Sony hate thread

[BananaSplit²]

Her outfits lack nuance. It's skimpy. The art design of her character reminds me too much of over-sexualized anime. It's just not for me.

I do find frankly funny that "anime" (or anything Japanese-related) has been made synonymous with female sexiness and teasing for the past decade and so.

Yes, they are art.

Videogames are supposed to be entertainment products firstmost. They can have artistic merits depending of the people in charge of designing characters, world, creatures, etc. I have vidya artbooks (such as Gravity Rush, Disgaea, Tactics Ogre, Vanillaware, Yomawari, the Atelier Dusk trilogy designed by Hidari, Xenoblade for examples) because I enjoyed their art which however acted as a complement of the gameplay that got me hooked too. Basically, there is an expected harmony (or balance) between the 'visual' part and the 'game' part.

The problem with the whole 'art' argument in videogames, as others may have implied, is that the western counterparts primarily use it to be pretentious by "breaking the boundaries of the medium" (simply said, sniffing their own farts) and make up for the lacking 'game' part. These titles are also not done out of passion either, and they sincerely feel like the contemporary art movement which is a gigantic money laundering scheme with no artistic drive whatsoever.

My brief two cents because I don't want to derail the thread over this topic further.

It sounds like they want to continue making shitty movies.

Fun fact, the old Japanese SCE did publish interactive drama anime movies on Playstation (PS1, PS2 and then on PSP), as part of the Yarudora serie which were developed by Sugar & Rockets Inc. and animated by Production IG. They had various choice prompts leading to different endings (a lot of bad ones - count at least a good dozen for each title).

サンパギータ / Sampaguita
Autumn. One rainy autumn evening, I was walking back home from a drinking party. I bump into a girl sitting in the rain, completely drenched in water. I notice a cut on her forehead - bleeding. I take her home with me. Her name is Maria, and she is from somewhere in the South East Asia, but she does not remember her identity. I search through her bag and find a photo, some cash, make-up set... and a hand gun....

雪割りの花 / Yukiwari no Hana
Winter. I live in a small town by a port. My life is very ordinary, I just go to a nearby college on a daily basis. One winter afternoon, my friend invited me to a party, but I refused to go because of a girl, Kaori Sakuragi, who lived next to me, whom I had a big crush on. That particular afternoon, I witness her kissing a man. It hurts my feelings greatly. Following the incident, I hear a knock on the door. As I open the door, I see two policemen standing. They ask, "Do you happen to know a girl named Kaori Sakuragi?"

Obviously not something you'd see from Playstation these days.
Also that interview did mention they'd focus on AI tools for the development of their new projects but I suspect them to just cut a lot of corners instead.

 

[Incecticyder]

Videogames are supposed to be entertainment products firstmost. They can have artistic merits depending of the people in charge of the design of characters, world, creatures, etc.
I have vidya artbooks (such as Gravity Rush, Disgaea, Tactics Ogre, Vanillaware, Yomawari, the Atelier Dusk trilogy designed by Hidari, Xenoblade for examples) because I enjoyed their art which however acted as a complement of the gameplay that got me hooked too. Basically, there is an expected harmony (or balance) between the 'visual' part and the 'game' part.

The problem with the whole 'art' argument in videogames, as others may have implied, is that the western counterparts primarily use it to be pretentious by "breaking the boundaries of the medium" (simply said, sniffing their own farts) and make up for the lacking 'game' part. These titles are also not done out of passion either, and they sincerely feel like the contemporary art movement which is a gigantic money laundering scheme with no artistic drive whatsoever.

My closing arguements as I am also not going to talk about this any longer either: A house can be art even if it has the purpose of providing shelter first, food is art even though it is meant to be for sustainance first etc etc. Pretentiousness as a means to hide talentlessness and lack of passion is nothing new.

 

[Celebrate Nite]

A house can be art even if it has the purpose of providing shelter first

Counter Point: Just because it CAN be, doesn't mean it SHOULD be.

When you decide to turn your house into something Barbie would live in

When the rest of the houses on the block look like this...

Then at that point, you're just a douchebag that's flaunting for attention.

See Also: Every building owned by a pajeet.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Games can be art, it depends on your intention. The dude who made Space Invaders probably wasn't trying to make art, but whoever made Journey probably was.

I think a lot of people are repulsed by the notion of calling games art because of its pretentious connotation in modern day, it conjures up visions of TLOU2 or a tranny game on itch.io instead of, I don't know, Wind Waker.

 

[moocow]

Then at that point, you're just a douchebag that's flaunting for attention.

You're on an HOA board, aren't you?

 

[Incecticyder]

Back on track.
Neil Druckmann should learn that rejected first drafts are not to be recycled so easily for the sequel. It has been rejected for a reason and that reason was not "it was too good". A classic case of being too married to a story/idea the Cave Johnson way.

Have to say though, I am really impressed with Neil 's ability to remove everyone more talented than him from Naughty Dog and become top dog.

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

Counter Point: Just because it CAN be, doesn't mean it SHOULD be.

I like to liken it to the Gummy de Milo from the Simpsons.

Sure, candy *can* be art, but if every piece of candy was art candy would fucking suck ass.

Much like games, the push to make them all into some artform has ruined what made them great (fun).

 

[Pepe Cortisona]

He programmed the menu screens on Jak X: Combat Racing (2005), which he considered one of the most difficult tasks of his career.[10]: He continued to assist with smaller design tasks where possible.

Creating The Last of Us series was a task easier than programming a menu for a PS2 game.

 

[ShitLurker]

It was two people but for two different games. For Uncharted 4, it was Amy Hennig, who among other things, was the main writer for the Uncharted series. I don't know much of the details but apparently Uncharted 4 was suppose to be very different but Neil forced her out and then made a bunch of changes. Sam and Rafe were supposedly very different characters and the Nadine character was an addition made by Neil. So there's a framework of Amy's writing there somewhere but he wrote over a lot of it apparently.

For TLOU1, it was Bruce Straley (Bruce and Neil were co-directors on TLOU1). The way it was described was that Neil would throw out like 5 ideas but only 1 was good while the other 4 were completely retarded. Bruce tard wrangled him hard and managed to filter his schizo vomit into making a good product. He eventually forced Bruce out of the company and supposedly a lot of the concepts and ideas from TLOU2 were his ideas that Bruce rejected for TLOU1 but he reworked them to fit with the sequel. For example, the original story for TLOU1 involved Joel betraying Tess and she would hunt him across the country and Bruce rejected it because it made no sense for someone to do that in an ultra dangerous post-apocalyptic world. Of course Neil couldn't help himself and he reworked it for TLOU2.

What amazes me the most is how a retard unable to do menus like Cuckman ended up taking over one of the biggest money printing studios for Sony and drive it into the ground so savagely? Why was he not told to fuck off or sacked? Was it little hat privilege, what?

Nobody considers games as an art form. They're just nonsensical pieces of fun and entertainment just to have fun. But yet nowadays, ever since the recession, something as niche as video games, and the entirety of nerd culture, have ended up becoming serious business, trying to use them as art or political statements, so of course big corpos such as Sony and Microsoft would consider vidya as "art form"

On the games are art thing.... I'm tired of the debate to be honest, the more people start fellating the whole "games are art" the more they get lost in their own asshole. It also falls into "what do you count as art". The original Mario and Mega Man X are a master class in level design, is that art? Or only do pretty graphics and artistic direction count as art in gaming like Vanillaware? Does generating emotions outside of the expected "fun" that a videogame should be intended to do make it more artful? Same as geek shit going mainstream being pure monkey paw, feels the same way about games become super serial, I preferred it when they were the realm of kids and manchildren with some studios pushing the envelope here and there.

 

[blablabla]

Id take Mario as art before any of this moviegames shit

 

[Incecticyder]

Well, if you can 't beat them, join them. (You guys really want to talk art, huh? Alright then.)

The original Mario and Mega Man X are a master class in level design, is that art?

Yes, it is! Why can 't we talk about the level design the same way an art critic talks about the brushwork on a painting? Game develoment is making something out of computer code the same way painting is creating something out of paint.

Or only do pretty graphics and artistic direction count as art in gaming like Vanillaware?

They can be art too. They arre just not the only part of videogame thats art.

Does generating emotions outside of the expected "fun" that a videogame should be intended to do make it more artful?

The gameplay has to be fun. The story can generate whatever emotion feels appropriate (sadness for sad moment, rage for angry moment etc etc).

Id take Mario as art before any of this moviegames shit

At least Mario is proud of being a game as opposed to ashamed of it.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

The gameplay has to be fun.

Not really, since visual novels count.

Aside from those it at least has to be tolerable though. There's games with great art, music, and/or story that I've liked enough to push through gameplay that otherwise wouldn't hold up. Final Fantasy XIII comes to mind, the combat is serviceable, so I can still enjoy the nice art, beautiful music, and nonsensical """story""".

 

[Jaimas]

Nobody considers games as an art form. They're just nonsensical pieces of fun and entertainment just to have fun. But yet nowadays, ever since the recession, something as niche as video games, and the entirety of nerd culture, have ended up becoming serious business, trying to use them as art or political statements, so of course big corpos such as Sony and Microsoft would consider vidya as "art form"

The question is not whether or not games can be art, that was settled years before Microsoft or Sony had anything to do with video games.

The answer was and still is yes.

The question is whether or not games must be high art, and the answer there is fuck no.

They can be, but they don't fucking have to be. They can be just dumb fun, and that's perfectly satisfactory.
And if the two meet in the middle, that's fucking wonderful. If they don't, that's fine too. But do not let this shit trick you on why they keep bringing this shit up.

The usual suspects don't see games as an interactive medium, they see it as something to be controlled like movies, television, and similar, which is why when they make arguments like "lesser" games "holding the artform back" and "fun being a neurological trick" and demanding gaming be "opened up" so it can mature into something better; what they really mean is that it can be more controlled, further gatekept, and with more single points of failure they can exploit. More than anything, they hate that they got to the table too late to control this medium and that there's no real barriers to entry, so anyone can (and should) make games.

 

[Celebrate Nite]

Not really, since visual novels count.

>Not thinking visual novels are fun
bob and vagene aside, shit like the Phoenix Wright series is fucking fantastic.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

>Not thinking visual novels are fun
bob and vagene aside, shit like the Phoenix Wright series is fucking fantastic.

It seems to have come across wrong, I like visual novels, I was just saying that their gameplay often isn't fun (or hardly even exists, and when it does it's sometimes kinda shitty like Danganronpa's minigames).

The best ones incorporate other genres into them imo, like Hotel Dusk and Zero Escape. Even some kinetic visual novels are good though.

 

[DocAwe]

Id take Mario as art before any of this moviegames shit

 

[TVB]

View attachment 6026435

Don't forget this gem that was only available on the poorly-sold N64DD in Japan only

 

[Lone MacReady II]

Counter Point: Just because it CAN be, doesn't mean it SHOULD be.

When you decide to turn your house into something Barbie would live in
View attachment 6024679

When the rest of the houses on the block look like this...
View attachment 6024681

Then at that point, you're just a douchebag that's flaunting for attention.

See Also: Every building owned by a pajeet.

Pajeets also Vishnu-up their houses as a sign to other pajeets in the area that this is "their" area. Like Niggers and shoes on telephone wires.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

The question is whether or not games must be high art, and the answer there is fuck no.

I mean, pop art is a thing, as is outsider art. Most people wouldn't consider comic books to be high art, but their still art. Same with child finger paintings. Video games don't have to be high art, no. And I think a lot of the issues that exist with this debate today come from people desperately wanting video games to be considered high art. It took years before movies could be considered a form of high art and not just cheap entertainment for the masses. Video games are just going through the same growing pains that film went through.

Videogames are supposed to be entertainment products firstmost.

You could say that about most, if not all, forms of art; tv shows, films, books, comic books/manga/graphic novels, music, etc. Even paintings and sculptures are primarily made as products to be sold.

 

[Thiletonomics]

What amazes me the most is how a retard unable to do menus like Cuckman ended up taking over one of the biggest money printing studios for Sony and drive it into the ground so savagely? Why was he not told to fuck off or sacked? Was it little hat privilege, what?

Druckmann being Jewish, probably played a part, in addition to Sony wanting to make games into "narrative experiences". And don't the higher heads at the various Sony studios like Druckmann have massive pull, just for being them? It also appears to be the case, because Sony gives Polyphony Digital's CEO and Gran Turismo director Kazunori Yamauchi a lot of power and autonomy, because of GT's legacy, and also because Sony does not want to alienate of the very few Japanese studios remaining under the PS umbrella.