Should child labor be an option instead of high school?

[Troonos]

Generally, as that is their job. As much as people like to rag on teachers, most of them are competent in at least their own curriculum.

You must not know any teachers. Your math teacher isn't a mathematician. Your biology teacher isn't a biologist. They graduated with education degrees and have to lesson plan to familiarize themselves with incoming curriculum just as homeschooling parents do.

 

[OrionBalls]

You must not know any teachers. Your math teacher isn't a mathematician. Your biology teacher isn't a biologist. They graduated with education degrees and have to lesson plan to familiarize themselves with incoming curriculum just as homeschooling parents do.

My mother (Biology/MA) and both Grandparents (English, Ag/General Sciences) on her side were teachers. The ladies I work with at the polls are retired teachers. Many of my friend group in church are likewise, retired teachers.

 

[Betonhaus]

Based on the homeschooling structure, would it be possible to have a hybrid system where students have class once a week where they get homework and help on anything they weren't able to figure out on their own?

 

[Brightstar777]

you should be forced to learn whether you like it or not, free will is an illusion anyway

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

I can't say I'd have a lot of confidence in a teenaged "electrician" or lineman who can't comprehend electricity. All you'd be creating is uneducated laborers who are a bit handy at best, not people practicing a skilled trade that can support themselves and contribute to society.

It's not like the trades haven't changed since the 15th century, the work requires a lot more education now because the systems are so complicated.

 

[Betonhaus]

I can't say I'd have a lot of confidence in a teenaged "electrician" or lineman who can't comprehend electricity. All you'd be creating is uneducated laborers who are a bit handy at best, not people practicing a skilled trade that can support themselves and contribute to society.

It's not like the trades haven't changed since the 15th century, the work requires a lot more education now because the systems are so complicated.

Trade schools already reteach critical courses like math. Even without the advanced stuff there are still things you can get a teenager to do like "hold this" or "run this line" where they can learn the details on the job

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

Trade schools already reteach critical courses like math. Even without the advanced stuff there are still things you can get a teenager to do like "hold this" or "run this line" where they can learn the details on the job

But if they learn it in high school they don't have to relearn it when studying their trade. They can work or study a trade they're interested in outside of school hours. Children aren't adults and so can't consent so they should have no options to make choices about these things.

Also, are these child laborers going to be paid the same wage as an adult worker doing the same job? If not you're just debasing wages like the factory owners did in the 19th century via child labor.

 

[Betonhaus]

But if they learn it in high school they don't have to relearn it when studying their trade. They can work or study a trade they're interested in outside of school hours.

Are these child laborers going to be paid the same wage as an adult worker doing the same job? If not you're just debasing wages like the factory owners did in the 19th century via child labor.

Apprentices already make less then certified tradespeople, they'll just get apprentice wages.

Ideally these kids would still get backing from their parents and so don't require work to survive, giving them an advantage in wage and hours negotiations

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

Apprentices already make less then certified tradespeople, they'll just get apprentice wages.

Why would I take on a child apprentice with no HS degree vs. an 18 year old adult with a HS degree? Especially if I have to pay them the same.

Ideally these kids would still get backing from their parents and so don't require work to survive, giving them an advantage in wage and hours negotiations

That's a lot of risk you're taking based on a situation working out ideally. There were reasons child labor laws were passed back then.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

The same people harping on how high school is useless are the same who argue that immigrants without high school education will only increase crime.

 

[Ser Prize]

I don't see why you couldn't cut out the fat of a typical highschooler's day to add in an hour or two of on-the-job experience every few days of the week. You could have a program where a set of local businesses employ students for the quarter or something so kids can end up with valuable firsthand experience doing all sorts of simple but varied jobs.

School should take like 3 hours, I'd say. Especially for younger kids that'd probably make it less boring.

But if they learn it in high school they don't have to relearn it when studying their trade. They can work or study a trade they're interested in outside of school hours. Children aren't adults and so can't consent so they should have no options to make choices about these things.

Also, are these child laborers going to be paid the same wage as an adult worker doing the same job? If not you're just debasing wages like the factory owners did in the 19th century via child labor.

People mass memorize shit in highschool and forget it within a month. They aren't actually using the skills so they get forgotten.

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

People mass memorize shit in highschool and forget it within a month. They aren't actually using the skills so they get forgotten.

They can still be relearned more easily than from scratch. In any case it's by design - give kids a rounded education so as they grow up so they can figure out the kinds of things they're interested in for an adult career.

Obviously this means vocational classes have to 100% be part of the curriculum. If you have STEM or arts but not home economics, wood shop, metalworking, auto mechanics or horticulture you are doing it completely wrong. Many of these are good career choices for people who don't want to pursue higher education but want an honest, good-paying job.

Home economics including personal finance is good for everyone.

 

[Sparkletor 2.0]

Give the kids a standardized test. If they are smart enough to pass, they get to go on to higher education. If they fail, off to the salt mines.

"But them stardenized tests be racist n sheit!" Well, tough luck. That cotton isn't gonna pick itself, Toby.

 

[Cardinal Cardinal]

You must not know any teachers. Your math teacher isn't a mathematician. Your biology teacher isn't a biologist. They graduated with education degrees and have to lesson plan to familiarize themselves with incoming curriculum just as homeschooling parents do.

If there are 8 tasks, it's easier and more efficient for 8 people to take 1 task than 1 person doing all 8 by themselves.
It's very possible that someone majored in education and has a minor in math. I'm pretty sure you just have a hate boner towards school for being dumb or a spaz.

 

[Troonos]

If there are 8 tasks, it's easier and more efficient for 8 people to take 1 task than 1 person doing all 8 by themselves.
It's very possible that someone majored in education and has a minor in math. I'm pretty sure you just have a hate boner towards school for being dumb or a spaz.

Nah, I had a 4.0 from high school until a single B in my final year of college. I still think public education and college are scams. If something gets worse the more money you throw at it, it should be dismantled. If kids are coming out dumber than they were when they showed up and are graduating illiterate, it should be dismantled. Stop deepthroating the state. Parents shouldn't be forced at gunpoint to send their kids to be locked in a state facility for most of their waking hours for 13 years. It's a waste of their childhood.

 

[Cardinal Cardinal]

Nah, I had a 4.0 from high school until a single B in my final year of college. I still think public education and college are scams. If something gets worse the more money you throw at it, it should be dismantled. If kids are coming out dumber than they were when they showed up and are graduating illiterate, it should be dismantled. Stop deepthroating the state. Parents shouldn't be forced at gunpoint to send their kids to be locked in a state facility for most of their waking hours for 13 years. It's a waste of their childhood.

You think college is a scam but still went. Did you benefit from your degree?

 

[Owlbear]

20% of Americans are functionally illiterate. That proves that you don't need more than a few years of elementary school to exist in the modern world. Get rid of all the dumb colleges for dumb people and significantly cut back on high school - send the dumb ones to a "technical" school where they learn to be carpenters or mechanics, and only send the smart ones to what we currently try to put everyone through.

The Germans basically do this. Only about a quarter of students go to Gymnasium, which is the serious college preparatory program. Only about half of Germans get the German certificate that says you finished high school (Abitur). Imagine if only half of Americans (and suspiciously, probably no black people) got high school diplomas.

 

[CoffeeCup]

I cannot imagine children being in my place of work at 14. They’ll die either from unawareness or do something stupid to impress their fellow age group.

…or die of boredom.

 

[CoffeeCup]

Nah, I had a 4.0 from high school until a single B in my final year of college. I still think public education and college are scams. If something gets worse the more money you throw at it, it should be dismantled. If kids are coming out dumber than they were when they showed up and are graduating illiterate, it should be dismantled. Stop deepthroating the state. Parents shouldn't be forced at gunpoint to send their kids to be locked in a state facility for most of their waking hours for 13 years. It's a waste of their childhood.

Just get rid of the fucking homework. That’s what is actually keeping kids from being kids.

 

[Troonos]

Just get rid of the fucking homework. That’s what is actually keeping kids from being kids.

Nah, locking them in a concrete box government camp for 8 hours a day is a problem too.