Social Security

[DykesDykesChina]

I think employing Chris would be similar to trying to employ a five year old child - an unusually wimpy and stupid child who is prone to temper tantrums. Incidentally, said child weighs around 100 kg or so.

But yes, it might be possible if done under supervision. Chris could be trained to do certain jobs, and I'm sure he'd soon start enjoying work. I actually could picture him as a delivery man of sorts. He enjoys driving and is smart enough to navigate to Cleveland and back. I think he could drive a van around town and deliver stuff.

 

[murdoc]

cwc's lack of worth ethic isn't surprising given his upbringing

i think he would seek out work if he found himself in myanmar with no way of getting home

 

[Holdek]

People really love to harp on the fact that Chris is a welfare leech. Whether or not he is truly mentally capable of holding a job is hugely debatable and beyond the scope of what I want to comment on right now.

I've heard time and time again that Chris is living off of the collective monies invested into the system by all of the hard working decent citizens who have taken interest in his antics. It just occurred to me, though, that this logic might be broken.

Bob worked for over 40 years and during that time paid into Social Security. Barb, it seems, worked for a similar period of time before retiring. What are the odds that both of them collectively used up their contributions in their years of retirement? My stab-in-the-dark guess would be that they didn't come anywhere near canceling out their net contribution, but I'd love to hear someone else chime in and give some rough math to prove or disprove this.

Either way, the point is that Barb and Bob helped fund the system that Chris is now legally entitled to; it's not unreasonable for Chris to be utilizing a service that his parents paid for.

What you described is not how SS is intended to function. You are not entitled to everything you paid into the system, just as you are not limited by what you paid into the system. You can work all your life paying SS taxes and croak at 65 as a widower having seen no benefits. Or you can work for a few years, become disabled, and get decades of SS payments without working. It's called Social Security Insurance for that reason. So many people don't understand this (mostly in political discussions) that it gets frustrating sometimes.

To the point about Chris, it's not that he get SS that grinds so many gears here; it's that he gets it without upholding any end of his side of the social contract, even though he probably could. If he tried over and over again and failed over and over again, most wouldn't begrudge him from sitting on his ass playing [cwc]vidya[/cwc] instead. But he refuses to even try to get a job and punch a card like the rest of us. In fact, his very rationale about this, as implicitly expressed over e-mails, is one of greed. He thinks (although erroneously) that he gets MORE MONEY from not working and just getting tha [cwc]tugboat[/cwc].

 

[Peepee]

It's called Social Security Insurance for that reason.

Yes, I understand that. I think I explained my point poorly.

All I was trying to say is, Chris' parents put a lot of money into the system over the years. Effectively, by collecting Social Security, he's negating the contributions of his parents. People who cry about how Chris is wasting money that they personally worked so hard for are being pretty ridiculous.

He's legally entitled to the money he receives. Collecting it is not fraud or anything of the sort. My original point was simply meant to drive the whole thing home: he's collecting back money that his parents had earned over the years. In the end, there's not much to be indignant over, aside from potential political arguments that the system has failed and he should not, in fact, be entitled to anything. But that's a whole different ball of wax and isn't Chris' fault.

 

[CatParty]

It's called Social Security Insurance for that reason.

Yes, I understand that. I think I explained my point poorly.

All I was trying to say is, Chris' parents put a lot of money into the system over the years. Effectively, by collecting Social Security, he's negating the contributions of his parents. People who cry about how Chris is wasting money that they personally worked so hard for are being pretty ridiculous.

He's legally entitled to the money he receives. Collecting it is not fraud or anything of the sort. My original point was simply meant to drive the whole thing home: he's collecting back money that his parents had earned over the years. In the end, there's not much to be indignant over, aside from potential political arguments that the system has failed and he should not, in fact, be entitled to anything. But that's a whole different ball of wax and isn't Chris' fault.

so literally and figuratively they've been paying for their "miracle"

 

[Kosher Dill]

Eh. The same social brokenness that makes it debatably impossible for him to be a decent employee makes it equally impossible for him to be an effective volunteer. If you think he could and should get a job, that's fine, but if you think he's broken enough to justify collecting disability benefits, that probably means he's broken enough to be absolved of his social duty to perform volunteer service as well.

Well, now he's definitely too broken to work, but at age 18 when he first got on board the tugboat, he probably wasn't - though he did legally meet the loose criteria for "100% disabled by autism".

 

[BigAltheGreat921]

I agree with most people here. There's really nothing that bad about having a tugboat, especially if one is pretty much unemployable. It's just that Chris abuses it; he just has no concept of money.

 

[CatParty]

I wouldn't even call it abusing it. (Believe me I am not white knighting) its his money now, let him be a dumbass with it. Maybe when he blows the tugboat and barb isn't around to give him his $5 a day to get McDonald's and he's starving, he might just lean a lesson about budgeting.

 

[GFYS]

Yeah, Chris is capable of work, yet he's simultaneously unemployable. Put it this way, can anybody here honestly say that they'd give him a job?

I would. If I repped a facility anywhere near Charlottesvile, I'd personally offer him the job myself. My associates and I have filled lots of menial positions with people with far greater mental and social handicaps. They require a lot of supervision. At the end of each quarter, we're lucky if we break even on them (frequently we lose a little), but it ultimately pays off by boosting morale and gaining community support. The catch is - these people want to work. They want to be big boys and girls, and work like mommy and daddy. They want to earn an income, so they can buy things they want. They want the personal satisfaction of doing something positive. They need the work credit to keep out of prison. They need the job, so their parents don't kick them out of the basement. Even if many of these employees aren't good at their given job, they at least put forth effort. Chris won't. I could gift wrap a job for Chris, and I could tailor it towards his special needs... However - unless mandated by a court order (even then, I have doubts) - he can just walk away any time he feels like it.

Fun Fact: Folks on the more-functional end of the autism spectrum frequently become very efficient employees, provided the position is tailored towards their tendency for routine and protect them from stressful social interaction. Last year, my main client promoted an HFA lady in her early 30s to an honorary management position (higher pay, benefits, and stock options, though no supervisor authority). She was more efficient than 2.5 of their other line workers (nearly 5 in their union shops), understood the equipment better than some of our contract technicians, so it stood to reason she should be paid just as much - or more - than all these people.

Chris isn't burdened with a mind that is powerful enough to encourage him to be more than he is. He will never know the satisfaction of achieving actual goals. He will collect digital trophies until he dies, and while he may want a little more out of life than that, it'll do. If he can eek out a D minus in life, well, that's still passing.

I suspect he had the mental faculties to realize self improvement, but his lack of will - fostered by Borb and the schools feeding his royal sense of entitlement - shut most of that off. Having been dormant for decades, I agree that his brain is beyond being salvaged. He'll never want to work hard to achieve anything.

 

[Tubular Monkey]

If it's any consolation, Chris returns 100% of the money to the economy within days of receiving it. The fact that he spends most of it on games he'll barely play and food that makes him crap himself is fine with me. It's not as though he's actually buying happiness. His gluttony helps to make him miserable.

 

[Bob's Fries]

If it's any consolation, Chris returns 100% of the money to the economy within days of receiving it. The fact that he spends most of it on games he'll barely play and food that makes him crap himself is fine with me. It's not as though he's actually buying happiness. His gluttony helps to make him miserable.

Sadly, that's only if he spends it on American companies like Microsoft or shit like that. But seeing how the PS3 is from Sony where it's a Non-American company... Not really. At least from what I remember from that one article in the Cwcki.

 

[BALLZ-BROKEN]

I read a news story (can't find a link) that basically stated Borb's generation had a gain from SSI when factoring in the withholding taxes, retirement age, and life expectancy. The baby boomers are going to break even or lose some.

As for gen-x and the millennials? Well, we're just fucked.

 

[QI 541]

If it's any consolation, Chris returns 100% of the money to the economy within days of receiving it. The fact that he spends most of it on games he'll barely play and food that makes him crap himself is fine with me. It's not as though he's actually buying happiness. His gluttony helps to make him miserable.

Sadly, that's only if he spends it on American companies like Microsoft or shit like that. But seeing how the PS3 is from Sony where it's a Non-American company... Not really. At least from what I remember from that one article in the Cwcki.

He buys from American retailers. I don't think it makes a difference if he buys Microsoft or Sony products.

 

[Holdek]

It's called Social Security Insurance for that reason.

Yes, I understand that. I think I explained my point poorly.

All I was trying to say is, Chris' parents put a lot of money into the system over the years. Effectively, by collecting Social Security, he's negating the contributions of his parents. People who cry about how Chris is wasting money that they personally worked so hard for are being pretty ridiculous.

He's legally entitled to the money he receives. Collecting it is not fraud or anything of the sort. My original point was simply meant to drive the whole thing home: he's collecting back money that his parents had earned over the years. In the end, there's not much to be indignant over, aside from potential political arguments that the system has failed and he should not, in fact, be entitled to anything. But that's a whole different ball of wax and isn't Chris' fault.

So what? His parents and he are different people. And he's an adult. You don't inherit your ancestors' SS "life balance."

Yeah, Chris is capable of work, yet he's simultaneously unemployable. Put it this way, can anybody here honestly say that they'd give him a job?

I would. If I repped a facility anywhere near Charlottesvile, I'd personally offer him the job myself. My associates and I have filled lots of menial positions with people with far greater mental and social handicaps. They require a lot of supervision. At the end of each quarter, we're lucky if we break even on them (frequently we lose a little), but it ultimately pays off by boosting morale and gaining community support. The catch is - these people want to work. They want to be big boys and girls, and work like mommy and daddy. They want to earn an income, so they can buy things they want. They want the personal satisfaction of doing something positive. They need the work credit to keep out of prison. They need the job, so their parents don't kick them out of the basement. Even if many of these employees aren't good at their given job, they at least put forth effort. Chris won't. I could gift wrap a job for Chris, and I could tailor it towards his special needs... However - unless mandated by a court order (even then, I have doubts) - he can just walk away any time he feels like it.

The only way you're going to get Chris to work a job, even if it's tailored 100% to his special needs, is if you make it as fun as playing [cwc]vidya[/cwc]. Or somehow set him up with an "office job" and a sweetheart.

I read a news story (can't find a link) that basically stated Borb's generation had a gain from SSI when factoring in the withholding taxes, retirement age, and life expectancy. The baby boomers are going to break even or lose some.

As for gen-x and the millennials? Well, we're just fucked.

I think you might have that backwards?

Earlier generations, due to lower life expectancy, won't get as much out of SS because they will have fewer years to collect it. Later ones will live longer past the retirement age. Plus income taxes were higher for much of Bob's life than they are now.

However, because of that and also due to population growth changes, SS taxes will have to be raised or benefits cut in order to sustain the program after a while.

 

[Scatman]

It's called Social Security Insurance for that reason.

Yes, I understand that. I think I explained my point poorly.

All I was trying to say is, Chris' parents put a lot of money into the system over the years. Effectively, by collecting Social Security, he's negating the contributions of his parents. People who cry about how Chris is wasting money that they personally worked so hard for are being pretty ridiculous.

He's legally entitled to the money he receives. Collecting it is not fraud or anything of the sort. My original point was simply meant to drive the whole thing home: he's collecting back money that his parents had earned over the years. In the end, there's not much to be indignant over, aside from potential political arguments that the system has failed and he should not, in fact, be entitled to anything. But that's a whole different ball of wax and isn't Chris' fault.

So what? His parents and he are different people. And he's an adult.

I think Chris could technically be considered an adult child.

 

[GFYS]

The only way you're going to get Chris to work a job, even if it's tailored 100% to his special needs, is if you make it as fun as playing [cwc]vidya[/cwc]. Or somehow set him up with an "office job" and a sweetheart.

Yup, pretty much. The failure lies in Chris' unwillingness to work, not necessarily a lack of jobs Chris is capable of completing.

 

[CatParty]

The only way you're going to get Chris to work a job, even if it's tailored 100% to his special needs, is if you make it as fun as playing [cwc]vidya[/cwc]. Or somehow set him up with an "office job" and a sweetheart.

Yup, pretty much. The failure lies in Chris' unwillingness to work, not necessarily a lack of jobs Chris is capable of completing.

not to mention he'd have a sexual harassment case against him almost immediately

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

The only way you're going to get Chris to work a job, even if it's tailored 100% to his special needs, is if you make it as fun as playing [cwc]vidya[/cwc].

Even if you decided playing vidya was his job, he still wouldn't like it, because you'd be imposing a schedule on him. Chris only truly wants to do things "when he feels like it".

 

[Anchuent Christory]

The only way you're going to get Chris to work a job, even if it's tailored 100% to his special needs, is if you make it as fun as playing [cwc]vidya[/cwc].

Even if you decided playing vidya was his job, he still wouldn't like it, because you'd be imposing a schedule on him. Chris only truly wants to do things "when he feels like it".

He lives in a perpetual state of "working on it"

 

[Holdek]

The only way you're going to get Chris to work a job, even if it's tailored 100% to his special needs, is if you make it as fun as playing [cwc]vidya[/cwc].

Even if you decided playing vidya was his job, he still wouldn't like it, because you'd be imposing a schedule on him. Chris only truly wants to do things "when he feels like it".

True.