Sid Meier's Civilization

JJLiautaud said:
Holy shit man thats a deep cut, I like PMcW he's 7/10 background noise
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I probably need to avoid any Spiffing Brit vids on it since I do enjoy watching his exploiting vids as background. It'll probably be illegal for him to say anything negative about DEI.
 
Commander X said:
The source of the Harriet Tubman mythos comes from a book written by Sarah Bradford that's sources were, really: "We made it up". Harriet Tubman is the 19th century version of a character from a movie "based on a true story".
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Okay, but Kupe in Civ 6 was also made up.

What you need to do is point at how she only saved 70 people. This would be like having a random WW1 or WW2 soldier who earned a service medal as a leader.
 
Computer God Autism said:
So were all the Civilopedia entries in 6, but it'll be pushed on kids as a way to teach them history anyways.
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Don't forget they pissed off Sweden big-time by giving them a leader who IRL actively made things worse for the place since instead of wrecking everyone's faces like her old man Gustavus Adolphus did she... read a ton of books, converted to Catholicism, and refused to marry and produce an heir so she abdicated the throne to her cousin and then fucked off to Rome to chill with the Pope until she died, still unmarried and childless.
 
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Computer God Autism said:
So were all the Civilopedia entries in 6, but it'll be pushed on kids as a way to teach them history anyways.
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On that note, the description entries for 7 that have been revealed so far make me sad. They're too short. 1734565933881.png
They also went out of their way to pick civilizations that collapsed or cleanly transformed into something else for every Ancient of Exploration pick, so that they could end each nation description with "and then they became irrelevant" or "and then everyone died".
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Or is that just the wikia descriptions? I'll admit, I haven't been looking into this very closely.

...Oh my God, they're claiming that mass migration and foreign religion destroyed Hawaii. No self-awareness there.
 
Computer God Autism said:
Honestly still better than 6's tumblr snark.
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Oh yeah, they crap on Astrology way too much in that game.

Also, there are only two base-game Civs that haven't been revealed yet. What do you think they'll be?

The currently-revealed ones are... mostly not that great.

Also there's around 10 in each category, so how the HECK are they gonna handle people picking the same Civ to move to?
 
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So what are some good candidates for symbolic leaders of civs?

AMERICA
Mark Twain: Incisive social commentator and symbol of American literature, came from the American Heartland and became a symbol of a whole era and culture (the Mississippi River when it ran wild), perfect, way better than fucking Harriet Tubman, still very aggreable to Current Year

A robber baron: Several choices. JP Morgan probably has the most personality. Carnegie probably has the most benevolent impact/impressive, Vanderbilt the most interesting life story, Rockefeller to play into oil

BRITISH
Meme answer: James Mayer de Rothschild

ITALIANS
Leonardo da Vinci, nobody else comes close in terms of general brilliance

Giuseppe Garibaldi, for being a Chad Che-Guevara-of-the-Victorian-Era and the founding father of italy

GREEKS
Aristotle, same as above

Mayor Cody Travers said:
Fantastic example, it's on par with what I tried to point out with the Persians/Iranians and Chinese in my post! Obviously Macedonia as part of Ancient Greece, Byzantium as "Medieval Greece", and 1821 onward as "Modern Greece" - but all of them indisputably part of and representing different eras/aesthetics of a singular "Greece/the Greeks/the Greek People and Civ" you the player are controlling in your playthrough.

The vast majority of the core and evergreen nations and civs used every game have broad enough history to either go through all eras comfortably or fudge it with ancestors/descendants as I suggested. Brazil can be Romance-speaking Lusitanians with Roman architecture for "Ancient" Brazil and copy medieval and renaissance Portgual for those eras if need be. Roman Gaul as "Ancient France" (or Celtic Gaul, but France speaks Romance since Caesar, so...). And so forth, and so forth.
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It seems to me that if a person is worried about language shifts marking a complete overthrow of a culture, then it may make more sense to interpret Gauls of Caesar's day as part of the same civilization as Scots and Irish. A Celtic civilization that can take the flavor of Vecingetorix, Boudicca, Robert the Bruce and Michael Collins under one roof.

With a generous interpretation of language families being what matters, Semitic Phoenicians/Carthaginians and/or Mesopotamians like Assyrians and Babylonians can easily become Semitic Arabs. I can also see something like Phoenicians/Carthaginians --> Jews --> Israelis, while Assyrians/Babylonians --> Arabs.

British are really debatable, could do as Celts first (native inhabitants of the island) or as Saxons first (actual language family, a cultural fault line against the actual Celts-that-stayed-Celts) for their ancient phase.

The only core nation that's really hard to do, as always, is America (so important that it's very hard to justify not having as its own civ, yet is so awkward in only being what it is at the very end of the timeframe). In some ways I could see violating the rule for that and having its ancient culture be Greco-Roman flavored, then shifting to English-Dutch flavored in the Middle Ages and Early Modern period, and arguing that America is represented in the game as a tradition of representative government more than as a culture (not true, but a self-image that fits).
 
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Foxxo said:
Okay, but Kupe in Civ 6 was also made up.

What you need to do is point at how she only saved 70 people. This would be like having a random WW1 or WW2 soldier who earned a service medal as a leader.
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70 people while crossing multiple states on top of avoiding slave catchers. She also connected John Brown with her support networks in the Northeast for help in planning the Raid on Harper’s Ferry. Tubman was a legitimate spy for the Union army. She alerted slaves of Combahee Ferry of an upcoming Union raid, liberating 750 people.

She is certainly an inspirational American, someone who represents the spirit of individual willpower, self-sacrifice, and the desire to fight for what you believe in. I would not put her on the level of a leader character, though. Just not that influential in comparison to someone like a President.

I does make me wonder if Civ could introduce minor heroes? Support characters that can help your cities develop in more unique ways. Tubman’s city would be able to attract more population and have more morale, on account of her tireless efforts to care for her family and other escaped slaves. An Audie Murphy city would give buffs to soldiers. An Elvis city would give boosts to cultural development, on top of every unit produced from that city wearing an Elvis wig.
 
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Rome's rightful successor said:
I like them both. The other civs had great banger menu themes and openers.
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Honestly, I think BtS's menu theme is the best in the series. Setting an excerpt of Alfred Noyes' A Prayer in Times of War to a choir and somber fanfare while showing the Duomo di Firenze conveys so much more about the actual experiences and consequences of building a civilization to stand the test of time than Christopher Tin's more optimistic music (that I still greatly enjoy). That said, the best thing to come out of Civ 6 was Sogno di Volare.
 
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