#site67 - Staff Chat, September 2018
<DrMagnus> kaktus pms
<trickOrTretter> Oh lord.
<Ard> big oof
<DrMagnus> He's actually just offering to help tag stuff when he has time
<Ard> I mean I figured as much
<Ard> The problem is that I assume you don't want him on your team
<DrMagnus> He's not on the team.
<trickOrTretter> DrMagnus, if you're thinking about giving Kaktus the member rank, would that give him access to the closed discord channel?
<DrMagnus> Nnnnnnope.
<trickOrTretter> Ok, cool.
<DrMagnus> Also, I don't plan on it
<trickOrTretter> Gotcha
<Soulless> DrMagnus, would watch if he actually does tagging
<Soulless> unfortunately when he was on my team zyn was pretty consistent in letting me know he didn't actually do work DrMagnus
<taylor_itkin> trickortretter: why do you hate kaktus so much
<trickOrTretter> taylor_itkin, you remember June?
<taylor_itkin> Yes
<trickOrTretter> Well, part of the fiasco was Kaktus' initial response to people's response.
<taylor_itkin> On the reddit
<Soulless> taylor_itkin, kaktus threw tretter under the bus on reddit repeatedly basically
<Soulless> in public
<taylor_itkin> Jeez
<trickOrTretter> More or less, yes
<taylor_itkin> Are there links to this
<trickOrTretter> He did it again last week
<DrMagnus> He asked if he could tag, I said "Sure. Ask questions in 11 if you're not sure of a tag"
<trickOrTretter> I didn't see it until earlier today though
<DrMagnus> Jesus christ, why?
<trickOrTretter> DrMagnus, there was a thread on reddit about the drama
<trickOrTretter> I can re-find his post
DrMagnus sighs.
<Varaxous> Right after he was removed from mod on reddit he went into the voice chat and started talking shit
<Varaxous> For SCPD
<Soulless> taylor_itkin, once he was booted off modship for, among other things, deleting people for disagreeing with him or not liking things he posted and posting about their dislike of things, he'd basically claimed the entire mod team betrayed his friendship to them and apparently still shits on them to this day
<DrMagnus> Argh, SCPD.
<DrMagnus> I can barely stand being there for short bursts of time.
<DrMagnus> tbf, we all do shit on him these days.
<DrMagnus> ....for things he does.
<trickOrTretter>
0 votes and 33 comments so far on Reddit
www.reddit.com
<trickOrTretter> This was in response to a longer comment chain
<DrMagnus> Christ alive.
<trickOrTretter> I also want to note
<trickOrTretter> I did not support Kaktus post telling people to delete system32 at all
<trickOrTretter> But I was afraid of Kaktus lashing out
<trickOrTretter> WHICH HE DID
<trickOrTretter> When I finally did comment on his actions as a mod.
<Soulless> taylor_itkin, mind you he's historically been chronically shitty to various people here
<trickOrTretter> *r/scp mod
<DrMagnus> He's also **incredibly** fragile about his writing. [that's what we call insecurity... now look at his author page... compensating much?]
<DrMagnus> I've basically drawn a line in the sand on the wiki with regards to his sniping in comment threads
<taylor_itkin> Yeah I’ve noticed that
<Roget> A lot of his more recent stuff seems to have been more about getting attention than anything else
<trickOrTretter> I have zero respect for Kaktus, and I fully believe he is a toxic presence on the wiki.
<Zyn> Roget: yeah, I updated his O5 record
<Zyn> and then he downvoted my scip afterward
<Zyn> he rarely reads my stuff
<Soulless> taylor_itkin, like idk if you were here he basically edited 3000 to be a joke without asking the co-authors if they were cool with it
<Soulless> taylor_itkin, and he then basically never apologized for doing it
<trickOrTretter> I'm honestly kind of disgusted with myself for for ever looking up to him. [amen brother]
<DrMagnus> trickortretter: I think I'm with you on this one. Whatever writing ability he has (and honestly, it's hit or miss to me) is not offsetting his behavior.
<Ard> Soulless: wait when was this
<Soulless> ARD, wasn't that his issue with joreth or naw
<DrMagnus> He wasn't like this when I came back that I noticed.
<DrMagnus> then suddenly he went dick-a-palooza
<trickOrTretter> Oh, and one other thing, taylor_itkin.
<Soulless> DrMagnus, no he was a dick in here
<Ard> i barely know what the issue with joreth was
<trickOrTretter> He had the opportunity to be JS under ARD and procy for CO and help with intros
<trickOrTretter> Provided he apologized to me and a few others.
<trickOrTretter> He decided to not do that.
<Soulless> DrMagnus, you weren't in here but basically when kaktus left modship and came back he demanded to be a mod again
[LOL!]
<Roget> something happened with kaktus and joreth?
<Ard> all I know is that he had to apologize to joreth for something
<Soulless> DrMagnus, with his same captain position
<taylor_itkin> Jesus
<taylor_itkin> I opened the flood gates
<Soulless> DrMagnus, when moose told him at the time to just be js and work way back up again, he balked, was super insulted that we dare do this to him
<DrMagnus> Keep in mind, he was banned within like...
<Crocutacrocuta> Is kaktus our kanye
<trickOrTretter> I keep this to myself generally, taylor_itkin, because I know my opinion of Kaktus seriously impedes my actions surrounding him
<DrMagnus> A month of me joining sssc
<taylor_itkin> I’ll be honest
<taylor_itkin> I like kaktus
<Ard> i'm still salty about the way he was banned tbh
<Soulless> DrMagnus, for several months after that he'd essentially say things like
<Soulless> DrMagnus, "I'm not staff but if I were staff I'd X"
<Soulless> DrMagnus, and then he'd get super passive aggressive when people wouldn't X, and then he'd ragequit
<DrMagnus> I mean, real talk, I never plan to extend JS to him in any team I run
<taylor_itkin> I’m on good terms with him and he is, I think, someone struggling with something
[ya think?]
<taylor_itkin> I think something along the lines of a narcissism disorder
<trickOrTretter> We're all struggling with something, taylor_itkin
<Soulless> Varaxous, he was literally just a non-staff member hanging out in here
<trickOrTretter> That does not excuse his behavior
<Soulless> Varaxous, because we do that for some people
<Ard> kaktus has a lot of shit to work through
<Soulless> DrMagnus, it eventually came to a head where he among other things tried to get metaphysician banned without due process
<Ard> Soulless: i thought he was just among the people pushing for it
<trickOrTretter> Oh fuck
<Soulless> ARD, no he literally in the logs said "this is our chance to get this guy banned"
<Ard> oof
<Soulless> ARD, "I don't care if it's a back alley thing"
<DrMagnus> I mean.
<DrMagnus> We've all done that.
<DrMagnus> Let's not try and be high-grounded paragons here, we've all gunned for someone at one time or another.
<LadyKatie> Metaphysician is super extra cringe, but you gotta go through the hoops
<Crocutacrocuta> DrMagnus: it went into "clearly not joking or venting" territory
<DrMagnus> It's the responsibility of the other staff to metaphorically hold you back.
<Soulless> DrMagnus, there's "we can get this guy banned" and there's "I don't care if we don't go through due process"
03:28:32: <DrMagnus> Soulless: Ahh, I see.
03:28:36: <DrMagnus> Yes, that's fucked.
<Soulless> taylor_itkin, basically, as much as I respect kaktus as a writer, he's been shitty to a lot of people in here
<Soulless> taylor_itkin, myself included
<taylor_itkin> Soulless: *nod*
<Soulless> taylor_itkin, he and I have had this crazy thing where I apologize for shit that, frankly, I shouldn't apologize for, he got super personally hurt when I removed him from junior staff, my junior staff which is explicitly a trial staff period, for how horrifically he handled r/scp
<Roget> I feel like kaktus is going down the same path fishmonger and djoric have walked before him and it's very sad
<Ard> Roget: djkaktus is pulling like, an inverse fish
<trickOrTretter> Roget, the question will be whether he fishmongers his way out though
<trickOrTretter> And try to "get back at the wiki" by kneecapping a lot of popular articles.
<Ard> where fish was trying to exert his influence by yanking his shit off the site
<Ard> kaktus is trying to exert his influence by being as prolific as you, Roget
<Soulless> taylor_itkin, among other things like not critting, to the point where zyn would PJM me multiple times to ask me to notify kaktus that despite being active and jun ior staff he was doing no work
<LadyKatie> Kaktus seemed really cool when I first joined. But then again, so did everyone. Never thought I'd be here tbh.
<TyGently> kaktus blocked me for reasons I still do not understand
<Soulless> taylor_itkin, beforehand we had this weird thing where I'd apologize and he'd say he was so hurt that he doesn't know if he can forgive me for, among other things, him being made unwelcome in SSSC for repeatedly contributing passive aggressive comments and trying to get meta banned behind the books
<Soulless> taylor_itkin, like literally not forgiving me for months and essentially hanging that shit above my head, very malipulatively
<DrMagnus> Low-key, I'm doing everything I can to keep people from agreeing with him about re-writing old skips
03:31:44: <DrMagnus> 'cause Gabriel Jade rewriting with him is one thing, but he's gunning for a bunch of highly rated "low quality" series 1 skips
<trickOrTretter> DrMagnus, we could start requiring /all/ rewrites go thrugh Rewrite team
<taylor_itkin> DrMagnus: this I agree with
<taylor_itkin> DrMagnus: the 682 thing made me uncomfortable
<Soulless> taylor_itkin, so my general opinion of kaktus is the following
<Soulless> taylor_itkin, he's great until you're no longer useful to him
<Soulless> taylor_itkin, then you're shit on his shoes
<DrMagnus> Author rewrites are...a thing we can't control.
<Crocutacrocuta> DrMagnus: rewrite happily seems of the opinion that they're not going to entertain the idea
<DrMagnus> And shouldn't.
<Crocutacrocuta> Yeah, it is
<Crocutacrocuta> No bueno as a philosophy
<trickOrTretter> ?djkaktus
<Jarvis> trickortretter: kaktus is not welcome in SSSC as of 9/18/17. Note that this is "for now", not "forever". This matter shouldn't be discussed outside of SSSC -- nothing good will come from public shaming.
<DrMagnus> Christ.
<DrMagnus> A year ago
<fieldstone> I just saw that reddit post, what a crock of shit
<LadyKatie> Then it's "I wanna rewrite this obscure series 2!" And it snowballs from there
<Soulless> taylor_itkin, I've literally yet to see him put up with any real disagreement to anything he says, ever
<taylor_itkin> Soulless: this I agree with
<Zyn> > Soulless taylor_itkin, among other things like not critting, to the point where zyn would PJM me multiple times to ask me to notify kaktus that despite being active and jun ior staff he was doing no work
<Zyn> to be fair
<Zyn> he was making a fair bit of usage of his JS position
<Zyn> just like
03:33:41: <Zyn> not actually critting much
<Zyn> (as in, maybe 3-4 crits a month iirc)
<Ard> man, i still feel like the "not welcome for now" thing is a crock of shit
<Ard> like, the dude is banned from here
<Ard> let's be fuckin' real
<Ard> but we didn't have the damn balls to ban him so we just put this whole "you're not welcome here" thing
<Ard> and it still boiled down to "we don't want you here but we don't want to ban you"
<Soulless> ARD, frankly I am all for him coming back provided he stops fucking manipulating people, abusing others, and actually apologizes for his behavior
<DrMagnus> ARD: We're tied by the history of abuse in our past.
<Ard> and that sticks in my craw because as far as i'm concerned we need to take responsibility for our actions and do what we think we're doing
<DrMagnus> He complained that he's never going to be able to get over his past.
<DrMagnus> It's not like he /can't/ be a good staff member. We've seen it before.
<DrMagnus> But I feel like he's gonna end up like scanny more than anything else.
[the ultimate staff insult]
<DrMagnus> continuially skirting the rules until we can hem and haw enough to be like "get out."
<LadyKatie> That's sad.
<Soulless> ARD, My position is repeatedly that so long as he stops treating people poorly and actually works to treat people right, I am all for him coming back here
<Crocutacrocuta> Yeah, kaktus's ban from 67 was a fiasco and a half no matter your opinion on whether he deserved it
<Crocutacrocuta> We basically made up a new ban category
<DrMagnus> For every crit post, there's 3-5 shit-snipes on his own work.
<fieldstone> It annoys me but it's always line toeing enough
<fieldstone> Somehow
<Soulless> CrocutaCrocuta, it was actually discussed among admins for a long time and iirc he was not the only person who was asked to leave
<Ard> i'd like him back too. for all the shit he's put people in here through, he's been through a serious amount of shit himself
<Ard> like, i remember when we were chuckling about him being a nazi
<Ard> but there was actually someone coming in like thrice a week during the 3000 contest
<Ard> to accuse him of fascism
<DrMagnus> ARD: Yeah, a bunch of which he's gleefully put his own face out there for.
<LadyKatie> I remember the facisim thing
<Ard> not to mention the time someone tried to doxx him
[how many times does it need to be pointed out; the dude puts his full birth name and telephone on the site, his webpage that he advertises, and in the chat]
<Crocutacrocuta> Going through shit does not entitle you to have your other shit overlooked
<DrMagnus> ARD: real talk? In light of all the shit that I've seen him pull lately, I have no idea what to think about that whole fiasco
<Crocutacrocuta> As far as I'm concerned kaktus blew his last chance with CO
<Crocutacrocuta> With a very reasonable "fucking apologize" "no"
<Crocutacrocuta> No one is //entitled// to staff
<Soulless> ARD, I'm not saying that he hasn't been through shit, but him being through shit does not allow him to among other things judge other people's abuse and then say it was basically harmless
<Soulless> ARD, compared to his own
<Soulless> ARD, and then tell the person, who was abused by the person he judged to be harmless, that they're unsafe to be around now
<Ard> Soulless: no disagreements there
<Ard> i'm not saying we should let him back in here unequivocally
<Crocutacrocuta> He's had his rope, he hung himself with it, and then made backup nooses in case the first didn't take
<Soulless> ARD, there's a line there, and the last line and the reasons he booted me were frankly gaslighting and abusive in his own right
<Ard> How was it gaslighting?
<Soulless> ARD, there's a massive disparity to imply that I'm the uncomfortable one when he's the one saying that my abuse was, compared to him, basically easy cakes
<Crocutacrocuta> Frankly it would be a nightmare for staff cohesion as well considering how unimageinably shittily he treated and still treats a lot of people in here
<Crocutacrocuta> And I don't think he's ever unburning those bridges
<Ard> man I'm going to need logs of those convo
<Ard> *convos
<Crocutacrocuta> Even if he wanted to, which he doesn't
<Soulless> ARD, like he's not comfortable being around me because he minimized /my/ abuse, and when I explained my disagreement, he said I was the person minimizing him
<Soulless> ARD, you were literally there
<Ard> Soulless: I know I was there but from what I /remember/ of it he was trying to back out of what he said vis-a-vis minimizing your abuse
<Soulless> ARD, you were online and involved in the convo, and we talked about it in PMs after where we reviewed and you agreed that shit was not kosher
<Soulless> ARD, yes, and then he banned me saying I was making him uncomfortable
<Soulless> ARD, later on, he told me he couldn't see me as unbiased enough when I said I didn't think 008 or some other number merited a rewrite
<Crocutacrocuta> But ARD, why should he be in here when he's been booted or refused every staff position and treats people like shit?
<Ard> CrocutaCrocuta: to be honest? he shouldn't. i'd like him back but he shouldn't be back
<Crocutacrocuta> What is the value added beyond "he's been through shit' which we might as well open the gates to meta or voct too
<Crocutacrocuta> Then //why are you arguing he should be back//??????????????????????????????
<Crocutacrocuta> Why do you do this
<taylor_itkin> Man I wish I hadn’t started this
<Soulless> ARD, and as much as I want him to be back in this room and a productive member, and as much as I want him to be the swell, easygoing guy he is to everyone that doesn't disagree with him
<Soulless> ARD, he isn't, and he's not, and that's why he's not in here
<LadyKatie> Just because you're going through shit doesn't mean you're allowed to treat others like shit. Alsojfc, suffering isn't a competition, and I hate those suffering olympics types.
<Ard> CrocutaCrocuta: I'm /not/. I recognize that my statement about him going through shit sounds like an attempt to justify letting him back in but it was me poorly stringing together thoughts about how A) i miss when he wasn't a pariah in here and B) how he's been on the receiving end of ugly nonsense himself
<Soulless> ARD, I am 100% against whatever ugly nonsense comes his way, and it's wrong, but it also doesn't make his behavior ok, and I also wish he wasn't a pariah, but he's a pariah because several members in this room have been treated really poorly by him, there's a lot of animosity here
<Soulless> ARD, I can't say much for anyone else but I was down for him joining my JS when he apologized to me and said he just wanted to get back in this room and be friendly with everyone again
<Soulless> ARD, but then wherever that kaktus went, he never resurfaced again, and we've been dealing with this now
<Soulless> ARD, and I don't understand it, and the only conclusions I can garner is that he either does not understand when he harms people, refuses to acknowledge when he harms people, or believes harming people is the right thing to do if he is the one doing it
<Ard> I think kaktus believes that he's justified in hurting people if he feels that they've hurt or wronged him