Sony hate thread

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Belvedere said:
Also, saying that devices with optical drives are being mass produced, while true, it is ultimately meaningless. VHS Players and CRT TVs were being mass produced when the first DVDs players and LCD monitors/TVs were rolling out to market. Those analog devises were produced by the millions and you'll be hard pressed to find any still in use today in an average household. These are completely gone just like optical drives are going to be gone before long. It may be a gradual process but inevitably that's going to be the end result. Everything is moving to digital download and solid state storage.
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CRT TVs are massively complicated to manufacture and require huge investments to keep going, VCRs less so but they were by no means simple devices.

The CD from the beginning was designed to have cheap and easy to produce players and discs. DVD followed suit, and while BluRay complicates things a bit not a lot. I expect the investment needed to cater to a niche market is not much and worth continuing for someone indefinitely. The question would really be what is the quality of those products? Tape decks are still made but the mechanism is not of high quality.
 
Ibanez RG 350EX said:
Is it emulating the PS2 games or the PS3 ports? I'll bet it's the latter.

Don't take my word for it - go try it in PCSX2 yourself.
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Sly is one of those games I've been autistically fond of since I was a kid. The ps3 ports sucked and were initially the only way to play the originals outside of having a ps2, but recently they dropped a PS2 port of Sly 1 and it runs great on ps4/ps5. Sly 2 and 3 are in the works as well I believe.

I dont know much about game dev shit but I remember people saying Sly had a weird level of copy protection for a game of it's time as well. Not that it was never broken but that could be part of why emulating it is such a chore.

That being said I agree with your point, the fact it took this long to get the original to be playable on modern consoles sucks. pcsx2 always had issues with that game for sure, it took me days of tweaking the settings to get it to run well.
 
Captain Dipshit said:
I dont know much about game dev shit but I remember people saying Sly had a weird level of copy protection for a game of it's time as well. Not that it was never broken but that could be part of why emulating it is such a chore.

That being said I agree with your point, the fact it took this long to get the original to be playable on modern consoles sucks. pcsx2 always had issues with that game for sure, it took me days of tweaking the settings to get it to run well.
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From what I understand (and I'm a total layman when it comes to this stuff), the PS2 truncates its floating point calculations in a different way than the IEEE spec that every other piece of hardware conforms to.

Most games that still have serious emulation issues are due to using a lot of those fucky floating-point calculations - you can either custom truncate the result without hardware acceleration which makes games very slow or use inaccurate (compared to the PS2) results, which breaks things.
 
Hello, Sony haters. I need your advice on something. Are the Sony MDR 7506s good headphones? I have been suggested these headphones in my headphone thread, and it seems like many people love the Sony MDR 7506s, but I have seen some reviews from people who think there are better headphones within the same price range, so I want your advice: should I buy the Sony MDR 7506s or not?
 
Celebrate Nite said:
Streaming video games is the dumbest fucking idea anyone could ever come up with. Seriously, just ask Google how well that went with Stadia.

Unlike movies, games need precise inputs for even the simplest things like moving around. It's bad enough there's already slight lag on actual hardware ever since everything went digital and continues to get worse with newer TVs, adding more lag ontop of lag is just a death sentence.
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If they can convince users that 1Tb is an acceptable storage option and 30fps is an acceptable framerate, it’s not too big a stretch to convince them that input lag is normal. They just have to propose it the right way.
 
Spaced Outside Cargo said:
If they can convince users that 1Tb is an acceptable storage option and 30fps is an acceptable framerate, it’s not too big a stretch to convince them that input lag is normal. They just have to propose it the right way.
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>Oh shit, I missed the kill shot on my FPS game because my internet is shit on this stream-only game
>Oh shit, my uppercut didn't connect on my fighting game because my internet is shot on this stream-only game
<BETTER DROP A FUCK-TON OF MONEY ON "PROPER" EQUIPMENT SO I CAN VIDYA BETTER!!
There is literally nothing normal about this when we have DECADES of examples of how gaming is SUPPOSED to be.
 
Baraka Obama said:
Not that I doubt you but what was wrong with them?
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There were a lot of weird visual bugs, and one big issue that comes to mind is the Mz. Ruby boss fight. In the ps2 version it's synced to music and you press the buttons as they fly at you, in a sort of mini-rhythm game. The ps3 "remaster" on The Sly Collection somehow completely fucked it up. I cant remember if they redid the music but either way, the music wasn't in sync.
 
Baraka Obama said:
Not that I doubt you but what was wrong with them?
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In addition to what Captain Dipshit said about the rhythm game boss fight being out of sync in Sly 1, Sly 2 had some weird shit going on with the animated cutscenes like they were showing more than they were supposed to, kind of like when you forcible increase the window size on a flash game. Also had an animated cutscene crash the game on it one time. Sly 3 has some weird shit where the anti-aliasing on 2D art assets and fonts flickers on and off in menus. And there's a mission in Sly 3 where you enter a couple dark caves with a glowing orb tied to your back as your main light source, and the PS3 version seemed to have screwed up the lighting coding or something because the game chugs at a choppy framerate in those sections when they're perfectly fine on PS2.

There might have also been some other minor bugs or maybe there's some change based on your PS3 model, but that's stuff I remember running into when I played it.
 
Celebrate Nite said:
>Oh shit, I missed the kill shot on my FPS game because my internet is shit on this stream-only game
>Oh shit, my uppercut didn't connect on my fighting game because my internet is shot on this stream-only game
<BETTER DROP A FUCK-TON OF MONEY ON "PROPER" EQUIPMENT SO I CAN VIDYA BETTER!!
There is literally nothing normal about this when we have DECADES of examples of how gaming is SUPPOSED to be.
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“Silly end user, low latency gaming is for the PS Streamplay Plus Ultimate subscription tier!
We had to move to streaming because consumer hardware doesn’t have enough terrashits per petafart to render Miles Morales’s ass jiggle as he zip zip zooms through NYC. Also AI or some shit. By benevolently letting you use our hardware, we save YOU money by only charging $600 for the box to stream it (*plus subscription fees).”
 
Captain Dipshit said:
but recently they dropped a PS2 port of Sly 1 and it runs great on ps4/ps5. Sly 2 and 3 are in the works as well I believe.
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All three PS2 games have been released on the store and can be bought on PS4/PS5 for $10 each.
Says they came out in Dec 2024, but emulated games are often PS+ Premium timed exclusive, so I don't know how long you've been able to actually buy them.
 
Ibanez RG 350EX said:
From what I understand (and I'm a total layman when it comes to this stuff), the PS2 truncates its floating point calculations in a different way than the IEEE spec that every other piece of hardware conforms to.
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It's not simply truncation. Several kinds of edge cases are simply not handled.

A good example is NaN (Not a Number). This is a value that's produced when you do some kind of operation that has an indeterminate or complex result ie 0/0 or square root of a negative number. The thing about NaNs on IEEE 754 compliant hardware is that they must always propagate - any operation done with a NaN as an input must always produce a NaN. This means that most hardware will actually short circuit and not do any computation at all when it gets a NaN, simply producing the standard NaN value into the register.

PS2 does not do this. It treats generated NaNs as normal values and some games bizarrely take advantage of this behavior.

There's also similar issues like no infinity (neither positive nor negative), no denormalized numbers, and the rounding mode always rounding to zero (except even then it only sort of resembles how IEEE 754 does it).

It's a massive headache to deal with.

Funnily enough, we had a kind of similar situation with Gamecube emulation up until the 2010s. The Gamecube's GPU, unlike most GPUs of the time, only operated using integers as opposed to floating-point numbers. This meant that pretty much every GC emulator either had to emulate the GPU using integer logic on the CPU or fudge results to fit integer values using floating-point math on GPUs. This changed when CUDA-capable GPUs (and then ensuing OpenCL designs from AMD) started being adopted in the late 00s and early 2010s because they finally allowed for native integer operations on the GPU itself.
 
DeadwastePrime said:
its not that terrible an idea but the main limiter is internet speed/bandwith related, but thats an isp issue and cant easily be fixed on the user's side
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It's a stupid idea in an age where storage is cheap and SSDs can be very small in physical size and there are ways we could work to mitigate issues when it comes to file sizes and DL times if anyone cared to. It's a profuse waste of bandwidth to stream games and only serves as DRM for impatient cattle.
 
(Disclaimer: I like this autistic tech stuff, I don't care about Sony or the fact that it will have NO GAYMES!)


MLID opens up with an AI example I brought up in the thread a couple of weeks ago (conversing with Elder Scrolls NPCs, which could be done with the microphone in a controller). In practice, talking to your games could get old fast and most people would pick a default dialogue option.

ps6-orion.webp ps6-orion-full.webp

So, after sleeping on it I thought I would point a few things out that apparently aren't obvious to everyone:

1) The RTX 5090 will be likely around 100% better at rasterization than the PS6 lol - that's MASSIVELY higher performance, and that's why the 4nm 5090 is such a power hog compared to the future 3nm PS6. Furthermore, people should remember how BAD the 5090 is at gaming/area. The RTX 5090 is like double the size of the RTX 5080, and yet only 50% faster! It's a VERY inefficient GPU for GAMING. Seriously look it up, it's pathetic at gaming/watt.

2) PS6 will use a better node than current GPUs, more modern and efficient memory, and a purpose-built operating system - all of those things will also cut down on power compared to a windows PC.

3) A lot of people around here don't remember how stupid haters sounded regarding the XSX and PS5 back in 2019. Back in 2019 there were people claiming it would be impossible for the PS5 to even beat a 2070, and by the time the PS5 launched the 3070 was already out and slightly faster than the PS5. Think about it - if the PS6 is HALF the raster performance of the 5090, what do you think that means compared to the 6090? Basically every generation Sony has chosen a GPU for the latest PS Console that is between the latest Nvidia 60 and 80 GPU depending on how expensive they want the console to be. Half the Raster of the 5090 means it's likely around as fast as an RTX 6070 or 6060 Ti.

4) Relatively speaking Nvidia hasn't really improved Ray Tracing PER CORE almost at all since Ampere. I mean look it up - the 5080 isn't really better than the 4080 SUPER at Ray Tracing despite having more CUDA cores, ~30% more memory bandwidth, and higher clocks! https://www.techspot.com/articles-info/2947/bench/RT-AW2-p.webp

That means Nvidia hasn't improved Ray Tracing AT ALL between the last two generations besides just making bigger GPUs. RDNA 5 does the opposite - it trades rasterization performance for Ray Tracing. Were Nvidia to have made the same trade the PS6 will make by now, the 5080 would be as good as the (current) 5090 at Ray Tracing, but in raster it would have fallen down a peg in that form of performance.

Alright, so put it all together - All Sony is claiming in the documents I have is that they have a GPU as fast as the 6060 Ti or 6070 in 2027 that uses the same energy as a typical console lol. That isn't anymore insane than when we learned in 2019 that Sony would put a next-gen SSD in a $500 console...and they did do that despite what the armchair experts on Reddit said...

And finally, cope: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/9760...trike-against-leakers-video-on-ps5/index.html


If I put the 6060 Ti in the thumbnail, I would have still had to clarify the 6060 Ti probably is around a 5080 or 5090 in Ray Tracing lol. (People don't seem to get that is also what I am implying)

There may only be 7x Zen 6c cores for games to run on, which is technically not a core count loss because PS5 runs OS/background on 1-2(?) of its 8 cores, and the PS6 will get two additional "LP" cores dedicated for that instead (LP = area/power efficient, much lower clocks, otherwise the same as a Zen 6 core with SMT).

Zen 2 to Zen 6 is probably about +50-60% gaming IPC (and affected by L3 cache). PS5 runs Zen 2 cores at a low 3.5 GHz turbo. Zen 5c cores in Strix/Krackan Point run at up to 3.3-3.5 GHz turbo. I wouldn't be shocked to see +25% turbo speed (4.3-4.4 GHz) for Zen 6c in PS6. 1.6 * 1.25 = 2.0, exactly double. On top of all that, developers get support for AVX-512 instructions, which could give a further large performance increase if they're willing to use them.

Rasterization performance could be comparable to an RTX 5080 and aim for 4K60 native or 4K120 with PiSSeR. Ray/path tracing uplift from PS5 will be immense, around an order of magnitude.

He says 30 GB or 40 GB for the RAM pool. Does 40 GB even make sense? It seems to me that it would have to be 30 GB for a 160-bit controller (10x 3 GB GDDR7 modules). 40 GB could be achieved with future 4 GB GDDR7 modules which I doubt would be ready (or cheap) at the launch of the console. Or there would need to be a separate memory controller for a cheaper memory pool dedicated to AI. Despite teasing AI features at the start of the video, he doesn't mention an NPU at all, but it looks like there is one in the die renders for Orion and Canis (handheld). The slightly smaller big rectangle in the picture. A future video will probably be dedicated to discussing the NPU.
 
Captain Dipshit said:
Sly is one of those games I've been autistically fond of since I was a kid. The ps3 ports sucked and were initially the only way to play the originals outside of having a ps2, but recently they dropped a PS2 port of Sly 1 and it runs great on ps4/ps5. Sly 2 and 3 are in the works as well I believe.

I dont know much about game dev shit but I remember people saying Sly had a weird level of copy protection for a game of it's time as well. Not that it was never broken but that could be part of why emulating it is such a chore.

That being said I agree with your point, the fact it took this long to get the original to be playable on modern consoles sucks. pcsx2 always had issues with that game for sure, it took me days of tweaking the settings to get it to run well.
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That whole series is furry bait at this point so I'd be cautious around it.
 
Personally I'm taking everything spec-wise about the PS6 with a massive grain of salt. We've heard like four or five conflicting leaks about this thing and it's not even slated to be out until 2027/2028. A lot of it reminds me of the hype we heard in the PS5 and Series X leaks about them being able to humble high-end gaming PCs but immediately being shat upon by budget Ampere cards.

On a product-development level, I think Sony needs absolute rock-solid guarantees from AMD that they'll be able to make an APU with those specs cheaply. MLID can point at the size of the die all day and speculate, "well it should be quite cheap to make" but that has never turned out to be the case over the last 5 or 6 years. And the price of hardware is what's really hampering adoption right now - if the PS5 was $300, every male in America under the age of 50 would have one.

Also I've become increasingly suspicious that the 'leakers' MLID is in contact with are actually just stealth marketing guys who realize that they have a captive hypebeast that they can turn loose without having to actually be accountable for the talking points they're handing out.
 
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