Safely Buying Used Hardware - pre-owned == pre-pwned?

[Ombra]

I'm curious of how other people are safely purchasing pre-owned hardware.

Over the last ten+ years, all three of my Dell Optiplex MiniTower PCs were bought used/refurbished from a source I originally found on eBay, but later bought from direct. Each lasted about three to four years, and cost $150 to $200. Each originated from a business, and no contact with/activation from M$ was needed.

Upon arrival, I took each one to a computer shop for full malware SAD (SearchAndDestroy), along with some customization...mobile rack in the spare 5.25 bay, replaced the DVD ROM with a DVD burner, upgraded graphics card, and maxed out the RAM. Also had them install Word 2003, fiddle with the M$ firewall, and download Malwarebytes. Only then did I take it home and expose it to the internet. The only problems I ever had was later on, getting stuck with some crapware (PUPs) from MajorGeeks or Softpedia.

My first and second PCs was XP Pro. Current one is Win 7 Pro on an OptiPlex 7010.

 

[Free4Ever]

I avoid buying from poor swarthoids because I find interacting with them an ignoble pursuit, even if it's just to "score" some piece of hardware. Besides that I'm a pretty sharp bidder (if I need to be) and I think about what platform is best to look for which thing - basically, where there's an honor system in place for the particular category - so I've little issues of buyer's regret.

Ofc there are some things I always buy new, like underwear and obscure adapters in the 3-20 euro price range, but e,g, I've little concern about the 3x 3TB WD drives I recently bought, or the LTO drives catching dust while I wait until I feel up to figuring out how to wire them up.

The biggest issue I've encountered is stuff that takes up space. Like I had a "free" CRT delivered to me for 15 euros, and it doesn't turn on (zero attempts to fix it made so far, I do believe there's a good chance for it) and it's big and have. So that's annoying.

 

[Coldsteel the Hedgehog]

In my experience being a poorfag whose built quite a few PCs for people over the years:

• Ram is fine used as long as it doesn't look beat to shit. Unless you're buying a ridiculous amount of it, it's cheap enough I wouldn't be worried.
• Motherboards are also usually fine but check and make sure you don't see bent pins anywhere and prioritize ones that still have I/O shields, they tend to be in the best shape.
• HDDs are usually fine if they're from a reputable brand. I would rather pull out my own fingernails than buy a used SSD that wasn't BNIB.
• CPUs are best if you can either buy them from someone who sells sheets of them, or from someone personal who is looking to part out. Make sure you get pictures of the pins.
• GPUs can be kind of a crapshoot, but in my experience, the most reliable second-hand ones come from:
  • People doing part-outs, especially if they're willing to sell the whole system together
  • Cryptominers, but ONLY if they pass the sniff check. You want to look for cards that have been well maintained and likely kept running under a steady load with proper cooling. Power cycling kills cards much faster than using them. Miners who have done work on their GPUs like de-shelling, re-pasting, custom coolers, etc. usually know enough of what they're doing that those cards are probably in decent shape.
  • Really old cards that are being sold for upgrades, think your 1080tis and whatnot. If they look clean, that person's probably been tending that system for damn near a decade.

 

[SCV]

Used computer parts are never worth it, especially in the age of crypto-mining which puts huge strain on the hardware and is likely what anything was "used" for.

Definitely can't debate the effects of thermal cycling,

That's the term, thank you.

GPUs used to mine crypto are often the best condition you can get on the used market. Miners will usually undervolt their cards because of the power/efficiency curve. They will also take other steps to keep them in good condition because they are an investment and that math includes resale value.

Regarding "wear and tear" there are no moving parts in a gpu besides the fans. You've come to the correct conclusion that thermal cycling is one of the main ways PBCs fail but you know what isn't a cycle? 100% all the time. That is the opposite of a cycle. You know what is a cycle? Someone booting up a game for a few hours a day (and the game will have more or less intense parts too).

If you have to choose between a gpu and all else being equal your choice is '1337 gaymor gpu' (may have been OC'd, or in a dirty house, definitely thermal cycles) and mining gpu (probably undervolted, well kept, minimal thermal cycles) you should pick the mining gpu.

 

[burntKale]

Been lurking on this thread for a while and was hoping on some pointers to buying pre-owned Thinkpads (or laptops in general).

Most likely shops wouldn’t be 100% transparent on how the condition actually is in terms of its internals. So was hoping if y’all have any suggestions for Poweshell scripts/repositories that contains it that can be ran ad-hoc on the laptop to check its overall health (i.e, battery health, storage capacity, etc etc).

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole 2]

GPUs used to mine crypto are often the best condition you can get on the used market. Miners will usually undervolt their cards because of the power/efficiency curve. They will also take other steps to keep them in good condition because they are an investment and that math includes resale value.

Regarding "wear and tear" there are no moving parts in a gpu besides the fans. You've come to the correct conclusion that thermal cycling is one of the main ways PBCs fail but you know what isn't a cycle? 100% all the time. That is the opposite of a cycle. You know what is a cycle? Someone booting up a game for a few hours a day (and the game will have more or less intense parts too).

If you have to choose between a gpu and all else being equal your choice is '1337 gaymor gpu' (may have been OC'd, or in a dirty house, definitely thermal cycles) and mining gpu (probably undervolted, well kept, minimal thermal cycles) you should pick the mining gpu.

The exception is the fans, an undervolted GPU used for mining might be perfectly fine but those fans have been working out 24/7 for however long the card was used in a crypto-farm. If you're buying a used crypto-GPU take a look at what a replacement fan/shroud costs for that model and if it is reasonably available if you suddenly need it. Factor that into the price.

Been lurking on this thread for a while and was hoping on some pointers to buying pre-owned Thinkpads (or laptops in general).

Most likely shops wouldn’t be 100% transparent on how the condition actually is in terms of its internals. So was hoping if y’all have any suggestions for Poweshell scripts/repositories that contains it that can be ran ad-hoc on the laptop to check its overall health (i.e, battery health, storage capacity, etc etc).

@burntKale Press F10 at boot and run diagnostics to check battery health etc.

 

[SCV]

The exception is the fans, an undervolted GPU used for mining might be perfectly fine but those fans have been working out 24/7 for however long the card was used in a crypto-farm. If you're buying a used crypto-GPU take a look at what a replacement fan/shroud costs for that model and if it is reasonably available if you suddenly need it. Factor that into the price.

This is reasonably however I think even this might be overstating it if only because most gpus don't even have a temp at which the fans stop. So if your regular joe blow leaves his PC on regularly and the min. speed is ~30% the difference in wear isn't going to be as big as you would think.

Plus fans are the easiest part to jury-rig. If you have any laying around a few zip ties and it will be good enough. You can even get by with one dead fan one some cards depending on the total fans they have and their heat output. Three fan gtx 1660 has the fan on the end go out? Just disconnect it.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole 2]

This is reasonably however I think even this might be overstating it if only because most gpus don't even have a temp at which the fans stop. So if your regular joe blow leaves his PC on regularly and the min. speed is ~30% the difference in wear isn't going to be as big as you would think.

The fans on the last few cards I've owned doesn't even move unless I start a game, passive cooling is enough for everything else.

 

[Sultan Bin Jewstar]

You've come to the correct conclusion that thermal cycling is one of the main ways PBCs fail but you know what isn't a cycle? 100% all the time. That is the opposite of a cycle. You know what is a cycle? Someone booting up a game for a few hours a day (and the game will have more or less intense parts too).

You're debating two points at once and neither one particularly lands in this scenario.
If what you're saying is true, then why have processor coolers if you're going to just run all the time.

Constant load isn't great.
Thermal cycling is still real even in a constant load environment. Energy doesn't just vanish.
Thermodynamics n sheeiiiit.

 

[SCV]

If what you're saying is true, then why have processor coolers if you're going to just run all the time.

...because they would melt? You're a fucking retard.

Thermodynamics n sheeiiiit.

Ironic given your post.

 

[Sultan Bin Jewstar]

...because they would melt? You're a fucking retard.


Ironic given your post.

You're saying there's no thermal cycling if load is constant.
The cooling media (air) isn't an energy vacuum.
You're wrong. The end.

 

[SCV]

You're saying there's no thermal cycling if load is constant.

Yes, that is correct. If you have a part outputting a constant amount of heat in a stable environment it will eventually reach steady state and remain at a constant temperature. Because the temperature is constant the part(s) will not expand and contract repeatedly in a thermal cycle.

The cooling media (air) isn't an energy vacuum.

Thermal cycling is still real even in a constant load environment. Energy doesn't just vanish.

This is asinine. If whatever medium you are rejecting heat into remains at a constant temperature (for instance, you are rejecting heat into the atmosphere -possibly even in a temperature controlled building- from your 300w gpu) it absolute can be treated as a static heat sink.

I am seriously at a loss of words to express just how fucking stupid you are so I'm just going to quote this again

Thermodynamics n sheeiiiit.

and ask you to slither back into whatever LTT-side-channel-comment-section you crawled out of.

 

[Agent Abe Caprine]

I know this is obvious, but never get a used power supply.

 

[Sultan Bin Jewstar]

If whatever medium you are rejecting heat into remains at a constant temperature (for instance, you are rejecting heat into the atmosphere -possibly even in a temperature controlled building- from your 300w gpu) it absolute can be treated as a static heat sink.

I agree with the first half of this.
I am not deluding myself into believing miners are controlling ambient temperature in the way you are describing.
Air is a categorically poor thermal conductor.
Silicon and metal are considerably better, which puts the differential between ambient and those media squarely on the metal and silicon.


You're effectively making a point for buying a 500,000 mile car that was driven all 500,000 miles at once, but "it's a good deal because the driver had their foot to the floor the whole time!".
Plasticity and heat flux exist. GPUs are not immune to them.


I didn't pick this hill, man.
It's ok to be wrong, just don't be mad at the internet about it.

 

[SCV]

I agree with the first half of this.
I am not deluding myself into believing miners are controlling ambient temperature in the way you are describing.
Air is a categorically poor thermal conductor.
Silicon and metal are considerably better, which puts the differential between ambient and those media squarely on the metal and silicon.


You're effectively making a point for buying a 500,000 mile car that was driven all 500,000 miles at once, but "it's a good deal because the driver had their foot to the floor the whole time!".
Plasticity and heat flux exist. GPUs are not immune to them.


I didn't pick this hill, man.
It's ok to be wrong, just don't be mad at the internet about it.

I think I'm going to leave it here. You're obviously a retard with no concept of "Thermodynamics n sheeiiiit." much less thermal cycling and I doubt you've ever even heard of a coefficient of expansion. Take your garbage advice, retarded analogies, and whatever the fuck "I didn't pick this hill, man" is somewhere else.

 

[Sultan Bin Jewstar]

I think I'm going to leave it here. You're obviously a retard with no concept of "Thermodynamics n sheeiiiit." much less thermal cycling and I doubt you've ever even heard of a coefficient of expansion. Take your garbage advice, retarded analogies, and whatever the fuck "I didn't pick this hill, man" is somewhere else.

Your assertion:

GPUs used to mine crypto are often the best condition you can get on the used market.

Is a byproduct of:

because they are an investment and that math includes resale value.

You are, wittingly or otherwise a mining shill by buying the, "I promise it's not as used as it looks" line from an industry that has inherent interest in the resale of intermittent load rated consumer hardware under constant load.
Encapsulants and masks lift from silicon under constant load. This is widely documented in a variety of industries.

This is why I asked about the need of a cooler in a notional controlled environment.
You knew the answer, I knew the answer, and you proved my point.
Work is being performed and there is no escaping it.
A controlled environment does not negate this.

I started this thread to find good places to look for server-grade parts that aren't clapped out. I didn't start it for "trust me, bro" logic bought by the few (you) to be accepted by the many.

If you have a reseller who performs some form of scoping, imaging, and/or logical analysis on the hardware with warranty, please share.
If you are toeing the line of "cryptobro said it's good", you are misguided and misguiding others.

 

[hog cranking frog]

I buy used computer internals all the time, almost exclusively. Silly to buy a CPU new when even a 3-4 year old top of the line one will come at massive savings and perform great.

In a past life I easily built many 10ks of servers and workstations, the excitement of a new computer part is lost on me. Its all hunks of silicon you shove power into and anime titty video game comes out.

One thing I spend $$$ on new? Fans.

 

[Sultan Bin Jewstar]

I buy used computer internals all the time, almost exclusively. Silly to buy a CPU new when even a 3-4 year old top of the line one will come at massive savings and perform great.

In a past life I easily built many 10ks of servers and workstations, the excitement of a new computer part is lost on me. Its all hunks of silicon you shove power into and anime titty video game comes out.

One thing I spend $$$ on new? Fans.

do you spend so little that it's an "if he dies, he dies" kind of thing, or have you still been burnt?

 

[TheRedChair]

Used computer parts are never worth it, especially in the age of crypto-mining which puts huge strain on the hardware and is likely what anything was "used" for.

Depends where the source comes from.
I am currently running a 5900OEM CPU. The holy grail of CPU's at the time. These CPU's come from parted out AlienWare Computers. I purchased the CPU for $340 and it was only 3 months old.

Again it just depends where the source of your used parts come from.

BUT I always buy New PSU's. No Exceptions.

 

[hog cranking frog]

do you spend so little that it's an "if he dies, he dies" kind of thing, or have you still been burnt?

To me yes. Your milage may very. Things don't die often in my experience, they just get moved into my server rack as they age out of my workstation. Got some things to sell actually now that I think about it.