Retro games and emulation - Discuss retro shit in case you're stuck in the past or a hipster

[Cavalier Cipolla]

I have zero idea what the hell is wrong with the Twin Snakes production especifically but disc rot is so stupidly common (particularly on disc 1) that the price of it is starting to slowly climb up.

Skies of Arcadia and the version of Mario Kart with the bonus demo disc are other games that suffer from this, which really stinks as all three of these were already expensive before they started self destroying themselves.

Would putting a disc in a vacuum chamber stop the disc rot? It has occurred to me that could be a solution since it would react with the air, if the reaction with air is the cause.

 

[XMassAllYearRound]

Would putting a disc in a vacuum chamber stop the disc rot? It has occurred to me that could be a solution since it would react with the air, if the reaction with air is the cause.

The idea has crossed my mind but I've only ever tried with pressure based protection as I collect PS1 and music CD's where this is a real issue; I've tried ziploc bags, tupperware and even a foodsaver once.

I haven't tried with a proper vacuum container for two reasons; It's really hard to get the proper pieces/kits to do it around here (At least if you wat to do it with glass or plastic) and honestly I find that once disc rot sets in you may as well throw the disc into the blender as the problem is directly correlated as to how the disc was produced.

Allow me to explain the reason with this highly scientific image that I made in paint

In optical media there are always at least two layers, a protective layer and a data layer, the protective layer is usually a bit bigger than the data layer (You can even see it sticking out with the naked eye) so in theory discs should be completely immune to oxygen and other atmospheric pollutants coming in to ruin the data layer, in practice, however, there are a couple of issues with the manufacturing of the discs, most of them are made with polycarbonate plastic pellets used as a protective layer that may have small bubbles, some of them were treated with ultraviolet light while the material used to make them was still hot and others simply have a protective layer that is too thin or poorly applied. All of these issues cause small air pockets where the pollutants can come in and start eating away at the data layer.

While in a vacuum these air pockets cause the oxygen and other pollutants within the disc to still be present and eating away at the data layer despite pollutants around the disc having been completely removed, which, depending on the pollutants that may have gotten inside (Disc cleaning solutions IMMEDIATELY come to mind) may actually accelerate the process.

You can see an example of what I'm talking about with food preservation below

(TL;DW food in vacuums may go bad faster than in jars because water and air contained within the food is still present despite all air around them having being drained)

TL;DR: I've never tried it but I don't think it will make a difference once rot sets in, it may make a difference before that but you would have no way of knowing if there already are pollutants within the disc before placing them in a vacuum, which in turn may ruin them faster and you may be able to remove all pollutants from the disc before placing it in a vacuum to ensure that nothing happens but how you would go around doing this I have no idea.

 

[Duncan Hills Coffee]

Sony's possibly gonna shut down the PS3, PSP, and Vita stores later this year.

Expect physical copies of certain PS1 games to get even more insane, and be sure to download all the shit you do have before it's gone forever.

 

[Marissa Moira]

Sony's possibly gonna shut down the PS3, PSP, and Vita stores later this year.

Expect physical copies of certain PS1 games to get even more insane, and be sure to download all the shit you do have before it's gone forever.

It all sounds like an unfounded rumor because there's still Vita games coming out.

Also the PSP store was already shut down years ago which is why I think all this is heavily suspect.

 

[BrunoMattei]

There's still new Vita games????!!!?!

 

[Marissa Moira]

There's still new Vita games????!!!?!

Yeah they're out in other territories, what also came out were pictures of devs kits from developers who just got the kits this week. So the store getting shut down makes zero sense because sony wouldn't be issuing new kits.

I've got around 40 vita games and some DLC are tied to trophies like the Guacamelee DLC since the physical release doesn't come with it on the vita, so I'm not going to go all out and buy shit until there's actual confirmation.

The only real kernel of truth to this is that they may finally kill the old webstore that still exists. But I don't see them pulling the stores off the system since the ability to download what you bought is tied to the storefront. Also PSNow uses the same servers that Playstation 3 does.

 

[Dr. Geronimo]

Excuse the shilling but though might be relevant to people here. I bought a couple of 8bitdo pads recently after my 360 controller finally died and am really impressed. Would highly recommend if you are after a wireless controller.

I got one of these a while back (SN30Pro+)
View attachment 1982321
Really nice controller, the best 3rd party pad I've ever owned and one of the best pads I've used period. The only real complain I have is the D-pad feels a little spongy which I don't like but its still miles better than the 360 one.

Got a SN30Pro more recently. Much smaller form factor but I like the layout a bit more for retro games and the D-pad is more solid than the Pro+ which I prefer.
View attachment 1982325

Both of the 8bitdo controllers I have seem to be plagued by awful input lag on wireless. I have retarded cats, so trying to keep wires to a minimum.

I'd rather recommend a DS4 with DS4Windows.

 

[Duncan Hills Coffee]

The only real kernel of truth to this is that they may finally kill the old webstore that still exists. But I don't see them pulling the stores off the system since the ability to download what you bought is tied to the storefront. Also PSNow uses the same servers that Playstation 3 does.

I thought they already did that last October though? There was that big update where they revamped the PlayStation Store website which removed the PS3, PSP, and PS Vita sections, and the email they sent out to people with a PlayStation account said you'd only be able to make new purchases exclusively on those platforms and not from the website. Or are you referring to something else?

Also the PSP store was already shut down years ago which is why I think all this is heavily suspect.

I don't know about that. The email Sony sent out last year indicated the PSP store was still up and running, it's just now you could only make purchases on your PSP and not from the mobile app or the official website.

 

[Cubanodun]

The only real kernel of truth to this is that they may finally kill the old webstore that still exists. But I don't see them pulling the stores off the system since the ability to download what you bought is tied to the storefront. Also PSNow uses the same servers that Playstation 3 does.

And people said piracy was bad, the people of the Vita emulator need to step their game

 

[Marissa Moira]

I don't know about that. The email Sony sent out last year indicated the PSP store was still up and running, it's just now you could only make purchases on your PSP and not from the mobile app or the official website.

You're confusing things. You could buy PSP games from the Vita store and the old browser store, but the PSP store itself was shut down in 2016.

https://www.polygon.com/2016/2/29/11135200/sony-shutting-down-psp-store

The fact that the article still lists the PSP store as currently up and will be one of the things shutdown is entirely wrong, it's been shut down for years at this point.

Again unless they mean they're killing the old browser store(which was the only way to buy PSP games outside the vita), you can't feasibly remove the stores from both the vita and the PS3 and expect shit to function. The PSP was around since the PS2 it, predated a ton of shit including the entire current Playstation network.

The article and the shit surrounding has a bunch of technecal facts that are wrong, from one thing PSNow is very dependent on established PS3 networks including DLC. For example God of War Ascension requires an online pass, the PSNow version has that auto installed, but on the PS3 it's a separate DLC but either way requires access to the same server. if you were to remove the DLC from the store and make it defunct, you affect the PSNow version which streams the data from a Playstation 3 server. Same deal with trophies the lists are the same for PSNow and digital and physical PS3 games.

Taking the storefronts down entirely means removing almost all online functionality outside of P2P games. It means being unable to put shit on the cloud, being unable to download all your stuff. You get what happens with the OG Xbox Live where you just wind up losing everything.

The playstation account itself keeps records of what you have licenses too, it will even give you a message that you can't install certain things on certain consoles. but they all require the store to manage the downloads.

 

[Duncan Hills Coffee]

You're confusing things. You could buy PSP games from the Vita store and the old browser store, but the PSP store itself was shut down in 2016.

https://www.polygon.com/2016/2/29/11135200/sony-shutting-down-psp-store
The fact that the article still lists the PSP store as currently up and will be one of the things shutdown is entirely wrong, it's been shut down for years at this point.

In my defense, this is what the email Sony sent out said (I grabbed this from the Game Informer article discussing the website revamp last year and it's similar to the one I received)

The email flat out states that you'd be able to buy stuff on your PSP. I'm gonna blame poor wording on Sony's part because nothing here indicates that the store had already been shut down for years at this point, and if you missed the news that it did shut down (like I did because I wasn't really using my PSP at that point due to a broken WLAN switch), it gives the exact wrong impression that the store is still going.

As for everything else, I don't know much about PSNow, but I do know it's what allows people to stream PS3 games onto their PS4, so it makes sense why it would use the dedicated PS3 servers to even function. It's weird no one seems to take it into account, but hey doom and gloom sells.

 

[Massively Strong Greed]

I have zero idea what the hell is wrong with the Twin Snakes production especifically but disc rot is so stupidly common (particularly on disc 1) that the price of it is starting to slowly climb up.

Skies of Arcadia and the version of Mario Kart with the bonus demo disc are other games that suffer from this, which really stinks as all three of these were already expensive before they started self destroying themselves.

Specifically the bonus disc or the actual Double Dash disc? My copy isn’t rotting and I don’t have the bonus disc. Also, do rotting copies of Twin Snakes still work? As far as I can tell it’s just the writing on the disc that’s fading away.

 

[Jean Lafitte 1812]

Here's a guide on saving your PS3, PSP, and Vita history. (This also shows you how to access the classic store, which you can still buy stuff from as of this post.)
Here's NoPayStation's Guide on getting your PKG download links.
Using your pkg files and a license dumped from your hacked system you can install the game on any future PS3 or Vita that you hack.

I could see them taking away the ability to buy new PS3 and PSP games as a first phase of sunsetting the old PSN, but I don't think that they'll shut that part of the PSN down entirely yet. Either way make your backups now and send your shit to NPS if you can so other people can grab it too.

 

[XMassAllYearRound]

Specifically the bonus disc or the actual Double Dash disc? My copy isn’t rotting and I don’t have the bonus disc. Also, do rotting copies of Twin Snakes still work? As far as I can tell it’s just the writing on the disc that’s fading away.

The bonus disc, that's the one that usually rots, not the game itself (Which sucks because the bonus disc is the actual rare game here). On the other hand in regards for the Twin snakes copy, while having the print peeling off is not an immediate sign of disc rot I personally wouldn't buy a copy like this unless the owner shows me pictures of it through a flashlight as the missing parts of the label usually are set where there are missing chunks of the whole disc (Hell, I wouldn't buy it on the principle that the manufacturing process was obviously horeseshit and the game will eventually show problems as a result). See pictures below.

(Bear in mind missing chunks of data due to age is a whole lot more common on old music CD's)

As for whether or not a game with disc rot will work, in my experience with PS1 games the results are as follows:

• The game loads normally as the game data is way too small and disc rot hasn't reached it yet (Disc rot usually starts from the edges and starts eating slowly towards the inside, so if you want a ps1 game that lasts for an eternity games like Vagrant Story are a better bet than Final Fantasy IX)
• The game goes down the shitter at some point or another (Usually failing to load immediately)
• The game becomes rather.... wacky, as in Buzz Lightyear losing all his textures and becoming completely black or setting a new speedrun world record in Bugs Bunny Lost in Time because all doors lack collision.

Finally while I cannot find footage of someone playing through a corrupted game (And sadly the only one I have at the moment is a bootleg copy of G Police that fails to load) Techmoan does have a couple samples of what disc rot does on CD video.

Overall please don't buy rotted discs, hell, don't get into collecting optical media at all, it's honestly a fucking headache; buy magnetic or flash media instead, those last for a really long time.

 

[Massively Strong Greed]

The bonus disc, that's the one that usually rotes, not the game itself (Which sucks because the bonus disc is the actual rare game here). On the other hand in regards for the Twin snakes copy, while having the print peeling off is not an immediate sign of disc rot I personally wouldn't buy a copy like this unless the owner shows me pictures of it through a flashlight as the missing parts of the label usually are set where there are missing chunks of the whole disc (Hell, I wouldn't buy it on the principle that the manufacturing process was obviously horeseshit and the game will eventually show problems as a result). See pictures below.

View attachment 2023814View attachment 2023896
(Bear in mind missing chunks of data due to age is a whole lot more common on old music CD's)

As for whether or not a game with disc rot will work, in my experience with PS1 games the results are as follows:

• The game loads normally as the game data is way too small and disc rot hasn't reached it yet (Disc rot usually starts from the edges and starts eating slowly towards the inside, so if you want a ps1 game that lasts for an eternity games like Vagrant Story are a better bet than Final Fantasy IX)
• The game goes down the shitter at some point or another (Usually failing to load immediately)
• The game becomes rather.... wacky, as in Buzz Lightyear losing all his textures and becoming completely black or setting a new speedrun world record in Bugs Bunny Lost in Time because all doors lack collision.

Finally while I cannot find footage of someone playing through a corrupted game (And sadly the only one I have at the moment is a bootleg copy of G Police that fails to load) Techmoan does have a couple samples of what disc rot does on CD video.

Overall please don't buy rotted discs, hell, don't get into collecting optical media at all, it's honestly a fucking headache; buy magnetic or flash media instead, those last for a really long time.

>magnetic
Really? Aren’t floppy disks notorious for being easily ruined?

 

[XMassAllYearRound]

>magnetic
Really? Aren’t floppy disks notorious for being easily ruined?

I was thinking about tape at the moment, but yeah floppy disks are awful.

 

[SolidZone 26]

You're confusing things. You could buy PSP games from the Vita store and the old browser store, but the PSP store itself was shut down in 2016.

https://www.polygon.com/2016/2/29/11135200/sony-shutting-down-psp-store

The fact that the article still lists the PSP store as currently up and will be one of the things shutdown is entirely wrong, it's been shut down for years at this point.

Again unless they mean they're killing the old browser store(which was the only way to buy PSP games outside the vita), you can't feasibly remove the stores from both the vita and the PS3 and expect shit to function. The PSP was around since the PS2 it, predated a ton of shit including the entire current Playstation network.

The article and the shit surrounding has a bunch of technecal facts that are wrong, from one thing PSNow is very dependent on established PS3 networks including DLC. For example God of War Ascension requires an online pass, the PSNow version has that auto installed, but on the PS3 it's a separate DLC but either way requires access to the same server. if you were to remove the DLC from the store and make it defunct, you affect the PSNow version which streams the data from a Playstation 3 server. Same deal with trophies the lists are the same for PSNow and digital and physical PS3 games.

Taking the storefronts down entirely means removing almost all online functionality outside of P2P games. It means being unable to put shit on the cloud, being unable to download all your stuff. You get what happens with the OG Xbox Live where you just wind up losing everything.

The playstation account itself keeps records of what you have licenses too, it will even give you a message that you can't install certain things on certain consoles. but they all require the store to manage the downloads.

Now I hope they are shutting down the PS3 and Vita stores as that will cause a major shitshow.

 

[Gingervitis]

Now I hope they are shutting down the PS3 and Vita stores as that will cause a major shitshow.

Man, they’re already in hot water with their japanese fanbase. Sony shutting down the Vita and PS3 storefronts will cause an outright shitshow not just there, but globally. Especially considering how popular the Vita is for PSP and PS1 emulation.

 

[Stasi]

I just killed my PS1

Tried to mod chip it, apparently my model (PU-23 board) is one of the harder ones to chip and turned out to be the case. Couple of the solder points are two tiny resistors, I got one connected but the second I applied a bit too much pressure and pushed it off the board. Tried for an hour to get it soldered back on with no success. I'll probably sell the unit on ebay to someone with better soldering skill who might be able to bring it back to life.

Was following this guide for any of you interested and who are more proficient with a soldering iron than me.

 

[SolidZone 26]

Man, they’re already in hot water with their japanese fanbase. Sony shutting down the Vita and PS3 storefronts will cause an outright shitshow not just there, but globally. Especially considering how popular the Vita is for PSP and PS1 emulation.

It's happening! PS3, PSP, Vita store are going down!