SCP Foundation - Creepypasta with roid rage - now ITT: SCP fans

[AStupidMonkey]

You just don't understand what I'm saying then. I said there is a clause in CC that allows them to keep Harmony's articles up without their permission, that is their entire argument for doing this in the first place. But if Harmony never released their content under CC in the first place then this argument is moot and they have no moral or legal standing to keep them up. Which, could realistically be argued, since there is no agreement when joining the SCP wiki stating that you are automatically releasing your works under CC.

Edit: Also for some reason I can't quote your original post but no, literally everything is about legal standing. Someone making a retarded article and it getting booed off the site has nothing to do with the complexities of CC and why it allows them to keep Harmony's articles on the site. The CC license being invalid literally changes everything, not just in this instance but in any future instances where they refuse to delete an authors work.

It takes zero "legal standing" to make a decision here. They're literally allowed to pick whichever one they want. And they're going to pretend their hands were tied either way.

What I don't understand is why you're arguing with me. I said "A does not force their hand to B," and you said "You're wrong, A allows them to C." If you don't understand how retarded you are, then I wash my hands of this autism.

 

[AnOminous]

Furthermore, it may very well be moot if Roget had knowledge of the site's licensing procedures because the site theoretically applies the license incorrectly in the first place. If a random SCP writer can claim the "agreement" to use the license is invalid Roget may be entitled to the same claim.

If they don't have some evidence Roget specifically agreed to it, there's no release of rights. Look what happened to Archie Comics when they couldn't produce their signed contract with Ken Penders. I'm pretty sure he knew when he was being paid to create his weird Sonic comics what the actual terms of the agreement were.

 

[alanshaffer3293]

It takes zero "legal standing" to make a decision here. They're literally allowed to pick whichever one they want. And they're going to pretend their hands were tied either way.

What I don't understand is why you're arguing with me. I said "A does not force their hand to B," and you said "You're wrong, A allows them to C." If you don't understand how retarded you are, then I wash my hands of this autism.

>It takes zero "legal standing" to make a decision here.
This entire section of the thread for the last 3 pages or so has been about the legal standing of SCP's Creative Commons license, that is literally the only thing standing between them and a potential lawsuit
>They're literally allowed to pick whichever one they want
What? Whichever what?
>And they're going to pretend their hands were tied anyway
Again, what? What are you even talking about? It feels like you're just putting what I say into a random cynical response generator without actually understanding anything that's being discussed

 

[AStupidMonkey]

>It takes zero "legal standing" to make a decision here.
This entire section of the thread for the last 3 pages or so has been about the legal standing of SCP's Creative Commons license, that is literally the only thing standing between them and a potential lawsuit
>They're literally allowed to pick whichever one they want
What? Whichever what?
>And they're going to pretend their hands were tied anyway
Again, what? What are you even talking about? It feels like you're just putting what I say into a random cynical response generator without actually understanding anything that's being discussed

You are dumb, and I would not have sex with you.

 

[Cow-Chan]

You are dumb, and I would not have sex with you.

Apparently Phamtom has a reputation for being a total idiot.

 

[Furret]

People are starting to get genuinely worked up over this hypothetical when we don't even know if Roget/Harmony would sue given this new information?

 

[AnOminous]

People are starting to get genuinely worked up over this hypothetical when we don't even know if Roget/Harmony would sue given this new information?

It potentially affects a lot (or potentially all) SCPs and they're open to legal action from any future Mad Guys. And we don't even know for a certainty that there isn't some way the agreement is binding anyway. We just don't have facts conclusively showing it does. The rest seems to be "well I don't remember agreeing to it," but people glaze over when they see shit like that and might have just forgotten it.

 

[alanshaffer3293]

You are dumb, and I would not have sex with you.

I am sorry if I'm coming off as retarded or mad here, I'm not, I just genuinely don't understand what you are trying to say.

"It takes zero legal standing to make a decision here", yeah, it does. You aren't allowed to keep something someone else made on a website without their permission. The only reason they claim they can do that is because of a supposed licensing agreement that is automatically made between the website and the writer to allow such a thing to happen. If this agreement was found to have no legal standing or not even exist at all (as it is looking right now) then their decision to keep Harmony's articles up makes 0 sense and could result in a lawsuit.

 

[Furret]

It potentially affects a lot (or potentially all) SCPs and they're open to legal action from any future Mad Guys. And we don't even know for a certainty that there isn't some way the agreement is binding anyway. We just don't have facts conclusively showing it does. The rest seems to be "well I don't remember agreeing to it," but people glaze over when they see shit like that and might have just forgotten it.

We know they read this thread, so I won't be surprised if we see an agreement added to the application process soon to prevent future Very Mad People from taking them to court over some articles. Roget/Harmony could still potentially sue, but if that doesn't happen then this doesn't mean much of anything.

Edit: Besides, they would just delete the articles no questions asked for most other authors on the site. Roget/Harmony is being given the shaft because it would cause problems for them, but most authors don't matter as much as Roget/Harmony.

 

[AStupidMonkey]

Nobody is going to sue over SCP. It would cost too much, and they apparently have a slush-fund to SLAP/antiSLAP the hell out of anyone who tries.

Assuming I am correct (which I often do), the only decision is do they A. do the right thing on principle, or B. do the scummy thing out of convenience.

My money's on B, and as previously stated, my prediction is they will whine and complain about it whichever which way they go.

I am sorry if I'm coming off as retarded or mad here, I'm not, I just genuinely don't understand what you are trying to say.

"It takes zero legal standing to make a decision here", yeah, it does. You aren't allowed to keep something someone else made on a website without their permission. The only reason they claim they can do that is because of a supposed licensing agreement that is automatically made between the website and the writer to allow such a thing to happen. If this agreement was found to have no legal standing or not even exist at all (as it is looking right now) then their decision to keep Harmony's articles up makes 0 sense and could result in a lawsuit.

Dude, what part of "wash my hands of this autism" do you not understand? I said GOOD DAY, sir! Stop crapping up the thread with your smooth-brained bickering.

 

[ScatmansWorld]

I've already talked about the whole CC BY-SA license thing a couple pages ago, but the way I see it this is a win-win situation for Harmony regardless of whether they have to respect the license or not. If they can make a case that they should keep their copyright on the articles, then that's that. If those articles really are licensed under CC BY-SA, well, no matter what the SCP wiki people do with it, they don't really "own" those articles in the first place. They can make whatever crazy adaptations or derivative works they want with those articles, but guess what? They still won't have any copyright over any of it because it's legally required to be licensed under CC BY-SA. Anything they do with them can be freely copied and altered as well, so as far as I'm concerned they can go right ahead and continue to not own anything they make.

 

[Baubius]

Apparently Phamtom has a reputation for being a total idiot.

It goes deep.

 

[ToS]

I've already talked about the whole CC BY-SA license thing a couple pages ago, but the way I see it this is a win-win situation for Harmony regardless of whether they have to respect the license or not. If they can make a case that they should keep their copyright on the articles, then that's that. If those articles really are licensed under CC BY-SA, well, no matter what the SCP wiki people do with it, they don't really "own" those articles in the first place. They can make whatever crazy adaptations or derivative works they want with those articles, but guess what? They still won't have any copyright over any of it because it's legally required to be licensed under CC BY-SA. Anything they do with them can be freely copied and altered as well, so as far as I'm concerned they can go right ahead and continue to not own anything they make.

This is all true, but the articles are useless to most SCP authors outside SCP because that is where you can get the attention and efame for them. That's all it's all about. Most understand that they can legally take the articles and still do things with them if they want. But they mostly just care about the prestige of them being published on SCP (or in Harmony's case, tearing them down in a blaze of "glory" after having gained that notoriety).

 

[alanshaffer3293]

Apparently Phamtom has a reputation for being a total idiot.

No, not really, although I do have a lot of enemies in the SCP community who would characterize me like that.

 

[Furret]

This is all true, but the articles are useless to most SCP authors outside SCP because that is where you can get the attention and efame for them. That's all it's all about. Most understand that they can legally take the articles and still do things with them if they want. But they mostly just care about the prestige of them being published on SCP (or in Harmony's case, tearing them down in a blaze of "glory" after having gained that notoriety).

Some of the tales might do decently outside of the wiki itself, but yeah the SCP articles can't really go anywhere else and be popular.

 

[AnOminous]

Nobody is going to sue over SCP. It would cost too much, and they apparently have a slush-fund to SLAP/antiSLAP the hell out of anyone who tries.

Something has to be actually a SLAPP to get SLAPPed. It's not just a magic wand to make lawsuits disappear. Arguably it would be pointless and expensive, but it would be expensive to whoever lost because the prevailing plaintiff in such a lawsuit generally gets their fees paid. Of course so can the defendant. If Harmony is feeling particularly vindictive and can find someone to take it on contingency I can't say it would be a good idea but it would be a source of ongoing entertainment for me, at least.

 

[AStupidMonkey]

Something has to be actually a SLAPP to get SLAPPed. It's not just a magic wand to make lawsuits disappear. Arguably it would be pointless and expensive, but it would be expensive to whoever lost because the prevailing plaintiff in such a lawsuit generally gets their fees paid. Of course so can the defendant. If Harmony is feeling particularly vindictive and can find someone to take it on contingency I can't say it would be a good idea but it would be a source of ongoing entertainment for me, at least.

Yeah, I know what it stands for. And wouldn't any competant lawyer move for an anti-SLAPP* when the issue at-hand is whether or not their website can publish one or more stories? Especially in a muddy case like this, where they might have every right to publish it?

The lawsuit would literally be Harmony telling SCP to take that off the godamned internet.

EDIT: and yeah, I agree, the discovery alone would be hilarious. But let's not act like a lawsuit is the logical next step here. It's extremely unlikely, and unlikely to succeed if it did happen.

EDIT AGAIN: For the slow people, here's my entirely unbiased version of how this would go: (add screeching retard noises where appropriate)

Spoiler

"We move this suit be dismissed because Plaintiff agreed to publication of said writings."

"BUT THE CREATIVE COMMONS LICENSE-"

"Yes, your honor, Plaintiff admits to being aware of a License existing that supports defense's counter-motion."

"BUT IT ISN'T AT ALL CLEAR WHETHER OR NOT THE LICENSE APPLIES!"

"Defense submits Exhibit A, which includes several years of chat logs indicating Plaintiff is fine with their work being published on this website, and furthermore agreeing with Defendant's methodology the whole time."

"BUT THAT WAS BEFORE I GOT ASS-MAD AT THE INTERNAL POLITICS OF THE WEBSITE!"

"Plaintiff openly admits that their case is merely to punish website for internal, political disagreements, and that is not a class of action this court can remedy through copyright law, and also Plaintiff can show no monetary damages."

blah blah blah, tens of thousands of dollars, yadda yadda, case dismissed with prejudice. A-thank-you.

 

[BurnerPhone]

Here is exactly wht Roget should pursue legal action against SCP to retain the rights to his articles: Roget is a 25/26 year old man with probably a liberal arts degree and zero marketable skills. Sorry buddy but that's the truth. If he fights to retain the rights to his work, he can then take his 300+ good-to-mediocre, rework them,he wrote and publish them under his own name, going from "unemployed loser" to "published author" overnight. 3 part series : "100 stories from the Illuminati, Vol. 1 - 3".

 

[AnOminous]

Yeah, I know what it stands for. And wouldn't any competant lawyer move for an anti-SLAPP* when the issue at-hand is whether or not their website can publish one or more stories? Especially in a muddy case like this, where they might have every right to publish it?

The lawsuit would literally be Harmony telling SCP to take that off the godamned internet.

EDIT: and yeah, I agree, the discovery alone would be hilarious. But let's not act like a lawsuit is the logical next step here. It's extremely unlikely, and unlikely to succeed if it did happen.

Well that's why you actually talk to a lawyer who specializes in intellectual property and find out if you even have anything going on. I don't know the critical facts anyone would need, either. I'm pretty sure just a non-prominent link at the very bottom of the page with absolutely nothing pointing you to it that says "HA HA YOU GIVE UP ALL RIGHTS TO EVERYTHING FOREVER" isn't enough, though.

But if you had anything like a clickthrough, the terms of the license are in the plainest of English, and come with a summary that accurately summarizes them:

And the full license, which has pretty minimal gobbledygook: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode

At least from what I see on the site, I don't see anything remotely resembling a clickthrough or sufficient notice, so I don't see how it could be a SLAPP.

The lawsuit would literally be Harmony telling SCP to take that off the godamned internet.

Or like I said it would be entertaining. And no, I don't think it's very likely to happen, but that really depends on how vindictive SCP/Harmony are with each other.

If he fights to retain the rights to his work, he can then take his 300+ good-to-mediocre, rework them,he wrote and publish them under his own name, going from "unemployed loser" to "published author" overnight. 3 part series : "100 stories from the Illuminati, Vol. 1 - 3".

Or end up like Ken Penders, winning the right to a bunch of material that isn't worth much outside of its specific universe.

 

[AStupidMonkey]

Well that's why you actually talk to a lawyer who specializes in intellectual property and find out if you even have anything going on. I don't know the critical facts anyone would need, either. I'm pretty sure just a non-prominent link at the very bottom of the page with absolutely nothing pointing you to it that says "HA HA YOU GIVE UP ALL RIGHTS TO EVERYTHING FOREVER" isn't enough, though.

But if you had anything like a clickthrough, the terms of the license are in the plainest of English, and come with a summary that accurately summarizes them:

View attachment 1959295

And the full license, which has pretty minimal gobbledygook: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode

At least from what I see on the site, I don't see anything remotely resembling a clickthrough or sufficient notice, so I don't see how it could be a SLAPP.

Sure, they should have drafted the rules better. But, assuming both parties show up and do at least the bare minimum effort, 99% of courts are going to find that Harmony was even more aware of the website's written (and even unwritten) policies than other users, and even actively participated in administering said rules. What you would want here, for a slam-dunk, is some policy that explicitly states that anyone can decide to rescind their publications.

This isn't some fly-by-night scam where they tricked Harmony into hastily publishing on their website and went "GOTCHA NOW!" It is extremely clear that Harmony was giving them permission to publish her writing, and absent some other agreement, there's no reason at all to suspect a court is going to censor a publication based on rescinded consent YEARS LATER because they trooned out and threw a shit-fit.

Even if it's "the right thing to do" by some other ethics.

Oh yeah. And I play "Blue Eyes Not A Lawyer" face-down in defense mode. Your move, internet.

EDIT:

Here is exactly wht Roget should pursue legal action against SCP to retain the rights to his articles: Roget is a 25/26 year old man with probably a liberal arts degree and zero marketable skills. Sorry buddy but that's the truth. If he fights to retain the rights to his work, he can then take his 300+ good-to-mediocre, rework them,he wrote and publish them under his own name, going from "unemployed loser" to "published author" overnight. 3 part series : "100 stories from the Illuminati, Vol. 1 - 3".

I doubt there's anything preventing Rogarmony from doing exactly that. Trouble is that it's already published elsewhere for free, but I'd be surprised if anything in the CC license explicitly states that the website gets EXCLUSIVE copyright privileges over somebody's work. Especially being that SCP has balkanized to and from several other sites already. I presume many authors post in more than one forum?