Should forced labor in prisons be illegal?

Breadbassket

Breadbassket

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Is this slavery? Is it not slavery? Should anyone even worry about the rights of the incarcerated?
 
They don't pick cotton, so it's not slavery.
 
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No, In fact I believe we need to make sure that whatever the cost of housing them and prosecuting them in the court systems is paid back not two fold, but upwards to three fold back towards the community in which they terrorized. If they can't work a normal job fine, I want mandated dancing, where 16 hours of the day is spent forced as a jester for the communities amusement and if they don't a day is added to their sentence for every hour of not dancing for my fucking amusement.

This will of course be there for those who are clearly not remorseful for their actions and have done something violent, severe, or sexually aggressive to others with clear evidence.

To those who say this is inhumane, yes. In my belief if you're a human and choose to act like a savage, you are treated like a savage.

Dance monkey, Dance.
 
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Penal colonies should be brought back, fly these felons to far away lands so they can mine precious resources or something and if they flee it's not our problem anymore.
 
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There's no point in these types of thoughts, because it's impossible to confidently decide anything at all with prisons until there's some guarantee that the people in it did something the average person would actually disagree with. Which won't ever happen, because government.

Dagoth AMOGUS said:
The prisoners actually love the distraction of work I have been told. And there are like, a bajillion lawyers at any one time to crack down on cruel and unusual punishment or the 13th amendment being violated.
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That's another issue: if someone is in prison, then there's a pretty good chance they don't mind having something to do. I've never been incarcerated but if I was I'd rather be stamping license plates than sitting in my cell staring at the ceiling.
 
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The 13th amendment says it is slavery and explicitly allows an exception for it. So yes on the first question. As for the third, no, not beyond the normal responsibilities that come with keeping someone in custody. Restricting rights is the point.
 
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Yes, it's slavery. But slavery is based. When it's not me.
Breadbassket said:
Should anyone even worry about the rights of the incarcerated?
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I want you think about this you plantbased holder of baked wheat. If the incarcerated have no rights, the only thing people with authority have to do is to incarcerate you and they can do whatever the fuck they want. When the incarcerated don't have rights, it means no one does.
Except those who do the incarcerating.
 
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Forced prison labor does not exist in the USA.
If you do not do the prison labor you lose privileges such as commissary access, visit time, being in GP, that kind of thing. They cannot force you to work and will still feed and take care of you even if you do not work.
You will not be beaten, starved, or killed if you do not work.

You can see it the other way around. You earn extra privileges if you work. You earn visit time, commissary access, good marks in your file to get an early release, etc.
 
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I think if you kill someone maliciously the state should give their family members a bereavement stipend and should make it their business to extract the value of that stipend from you by any means constitutionally allowable.

When you maliciously kill someone you commit tangible material damage to American society, you damage the family members as well as wider society by depriving us all of their labor so why should it be unjust for that damage to be repaid in full as a necessary prerequisite for getting out of jail?
 
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Dagoth AMOGUS said:
The prisoners actually love the distraction of work I have been told. And there are like, a bajillion lawyers at any one time to crack down on cruel and unusual punishment or the 13th amendment being violated.
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I Shidded I Farded I Came said:
The 13th amendment says it is slavery and explicitly allows an exception for it. So yes on the first question. As for the third, no, not beyond the normal responsibilities that come with keeping someone in custody. Restricting rights is the point.
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Correct, the 13th literally has a carve out for prison slavery. Those lawyers are illiterate.
 
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I believe all hard crime; murderers, rapists, pedos etc. should get the chair.
Whats left should absolutely just be forced to do labor. That being said, im no fan of forced labor being another death sentence/torture with little food and rest.
 
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Benny said:
I believe all hard crime; murderers, rapists, pedos etc. should get the chair.
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What about all the innocent people the US loves throwing in jail for crimes like those?

Woman makes a false allegation against you? Sorry dude, it's time to fry.
 
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Dagoth AMOGUS said:
The prisoners actually love the distraction of work I have been told. And there are like, a bajillion lawyers at any one time to crack down on cruel and unusual punishment or the 13th amendment being violated.
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Absolutely this, depending on the conditions of the work. But most people would rather trudge through the wilderness cutting down trees on utility easements then sitting on their ass in a cell all day. And they generally get fed better to make up for caloric expense of the labor. Not all prison jobs are chain gangs breaking big rocks into little rocks like in the movies.

Claude Sigma said:
Forced prison labor does not exist in the USA.
If you do not do the prison labor you lose privileges such as commissary access, visit time, being in GP, that kind of thing. They cannot force you to work and will still feed and take care of you even if you do not work.
You will not be beaten, starved, or killed if you do not work.

You can see it the other way around. You earn extra privileges if you work. You earn visit time, commissary access, good marks in your file to get an early release, etc.
Click to expand...

Yup, there are a lot of confidentially incorrect comments in this thread. Refusing to do a prison jobs does not get you whipped like a slave. I'm sure it varies by state, but generally the punishment for not doing it is anything from nothing, to some sort of loss of privileges (ie no TV or whatever). And in many (most? all?) states, prisoners earn a meager wage for their labor which they can use to buy zoom zooms and wham whams in the prison store, so they want that.

Also, some state actually award good time for the labor, meaning you get out earlier. If you polled actual prisoners, I suspect most would like the option to work.

I say let them work the jobs illegal migrants typically work, that way it has no impact on the economy but reduces the incentive for illegal immigration.
 
The way I see it, the question itself is wrong. Prisons themselves are a bad model.

If someone commits a crime, and I mean a proper crime with a victim, not some made-up nonsense like "hate speech" or "copyright infringement", then I say that the restitution of the victim must be the top priority.
Here you can differentiate between mens rea and actus reus, as in, if you accidentally walk onto someone's field, committing trespassing, it is an actus reus (guilty act), but not mens rea (a guilty mind), thus only restitution is needed. For intentional crimes, a further retribution is needed, and I say the victim shall get to decide on that.

Given this outlook, the prison system is an absolute insult to victims. Not only do victims get jack shit, they as taxpayers are being forced to pay for the livelihood of the incarcerated culprit (if they get apprehended in the first place). How anyone can call this "justice" boggles my mind.
 
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