Sperg about comic books here

[Alexander Thaut]

Yup voiced by Julie Bowen. Iirc she was in a shipwreck and Hippolyta took her in.

Are they doing anything with Alan Scott bc they made a big deal about him being gay and ppl were butthurt and then they just killed off his husband in the origin story or something.

watch them memory hole that, or attempt to.

Anyways Alan Scott being gay is kinda nonsensical because he's like the one other JSA dude who's known for multiple romances and whatnot. Like, you could just as easily take another revived JSA member or something and do it to them.

like, idk, Johnny Thunder?

It has been going downhill since 1986. I can buy arguments about how original Crisis was needed (thou I disagree) and all that, but DC fucked up the fallout and it has been slow decline since then. Only difference now, versus 1990s lets say, is that the rot has progressed to such an extent that it is impossible not to notice it anymore.

On the contrary. We need less fans in this business. All the retarded shippings, character ownerships, stupid continuity fixes (that end up causing more continuity issues), constant origin retelling and "my favourite character is best at everything" shit is direct consequence of fans getting into the business.

We need the right kind of fans in the business. In as much as I sorta don't want to bring it up, but Geoff Johns and Grant Morrison are big silver age fanboys and at least their stuff is a thousand times more enjoyable than someone like Mariko Tamaki.

The decade or so following the original Crisis was definitely my favorite DC period. Superman is consistently great from Byrne's work up until a little while after the Fall of Metropolis arc, likewise with Batman from roughly Jim Starlin's run until sometime after No Man's Land. James Robinson's Starman is also some of my favorite comics (shame he's never really done anything nearly as good... or even good). Then you also had Justice League International / Europe for a while. There was also a good (though largely forgotten) JSA book that followed their return from Ragnarok as aged heroes (it ended with a lot of them dying during Zero Hour). George Perez' Wonder Woman was also terrific, as was Peter David's Aquaman and Mark Waid's Flash.

I think it was a great time because of the shitload of B list books that were fun, like the Charlton characters in their DC books. Or the JLI stuff.

And obviously the books on the big A listers were great too but you had so much fun shit back then. Suicide Squad was new, The Atom had a weird Power of the Atom thing. Hawkworld was fun.

and then Zero hour came and killed half the JSA and removed the possibility of having The Original Atom get by and develop character in the modern age with his successors. JFC.

and then 90s Hawkman was a bust.

the pre-zero hour JSA book was fun. It introduced Jesse Quick and left a cliffhanger on the last Badhenesian that they're never going to tie up because Jakeem THunder exists.


uh what else can I say? Uh, there were a lot of decent ideas that got mangled by the higher ups like that one where Captain Atom was supposed to be Monarch.


I think they could have pushed Zatanna as a heroine and made her A-list if they tried.

 

[Quantum Diabetes]

What high quality comic podcasts do you guys like? Spider talk is great. Rob Liefeld has run out of steam and stutters and loses his train of thought more and more with each episode.
It's getting hard to tell episodes apart as he seems to repeat stories wholesale every few episodes.

The passage of time has really diminished my love for 90s artwork, even the really talented image creators like Keown and Silvestri. Wish I could feel that magic again.

 

[GranDuke]

We need the right kind of fans in the business. In as much as I sorta don't want to bring it up, but Geoff Johns and Grant Morrison are big silver age fanboys and at least their stuff is a thousand times more enjoyable than someone like Mariko Tamaki.

Who is less enjoyable than Mariko?

But on a more serious note I think that Morrison is a bit unique case since he fundamentally approaches super-heroes differently than everyone else. And Johns is ugh. Sure, technically he is competent writer, but for the life of me I can't understand how he and Didio managed to pull off this good cop/bad cop dynamic.

 

[jspit2.0]

Meh if this shit keeps AT&T from taking DC behind a shed I'm okay with them existing.

No fucking thank you. Shut em down for a decade and start fresh later.

It has been going downhill since 1986. I can buy arguments about how original Crisis was needed (thou I disagree) and all that, but DC fucked up the fallout and it has been slow decline since then. Only difference now, versus 1990s lets say, is that the rot has progressed to such an extent that it is impossible not to notice it anymore.

On the contrary. We need less fans in this business. All the retarded shippings, character ownerships, stupid continuity fixes (that end up causing more continuity issues), constant origin retelling and "my favourite character is best at everything" shit is direct consequence of fans getting into the business.

Wow, just wow. Let's just, take this slowly.

It has been going downhill since 1986.

No. This has been covered by other's on here like @Aqua Panda and but facts show neither a decline in sale post 1986 or quality.

I can buy arguments about how original Crisis was needed (thou I disagree)

Well, opinions and assholes I guess.

DC comics continuity pre-crisis was a nightmare with hundreds of contradictory stories. Coie was an overcorrection, but it was needed.

But DC fucked up the fallout and it has been slow decline

Let's take one, just one, fucking character. Superman. Since 1986 we have Byrne's MoS. Ordway, Stern, Jurgens. Jeph Loeb Superman with Tim Sale. Truth Justice and the American Way.

If you were to name the five top Superman stories, maybe one would be before 1986.

On the contrary. We need less fans in this business. All the retarded shippings, character ownerships, stupid continuity fixes (that end up causing more continuity issues), constant origin retelling and "my favourite character is best at everything" shit is direct consequence of fans getting into the business.

Meh? I don't think Tom King is a shit writer because he's a fan. The best comics writers and artists have been fanboys. Alan Moore, Frank Miller, Kelley Jones, and Jim Lee grew up loving comics.

Much better to have a fan shepherding a property that loves it then someone who isn't invested and doesn't care how you ruin it.

But on a more serious note I think that Morrison is a bit unique case since he fundamentally approaches super-heroes differently than everyone else.

Alan Moore, Frank Miller, and Walt Simonson were all playing with restoration themes in the early 80s and Moore, Busiek, Ross, and Miller spent much of the nineties toying with reconstruction. Morrison isn't new or original

And Johns is ugh. Sure, technically he is competent writer, but for the life of me I can't understand how he and Didio managed to pull off this good cop/bad cop dynamic.

He's a little better than competent. But that would imply he and Dan Didio saw eye to eye. They started to split in '09/10 around Flash Rebirth and the cleavage between them wound up destroying DC six years later.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Who is less enjoyable than Mariko?

But on a more serious note I think that Morrison is a bit unique case since he fundamentally approaches super-heroes differently than everyone else. And Johns is ugh. Sure, technically he is competent writer, but for the life of me I can't understand how he and Didio managed to pull off this good cop/bad cop dynamic.

DC needs competent writers and an editor like Julius Schwartz again.

No fucking thank you. Shut em down for a decade and start fresh later.


Wow, just wow. Let's just, take this slowly.


No. This has been covered by other's on here like @Aqua Panda and but facts show neither a decline in sale post 1986 or quality.



Well, opinions and assholes I guess.

DC comics continuity pre-crisis was a nightmare with hundreds of contradictory stories. Coie was an overcorrection, but it was needed.


Let's take one, just one, fucking character. Superman. Since 1986 we have Byrne's MoS. Ordway, Stern, Jurgens. Jeph Loeb Superman with Tim Sale. Truth Justice and the American Way.

If you were to name the five top Superman stories, maybe one would be before 1986.


Meh? I don't think Tom King is a shit writer because he's a fan. The best comics writers and artists have been fanboys. Alan Moore, Frank Miller, Kelley Jones, and Jim Lee grew up loving comics.

Much better to have a fan shepherding a property that loves it then someone who isn't invested and doesn't care how you ruin it.


Alan Moore, Frank Miller, and Walt Simonson were all playing with restoration themes in the early 80s and Moore, Busiek, Ross, and Miller spent much of the nineties toying with reconstruction. Morrison isn't new or original

He's a little better than competent. But that would imply he and Dan Didio saw eye to eye. They started to split in '09/10 around Flash Rebirth and the cleavage between them wound up destroying DC six years later.

We need some restoration and reconstruction themes again.

pre-crisis superman set up a lot of the mythos but it was never properly synthesized. The fucking sand-superman story was a weird attempt at lowering his power level.

I'd love the Simonsons to get more involved in writing these days tbh. I can't think of anything either of them has written that was anything less than fun and decent. Hell, Louise Simonson's Steel is mildly underrated for how fun it was imo.

 

[jspit2.0]

DC needs competent writers and an editor like Julius Schwartz again.

We need some restoration and reconstruction themes again.

pre-crisis superman set up a lot of the mythos but it was never properly synthesized. The fucking sand-superman story was a weird attempt at lowering his power level.

I'd love the Simonsons to get more involved in writing these days tbh. I can't think of anything either of them has written that was anything less than fun and decent. Hell, Louise Simonson's Steel is mildly underrated for how fun it was imo.

Jules was great. Loved the tribute to him years ago.

I'm always going to lean to post crisis. Superman being more a man is the best thing to happen to the character.

Weezy did some good work on the character. Would have liked to see what she might have done with some of the classic characters like Krypto or Supergirl. Those were some sad casualties in the war on the Silver Age overcorrection Byrne did.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Jules was great. Loved the tribute to him years ago.

I'm always going to lean to post crisis. Superman being more a man is the best thing to happen to the character.

Weezy did some good work on the character. Would have liked to see what she might have done with some of the classic characters like Krypto or Supergirl. Those were some sad casualties in the war on the Silver Age overcorrection Byrne did.

I think a lot of post crisis superman in the 80s was an interesting lesson on how it's important to figure out what to correct.

Anyways Louise Simonson's work on Steel propelled him to being a respectable and beloved character. Hell idr clearly but the Superboy book in the 90s is mildly underrated for how fun it could be with all the Jack Kirby tributes and whatnot. (And uh, the whole "Angelic Supergirl" thing from the late 90s/early 2000s was at least memorable for the batshit insanity that it was.)

I mean, they're proof that all you need is good storytelling and/or a sense of fun. Idk why we have so many coming of age YA novels from DC right now that are kinda shit when you could just get an actually good writer to do something like write a YA graphic novel about Donna Troy's search for an identity in the midst of everything that's happened to her. I'd read the shit outta that book.

I'm gonna say it here. I don't think we've ever gotten a Supergirl run that we could call "definitive", "memorable", or "remarkable". (Matrix Supergirl was a different thing. I'm talking classic Kara Zor-El) We've certainly gotten Steel, Superboy, and Superman runs that get remembered but I can't recall a Supergirl book or run that's been memorable.

anyways what other A and B list comic superheroes lack a notable run for people to talk about. I know Cloak and Dagger are just waiting for a really good writer to give them a definitive run or min series.

 

[GranDuke]

DC comics continuity pre-crisis was a nightmare with hundreds of contradictory stories. Coie was an overcorrection, but it was needed.

Yes, thats why they kept fucking with continuity till it became even bigger mess. Marvel's approach of "who cares, lets move on" has worked infinitely better than DC turning every bigger storyline into a story about continuity.

As for "slow decline", it doesn't mean that things just suddenly went to shit so obviously sales held up. It is like boiling the frog, people think that its fine till it is not and by that time it is too late to fix the situation. Thats where we have been for last 10-15 years.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

What do we think about Steve Orlando?

 

[Rupin]

What do we think about Steve Orlando?

He looks soy as fuck.

 

[Cactuar King]

He looks soy as fuck.

At least he doesn't have a wannabe lumberjack beard.

 

[Bungus Scrungus]

So, anything good come out with comics in the past 20 years? (Non tie in) Mini-series non withstanding cause I feel those tend to be pretty good most of the time. I'm talking main series comic book story lines. Stuff like Knightfall, The Original Clone Saga, that sort of thing. All I can think of is shit like Ultimatum, Heroes in Crisis, Final Crisis; shitty shit like that. Not even main line either. Even with something like Spider-Man, I can't find any actual substantial storylines aside from OG Clone Saga and the infamous 90's one. Well, maybe aside from Spider-Island, but that's also shit for the art alone which makes it unreadable.

 

[PrincessHomura]

So, anything good come out with comics in the past 20 years? (Non tie in) Mini-series non withstanding cause I feel those tend to be pretty good most of the time. I'm talking main series comic book story lines. Stuff like Knightfall, The Original Clone Saga, that sort of thing. All I can think of is shit like Ultimatum, Heroes in Crisis, Final Crisis; shitty shit like that. Not even main line either. Even with something like Spider-Man, I can't find any actual substantial storylines aside from OG Clone Saga and the infamous 90's one. Well, maybe aside from Spider-Island, but that's also shit for the art alone which makes it unreadable.

I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding your statement here, but are you calling the Clone Saga good?

 

[Bungus Scrungus]

I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding your statement here, but are you calling the Clone Saga good?

The original one. From the 1970's. Not the 90's one. That's a fucking shitshow and don't even get me started on what they did to Ben Reilly 20 or so years later by making him evil and then making a god awful 20 issue hellscape of a series about him "regaining his sanity" which is then essentially handwaved away come Spider-Verse 2 cause they realized no one liked that series. Sorry for the tangent, but seriously, that shit was absolutely fucking terrible.

 

[PrincessHomura]

The original one. From the 1970's. Not the 90's one. That's a fucking shitshow and don't even get me started on what they did to Ben Reilly 20 or so years later by making him evil and then making a god awful 20 issue hellscape of a series about him "regaining his sanity" which is then essentially handwaved away come Spider-Verse 2 cause they realized no one liked that series. Sorry for the tangent, but seriously, that shit was absolutely fucking terrible.

Ohh, yes, okay. Thank you. I was getting really scared there!

 

[Owlman]

Alan Moore, Frank Miller, and Walt Simonson were all playing with restoration themes in the early 80s and Moore, Busiek, Ross, and Miller spent much of the nineties toying with reconstruction. Morrison isn't new or original

Yeah but you know what Morrison is and those guys aren’t?

Good.

I’m kidding those guys are great

 

[Moguro Fukuzou]

Recently took a break from manga to check out western comics and currently making my way through the big DC heroes to see which ones I like, a lot of comic stuff still confuses me with all the timeline shenanigans. So far I've read (with my favorites in bold):
-Green Arrow: Year one and Kevin Smith run
-Superman: Birthright, Lois and Clark, Tomasi/Gleason (In progress - really enjoying superdad and the glimpses of Batdad).
-Animal Man: Morrison and Lemire run

Overall, the Morrison Animal Man run has stayed at the top of my favorites list due to how weird it was and how fucking bad I felt for Animal Man by the end. None of the ones I've read so far I've disliked which has surprised me, but I'll probably start to focus down to my favorites as I read more. I'm planning on reading the starting points (through googling) for the other big DC heroes, after that I'll probably look into team ups for those I end up liking and any Legacy characters that look interesting. Don't really have an interest in Marvel, largely been burned out from all the movies, so I'll probably just stick with DC for a while.

Doing this has certainly changed my opinion of comics quite a bit, starting out thinking they weren't really "for me" based of my previous attempts but I think that was more the stories weren't my cup of tea. I had to read stuff like Watchmen and Kingdom Come for a class, both I found I wasn't that interested in (though the art for the latter was truly impressive).

 

[JimiHendrix]

really enjoying superdad and the glimpses of Batdad

tomasi and gleason also did a Batman and Robin run for when you're finished with Superman.

 

[Hummingbird]

Is it ok to talk about superhero TV shows as well, because the upcoming Green Lantern show is going to be woke-shit even if it has my favorite GL, Guy Gardner, in it. What is it with woke writers thinking it's still the 1950s when it comes to race?

 

[Owlman]

Is it ok to talk about superhero TV shows as well, because the upcoming Green Lantern show is going to be woke-shit even if it has my favorite GL, Guy Gardner, in it. What is it with woke writers thinking it's still the 1950s when it comes to race?

>1950s
>gay and black characters on TV

I don’t think you thought this comparison through.