bridge in Portland or whereverthehell and /lgbt/ was flooded with suicide posts for weeks after.

I actually respect how the Sharty kids responded to that one, even if it was pretty horrible in a vacuum. It's probably the first time that particular narrative has been countered on such a large scale -- "no, you won't be a martyr, we're going to tape soyjaks to your memorial site and make fun of how you didn't pass". The best way to stop teenagers from roping is to make it desperately uncool.

 

[Lovely Kin]

When it comes to "supportive" parents after their adult son/daughter troon out, how much do you think it's genuine or coping with what happened to their child?

 

[neu]

Not accusing you of anything, but I get the sense that when people talk about separating "dysphorics" and "non-dysphorics", they really mean palatable trannies i.e. passing/semi-passing femfags who already seem a little strange as men, and unpalatable trannies i.e. Reddit atheists turned transbian beasts of righteous honrage.

I'm really not sure what criteria you'd even base it on since I don't exactly know if it's even feasible to accurately fit every tranny into one category or the other. It's just easy to operate under the assumption that trannies mostly fit either the stereotype of the person who's always exhibited 'signs' or the person who did it purely out of deviancy and social contagion but I feel that at least now, the majority has to be somewhere in between.

/lgbt/ was flooded with suicide posts for weeks after

I remember years ago someone on there killed themselves, not before making a post announcing it of course, and in the following weeks there was an influx of posts from people looking to replicate the method they used to do it. Funny that nothing's changed.

I actually respect how the Sharty kids responded to that one, even if it was pretty horrible in a vacuum.

Yeah, it kind of had to happen even if on paper, it's sad and it does suck that that kid got groomed. Trannies egg each other on to commit suicide all the time and make being a whiny depressed loser part of their culture. The best thing that can happen is people stop taking them seriously and maybe they'll want to do something better with their lives.

 

[Lain The Tranny Beater]

When it comes to "supportive" parents after their adult son/daughter troon out, how much do you think it's genuine or coping with what happened to their child?

It’s definitely a big cope. Clearly a lot of these trannies will start chimping out and blasting your shit online. Forever ago in the thread, it was mentioned, there was a chic that dragged her family through the wringer over saying ‘no’. Like socially, emotionally, and financially—she even took them to court multiple times. It was so bad her dad discharged himself to Jesus Christ directly.

These trannies are literal social menaces. These parents literally disappear from online instantly. The amount of troons blasting their parents on twitter is fucking insane, and everyone knows the feeding frenzy they go into.

 

[Continuum Transfunctioner]

I mean, ostensibly there is -- you still need a diagnosis of gender dysphoria to take hormones on taxpayers' dime in most developed countries.

A tranny I knew just walked into a planned parenthood and walked out with a perscription of 'titty skittles' in America. It's insane

 

[Summertime]

If trannies were pinocchio, would they have record-breaking long noses?

 

[Albicilla]

Even if you were to police things harder, though, on what criteria could you distinguish a "real" dysphoric from a fake one, especially now that the cat's out of the bag and everyone can Google up a handy checklist of symptoms? Many straight AGP types do experience genuine discomfort with their sexed characteristics, often moreso than the naturally-effeminate neurotic homos to whom the "true transsexual" label allegedly applies (this is pretty much a new invention, btw; Ray Blanchard recommended that autogynephiles transition in the 80s, and they were doing it for a long time beforehand). So you can't really use gender-related distress as a metric. Age-of-onset is dubious and easy to misconstrue/make up entirely, so that's out of the question too.

Not accusing you of anything, but I get the sense that when people talk about separating "dysphorics" and "non-dysphorics", they really mean palatable trannies i.e. passing/semi-passing femfags who already seem a little strange as men, and unpalatable trannies i.e. Reddit atheists turned transbian beasts of righteous honrage. Dysphoria doesn't mean anything, really; it's a state of mind you can stumble into from an infinite number of angles.

Oh, I know that; autogynephilic transexuals are more often the types that get reassignment surgery. What I meant is having a clearer delineation if one was to get it covered as a medical condition, but aslo, so that people can actually distinguish between different groups of people in the conversation, since TRAs, ambivalent people, and anti-trans alike make sweeping generalisations on a group of people with poorly defined characteristics. This is probably unpopular on the kiwifarms, but I'm pro "trans rights" insofar as being pro bodily autonomy, so I think people should have the right to make the choice to take hormones and get certain surgeries --- the caveat being not on my dime. If there's no demands made past that, I'm cool. You are right though in that people can just figure out how to malinger, and a good care team would probably have to find corroborating evidence within that person's life to support a diagnosis, a task much more difficult now than back then. You're also right in that "trutrans" people essentially act as pickmes in order to protect themselves without realising that they're digging their own graves even further being only a few degrees separated from the less appealing trans people.

I actually respect how the Sharty kids responded to that one, even if it was pretty horrible in a vacuum. It's probably the first time that particular narrative has been countered on such a large scale -- "no, you won't be a martyr, we're going to tape soyjaks to your memorial site and make fun of how you didn't pass". The best way to stop teenagers from roping is to make it desperately uncool.

It's kind of like school shootings: continue to sensationalise every single one, and some deranged, attention-seeking teen will commit another one. Or with anorexic and self-harm spaces.

@Aunt Carol I'll try to find the posts; it's just a matter of remembering which out of three different possible organisations made the call out and what year the tweets were made, unfortunately.

 

[Lovely Kin]

If trannies were pinocchio, would they have record-breaking long noses?

Not only would they have record breaking long noses, but their noses would be shattered or ingrown with how much they lie to themselves.

 

[Wallace]

That's the flaw with a lot of these arguments: back then, trans people were largely transitioning for one reason due to obscurity and gatekeeping, now there are many people and many motivations that make up transitioners. There should probably be separation between dysphorics and non/sub threshold dysphorics. Honestly, if they really want to maintain access to transition legally, it'd be best to make an appeal to one's natural rights (bodily autonomy/freedom of expression) rather than something contentious and disprovable (medical necessity/gender identity; as well as it not being something broadly applicable to all trans people). There are many trans people that hold the former point of view, but the latter type doesn't want to cede their linguistic minutiae and other bizarre things in order to have a stronger and more withstanding argument for the right to this type of body modification.

It's tough because the definition of "dysphoria" has grown so broad as to encompass social anxiety, especially as it relates to puberty, or even any sort of gender non-conforming behavior, or even frustrated sexual desire. By that definition, I would have had dysphoria when I was 12. IMO, dysphoria is more a state of incongruence; when you look at yourself in the mirror and don't recognize yourself.

 

[Uzumaki]

It's tough because the definition of "dysphoria" has grown so broad as to encompass social anxiety, especially as it relates to puberty, or even any sort of gender non-conforming behavior, or even frustrated sexual desire

Dysphoria just means “GRUG FEEL BAD”and euphoria “GRUG FEEL GOOD”. Using unnecessarily academic language doesn’t change the fact that they have the personal philosophy of a literal fucking earthworm.

 

[Jacques1194]

One thing I can't stand about TRAs is the sheer narcissism in thinking that trans people understand gender and that because I'm "cis" that I'll never understand it or not yet at least. For example, this TIF goes on a huge rant about how if you think TIFs can't be lesbians that you're a TERF and that actual queer people understand gender and sexuality on levels that we "cis" people don't. These people get off on authority and the perception that they are experts, along with snidely lecturing others and making them feel stupid. Its the sheer narcissism in thinking they have all the answers and have super unique brains that can understand gender and we're all a bunch of idiots who haven't understand it yet.

 

[Idiot Sandwich the 3rd]

One thing I can't stand about TRAs is the sheer narcissism in thinking that trans people understand gender and that because I'm "cis" that I'll never understand it or not yet at least. For example, this TIF goes on a huge rant about how if you think TIFs can't be lesbians that you're a TERF and that actual queer people understand gender and sexuality on levels that we "cis" people don't. These people get off on authority and the perception that they are experts, along with snidely lecturing others and making them feel stupid. Its the sheer narcissism in thinking they have all the answers and have super unique brains that can understand gender and we're all a bunch of idiots who haven't understand it yet.
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Of course they would understand the concept of "gender" more than those cisgender normies. They're the ones that made it up in the first place!
And when we ask what it even means they keep saying "urm, is not my job to educate you bigot" or they just keep changing the meaning of their own words for convenience