Opinion Section 230 Isn't The Problem, Payment Networks Are


Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act is one of the most important pieces of legislation in American history. Passed into law in 1996, it has overseen the entirety of the consumer Internet’s development. Its premise is simple: Internet service providers and platform operators are not responsible for civil damages that result from user-generated content that they host or manage. These protections are why the United States is the first choice for hosting any digital service. Without them, the entire world would suffer a less free Internet.

I have operated a controversial website called the Kiwi Farms for 8 years and was featured in ZeroHedge in 2019 after telling New Zealand police I would not be surrendering my user’s information to them. My website thrives and doubles in size each year, primarily thanks to Section 230. I can allow my users to say almost anything they want without having to worry about being sued for what they say. Without these essential protections, I would not be able to host in the United States.

Unfortunately, Section 230 has been defamed as the reason Facebook, Twitter, Google, et al behave the way they do. This is not true. These businesses censor because they have personal motivations to do so. More importantly, they have financial motivations to do so.

I hope to convince a reasonable person that:

1. Payment networks must be regulated to give fair access.
2. Section 230 is essential and modifying it harms online speech.
3. Big tech does not need Section 230, but you do.
4. You should learn how to use cryptocurrencies right now.

The payment networks are more powerful than big tech.
Without the consent of all four major payment networks to stay in business, even mighty tech giants are vulnerable to lose billions of dollars in revenue. The various agreements enforced by the four major payment networks (MasterCard, Visa, Amex, and Discover) impose rules that any business wanting to exist in the digital economy must obey. Not all these rules are written.

The big payment networks like to stay out of the public eye. They avoid attention by using blacklists which they claim only banks can add to, but which they manage and share. You also never deal with the payment network directly. An eCommerce site passes your credit card information to a “payment gateway”, which is plugged into a “payment processor”, and that payment processor handles communications with the payment networks. Each of these are usually different companies. When you get banned from processing payments, you are told so by your payment gateway or payment processor, but the decision can come from much higher up. If it were, you’d be lucky to find out.

Consider a company like Patreon. They are an online crowdfunding service which handles donations from many supporters to many online content creators. Patreon has its own rules, uses Stripe as a payment gateway and payment processor, agrees to Stripe’s terms of service, and then Stripe coordinates with all major payment networks which each have their own set of agreements. That means every creator on Patreon must obey six different sets of rules. If the gateway were its own company, it would be seven. It is no wonder so many people get banned, as only the most tepid and inoffensive content creators could hope to meet so many different standards!

Patreon must keep Stripe happy to stay in business, and Stripe must keep all four payment networks happy to stay in business. If any one of MasterCard, Visa, Amex, or Discover pass a rule, then it affects the entire downstream ecosystem. If Discover (5% of the market) says an industry or behavior is prohibited, then Stripe must enforce that rule on all the merchants on their service (even merchants who do not process Discover). If Discover were to cut ties with Stripe, then Stripe would lose at least 5% of their transactions over night and any merchants who do want to process Discover cards. That is a large and dramatic blow to any company operating on small margins.

I do not claim it is MasterCard’s fault that Twitter banned Trump. I am sure Twitter makes many stupid decisions all on its own. The problem is that these rules—how they are enforced, the secrecy in which they are enforced, and unappealable finality of these decisions—stifle competition. Startups like Gab quickly find themselves told they are not allowed to make money. This problem has never existed before on the scale that it does now.

This phenomenon transcends the type of startup. All alt-tech is trodden upon equally. Patreon competitor New Project 2 was first banned from a payment processor at the demand of Discover, then after finding a new payment processor was put on MATCH (the MasterCard blocklist), prohibiting the company from ever finding another payment processor. If Dick Masterson (the owner of NP2) made a new company to try and get around MATCH for the purpose of continuing NP2, he would very likely find his person on that blocklist directly, ending all his businesses at once.

These blocklists, and the risk management factors which decide who goes on them, are “trade secrets” and you cannot even sue to figure out why you were added to them. New Project 2 was blacklisted for “Violation of Standards”, which prohibits it from even using so-called high-risk processors. Nobody knows what “Violation of Standards” means. Dick only found some details of New Project 2’s blacklisting because he called the banks and annoyed the right people for days until they reluctantly admitted who was actually at fault. Payment networks claim they do not add merchants to the blacklists, and that only partner banks can, but they will call these banks and tell them to do it on their behalf, and the banks are not in any position to refuse.

PayPal has not been mentioned so far, but rest assured they are one of the most egregious and will drop you first. BitChute, a video platform competing with YouTube, was banned from PayPal. ZeroHedge itself is banned from using PayPal. To this day, because of my association with the Kiwi Farms, I cannot use the Uber app to get a taxi because Uber uses PayPal to process credit cards and I am banned from PayPal.

Before we regulate the Internet, why don’t we try to regulate the payment networks?
Give the market a fair chance at competing with tech giants by enforcing fair access to credit and debit card processing!

The Office of the Comptroller of Currency proposed new regulation which would require banks (and the services they run, including payment networks) to stop industry blacklisting and require specific examples of risk to ban a merchant from processing cards. It was called Fair Access to Financial Services (OCC-2020-0042-0001).

These “fair access” rules were finalized on January 14th, 2021. They were set to take effect on April 1st. Placing this on April Fool’s Day was a bit too prescient, because the Chairman immediately resigned after passing this rule, and the fair access rule was formally put on an indefinite pause on January 28th, 2021 – one week after Biden assumed office.

This rule was politicized as a way for Republicans to force poor, innocent multinational trillion dollar banking institutions to do business with ‘evil’ industries like oil drilling and the NRA. The Chairman of the OCC made note that it should be an act of congress to regulate those industries, not unilaterally enforced by nameless risk management committees behind closed doors.

It is unlikely that payment network regulation will find bipartisan support. The payment networks do a good job of picking their targets. Controversial but left-leaning organizations like Nation of Islam appear to have no issue processing cards, despite their virulent antisemitism rivaling anything found on Gab. Perhaps if Planned Parenthood suddenly needed cash upfront to perform abortions things would change. Until then, free speech will be clustered alongside weapons and Alaskan oil prospecting as an industry that is safe to punch down at.

So, if bankers are above regulation for now, why not regulate social media?

We have already amended Section 230 and it sucked.
There are holes poked into Section 230 protections already. When Section 230 was first passed in 1996, Congress effectively legalized piracy. Platforms were immunized even from copyright infringement damages. So, if pirates could stay anonymous, there was no one to sue for distributing copies of movies.

To patch the piracy loophole, in 1998, we passed the DMCA. This act created the process for the copyright takedown system that is infamous on websites like YouTube. Rights Holders can now take down copyrighted content and sue the services directly if they refuse to comply. Unfortunately, the process created is so sloppy and awful it is a continuous nightmare for a host like me (and everyone on YouTube) to deal with.

For one, there is no recourse for flagrant or malicious DMCA takedowns. There is no requirement that the person sending the DMCA prove they own the copyright, to have a copyright ID, to be an attorney, or anything to that effect. I routinely receive copyright complaints that I must take seriously for content they don’t even own. OnlyFans (a Grand Cayman company) makes it clear in their Terms of Service that they do not own the content they host. Despite that, OnlyFans routinely sends me DMCA takedown notices for their 3rd party content through a man out of California who is not an attorney. This is a total farce, and there is nothing I can do. I still must reply with a counter notice, but they never take it to court and I never even hear back. I have no legal recourse against this abuse.

This will be everything online if further loopholes were carved into Section 230. Imagine if defamation was handled the same way the copyright system is. Random trolls could issue takedowns for your Tweets and Facebook posts. You would have to send a legal counter notice with your real name and address to the troll to reinstate your messages. There would be no validations in place. Your speech would be at the mercy of the whims of insane people online.

In this environment where platforms could be held liable for things said on their websites, only the richest of them could afford survival. I am currently dealing with two lawsuits. They are completely baseless, insane ramblings from insane people, but they will still cost a lot of money to deal with. There is no way to get fees from them because they have nothing to take. Without Section 230, I would lose a layer of protection enabling me to deal with these lawsuits for much less than it would if we had to take it to trial. It would destroy the site, especially since I cannot charge cards normally to generate consistent revenue to fund my defenses with.

President Trump and people in general seem desperate just for revenge. The rabble directed towards Section 230 is out of anger. “If only this blow were delivered and 230 were repealed,” they think, “Twitter would be plunged into financial ruin overnight.” Maybe a Samson Option is what we need?

Unfortunately, it is not so simple. Twitter would adapt and become more censorious to reduce its civil liabilities. All US search engines would have their results curated by anyone willing to complain about defamation—including, and perhaps especially, by public figures with something to hide. The smaller and less profitable sites hosted out of the US (Gab, Parler, 4chan, 8kun, Kiwi Farms, Encyclopedia Dramatica, thousands of small, federated services and communities) would either be destroyed outright, forced go private, or driven out of the United States. It would be a total disaster for the little guys.

Jack Posobiec made a comment recently that Justice Clarence Thomas had ruled Section 230 was unconstitutional. This is not true. The opinion he cited as ‘sauce’ was not case law, but rather an opinion in the strictest sense. Thomas did not even claim Section 230 was unconstitutional. This misinformation was seen hundreds of thousands of times and further defamed the public perception of a law we rely on to even conduct these conversations about Section 230 online.

So, if we can’t regulate the banks and Section 230 is actually good, what can we do?
What Clarence Thomas actually suggested was that we might have to regulate the supermassive tech companies as ‘common carriers’ or utilities. Regulating only the largest social media networks could work. You can either be a monopoly, or you can be unregulated, you cannot be both. I maintain that regulating payment networks first would be ideal, but that will not happen.

There is some hope that FedNow, an atrociously named US answer to SEPA, could offer some relief to this payment network bottleneck on speech. I am not optimistic for it, but it is good for more people to know it is supposedly in development.

Cryptocurrencies bypass the payment network bottleneck now.
The more people who know how to transact in cryptocurrency, the freer the Internet will be. Sites like buybitcoinworldwide.com (not an affiliate url) contain simple guides on how to get into the ecosystem regardless of your country. You do not have to invest any money in. Just learn how crypto works, how to get it, and how to send it. That knowledge cannot be taken away from you—and it might prove useful, sooner rather than later.
 
Haha NOol doubleposted. What a faggot.

Serious though. Thank you for being a (reluctant) champion of my beverage of choice Freeze Peach. The diversity of voices on this site is staggering. From white nationalist asshats, to bleeding heart lesbians, to snaggly toothed Brits. There's even Mormons lurking here, and trannies. All duking things out in a thunderdome of ideas and shitposting.
 
A lot of people want to attack Trump for doing nothing. The reality of the situation in the white house was very different. Trump was an outsider who knew nothing of the political establishment. When he got in he hired people who didn't want anything to do with a conservative populist agenda. You saw in 2019, when he hired and fired the right people, things were getting done. That's when the ban on critical theory went into affect, that's when hundreds of miles of border wall started getting built, when he passed the moratorium on work visas.

It's not that Trump wanted to do nothing, as we saw in the book Fire and Fury (the most accurate depiction of Trump's administration), his administration was paralyzed by incompetence. We know Trump is a competent leader, everyone around him wasn't. The next time he gets into office he'll secure the internet and payment processors.
The first rule of leadership is that everything is your fault. Trump has no one to blame but himself at this point, even if he was the sole competent leader then it's still up to him to hire competent people. The fact that he didn't do that and that he kept trying to make deals with people who didn't want to make deals is his problem. There's a lot to like about Trump but he also failed in several key ways that resulted in him leaving the White House. He failed to assess the true nature of the problem. And no one is responsible for that except him.

You literally have no idea what the meaning of the words are that you're saying. There is nothing to enforce. There's nothing to try and enforce. It's a law issuing protections. It is not a statute to seek penalties under.
Then it sucks to suck especially with the political landscape the way it is now. It's been an honor :semperfidelis:
 
You literally have no idea what the meaning of the words are that you're saying. There is nothing to enforce. There's nothing to try and enforce. It's a law issuing protections. It is not a statute to seek penalties under.
The problem is dummies think 230 is a problem when it’s actually the thing keeping the internet alive. All the talking heads on either side want it gone for their own reasons, none of them good.
 
You literally have no idea what the meaning of the words are that you're saying. There is nothing to enforce. There's nothing to try and enforce. It's a law issuing protections. It is not a statute to seek penalties under.
Hi Dear Leader, I wanted to ask that do you think that gay baker cake decision by SCOTUS and Operation Choke point is part of the reason that big tech and the big banks use as a precedent to get rid of whoever they want. And do you think using anti trust legislation could theoretically stop this giant corporate America monopoly?
 
Just build your own social network! Just build your own payment processor! Just build your own payment network! Just build your own bank! Just build your own country .... hoh wait too far.. too far!!!
 
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Hi Dear Leader, I wanted to ask that do you think that gay baker cake decision by SCOTUS and Operation Choke point is part of the reason that big tech and the big banks use as a precedent to get rid of whoever they want. And do you think using anti trust legislation could theoretically stop this giant corporate America monopoly?
I believe that we live in a dead gay country and nothing is ever going to happen that benefits you for the rest of your life. Buy crypto.
 
I hope to convince a reasonable person that:

1. Payment networks must be regulated to give fair access.
2. Section 230 is essential and modifying it harms online speech.
3. Big tech does not need Section 230, but you do.
4. You should learn how to use cryptocurrencies right now.
I agree with the arguments you set forth in the article, however

I believe there is a much more fundamental problem at the root of the big tech/free speech crisis.

That problem consists of:
  1. The Left has now spent some 50-60 years in developing a powerful ideological framework to attack and silence their enemies
  2. The Left has countless numbers of activists who are willing to spend 24/7 sitting home alone in filth scanning every single online forum or network, making lists, working their way into moderation, trust and safety types of positions, organically finding ways to be offended or victimized, etc
  3. The default position for normal people who aren't involved in the Left/Right culture war is with the Left and its 'anti-hate/anti-racism./anti-bigotry'. Regardless of how actually hateful, racist, and bigoted the Left positions are in reality.
Starting in the 1960s the Left started their Long March Through the Institutions. And the Right treated these ideological crazies taking over universities as a joke. People to scoff at and nothing more. And as those ideological crazies started churning out their own successors in universities and students who studied under them, the Right once again scoffed that those students were in for a rude awakening once they met the real world.

Fast forward to the present and the Left has almost entirely captured the culture war narrative. The mainstream media openly has articles praising looting and violence from the Left, freaks teaching children about things that would have had the teacher arrested on the spot at one time, etc.

The Left has come to complete dominate the field because the Right has completely and utterly failed to understand the nature of the war they find themselves in.

Babbling about the importance of 'free speech' and 'marketplaces of ideas' just end up being translated to the public as the Right wanting to have 'free speech (to spread their hate and bigotry) and likewise for their 'marketplaces'.

Section 230 reform?
Ensuring the banking system isn't used as an ideological weapon?

Any of these technical or procedural type of attempts to solve the big tech/free speech crisis is not going to be successful because no matter what the solution is proposed or attempted will be treated as nothing more than the Right trying to assure there is a platform for their hate and bigotry.

This is a problem that has been created for decades and there is not going to be an easy, magical fix. The Right has wasted years making shitposts or 'facts and logic' posts where they think will cause normal people to rally to their side and it just isn't happening.

The Right will need to put in a comparable amount of effort into coming up with a counter Narrative to what the Left has developed over the past 50 to 60 years. That is a huge amount of work. Right now thousands and thousands of Leftwing academics are churning out the supporting work to silence and ban anything and everything on the Right. And until the Right decides to stop shitposting or writing their long and pointless defenses of free speech, and start coming up with a compelling counter-narrative to combat the dominate one from the Left, they will continue to be banned and silenced at every level of the communication infrastructure - moderation, tech giant, banking, or even the raw packets of Internet.
 
Crypto can and frequently is used without any exchange, just like cash. For many normies it's the most convenient way, but in Ukraine I paid rent selling Bitcoin to a woman in an office building guarded by a guy with grenades.
Tarded question: did cryptocurrencies help (in any way) the people in Texas during the blackouts?

I know it can be a silly argument, as in "was your Tesla usable during the blackouts?" but I think during those kind of situations, it can make or break the rapid implementation of crypto.
 
There is some hope that FedNow, an atrociously named US answer to SEPA, could offer some relief to this payment network bottleneck on speech. I am not optimistic for it, but it is good for more people to know it is supposedly in development.
I kinda want this to happen and you to be banned from it just so I can read the supreme court opinions of Kiwi Farms v. The Federal Reserve. Every US history textbook will have to carry a footnote about what the Kiwi Farms was/is when trying to explain landmark US Supreme Court cases.
 

Link to the about page for FedNow.
FedNowdiagram1 - Copy.png

Explanation below the diagram on the page said:
  1. In step 1, a sender (i.e., an individual or business) initiates a payment by sending a payment message to its financial institution through an end-user interface outside the FedNow Service. The sender’s financial institution is responsible for screening the payment according to its internal processes and requirements.
  2. In step 2, the sender’s financial institution submits a payment message to the FedNow Service.
  3. In step 3, the FedNow Service validates the payment message, for example, by verifying that the message meets message format specifications.
  4. In step 4, the FedNow Service sends the contents of the payment message to the receiver’s financial institution to seek confirmation that the receiver’s financial institution intends to accept the payment message. At this point, the receiver’s financial institution will have the opportunity to confirm or deny that it maintains the specified account.
  5. In step 5, the receiver’s financial institution sends a positive response to the FedNow Service, confirming that it intends to accept the payment message. Steps 4 and 5 are intended to reduce the number of misdirected payments and resulting exception cases that can occur in high-volume systems.
  6. In step 6, the FedNow Service debits and credits the designated master accounts of the sender’s and receiver’s financial institutions (or their correspondent financial institutions), respectively.
  7. In step 7, the FedNow Service sends a payment message forward to the receiver’s financial institution with an advice of credit and in parallel sends an acknowledgement to the sender’s financial institution, notifying it that settlement is complete.
  8. In step 8, the receiver’s financial institution credits the receiver’s account. As a term of the FedNow Service, the receiver’s financial institution must agree to make funds available to the receiver almost immediately after step 7. This crediting to the receiver’s account as well as the debiting of the sender’s account by their respective financial institutions happens outside the FedNow Service.
Wouldn't the banks themselves be a possible chokepoint in this system? Or are they generally less shitty about handling payments compared to Visa, Mastercard, etc?
 
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Wouldn't the banks themselves be a possible chokepoint in this system? Or are they generally less shitty about handling payments compared to Visa, Mastercard, etc?
Yes, but it's actually not impossible to open a bank. Banks are in that million dollar range. I could conceivably get enough money together to open a Kiwi Bank that relies on the FedNow service and advertise it as a Safe Space ™️ for offensive companies.

Starting a payment network? Like 40 million dollars just in passing government regulations, then congrats, you're Kiwi Card with 0% of the market share.
 
Agree, but this isn't going to age well.
The payment networks are more powerful than big tech.
The incoming regulations on crypto have little to do with anything outside of making sure that only big tech companies can control them.
 
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Does anyone see a pattern here?
  • Should racist/alt-right hate content be allowed in this forum?
  • Should racist/alt-right hate content be allowed on this site?
  • Should racist/alt-right hate content be allowed on this social network?
  • Should racist/alt-right hate content be allowed on this ISP?
  • Should racist/alt-right hate content be allowed access to banking?
Where 'racist/alt-right hate' is completely and solely defined by the Left.

You can waste your time dreaming of technical, legislative, or any other form of solution to big tech having almost entirely monopolistic ability to silence speech and content at will and without consequence.

Fine, you have put in the effort to setup your own banking infrastructure.

You will have public support for banning racist/alt-right hate content content to be transmitted at the packet level.
Ham radios, line of site laser communication, routers, CPUs?

There is no point where the Left throws their hands up and say "We give up!"

The Left has spent the last 50 to 60 years building the ideological framework to silence anything and everything they wish. And they have put a slick marketing finish on top of all that work that has the vast middleground of the public embrace it.

It doesn't matter what the medium is for your content. As long as the Right continues to completely fail in putting in a comparable Narrative for the public to embrace, big tech will continue to have the ability and support from the public to silence 'racist/alt-right hate content' no matter how ridiculous that label might be for the vast majority of content.
 
Interesting read, Null. Kudos!

Although not related to Section 230, there is another industry that faces many of the same problems with banking -- the legal marijuana industry. Because federal law still dictates marijuana as a Schedule 1 narcotic, most banks will not do business with the industry as a whole for fear of the Feds being able to seize assets. It's slowly changing, but up until now, it's been pretty much been a cash industry generating to the tune of 16 billion USD a year. Oregon had to build a new facility simply to collect the 3 million+ USD legal operators were paying in taxes (in cash) on a monthly basis. We're talking mountains of pure cash coming in on a daily basis and the problems involved with the simple logistics of processing so much cash.

And like you, Mastercard/Visa/etc. have blacklisted using their cards in perfectly legal marijuana dispensaries. It's pretty obvious when there are signs on the door that say cash only, yet they have an ATM for cash withdrawal right next to their front door, at least from the few dispensaries I've visited out of curiosity in Nevada and AZ.

In a nutshell, I totally agree with you about the banks and payment processors. They are playing God and politically posturing on what they morally accept or don't want to accept. And that's complete bullshit. If I want to buy a gun/ammo, pot/liquor or even make a political contribution to a cause they don't agree with, they should have ZERO fucking say in the matter. Process the damn transaction and be done with it, don't make me have to pass some kind of purity test to spend my money.

Love,
Slappy

:feels:
 
A good sign is someone on the Right is telling the rest of his side of the political spectrum to get up off their asses:

scr.png


The major corporations, including big tech, for years now have had virtually nothing but lobbying from leftwing organizations. The Right have done nothing but complain and slink off to their ever shrinking exile sites with their tails between their legs.

The ACLU, ADL, Southern Poverty Law Center, the plethora of Alphabet organizations, etc. There is no equivalent to these organizations on the Right - at least any that have any ability and competence in affecting change.

You are publishing or allowing content the Left wants silenced? These organizations are going to hounding you 24/7. It doesn't matter if you are posting on a giant like Google, walkie talkies, ham radio, smoke signals. They will come after you armed with the ideological weapons the Left have developed over the past half-century to label your content hate speech. And when your content is once again kicked off another medium or had its support infrastructure neutered, the public will cheer these groups on because they have embraced the Left's narrative of what is and isn't hate speech because the Right hasn't even bothered to try to come up with their own narrative for the public to embrace.
 
Payment networks are a hidden abuse, well not so hidden to Null. A somewhat related thing was how shortly before Benedict XVI resigned the Vatican was frozen out of the Swift international payments network. The moment Benedict resigned, this was reversed. It is a strange thing for under Benedict rules on dismissing pederast priests (a plague since V2) and other measures to ensure financial transparency and compliance with international banking rules have been put in place, and were working. Both of those matters have run into difficulty since then. Francis was trying to re-instate a Fra Inzoli who molested children in the Confessional, up to the moment he was jailed. If you look at Francis slobbering over the feet of migrants on Holy Thursday and spewing about 'Climate Change' you understand why. Benedict was at times a critical, interesting voice, despite the nasty mockery, but now they had someone who treats mass migration and the green con as religious dogma. Certain leaks showed that change in the Vatican was an aim of the Clintons and co. His shared hobbies with Gustavo Vera are not of concern to them.

tl;dr payment networks are perfect for deniable political wet works.
 
They're a private all-controlling corrupt oligopoly structure, they have the freedom to do what they want! REgUlAtiNg business is COMMUNISM!
 
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