RWBY - The Hindenburg on which Rooster Teeth rests its hopes, dreams and future

[Eugene90]

You have to remember, RT only uses shortcuts to make things paradoxically harder. We are dealing with man children who have no idea how to manage an animation team due to a lack of experience and genuine talent.

That's the crux of the issue behind most of the major series projects of RT.

Too ambitious and too overconfident for their own good. And the only reason why RWBY even remained standing today was simply because of the snowflakes that want to have their same sex representation kept afloat with the absurd ship-wars sparked by the character pairings in this god-forsaken show.

Had it not been for that, I can assure you this show would've flopped the same way as Gen:Lock did.

 

[firestoopscience]

Wait, they used a plug-in for that? Usually you'd need more assets if you want to use a crowd sim plugin effectively. It's not that difficult- most VFX studios do it all the time. How Rooster Teeth couldn't do something ILM and WETA have been doing for 2-and-a-half decades at this point shocks me considering how many shortcuts they usually take. Plus it wouldn't cost any more to do it given they only have like 6-7 background fanus and 1 Atlas soldier droid model.

They were bragging about using professional plugins for their crowds despite the crowds being pretty lackluster. https://www.reddit.com/r/roosterteeth/comments/9t986q/crwby_behind_the_episode_among_the_crowds/

Point is that the animation guys only went with what they knew and not learn new things along the way that would make things easier or better. Like them still doing one-mesh models instead of nude model + slapping in outfits to make changeable outfits easier. The only time we get to see them wear something aside from their default v7 outfits was the Atlas pajamas and it was basically just ONE body model with interchangeable heads..

 

[Jewelsmakerguy]

They were bragging about using professional plugins for their crowds despite the crowds being pretty lackluster. https://www.reddit.com/r/roosterteeth/comments/9t986q/crwby_behind_the_episode_among_the_crowds/

Point is that the animation guys only went with what they knew and not learn new things along the way that would make things easier or better. Like them still doing one-mesh models instead of nude model + slapping in outfits to make changeable outfits easier. The only time we get to see them wear something aside from their default v7 outfits was the Atlas pajamas and it was basically just ONE body model with interchangeable heads..

Reading that made me hurt inside. You look at a behind the scenes video by a fx company like ILM, and they usually only use planes for environments if they're not the focus of a scene. But here? Overambitious is the correct word for what RT's trying to do. Especially with the train. Interior scenes could easily use low-poly models or just a plane with a separately rendered video for background animation, then merge the two together during the final edit. Hell, even the fight scene outside the train could have been accomplished with similar effort- simplified train tops, low poly mountains with clever shader tricks, and a distant background that could be done separately and composited in during editing. Plus the snow effect can easily hide the seams. It's not that hard and if anything, them wanting to put more effort into their wannabe anime series makes it look like no effort's being put into it. (or it's completely misplaced) I don't think even Disney or Pixar attempt this level of asinine effort that RT tries to pull off, and those are studios who work with big budgets and have films that looks amazing, even if their writing can be on par with, or worse than, RWBY's.

I mean if they need to shit out 13 episodes a season, and they can't figure out ways to cut corners effectively, no wonder people at their studio complain about their workload.

 

[Eugene90]

I mean if they need to shit out 13 episodes a season, and they can't figure out ways to cut corners effectively, no wonder people at their studio complain about their workload.

Why do you think the Glassdoor reviews on Rooster Teeth got filled to the brim with complaints about "crunch" periods as well as arrogant managers and higher ups?

This is why. It's just mismanagement after mismanagement. And people wondered why there's more and more staff layoffs or just people outright quitting their jobs.

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

Speaking of animation, do you guys think RWBY still has that "not enough budget" excuse to give them a free pass?

It was fine being patient and forgiving back when Monty basically soloed the animation. But now?

I mean RT might not be a huge animation studio, but they aren't exactly a small indie studio either too, are they? They are owned by multimillion-dollar corporations and they have lots of industry inside deals and several videogames, merchandise, and even mainstream comics and manga.

Are we sure they aren't just being cheap?

I know the voice acting and writing is terrible, and that's really what matters, but at least right now, they really stepped up the animation from what I first saw. I'm just wondering if I'm alone in thinking that way.

Not at all. I do agree. In fact, that's one of the main draws of the show. RWBY is an eye-candy show and that's always been its main strength and the only reason it's still around. RWBY can be a gorgeous show to look at its best. There's a reason this show inspires so much fan art. They do have some good 3d models.

For example, everything Monty did by animating fight scenes is gorgeous due to their sheer energy and choreography. They have indeed improved steadily, no doubt.

It's just that, once you look past the fight scenes they hype up for trailers that issues show up.

Long story short, they usually try to do things they simply don't have the budget, manpower, experience or talent to do, and it shows. They had a person that basically solo'ed and made all the amazing fight scenes and trailers. But ever since he died, ignoring his weird quirks like using outdated software aside, they've struggled to this day to match his level of quality.

For example, some scenes are literally glorified slideshows or just static drawings:

(this is not fanart but an actual scene from the show btw)

 

[Eugene90]

Speaking of animation, do you guys think RWBY still has that "not enough budget" excuse to give them a free pass?

It was fine being Patient back when Monty basically soloed the animation. But now?

I mean RT might not be a huge animation studio, but they aren't exactly a small indie studio either too, are they? They are owned by multimillion-dollar corporations and they have lots of industry inside deals and several videogames, merchandise, and even mainstream comics and manga.

Are we sure they aren't just being cheap?

They are now part of WB's subsidiary, so no, they don't have that excuse anymore.

Back then they're just a bunch of guys doing what they like, indie-style. But now ever since RWBY came to fame, they no longer have that excuse.

Not to mention during the shitshow that's Gen:Lock, their budget was reportedly over-bloated due to Gray's mismanagement. Hell they even managed to pay Michael B Jordan to do voiceover for their protagonist there.

So no. "Not enough budget" is just utter bollocks from this point -- what they do lack however -- was time. Proper time to develop, write and manage their production effort.

RWBY is now a yearly affair and it's just going through similar circle like all those rehashed Call of Duty games. It will just be diluted further and getting more tiresome unless they can absolutely knock it out of the park with their next season.

Right now, since V6-7, they're just being cheap.

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

Not to mention during the shitshow that's Gen:Lock, their budget was reportedly over-bloated due to Gray's mismanagement. Hell they even managed to pay Michael B Jordan to do voiceover for their protagonist there.

Not gonna lie. I was mildly curious about that show, but once I heard they were boasting about having a "non-binary" character... I gave it a hard pass.

I mean why watch another woke show poorly imitating anime and lecturing its audience when you have dozens of high-quality options of the real deal that are actually fun? It's a no brainer.

 

[Eugene90]

Not gonna lie. I was mildly curious about that show, but once I heard they were boasting about having a "non-binary" character... I gave it a hard pass.

I mean why watch another woke show poorly imitating anime and lecturing its audience when you have dozens of high-quality options of the real deal that are actually fun? It's a no brainer.

Exactly.

If I want my fix of mecha anime, I pick Evangelion, Gurren Lagann and Code Geass as well as Gundam 00.

 

[Cactuar King]

Not gonna lie. I was mildly curious about that show, but once I heard they were boasting about having a "non-binary" character... I gave it a hard pass.

I mean why watch another woke show poorly imitating anime and lecturing its audience when you have dozens of high-quality options of the real deal that are actually fun? It's a no brainer.

I never watched it because I found the fact that they put the trailer for it at the start of every episode of RWBY to be obnoxious and off-putting.

 

[Jewelsmakerguy]

Not gonna lie. I was mildly curious about that show, but once I heard they were boasting about having a "non-binary" character... I gave it a hard pass.

I mean why watch another woke show poorly imitating anime and lecturing its audience when you have dozens of high-quality options of the real deal that are actually fun? It's a no brainer.

I only watched it because of who they bagged for voices and wondering just what the hell went through their minds to have Tennent, Yamadera, and Rial all in the same show and how much they paid them to be in it (or how they even got Yamadera in the first place, since they could have gotten some Asian American in the role). Seems likely the budget for animation on both concurrent shows had to be sacrificed for the cast.

Which still begs the question as to what the budget for these shows even are. They're clearly not much given how overambitious they are, but I don't think we've ever gotten a exact number for them, especially now that they're getting more and more prominent LA video game and anime voices to take part for RWBY's cast and they're probably not cheap like their in-house or Funimation-culled actors.

 

[Random Internet Person]

That's the crux of the issue behind most of the major series projects of RT.

Too ambitious and too overconfident for their own good. And the only reason why RWBY even remained standing today was simply because of the snowflakes that want to have their same sex representation kept afloat with the absurd ship-wars sparked by the character pairings in this god-forsaken show.

Had it not been for that, I can assure you this show would've flopped the same way as Gen:Lock did.

They are now part of WB's subsidiary, so no, they don't have that excuse anymore.

Back then they're just a bunch of guys doing what they like, indie-style. But now ever since RWBY came to fame, they no longer have that excuse.

Not to mention during the shitshow that's Gen:Lock, their budget was reportedly over-bloated due to Gray's mismanagement. Hell they even managed to pay Michael B Jordan to do voiceover for their protagonist there.

So no. "Not enough budget" is just utter bollocks from this point -- what they do lack however -- was time. Proper time to develop, write and manage their production effort.

RWBY is now a yearly affair and it's just going through similar circle like all those rehashed Call of Duty games. It will just be diluted further and getting more tiresome unless they can absolutely knock it out of the park with their next season.

Right now, since V6-7, they're just being cheap.

Volumes 1 and 2 were condensed enough for RT to manage. It was only when Beacon fell (after a shitty tournament arc) that the wheels fell off. I think they even admitted V4 was overly ambitious because they were trying to copy Game of Thrones at the height of their popularity with everyone separated...and they can’t even do that right with how much JNR lags behind Team RWBY. And now, we have some bootleg Final Famtasy game without any of the side quests/missions needed to either grind, kill time, or get 100% completion.

I never watched it because I found the fact that they put the trailer for it at the start of every episode of RWBY to be obnoxious and off-putting.

I only watched it because of who they bagged for voices and wondering just what the hell went through their minds to have Tennent, Yamadera, and Rial all in the same show and how much they paid them to be in it (or how they even got Yamadera in the first place, since they could have gotten some Asian American in the role). Seems likely the budget for animation on both concurrent shows had to be sacrificed for the cast.

Which still begs the question as to what the budget for these shows even are. They're clearly not much given how overambitious they are, but I don't think we've ever gotten a exact number for them, especially now that they're getting more and more prominent LA video game and anime voices to take part for RWBY's cast and they're probably not cheap like their in-house or Funimation-culled actors.

Well, Gray had RT going all in on Gen Lock to secure a glorious future where RT would be taken seriously in the entertainment industry and not be seen as “those guys who screw around in Halo”, by any means necessary. He got Gen Lock on Adult Swim for crying out loud, something that RWBY can’t accomplish and never could. And...the gamble turned out to be a bust.

 

[Eugene90]

Volumes 1 and 2 were condensed enough for RT to manage. It was only when Beacon fell (after a shitty tournament arc) that the wheels fell off. I think they even admitted V4 was overly ambitious because they were trying to copy Game of Thrones at the height of their popularity with everyone separated...and they can’t even do that right with how much JNR lags behind Team RWBY. And now, we have some bootleg Final Famtasy game without any of the side quests/missions needed to either grind, kill time, or get 100% completion.

Thing is -- RWBY cannot even do bootleg FF right since there's literally no proper buildup to plot climax, it all just feels so inconsequential when it happen and many of the supportive casts just come and go without so much as a peep. Not once do I feel like they're ever important to the narrative other than to fill a quota for what's required in a season.

Also let's not forget that the lore of RWBY was utter dogshit as well and not even consistent with its own rules at times.

 

[Random Internet Person]

Thing is -- RWBY cannot even do bootleg FF right since there's literally no proper buildup to plot climax, it all just feels so inconsequential when it happen and many of the supportive casts just come and go without so much as a peep. Not once do I feel like they're ever important to the narrative other than to fill a quota for what's required in a season.

Also let's not forget that the lore of RWBY was utter dogshit as well and not even consistent with its own rules at times.

That’s most likely because after Beacon fell, the show REALLY went into a lore heavy show and there are times where you can see that not much development went into things, regardless of what CRWBY says about things being planned from the start or were slated to happen from day one. Seriously, the story differences volumes 1-2 (and maybe 3) and volumes 4-7 (especially since V5) can be pretty jarring once you see things in the big picture.

 

[Guts Gets Some]

Speaking of animation, do you guys think RWBY still has that "not enough budget" excuse to give them a free pass?

It was fine being patient and forgiving back when Monty basically soloed the animation. But now?

I mean RT might not be a huge animation studio, but they aren't exactly a small indie studio either too, are they? They are owned by multimillion-dollar corporations and they have lots of industry inside deals and several videogames, merchandise, and even mainstream comics and manga.

Are we sure they aren't just being cheap?



Not at all. I do agree. In fact, that's one of the main draws of the show. RWBY is an eye-candy show and that's always been its main strength and the only reason it's still around. RWBY can be a gorgeous show to look at its best. There's a reason this show inspires so much fan art. They do have some good 3d models.

For example, everything Monty did by animating fight scenes is gorgeous due to their sheer energy and choreography. They have indeed improved steadily, no doubt.

It's just that, once you look past the fight scenes they hype up for trailers that issues show up.

Long story short, they usually try to do things they simply don't have the budget, manpower, experience or talent to do, and it shows. They had a person that basically solo'ed and made all the amazing fight scenes and trailers. But ever since he died, ignoring his weird quirks like using outdated software aside, they've struggled to this day to match his level of quality.

For example, some scenes are literally glorified slideshows or just static drawings:

View attachment 1234319

(this is not fanart but an actual scene from the show btw)

Considering this is another example of a one-man animation team (yes, it's the blatantly obvious cash grab you think it is):

I think he did a pretty good job, considering.

I've always wanted to know (I did look up some backstory), was this guy also behind the character designs too? Like everything? Because if so, he definitely deserves an applause.
I legit think this is embarrassing, but it's probably something that could have its own artbook. It's not a bad look. I think most of the designs are a bit more interesting than what I think the Avatar series was going for, to be honest.
Too bad, unlike those series, the designs themselves are mostly superfluous and only exist to look cool, IE, they don't actually say anything about the world, characters, powers, or culture like in Avatar.

As I wrote before, it's CLOSER to a FE game made 5+ years ago on outdated hardware, so the fact these guys have money and this is an extremely popular production is inexcusable. They could make something so much better if they actually wanted to.

I know the guy behind it died; isn't it a conspiracy that his wife intentionally offed him with cat allergies? Then took all his money for boob implants for his whore-playing hobby, right?
I'm not sure how the production went if he was behind everything before that.

I want to ask too, if he was behind it all, what about the writing? Was it better then too? Did he actually have passion and a story in mind when he started it?
Or has that always been bad too?


Monty sounds pretty cool, actually. Preferring to use outdated hardware isn't a bad thing. I've actually edited AMVs for quite awhile, and I never progressed past good old Windows Movie Maker for XP. And with how good I got at using it, people most times couldn't even tell it was from that. Not to mention most of my favorite editors also used it at some point too, or stuck with it like me, along with many other tricks. Amazing stuff, regardless.

Good software does not a good artist make, as the saying goes. If you have no talent for something, even the most expensive and cutting edge tool isn't going to help you. Real pros can always make even the basics work for them. That's my philosophy.

 

[BroccoliBrain]

God I love it when you guys dig up how much of a wreck this is on a technical level

Also... I kinda like the character designs. They're really nice, cute anime girls, what can I say? There are worse things in the world, haha.

Not really, they're kind of ugly imo. It really shows when they tweak that same TDA-Miku face and end up with something like Vernal (those EYES, man). Everyone in RWBY looks pretty poor in profile. Funnily enough I'm more forgiving over Gen:Lock's look, I genuinely preferred the more defined faces and think what they came up on their own was way better than the weird attempt to reverse engineer some random Japanese guy's assets. It's a real shame hearing what Gray did when he left RWBY to make Gen:Lock, as much as it's funny to watch the flames in the aftermath, internal conflicts just sound like pure misery from the top.

 

[Guts Gets Some]

God I love it when you guys dig up how much of a wreck this is on a technical level

Not really, they're kind of ugly imo. It really shows when they tweak that same TDA-Miku face and end up with something like Vernal (those EYES, man). Everyone in RWBY looks pretty poor in profile. Funnily enough I'm more forgiving over Gen:Lock's look, I genuinely preferred the more defined faces and think what they came up on their own was way better than the weird attempt to reverse engineer some random Japanese guy's assets. It's a real shame hearing what Gray did when he left RWBY to make Gen:Lock, as much as it's funny to watch the flames in the aftermath, internal conflicts just sound like pure misery from the top.

It's total weeb-bait for sure, but what can I say? I still kinda like them.

 

[Eugene90]

God I love it when you guys dig up how much of a wreck this is on a technical level

Not really, they're kind of ugly imo. It really shows when they tweak that same TDA-Miku face and end up with something like Vernal (those EYES, man). Everyone in RWBY looks pretty poor in profile. Funnily enough I'm more forgiving over Gen:Lock's look, I genuinely preferred the more defined faces and think what they came up on their own was way better than the weird attempt to reverse engineer some random Japanese guy's assets. It's a real shame hearing what Gray did when he left RWBY to make Gen:Lock, as much as it's funny to watch the flames in the aftermath, internal conflicts just sound like pure misery from the top.

RWBY is the result of what happens when people who work on it tries to make a cheap copy of one of those school fantasies like Harry Potter without truly understanding the depth behind why it makes it fascinating in the first place but also failed to make a compelling main protagonist to drive the plot and premise as a whole.

Gen:Lock on the other hand is just a cheap as fuck cash grab from Gray that tries to make a cheap copy of mecha anime with zero knowledge on anything to make the genre even remotely interesting, whether it's theme, philosophy, characters, lore or plot.

And what we ended up getting is just a bland and utterly tasteless undercooked mess of a show that have no idea what it wants to be from the start.

 

[BroccoliBrain]

Gen:Lock on the other hand is just a cheap as fuck cash grab from Gray that tries to make a cheap copy of mecha anime with zero knowledge on anything to make the genre even remotely interesting, whether it's theme, philosophy, characters, lore or plot

Damn, was it really that bad? I remember that I watched the first episode but not much about its contents. I was fooled by the big names in the voice cast, I thought RT was finally getting its shit together to be able to buy that star power. Having one of the main characters speak entirely in Japanese felt kind of silly though, it's somehow intrusive in a way. Didn't like the mech designs either but that's because the only ones I do like are lanky Evangelions.

 

[Eugene90]

Damn, was it really that bad? I remember that I watched the first episode but not much about its contents. I was fooled by the big names in the voice cast, I thought RT was finally getting its shit together to be able to buy that star power. Having one of the main characters speak entirely in Japanese felt kind of silly though, it's somehow intrusive in a way. Didn't like the mech designs either but that's because the only ones I do like are lanky Evangelions.

Evas are generally fascinating designs since they're not even robots entirely, but more like a form of bio-droids that somehow has soul-human synchronization value of merging with the pilots in behavior somehow. It's an unorthordox form of the robot among others so that's why they're appealing and more interesting.

And honestly Gen:Lock feels more like an experiment than anything.

The one character speaking in Japanese while others understanding him bit? That's clearly trying to copy what Star Wars did with the aliens communicating with humans with foreign alien language while they still understand Basic.

But here it doesn't fucking work because there's literally no reason to use such fluff between humans who clearly should have time and dedication to learn one single language to make it easy to communicate with each other especially in a timeline where education should never have been an issue to begin with. There's no excuse behind it.

So what we're seeing from Gen:Lock there, is just adding unnecessary fluff that really contributes nothing to the show.

 

[Dumpster dived waifu]

Gen:Lock on the other hand is just a cheap as fuck cash grab from Gray that tries to make a cheap copy of mecha anime with zero knowledge on anything to make the genre even remotely interesting, whether it's theme, philosophy, characters, lore or plot.

Maybe if you weren't such a bigoted transphobic asshole, you would have seen that the show was a masterpiece of a mecha anime because they advanced the genre with their ground breaking genderfluid character. Maybe you should try being open minded.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to invent time travel to recoup the lost 5 minutes I wasted googling genlock because that boring ass show was so forgettable, I couldn't remember if there was a trans/genderfluid character or if that was a fever dream.