Skyrim Modding Community - Over a half-decade giving birth to gullible programmers

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I don't know if he does Skyrim nodding, but a serious drama whore in the Nexus community is DDProductions83. Around the early days of the Bethesda nodding platform, DD found that a few of his best but still crap mods had been uploaded to Bethesda without his permission. Rather than be a reasonable human being and make a video or blog post outlining his position and why he doesn't want to have his mods reuploaded, he threw a tantrum in a rambling YouTube video that included but was not limited to calling everyone who had requested console mods stupid cunts. His rage was pretty funny, and the half ass crusade thing he launched ended up getting him an indefinite ban from the Nexus on a primary and a sock account. My memory is a bit patchy, though, since I played Fallout 4 sporadically. Hey, @GethN7, do you know any more?
 
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ADN_VIII said:
I don't know if he does Skyrim nodding, but a serious drama whore in the Nexus community is DDProductions83. Around the early days of the Bethesda nodding platform, DD found that a few of his best but still crap mods had been uploaded to Bethesda without his permission. Rather than be a reasonable human being and make a video or blog post outlining his position and why he doesn't want to have his mods reuploaded, he threw a tantrum in a rambling YouTube video that included but was not limited to calling everyone who had requested console mods stupid cunts. His rage was pretty funny, and the half ass crusade thing he launched ended up getting him an indefinite ban from the Nexus on a primary and a sock account. My memory is a bit patchy, though, since I played Fallout 4 sporadically. Hey, @GethN7, do you know any more?
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Actually, he does ring a bell.

DDProductions83 is a good modder, but he threw a major tantrum over some of his mods getting used elsewhere with his consent. He also tends to be a bit of a prima donna about his mods in general, to the point some of his own mod descriptions read like an egomaniac saying "well, I might as well deign to give you mere mortals my hard work".

I don't deny he's made some very good mods, but yeah, he's a bit of a diva, and yes, he's still on the Nexus, not sure on how he managed that though.

He's also got pretensions of getting a game of his on Steam and is a bit up his own ass about that.
 
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GethN7 said:
Actually, he does ring a bell.

DDProductions83 is a good modder, but he threw a major tantrum over some of his mods getting used elsewhere with his consent. He also tends to be a bit of a prima donna about his mods in general, to the point some of his own mod descriptions read like an egomaniac saying "well, I might as well deign to give you mere mortals my hard work".

I don't deny he's made some very good mods, but yeah, he's a bit of a diva, and yes, he's still on the Nexus, not sure on how he managed that though.

He's also got pretensions of getting a game of his on Steam and is a bit up his own ass about that.
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Oh, yeah. His mod descriptions often include statements along the lines that people shouldn't complain or offer suggestions because he's just better than them. Though i may have him mixed up with Doombased, who also has an inflated noggin.
 
there was a pretty hilarious drama with DD where he got extremely butthurt that Trainwiz made the first true quest mod for FO4, a honor he was autisticly obsessing over achieving. The salty shit slinging he did lasted for months, making semantic arguments that Trainwiz's mod didn't count and that his was the true first, and not even his supporters were really buying it. Trainwiz's release was very much urged by 4chans /fog/ hoping to produce some DD Productions milk. While DD was hyping his "first quest mod" to the entire community, Trainwiz was quietly working to beat DD there, releasing his mod with almost no prior notice, the entire community instantly forgot about what DD was working on, and Trainwiz and his mod were the ones in the spotlight.

Before this happened, DD was praising Bethesda, Having the early geck access, his ego was at a alltime high. After trainwiz destroyed it, DD's view and opinion of Bethesda first changed. Some time later and he is declaring autistic civil war against bethesda over problems he had with the beth modding site, many of which were nonsensical and salty. Basically Trainwiz broke DDproductions83
 
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Ah yes, i remember Trainwiz talking about his haunted amusement park on /fog/'s steam chat. No idea it would produce something so hilarious.
 
GethN7 said:
Well, it's a bit complicated, but it works like this.

Presuming you own a legit copy of the game, you can use any of the files that came with the game as a base for your own modifications, provided you credit Bethseda. It's even possible to do so for profit, but Bethseda still must be credited, and depending on the type of mod, you might have to work out commercial rights with Bethseda themselves, especially if your mod is a 'Total Conversion" mod that uses many heavily edited licensed assets, but there haven't been many cases of this actually happening, so I don't know the legal specifics.

If you use all original assets not connected to the base files of the Bethseda game, you have a lot more leeway since all you are really doing is using their engine to render the content. In this case, you'd have the strongest case to sue since you own the mod contents in their entirety.

About the only time I've seen Bethseda get downright edgy over copyright and commercial rights is people attempting to source port their products, like in the case of the DaggerXL engine and OpenMW.

The former isn't really an issue, since Bethseda themselves lost the source code to Daggerfall and thus the DaggerXL engine basically has to build everything to duplicate the original executable did from scratch. OpenMW was a bit of a touchier issue, since Bethseda still had the source code for Morrowind, but the OpenMW devs smoothed that over by specifying to Bethseda it was a free, open source program that used no executable code from the original game, and it would not be available for any platform save desktop/laptop computers (they were forbidden to port to any form of console, or stuff like Android). In the case of both engines, neither dev team charges a dime for them, and you still have to purchase a legally licensed copy of the games in question from Bethseda to use the engines in the first place.
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This isn't even remotely correct.

1. Bethesda (Zenimax) has explicitly stated that mod authors own their mods and the content within them. Your millage may vary depending on what your modifications are. (Assets vs a bug fix, for example.)
2. You can't make money off of mods per the Zenimax EULA (which is where mod authors actually get their rights from, not Bethesda.)

2. GAME MODS; OWNERSHIP AND LICENSE TO ZENIMAX
A. Ownership. As between You and ZeniMax, You are the owner of Your Game Mods and all intellectual property rights therein, subject to the licenses You grant to ZeniMax in this Agreement. You will not permit any third party to download, distribute or use Game Mods developed or created by You for any commercial purpose.
B. Notice on Game Mods. All Game Mods must indicate that ZeniMax is not the author of the Game Mods with additional language that "THIS MATERIAL IS NOT MADE, GUARANTEED OR SUPPORTED BY ZENIMAX OR ITS AFFILIATES."
C. ZeniMax Game Mod Platforms. You may submit Your Game Mods to one or more of ZeniMax’s platforms as designated or authorized by ZeniMax (collectively, "ZeniMax Platforms").
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and
D. No Fees for Use. In exchange for the Editor being provided to you free of charge, You agree that You will not charge or require, directly or indirectly, a fee or other consideration for others to download, install or use Your Game Mods, including without limitation selling, licensing or other commercial distribution or commercial exploitation (e.g., by renting, licensing, sublicensing, leasing, disseminating, uploading, downloading, transmitting, whether on a pay-per-play basis or otherwise) of any Game Mods without the express prior written consent of an authorized representative of ZeniMax. This includes distributing a Game Mods as part of any compilation You and/or other users may create. You further agree not to charge, accept or solicit, directly or indirectly, fees or non-monetary contributions for developing or creating Game Mods, including without limitation fees collected through "crowd funding." However, the foregoing limitations in this Section shall not apply if and to the extent such agreement violates applicable law. You further agree that You are only permitted to distribute the Game Mods to users who have purchased the Product through authorized and legitimate distribution channels, solely for use with such users’ own authorized copies of such Product and in accordance with and subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement and all applicable laws.
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While the second quote suggests you totally can sell mods with permission, it's actually just something they included because they're going to try paid mods again in the future. Or, they're at least keeping the option open.

Basically, she sued the youtuber over the "You will not permit any third party to download, distribute or use Game Mods developed or created by You for any commercial purpose." bit, as was her interpretation. Whether that was the right interpretation or not we won't know because they settled out of court.
 
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Yaks said:
This isn't even remotely correct.

1. Bethesda (Zenimax) has explicitly stated that mod authors own their mods and the content within them. Your millage may vary depending on what your modifications are. (Assets vs a bug fix, for example.)
2. You can't make money off of mods per the Zenimax EULA (which is where mod authors actually get their rights from, not Bethesda.)


and


While the second quote suggests you totally can sell mods with permission, it's actually just something they included because they're going to try paid mods again in the future. Or, they're at least keeping the option open.

Basically, she sued the youtuber over the "You will not permit any third party to download, distribute or use Game Mods developed or created by You for any commercial purpose." bit, as was her interpretation. Whether that was the right interpretation or not we won't know because they settled out of court.
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Okay, appreciate the clearing that up, didn't really know the legal specifics on whether they can be sold for profit or not, especially since Bethseda has granted mod authors a bit of leeway on the Nexus by allowing them to collect mod developer fees, which likely falls under that exception clause you mentioned.

Also, this clause has yet to really ever come into force:

C. ZeniMax Game Mod Platforms. You may submit Your Game Mods to one or more of ZeniMax’s platforms as designated or authorized by ZeniMax (collectively, "ZeniMax Platforms").

Ever since their earliest games, mod sites have popped up across the internet and they have done nothing to force people to limit them to specific sites, even with Bethseda.net filling this role.

Also, this clause has a bit of a legal hole I don't think their lawyers have examined:

A. Ownership. As between You and ZeniMax, You are the owner of Your Game Mods and all intellectual property rights therein, subject to the licenses You grant to ZeniMax in this Agreement. You will not permit any third party to download, distribute or use Game Mods developed or created by You for any commercial purpose.

Some modders have received the permission of other licensed game developers to reproduce their assets in whole or in part, such as from properties like TERA, Metal Gear Solid V, and Divine Divinity, which means Zenimax really can't complain in theory if you take that mod and port it's assets to yet another platform with the consent of their original licensed owner, since they don't have grounds to lay claim to them, even if that original licensed owner would allow commercial use.

I've yet to see someone actually test this theory, but it's something they don't address.
 
GethN7 said:
Okay, appreciate the clearing that up, didn't really know the legal specifics on whether they can be sold for profit or not, especially since Bethseda has granted mod authors a bit of leeway on the Nexus by allowing them to collect mod developer fees, which likely falls under that exception clause you mentioned.

Also, this clause has yet to really ever come into force:

C. ZeniMax Game Mod Platforms. You may submit Your Game Mods to one or more of ZeniMax’s platforms as designated or authorized by ZeniMax (collectively, "ZeniMax Platforms").

Ever since their earliest games, mod sites have popped up across the internet and they have done nothing to force people to limit them to specific sites, even with Bethseda.net filling this role.

Also, this clause has a bit of a legal hole I don't think their lawyers have examined:

A. Ownership. As between You and ZeniMax, You are the owner of Your Game Mods and all intellectual property rights therein, subject to the licenses You grant to ZeniMax in this Agreement. You will not permit any third party to download, distribute or use Game Mods developed or created by You for any commercial purpose.

Some modders have received the permission of other licensed game developers to reproduce their assets in whole or in part, such as from properties like TERA, Metal Gear Solid V, and Divine Divinity, which means Zenimax really can't complain in theory if you take that mod and port it's assets to yet another platform with the consent of their original licensed owner, since they don't have grounds to lay claim to them, even if that original licensed owner would allow commercial use.

I've yet to see someone actually test this theory, but it's something they don't address.
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Sites like the Nexus are authorized by Zenimax as Robin has a good relationship with them. He and the company are on business speaking terms and they often, if they see something they don't approve of, will message him to complain about it. I'm not sure about the other sites. These website clauses were added after Bethesda.net decided to try its hand at hosting mods.

And there's actually a lot more to the EULA, I was only quoting small parts. (You'll notice the A in there), which says you cannot grant license to Zenimax for assets you don't actually own. They also can't complain if you take your own assets (your ideas, 3d models and textures you've created or edited) and take them to another game because you own the copyright to them. You're own giving Zenimax a license to use your property, they don't own it or claim to, just the rights to use it. Trust me, they didn't miss anything.

EDIT: Also Darren, (DDProductions), isn't on the nexus anymore. He's been banned for like a year now. He just never asked to have his mods taken down.
 
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Yaks said:
Sites like the Nexus are authorized by Zenimax as Robin has a good relationship with them. He and the company are on business speaking terms and they often, if they see something they don't approve of, will message him to complain about it. I'm not sure about the other sites. These website clauses were added after Bethesda.net decided to try its hand at hosting mods.

And there's actually a lot more to the EULA, I was only quoting small parts. (You'll notice the A in there), which says you cannot grant license to Zenimax for assets you don't actually own. They also can't complain if you take your own assets (your ideas, 3d models and textures you've created or edited) and take them to another game because you own the copyright to them. You're own giving Zenimax a license to use your property, they don't own it or claim to, just the rights to use it. Trust me, they didn't miss anything.

EDIT: Also Darren, (DDProductions), isn't on the nexus anymore. He's been banned for like a year now. He just never asked to have his mods taken down.
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I see, thanks for addressing the information I was ignorant on, nice to know all this was covered.

Me, I just produce mods without expecting anything more than please credit me if you are gonna use it for something else or port it elsewhere but that's it, the possible downsides to anything involving money changing hands for any reason just seems like such a potential drama vortex to get mixed up in I try to avoid it.
 
Eh, honestly majority of modders are the same way.

Modders like Shezrie are hilarious though. She's one of those "HAHAHAHA I'M NOT MAD YOU'RE WRONG" after screeching via word-soup for several days. It's really easy to get under her skin. You don't even have to insult her, just somewhat disagree. She has very poor reading comprehension, so the moment she decides you disagree with her, you've just opened the flood gates of uniformed repetitive badgering from her until you go away.
 
GethN7 said:
Speaking of Skyrim modding drama, the guy who made "Civil War Overhaul" is what happens when SJWism and modding smash into brick walls. It's mentioned in the OP, but I'm gonna flesh it out a bit.

"Civil War Overhaul" is a mod for "Oldrim" that fleshes out the simplistic Civil War mode that was somewhat barebones in the stock game, using a combination of custom scripting and re-enabled code left in the game to make it more immersive. I've used it, and I'll give the guy credit, it did make the Civil War aspect way less boring.

Problem is, he just couldn't divorce his IRL politics from his modding, and he got some heat for trying to "diversify" Skyrim with more race representation even though it was the home of the Nords and some people went off half cocked about how it was shoving identity politics into a fantasy setting and breaking lore. Modding any game is arguably changing it's basic intentions to begin with anyway, unless you are merely re-adding content that was broken or disabled in the original game that was intended to be part of it to begin with, so this, while nitpicky if you ask me, was an issue of minor concern at one point because lore nerds did have a minor point here, especially because he wanted to shove this into CWO as a basic feature and not as an option and he threw a fit when people complained.

The part that was totally childish was the fact the creator took down all his mods and to this day has refused to put them up ever since Donald Trump won the presidency, and not having his mods available on the Nexus anymore is his idea of political protest, even though a more effective means of protest would be doing IRL things to support his preferred political party and/or criticizing Trump's activities as POTUS.
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Yup.
https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/582bp7/what_happen_to_civil_war_overhaul_mod/
This file has currently been set to hidden by the author of the file. You cannot look at this file page or download any files relating to this file until the author makes the file visible to the public again.

The reason given by the author is: All of my mods are hidden until November 9.

In a time where hatred screams loud from the dark recesses of the internet and my country, I will use my soapbox for something. For more information on what you can do to help, I suggest you visit Amnesty International.

BlackLivesMatter
LGBTRights
TransIsBeautiful
RefugeesWelcome
OccupyWallStreet
YesAllWomen

and...

ImWithHer
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And his mods weren't that great anyway. Just because they're great in scope (and bloated af) doesn't mean they're great in quality/bug-free. Unlike many modders, his descriptions on his mod pages were written in a casual style, but it just came across as unprofessional and obnoxious. Especially his FAQ sections. I remember browsing Dragon Combat Overhaul but the 'questions' in the FAQ were all like
Q: APOLLO Y UR MOD MAKE MY GAME CTD???? (yes, that's how he portrayed people with this kind of question)
A: *unfunny reaction gif telling the strawman asker to shut up/fuck off*
I don't know how frustrating answering n00b mod questions can get but you look like an utter twat when you lash out on your own mod page like that. lol, good riddance to bad mods.
 
I always knew that there were some gay pet-project mods but who would've thought that there'd be so much drama & meltdowns?
 
MarvinTheParanoidAndroid said:
I always knew that there were some gay pet-project mods but who would've thought that there'd be so much drama & meltdowns?
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My modding experience is mostly stuff I use for myself and either can't or won't distribute, but I get a definite sense of dickwaving in the Nexus mod author forums and in places like LoversLab. Everyone wants to be the one to drop some bombshell that all the users will want to download, but the reality is that most everything the tryhards make is going to be a niche product, like all the anime waifu mods for Skyrim or the millionth daedric bikini armor mod. So, as a result, drama when someone actually strikes gold and makes something popular.

The only place I've yet to find this behavior is GUNetwork, though that is probably due to the difficulties in the way they make mods and the legal grey area they inhabit. For the uninitiated, GUNetwork does a lot of asset conversion from other games to port to Fallout. Drama would draw undue attention from copyright holders, and I know they dont want that.
 
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ADN_VIII said:
I don't know if he does Skyrim nodding, but a serious drama whore in the Nexus community is DDProductions83. Around the early days of the Bethesda nodding platform, DD found that a few of his best but still crap mods had been uploaded to Bethesda without his permission. Rather than be a reasonable human being and make a video or blog post outlining his position and why he doesn't want to have his mods reuploaded, he threw a tantrum in a rambling YouTube video that included but was not limited to calling everyone who had requested console mods stupid cunts. His rage was pretty funny, and the half ass crusade thing he launched ended up getting him an indefinite ban from the Nexus on a primary and a sock account. My memory is a bit patchy, though, since I played Fallout 4 sporadically. Hey, @GethN7, do you know any more?
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I remember that rant video. Pretty hilarious. Anyone have it?
 
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