Retro games and emulation - Discuss retro shit in case you're stuck in the past or a hipster

[Captain Quazar]

Does anyone else realize the fact that the N64 has very few shoot ‘em ups? I don’t mean FPSs. Here’s a list of the ones that I know of.

- Star Fox 64
- Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth
- Sin & Punishment
- Aero Fighters Assault
- Dezaemon 3D (more of a shmup maker but it includes a few built-in ones as samples)
- Knife Edge: Nose Gunner
- Viewpoint 2064 (unreleased)

 

[Samuel Fuller]

Does anyone else realize the fact that the N64 has very few shoot ‘em ups? I don’t mean FPSs. Here’s a list of the ones that I know of.

- Star Fox 64
- Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth
- Sin & Punishment
- Aero Fighters Assault
- Dezaemon 3D (more of a shmup maker but it includes a few built-in ones as samples)
- Knife Edge: Nose Gunner
- Viewpoint 2064 (unreleased)

Because the machine was a slow piece of shit that didn't have the ability to handle sprites well.

What is the common feature of all those games you listed? They used polygonal graphics instead of sprites.

Another factor is that the Saturn's sister arcade system, the Titan, was actually the platform most of the SHMUPs released around that period were made for and porting from Saturn to anything else was too painful for the sales an N64 port might possibly bring in. Saturn outsold the N64 in Japan by a good margin.

 

[Baraka Obama]

Does anyone else realize the fact that the N64 has very few shoot ‘em ups? I don’t mean FPSs. Here’s a list of the ones that I know of.

- Star Fox 64
- Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth
- Sin & Punishment
- Aero Fighters Assault
- Dezaemon 3D (more of a shmup maker but it includes a few built-in ones as samples)
- Knife Edge: Nose Gunner
- Viewpoint 2064 (unreleased)

It has very few RPGs, fighting games, strategy games, beat 'em ups, puzzle, and adventure games too.

Most of those were just seen as dead genres in the move to 3D in the late 90s. RPGs are an exception, that made a better move to 3D but along the way did so more with heavy use of FMVs which needed CDs.

 

[Jason_Cruiser]

Does anyone else realize the fact that the N64 has very few shoot ‘em ups? I don’t mean FPSs. Here’s a list of the ones that I know of.

- Star Fox 64
- Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth
- Sin & Punishment
- Aero Fighters Assault
- Dezaemon 3D (more of a shmup maker but it includes a few built-in ones as samples)
- Knife Edge: Nose Gunner
- Viewpoint 2064 (unreleased)

Even though the 5th gen was still strong on shmups, they were a dying genre at that point. The games still coming out were quite low-budget, and the few high-budget shmups being released did poorly in comparison to the budget (Thunder Force V). Nintendo was strict on the minimum number of games you had to manufacture, and the cost per unit was like $20(disks were only a few). Aside from the worse profit margins per sale, the strict batch limits made it much more likley to have unsold stock lying around, making the n64 unviable for low-budget games that might only make around 50-80k in sales. You also have to remember where the N64 was popular. Shmups were mostly a Jap phenomenon, and the N64 was the worst-selling console of its generation in Japan.

 

[Captain Quazar]

RPGs are an exception, that made a better move to 3D but along the way did so more with heavy use of FMVs which needed CDs.

At least two of the N64’s few RPGs, Paper Mario and Ogre Battle 64, are actually really legit great. Quest 64 is rather doo doo from what I’ve heard.

Because the machine was a slow piece of shit that didn't have the ability to handle sprites well.

What is the common feature of all those games you listed? They used polygonal graphics instead of sprites.

Hmm, didn’t know that the N64 sucked at handling many sprites. Now that I think about it, it would be interesting to see what 2D N64 games like Mischief Makers would be like if they utilized polygons instead of sprites. That game is really underrated.

 

[Samuel Fuller]

At least two of the N64’s few RPGs, Paper Mario and Ogre Battle 64, are actually really legit great. Quest 64 is rather doo doo from what I’ve heard.


Hmm, didn’t know that the N64 sucked at handling many sprites. Now that I think about it, it would be interesting to see what 2D N64 games like Mischief Makers would be like if they utilized polygons instead of sprites. That game is really underrated.

Nintendo used a CPU designed by Silicon Graphics, Incorporated. SGI had no interest in 2D anything, so the chip wasn't made for it. Nintendo forced a lower clock speed on the chip vs the original design to be able to make them cheaper due to less binning occurring on a slower chip.

Put those two factors together, and you are not going to get much 2D content made. Most of the games with 2-dimensional gameplay were made using 3D assets on the system, and the shit clock speed is why so many N64 games can't ever reliably hit 20 FPS, let alone anything close to fluidity. It's hilarious that even putting the stripped-out half of the RAM back via the Expansion PAk only seemed to make things even worse on most of the games that could support it.

The N64's hardware was just complete garbage.

 

[Captain Quazar]

Most of the games with 2-dimensional gameplay were made using 3D assets on the system, and the shit clock speed is why so many N64 games can't ever reliably hit 20 FPS, let alone anything close to fluidity.

F-Zero X is one of those rare cases where it runs pretty darn smoothly on the N64 though. I am genuinely curious as to how it runs so good for N64 standards.

The N64's hardware was just complete garbage.

Yeah, it may have been, but I just love a good chunk of the games on it anyway.

It's hilarious that even putting the stripped-out half of the RAM back via the Expansion PAk only seemed to make things even worse on most of the games that could support it.

Yep, you would get widescreen and higher quality texture options, but even worse framerates as a result. You were better off just not using those features unless you wanted to experiment I guess.

Also regarding the Expansion Pak, I read that Donkey Kong 64 can technically be played without it via a bit of tinkering. I wonder if that applies to Majora’s Mask and the full Perfect Dark experience as well.

 

[Samuel Fuller]

F-Zero X is one of those rare cases where it runs pretty darn smoothly on the N64 though. I am genuinely curious as to how it runs so good for N64 standards.


Yeah, it may have been, but I just love a good chunk of the games on it anyway.


Yep, you would get widescreen and higher quality texture options, but even worse framerates as a result. You were better off just not using those features unless you wanted to experiment I guess.

Also regarding the Expansion Pak, I read that Donkey Kong 64 can technically be played without it via a bit of tinkering. I wonder if that applies to Majora’s Mask and the full Perfect Dark experience as well.

Majora’s Mask and Perfect Dark absolutely require the expanded RAM.

F-Zero X runs as smoothly as it does because the graphics are extremely streamlined. Shaded polygons and almost no textures, and the ships have as few as six surfaces. The game is basically pushing very simple boxes around the map.

 

[Captain Quazar]

Majora’s Mask and Perfect Dark absolutely require the expanded RAM.

F-Zero X runs as smoothly as it does because the graphics are extremely streamlined. Shaded polygons and almost no textures, and the ships have as few as six surfaces. The game is basically pushing very simple boxes around the map.

I’m guessing that for Majora’s Mask, it’s mainly in regards to the whole three day system stuff, right?

Nintendo made the right call going simple for F-Zero X then. For a series about high speed futuristic racing it better darn well run fast. I still need to get around to F-Zero GX/AX one day. AX can be played on GameCube and Wii via homebrew stuff, but I don’t really do that kind of stuff personally.