Should I build a Windows XP gaming PC? - "Use virtual machine!" /thread

[Road Work Ahead]

I salvaged an old dell computer last year and it's been pretty good. It originally had vista on it and has an Core2 Duo and 4GB of Memory; I stuck a 9800gt in it and haven't had any issues with it yet . All the gog games that I tried to install have worked (FEAR, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Fallout 1, Deus Ex and System Shock 2).

It's a fun little machine, and looking on ebay, gpus that old haven't really gone up in price (~$20).

As for the machine you have that doesn't post, see if you can find an old post code speaker and see that error it's spitting out.

 

[Judge Dredd]

I think the last NVIDIA supported was the 980. No idea if it works on XP x64, which actually isn't as awful as people seem to make out it is.

That's what I read as well. Those cards haven't escaped the price gouging so might be out of my budget. They would be amazing though.

I'm not concerned about 64 bit because games that would make use of it are beyond the scope of the project. I don't care about DirectX 10+ for the same reason. I'm not against 64 bit though. I remember hearing horror stories about Vista but I used that OS without issue for years.

LGR made this pretty sweet looking Windows XP machine a few years ago. It was the PC he always wanted as a kid but could never afford. Maybe this could give you some ideas?

That's the kind of thing I'm trying to do. Phil's computer lab has a similar build. His channel is where I got a lot of information.

This, XP64 can use more than 3GB of RAM

I doubt I'll need more than the 3gb. I'm not against more, but the games I'll be playing rarely use 1gb. The most demanding games I'd likely run would be games from 2009-2010 like Fear 2 and Singularity, which require 1.5gb.

Just use WINE lol. It's unironically the best and easiest way to play games from that era now.

I've not seen WINE suggested before. I've been thinking of installing Linux on my main PC (though that's a topic for another thread). I assumed Linux would require a lot of tweaking to get games working right?

 

[Spasticus Autisticus]

This is basically what I have done with my old Sandy Bridge i5 + Z68 motherboard which now serves as a dedicated XP gaming machine. If you can source a Z68 mobo and Sandy Bridge CPU for a decent price (and they are old enough that they hopefully aren’t affected by the current market insanity, although I haven’t looked recently) you will probably do fine with it. The GeForce 560 I originally used with it had to be replaced since it wouldn’t fit in the new case I bought for it. The integrated graphics were not adequate except for early XP era games. Even CS:Source was just barely playable. I’m lucky to live near a store that sells all sorts of used PC hardware so I picked up a similar-gen Radeon (I think 6850 but I can’t remember exactly) for $40 earlier this year and it runs like a dream. For sound I still use the Audigy 2 ZS I bought even before that build.

I would agree that it’s best to avoid SSDs for an XP rig. SSDs didn’t really become accessible to consumers until late in the XP era and they were still pretty exotic even then. The period correctness aspect isn’t even the most important part of that, it’s more that the OS won’t write to it in a way that gets more life out of the drive (poor technical explanation I know). You won’t likely see much of a speed benefit from them in that era anyway.

 

[tehpope]

Low Profile Graphics Cards comparison for Windows XP Retro Gaming on Small Form Factor Pre Built PCs

Thank you for watching this video! Hope you found it interesting, please leave a comment and subscribe to the channel! Support PhilsComputerLab:Amazon.com: h...

www.youtube.com

a video i found on gpus for a low profile option (yes i know the guy is using an i5 and its a low profile system)

Phil's a good guy. Lots of great content.

Spoiler: Me sperging

I put a windows xp build using a similar pc in the vid. HP 8200 Elite SFF. I'm using a i5-2500T with a AMD r7 250 low profile card. The dell variant of the GPU is really cheap, under $50. Does the job nicely. You can also get something like a Dell Optiplex 7010 MT with a i5-3570. I have one and put a GTX 650 ti in there. Similar performance. Should be better. Both builds will run retro stuff like Batocera really well. Gamecube at 1080p.

The HP cost me like $60 with shipping. You can find it cheaper locally if you are patient. With the HP, I'm able to run UT2004 at 1080p, 300+fps, with everything maxed out, and 31 bots on the map.

I was able to get USB 3 working on XP. I got this card (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JFR2H64) so I could use the ports on this 5.25' bay (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00834SJ8K). Works fine. The CD it came with had XP drivers. Snappy Driver Installer didn't install them properly. I would recommend using SDI for the drivers. It might be slow downloading them unless you get the full package with every driver. I used the torrent from here and had no issues with 99% of my drivers. https://retrosystemsrevival.blogspot.com/2020/01/sdi-snappy-driver-installer.html
It is like ~25gb mind you.

You can run WinXP 64 fine. I'm not sure if more ram makes a difference though. The only issue is with more modern retro source ports and programs. Some might not work with WinXP 64.

And here's every Windows XP update, both for 32 and 64 bit varients. Just exract the iso on your PC and run it. I think there's an option to reboot for you. Just let it run for a few hours and you're golden.

Every Windows XP “Windows Update” in one download (+2019 patches)

Update 3: In May of 2019 Microsoft released a patch for x86 versions of Windows XP and the 32 and 64-bit versions of Server 2003. KB4500705 protects against remote code execution. The patches have …

nuangel.net

Budget Builds did a vid about his own XP build:

The Ultimate Windows XP PC

Hello everyone and welcome back to another Budget Builds video where today we'll be building a very cheap (and awesome) Windows XP Computer. One that is comp...

www.youtube.com

I did think about using a Core 2 Duo / Quad in my build, like Budget Builds did. You can still find those in Office PC for pretty cheap. But the jump in performance form Core 2 to Second / Third gen i3/i5s is worth the extra few extra dollars office pcs with i3/i5s.

I haven't fucked around with those custom service packs or any "hacks". I run my system pretty vanilla.

A lot of GOG games just work. And if they don't, try extracting with Innoextract and running the games that way. It might not work for some titles that use the registry to store cd keys and what not (UT2004).

I have used Easy2Boot to install both varients of XP. 32 bit just works. Had to slipstream in the drivers for my built-in sata adapter for 64 using nLite. Other than that, works.

And if you don't wanna run XP on those Office PCs, they run Windows 10/11 and Linux just fine. I slapped a 1650 Super into my Optiplex and used it to rip and encode blurays no issue (with Manjaro).

I've not seen WINE suggested before. I've been thinking of installing Linux on my main PC (though that's a topic for another thread). I assumed Linux would require a lot of tweaking to get games working right?

You can just use Lutris and it'll do most of the heavy configuring for you. Or you can just YOLO it and see what happens running the game directly. The only game I've had issues with is Divinity II. Uses some dumbass nvidia tech that need to be installed afterwards.

 

[Dick Justice]

I've not seen WINE suggested before. I've been thinking of installing Linux on my main PC (though that's a topic for another thread). I assumed Linux would require a lot of tweaking to get games working right?

It would. Then clever people got tired of hearing children parrot "no games on linux" so they made a bunch of gamerword cattle-proof frontends like Playonlinux, Lutris, etc. so now it's literally two clicks. I hear most people just use steam and proton but I can't comment on that botnet. Last I heard people had got SO TIRED of hearing the "no games" refrain that now there's distros that come pre-packaged with all the NVIDIA drivers and rainbow faggot LEDs you could ever want.

 

[Shig O'nella]

Maybe try hitting up friends to see if anyone still has parts or even fully functional systems from that period.

Seconding. Plus, ask around. I get most older but decent parts from schools, oddly enough, through a couple of teacher neighbours.

 

[Linako 2.0]

It would. Then clever people got tired of hearing children parrot "no games on linux" so they made a bunch of gamerword cattle-proof frontends like Playonlinux, Lutris, etc. so now it's literally two clicks. I hear most people just use steam and proton but I can't comment on that botnet. Last I heard people had got SO TIRED of hearing the "no games" refrain that now there's distros that come pre-packaged with all the NVIDIA drivers and rainbow faggot LEDs you could ever want.

Now all I need is to have Adobe CS6 stuff work on Linux and I'm set for life.

 

[L50LasPak]

Speaking generally, having an older, dedicated gaming rig is a smart idea since emulating Windows to this day is still finicky, and most Win 95 and contemporary games will usually run okay on XP in compatibility mode. The alternatives you mentioned spending your money on, such as collecting for other videogame systems, seem like a bad move by comparison since the old games market right now is basically in the toilet due to scalpers and speculators pushing the value of everything needlessly higher and higher. I'm not sure if its spread to the Xbox 360 market yet, some of that stuff is still fairly cheap, but if you've already got a good Current Year gaming PC there's very little you can get on the 360 that you can't just run on PC already.

You could try meeting halfway and buy an old XP desktop machine used and maybe progressively upgrade it piecemeal just as parts become available. Though at the end of the day you might end up paying the same startup cost buying a used machine as you would starting from scratch. Even if you have to start from scratch I'd say go for it though.

 

[updoot farmer]

What about just picking up an APU board? Shit was pretty cash as far as hardware went, has an integrated GPU, and at least the FM1 socketed boards should work just fine with XP with no mods. You can still find the board with CPU for ~40-50 bucks on ebay.

The SSD thing is way overblown. I run SSDs in my retro rigs (including a few PPC macs). The whole wear and tear thing was from the an old era when wear and tear was actually a concern. Even with a low-spec SSD, you will probably never wear it out in your sane lifetime, unless you actively rewrite the entire drive every day or something. Buy two drives for fourty bucks, have one always be a mirror if you're worried about data loss.

You're entirely correct in your assumption about compact flash cards, although they are somewhat less reliable/resilient than your standard SSD. (Makes the spergery by people who say "don't use SSDs!" and then turn around and recommend this solution absolutely hilarious). I use a few of them as boot drives as well because having an easily-swappable drive is the absolute tits.

 

[Jump]

My XP and 7 machines are HP Z400's

HP Z400 Workstation Product Specifications | HP® Customer Support

support.hp.com

Total beast with XP. They originally shipped with Vista but HP supported downgrading to XP.

Really common and you can actually still buy refurbs on amazon but I am not sure if that is the version that supports XP.

 

[Judge Dredd]

You might as well not even waste any money on a discrete GPU if you're only playing very old (< 2006) games. Get a Sandy or Ivy Bridge CPU with integrated HD 4000 graphics. Something like an i5-3570k, which you can get on ebay for <$50. If you absolutely must have XP, you should dual-boot between a 64-bit version of that and Windows 7. 64-bit versions of XP should recognize more than 3gb of RAM.

A laptop would be great for convenience and space saving, and pre-2006 is the kind of era I'm aiming for. My concern would be if they'd run the games well enough to be worth the effort.

Games like Fear and Quake 4 can be demanding, though I'm willing to make some sacrifices if everything else works well. I'm mainly looking to play games like No One Lives Forever and Dark Corners of the Earth, which I missed back in the day and require a bunch of fiddling to work on modern hardware. The laptops are £100, which is within my budget too.

If you can source a Z68 mobo and Sandy Bridge CPU for a decent price (and they are old enough that they hopefully aren’t affected by the current market insanity, although I haven’t looked recently) you will probably do fine with it.

They aren't as far as I can see. £20 for a CPU, and GPUs are around £40. They're widely available too, making me believe that they aren't a target for miners. They're also new enough that retro collectors haven't scalped them. Try buying a VooDoo 3 for a Win 98 build and look at those prices.

The alternatives you mentioned spending your money on, such as collecting for other videogame systems, seem like a bad move by comparison since the old games market right now is basically in the toilet due to scalpers and speculators pushing the value of everything needlessly higher and higher. I'm not sure if its spread to the Xbox 360 market yet, some of that stuff is still fairly cheap, but if you've already got a good Current Year gaming PC there's very little you can get on the 360 that you can't just run on PC already.

It has, unfortunately. I saw Forza Horizon 1 and 2 new and sealed for £30 each. I thought that was a bit steep. They go for double that now. Original Xbox seems to be the black sheep of collecting, likely due to the lack of collectable exclusives. There's only the Steel Battalion games that people care about that aren't widely available elsewhere. I assume that's changed now, as I haven't looked into it for a while.

Emulation PC is another story. I've never used a Raspberry Pi, but a fast CPU and a controller is basically all that's needed for a retro box (unless I'm missing something). My only problem with emulation is that I'm a stickler for accuracy and performance.

You could try meeting halfway and buy an old XP desktop machine used and maybe progressively upgrade it piecemeal just as parts become available. Though at the end of the day you might end up paying the same startup cost buying a used machine as you would starting from scratch. Even if you have to start from scratch I'd say go for it though.

I was considering going to opposite way. Buying a good case and PSU, and reusing those for my VR build in 2023.

You're entirely correct in your assumption about compact flash cards, although they are somewhat less reliable/resilient than your standard SSD. (Makes the spergery by people who say "don't use SSDs!" and then turn around and recommend this solution absolutely hilarious). I use a few of them as boot drives as well because having an easily-swappable drive is the absolute tits.

Do SSDs provide much of a performance benefit in XP? The only game I know that had frequent, long loading times was Oblivion.

 

[There Is Light At The End]

Have you tried virtualbox? It's piss easy to setup.

 

[updoot farmer]

Do SSDs provide much of a performance benefit in XP? The only game I know that had frequent, long loading times was Oblivion.

I'd say there's enough performance upside to use them. Worst case scenario you're bottlenecked by IDE transfer speeds, but if I were building a machine -- why not have the fastest possible drive available. The lack of noise can also be seen as either a positive or a negative, depending on what you're going for.

 

[Aidan]

I know it's been said but if you have a spare PC lying around that isn't XP-tier then it's worth exploring playing those same games on Linux using something like Lutris. We're currently at a point where modern Windows can't run a lot of older Windows titles but Linux can using Wine/Proton with more stability than an actual Windows install due to how so many games from the era are janky in wizardy ways.
Pirate a couple of the games you're most interested in stepping back in time with and see how they fare.

Otherwise everything worth saying I think has already been said, it's just sourcing the parts.

 

[Sketch Turner]

Have you tried virtualbox? It's piss easy to setup.

Not really viable for running PC games in, though.

 

[Mr. Duck]

Go for it, high end XP-era parts are cheap these days, and it's better to do it now before the retro collectors start jacking up the prices like they do nowadays with 98-era parts.

Have you tried virtualbox? It's piss easy to setup.

VirtualBox and other VM software are terrible for gaming, they have basic 3D acceleration on XP but games tend to run like absolute garbage, also, they might have some graphical issues that don't happen on a real machine.

 

[Sketch Turner]

Go for it, high end XP-era parts are cheap these days, and it's better to do it now before the retro collectors start jacking up the prices like they do nowadays with 98-era parts.

It helps that a lot of things are compatible with XP due to just how long it lasted.

As previously mentioned do be aware there is a LOT of spergery and troonery within the retro tech communities - one particularly notable lolcow, MisatoDX4/Proxima64, comes to mind as an example of a person circulating the legacy Windows communities.

There was also a bunch of autism surrounding a now-dead MSFN clone called eclipse.cx not too long ago, due to one of the ex-staffers having his PM perms removed or something; the community admin removed the guy who actually paid for his hosting (just a few days after it had been renewed), and proceeded to kick most of the actually important members away, leaving only the autistic twats behind.

MSFN.org state - Page 6 - RyanVM.net Discussion Board

http://board.eclipse.cx/viewtopic.php?t=273

 

[tehpope]

I'd say there's enough performance upside to use them. Worst case scenario you're bottlenecked by IDE transfer speeds, but if I were building a machine -- why not have the fastest possible drive available. The lack of noise can also be seen as either a positive or a negative, depending on what you're going for.

XP works fine with SATA. I used an SSD in my current build. Nothing too fancy, but gets the job done.

 

[There Is Light At The End]

Not really viable for running PC games in, though.

I will try some older quests, since I have one ready

 

[Mike Stoklasa]

This, XP64 can use more than 3GB of RAM

And yet Sim City 4 will never use multicore processing.