Sid Meier's Civilization

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The Harappans would be cool. I hope they'd also add the Etruscans, Tartessos, Thracians, Urartu, Mitanni, Canaanites, the Hebrews, Elamites, and The Oxus Civilization. That would be cool.
I do think it's pretty gay that the Phoenicians/Canaanites (two words for same people) are not in. If you want to roleplay the actual founders of Judaism the closest thing you can do is play Carthage (as a Phoenician colony). The easy fix for it would be Hebrews/Jews/whatever, Tyre, a few others as the "families" of Phoenicians.
 
The Hibernian little shit has switch sides following another paycheck from firaxis.
Syncretism is a really good idea for a mechanic. Although it being done purely through diplomacy is kinda lame.

Imagine conquering a bunch of cities from a civ and getting a bonus from having a lot of people from that culture in your empire. Would definitely add alot of dynamism to the game and make early conflicts more of a reward. Endless Space 2 did this with the human faction being the multicultural faction and it worked well as a faction gimmick.

You could also take a leaf from Vicky 2's book and try to simulate how different areas have to be settled at different times. Having a New World equivalent that can only be reached after astronomy is already a trope in Civ, a Dark Continent that can only be colonized after researching anti-malarials could also help.
This would be better if Civ did a better job at resource distribution. I have rarely had times where I just didn't have a resource available so waging a war to get aluminum to win the space race just hardly happens. I also have a problem where I am too diplomatic and can just trade for resources I need until they can be synthetically produced in-house.

I think players should have some agency/control over religion but having more things that the player has to negotiate with instead of directly control would only be good for civ, imo. Religions, regional cultures, social classes, business interests, ideologies - there's so much potential that's all funneled into just being number crunching.
It would be nice if you had a mechanic that actually changed how you play instead of just another thing to min-max.
Religion being spontaneous but being based on your decisions in the game would be interesting. If anything, it would be a good adaption of Civ 7s civilizational choice mechanic. A religion appears that will make you good at expansion, but worse at technology. While this certain prophet is alive you get an insane bonus to war.
 
I do think it's pretty gay that the Phoenicians/Canaanites (two words for same people) are not in. If you want to roleplay the actual founders of Judaism the closest thing you can do is play Carthage (as a Phoenician colony). The easy fix for it would be Hebrews/Jews/whatever, Tyre, a few others as the "families" of Phoenicians.
Honestly, seeing them go into the Indus before finishing out the Mediterranean was disappointing. Even if Carthage already covers the Phoenicians and the Hebrews are too contentious for current year, there's still the Armenians, Lydians and Etruscans as obvious gaps. The portrayal of everything to the north and west of Rome as just barbarians is also really condescending, especially with the Nubians (added in over the Numidians no less!) as playable - the Gauls/Galatians ought to have been playable by default.
 
Start as Harappans -> Civilization shift to Indians -> Lose access to sewer special building....
 
and the Hebrews are too contentious for current year
It's kind of strange now that the Crusader States would probably be the least controversial pick for a Holy Land civ in any Civ like game now.

Like if there was a Hebrew civ in the first three civ games there would have been no controversary. IV-V it might have rustle the feathers of fedora neckbeard reddit athiest types that would accused Civ of being Bible propaganda. But VI onward it would bring about whether or not Firaxis is pro-zionist or not.
 
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I feel like 70% of people who know about Potato now just know them as a Twitter guy.
 
On the topic of lack of asymmetry, I think religion is pretty unsatisfactory in Civ. Realism Invictus doesn't try to rock the boat too much in regards to that; it expands the content of the ingame religion and gives you a few more ways to interact with it, but doesn't alter how it really functions. The History Rewritten mod actually does a much better job in that respect, allowing you some discretion over how your chosen religion functions and being the product of great prophets, effectively backporting large portions of the Civ 5 religion system into 4 with some limitations and alterations (religions are actually defined in History Rewritten, with each religion have different basic beliefs - e.g. Christianity is Monotheistic, which has distinct bonuses from Confucianism's Ethicism), but in detaching it from the tech tree (and throwing in a bunch of pantheons) it detaches religion to the point where they're interchangeable. Religions, like civilizations, are not interchangeable and will fracture over time; they also greatly inform civilizations to the point there's chicken and egg arguments over which creates which. Imo, an ideal religion system in civ would be a mix of Civ 5/6 with Old World (which built on 4's ideas of religions not being fungible); every civ should have the option to get some sort of pantheon which is entirely theirs, while religions aren't just founded out of the ether and have core, unchangable tenets, and are also limited in number. Religions should eventually schism as their tenets develop, allowing players that didn't found a religion to still found their own denomination (up to a certain amount) to make them more customizable as the religion spreads, and also offering distinctions between coreligionists and heathens for the purposes of religious management. I do find it funny how religion was left in the dust as Civlikes started trying to make civs more interchangable; it wasn't even a mechanic in Humankind until a few patches after launch.

I tried out History Rewritten because of this post. My thoughts on the matter largely match yours. I really did not like how there was seemingly a religion for every civ in an 18-player earth map, especially as most of them started out identical and only shifted over time with techs. Major religions should be rare (I'd use number of civs/3) and not only non-fungible, but having the potential to massively change your game. Civ 5 multiplayer does a decent job of this, as each tenant and pantheon can only be chosen by a single player, it creates a real rush for being the first or second player to a powerful religion before the good tenants run out. Against the CPU, this doesn't work as well.

I'd also agree with Pantheons having an impact, and I think Civ 5's pre-religion is their best addition to the system, but every major religion had different reactions to what came before and how, if there was any, syncretism impacted the faith. I'd argue that IRL religion plays the single largest role in societal development, and that converting to a religion should have as much, if not more, effect on your playstyle than even picking your civ. Here's some spitballing for what a proper Civ religious system should look like:

Pantheon: You take this from Civ 5/6, representing your pre-axial religion of choice. Then you found certain religions either through techs or through faith accumulation, all with vastly different bonuses depending on your early game.

The Religions themselves:
Hinduism: The only religion that allows you to keep all your pantheon traits, as Hinduism is basically Indian paganism given a fancy name. Since it's just a refinement of your Pantheon, it serves to double/vastly increase the effects of it. Hinduism can be extremely useful as a first religion if Pantheon traits are first-come-first-serve, and you selected ideal traits that scale extremely well. The other way would be for you to add even more Pantheon traits well beyond everyone else.

Christianity: The perk here is that you unlock the Apostolic Palace from Civ 4 (barring the diplomatic victory option), the palace can vote on crusades, blockades, truces, and give bonuses to the controller and it's members. This serves a diplomatic game extremely well and gives incentive to spread your faith around to use it as a sword and shield, with the adverse effect of losing control if you piss off all your brothers in the faith. But spreading the faith further serves to add to the bonuses given by the AP.

Islam: The Caliphate is given to the most powerful Muslim nation, any muslim nation of low enough score relative to the Caliph automatically becomes the Caliph's vassal, with the issue that any fellow Muslim civ that isn't weak enough to become vassalized will try to take you down. You want to spread this faith by sword-point, preferably yours, instead of converting other large empires. The best religion for closing out a conquest victory thanks to the vassals.

Judism: Immense bonuses that increase as you spread your faith to other cities, but weaken as other Civs adopt the faith. You play a strange balancing act between having a large diaspora to benefit you, but not letting in others into the club to dilute your internal cohesion, all the while keeping the gentiles happy enough that you don't get run over for being an infidel.

Buddhism : This one depends the most on what kind of Civ game we're running, but I was thinking of monastaries providing unique yields to tile workers, or to specialists. I'd really lean in on the variety to produce warrior priests (Sohei), mass missionary movements ( Buddhism's pread from India to Tibet to Mongolia), and other benefits that monks provide. Buddhism should be the min-max "chose your own bonus" religion that is the most flexible of the bunch.

Zoroastrianism: I have no clue here but it's my pick for the final of the 6 big deal religions, as Confusanism and Taoism aren't really religions, and Shinto, Voodoo, Astaru etc are just fancy names for the local pagan practices.


All of these can carry over some of the former Pantheon to differing degrees, from not much (The Abrahamics) to some (Buddhism and Zoroastrianism), with Hinduism carrying over everything and expanding.


Useless theory crafting, but just to give an idea for how you can make religion incredibly impactful and worth grabbing, instead of largely interchangeable or customizable.
 
favorite Civ 1 themes:

Choicest VGM - VGM #259 - Sid Meier's Civilization - Greek Theme

Choicest VGM - VGM #266 - Sid Meier's Civilization - Roman Theme

- Choicest Games

BTW in the Civ 2 OST, they made "remastered" versions of these themes before "remasters" were a trend.
 
favorite Civ 1 themes:

Choicest VGM - VGM #259 - Sid Meier's Civilization - Greek Theme

Choicest VGM - VGM #266 - Sid Meier's Civilization - Roman Theme

- Choicest Games

BTW in the Civ 2 OST, they made "remastered" versions of these themes before "remasters" were a trend.

My demarcating line between New and Old Civ are the remixes of the Civ 1 themes. This trend continued into Civ III and IV, with some examples.

China Theme -> The Shining Path -> MidORFull

Roman Theme -> Augustus Rises -> Roman Theme (CIV)

Aztec Theme -> Tenochtitlan Revealed -> MidNAFull -> Aztec Theme

Personally, I think III had the best soundtrack of the older games, a point conceded by the fact that half of CIV's soundtrack is lifted directly from III. My favorite from the game is Japanese Conquest Theme 1, which is the best japanesey music I've heard barring Shogun 2.
 
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Wild crossover... and a retarded opinion.


Old World is 90% off. Is the DLC good?

What was the issue with the combat system?
Old World DLC is pretty solid, combat isn't bad it's just different. The game runs on 'orders', meaning you probably can't or shouldn't move every unit you possibly can each turn, and units have multiple actions before you can't move them anymore (unless you force march them which has an increased cost in orders), so there's a lot of opportunity costs involved in what units to move and where, and how you plan your army movements because orders are also used for managing constructions and politics.
 
What was the issue with the combat system?
I just played a game to I think mid-game and I think I just got filtered by the combat. It was just such a long time and hassle to capture even one city. It's not necessarily like CIV where I can just mass produce melee/ranged/siege and sick em on the cities
 
Speaking of civ themes, I always find it funny how Kongo's theme originated from Rhodesia out of all places.
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Rhodesia literally died with soldiers giving a last sing along to a song with found memories at the request of a kid. Could any other country ask for the same?
 
Watching it, and...

I gotta disagree with the mobile version part, because Civ 6 on iPad looks... also pretty damn good, with the only criticism being static leader images, smaller text/icons, lack of voices and unit movement can be picky because of touch screen. (And lack of mod support, in fairness.)

And the images and voices part was because of storage size, addressed by Apple increasing app size from 20 GB to 100 GB for iOS a couple of years ago (if Asypr wanted to update it again, but that's another story.)

I'd put it like this.

If Civ 7 is a man with heart, liver, lung and kidney failure, the mobile version is him also having a dislocated finger. Not helpful or ideal, but far from the biggest issue.
 
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Old World is pretty good. It is less like Civ and more like Endless Space or Oriental Empires. War is inevitable and actually well designed.
The Learn through Play scenarios are pretty good. They basically put you in a similar situations to the historical empires.

I just played a game to I think mid-game and I think I just got filtered by the combat. It was just such a long time and hassle to capture even one city. It's not necessarily like CIV where I can just mass produce melee/ranged/siege and sick em on the cities
Cavalry is insanely overpowered. Building pastures gives you more orders and cavalry get to attack twice immediately after killing a unit so you can basically chain route an army.
 
Cavalry is insanely overpowered. Building pastures gives you more orders and cavalry get to attack twice immediately after killing a unit so you can basically chain route an army.
As I understand from my military academy of playing video games that’s exactly what cavalry are IRL. Like:
Shock = Big bonus to initial impact (if talking modern, then CQC/stormtrooper types), meaning designed to be gambled on breaking a warbling unit

And then all cav are shock, shock cav are just cav that’s even more shock than other cav. As well as serving the function of having speed at tactical and operational scale for screening, pursuit, scouting/raiding and flashy maneuvers.

So cav being represented as dealing double damage but only when you can position them to lay a killing blow is an elegant way of conveying their function of being a decisive but fragile force, especially with being expensive and eaten alive by anti-cav. It wins battles because of the work put in by infantry to set it up at its moment of glory.

Same with elephants being depicted as a terror/disruption weapon (displace the enemy line, doesn’t necessarily crush it).
 
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