Sperg about comic books here

[MirrorNoir]

I recently read the original Longshot mini-series, by Ann Nocenti and Arthur Adams.

Some of the character work is decent. Longshot himself is an interesting character and his whole earnest, naïve, hopeful personality is refreshing, which seems to have been Nocenti's intent given her foreword in the TPB. I also never knew that Longshot's luck power requires his motives to be pure in order to work, which is an interesting mechanic for a super power. Spiral and Mojo were also an interesting pair, with their bickering and bantering being amusing. Unfortunately, that's all the praise I have for the six-issue series.

The structure, pacing, and general plotting are god awful, with Longshot typically just randomly stumbling from plot point to plot point with no rhyme or reason. It's so nonsensical that I was completely sure there'd be a twist wherein the story would reveal that the whole thing was a movie that Mojo was making. But, no, it was just a poorly thought-out and shoddily told story. I didn't even find the art particularly impressive, though I think it was the inker and colorist letting down Art Adams' art because the covers are pretty great.

Lastly, I have no idea how the Ricochet Rita = Spiral theory took root. Outside of the two both having some hint of romantic feelings for Longshot there's nothing that ties them together. Nocenti apparently never intended for it to be the case yet it eventually became canon.

Longshot's an early example of a movie pitch disguised/repurposed as a mini-series.

As for the Rita=Spiral shit, it all goes back to Fabian Niceza and his spotty reading of X-Men comics (he never read X-Men Annual #12 or Excalibur Mojo Mayhem which showed Rita as a prisoner), plus him trying to make sense out of one of the legit most disturbing scenes ever put to page in an X-Men comic: the nightmare sequence in X-Men #248 that served as Longshot's exit from the title.

(The sequence involved Longshot dancing with Dazzler, who is yanked out of his arms by Rogue, who then turns into Rita who then morphs into Spiral, who then rips out Longshot's spine on-panel in a gruesome sequence and then holds it in her hands as a trophy while accusing him of "not remembering who she is and why she hates him" and how he always hurts any woman who loves him yet never faces a single consequence due to "him always skating by on his looks and boyish charms"). Longshot then morphs into Mojo and shoots daggers into Spiral killing her, but not before she accuses Longshot of always murdering the women who he claims to love.

It should note that Fabian's explanation, which included a continuity patch that IIRC Fabian later admitted was inserted in by Harras at the last minute into the script when someone reminded Fabian that Rita DID appear after the original mini, was accepted by fans pretty much day one. Partly because it actually made sense and explained why Spiral had such a huge hate boner for Longshot better than any other explanation one could offer.

As for Nocenti, she later did an X-Men Legends two parter set between Longshot #1-6 and X-Men Annual #10 that while not contradicting X-Factor Annual #7, offered some additional Nocenti approved reasons for Spiral's hate boner for Longshot: Longshot gouging out one of Spiral's eyes with a blade to the face, the Nocenti reveal that in prior "films" made by Mojo involving Longshot (which included a WW1, cowboy film, and a Vampire film) Longshot ALWAYS played a villain protagonist who kills everyone close to his character at the end of the movie to save his own butt (which made Spiral distrust working with Longshot because of the way he will sell out others to save himself being his main trait in any production he was involved in), and in turn, Spiral being someone who disliked Longshot's general rebellious attitude and how, because of his luck powers, he could always get away with resisting Mojo and his manipulation/control over everyone and that Spiral feels, if she has to be Mojo's slave, then Longshot should have to suffer alongside her and not be a free person.

 

[jspit2.0]

I forget what Universe by X is.

Byrne is. . . I get why he's collected. Same with any of the big writers/artists from the '80s. Claremont, Simonsons, etc.

Sentry as a concept in the standard marvel U shoulda had a few more years of being in stories for characterization before civil war. or slide civil war down. Bendis just sucks because he kinda fucked it up repeatedly.

Like, there's an attempt at giving us some weight to the sentry's existing. I get that much. The problem comes when we just don't get the quiet moments or better character moments beyond "he's mentally ill" in 50 flavors.

A creator spotlight, like creator insert here.

The uncovered phenomenon. As if it isn't bad enough artists are rewarded for NOT drawing comics now you're highlighting it? Look, just stop publishing comics DC and Marvel. Just stop.

I mean, have some self respect. Make these people like Frank Cho or Amanda Conner draw some fucking comics!

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

I really wish that DC (mainly Johns) didn't fumble the New Golden Age.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

A creator spotlight, like creator insert here.

Yeah it could have maybe worked. But the Spotlight/Showcase presents stuff isn't sth they're willing to do anymore.

The uncovered phenomenon. As if it isn't bad enough artists are rewarded for NOT drawing comics now you're highlighting it? Look, just stop publishing comics DC and Marvel. Just stop.

I mean, have some self respect. Make these people like Frank Cho or Amanda Conner draw some fucking comics!

I just want to read good stories with character I like. They seem insistent on making yearly speculator booms in the worst way.

I really wish that DC (mainly Johns) didn't fumble the New Golden Age.

Johns is leaving. I'm guessing there's likely some sorta backdoor tension because his JSA plans seemed to have gotten fucked over. Considering that it's one of the trilogy of Johns pet project IPs he's worked on for DC (GL, Flash, JSA), I'm not surprised that it's sorta just fizzled out.

Shame because Johns and Nauck working together with a series that brought young justice and JSA and even a Legion connection sounded fun. Guess someone at DC was upset it didn't focus on ESG approved shilling.

 

[jspit2.0]

Yeah it could have maybe worked. But the Spotlight/Showcase presents stuff isn't sth they're willing to do anymore.

Well it does, but they make odd choices. John Byrne and Alan Moore, yeah sure. I get that. But then they'll do Carmine Infantino and, not dissing the guy, but I'd think you have a ways to go on your DC by before doing him?

I just want to read good stories with character I like. They seem insistent on making yearly speculator booms in the worst way.

Pretty much. It's not hard. Hire creatives, manage them, pay them. But they don't even do that well. It's like the worst mix of socialism and capitalism without any rhyme or reason

Johns is leaving. I'm guessing there's likely some sorta backdoor tension because his JSA plans seemed to have gotten fucked over. Considering that it's one of the trilogy of Johns pet project IPs he's worked on for DC (GL, Flash, JSA), I'm not surprised that it's sorta just fizzled out.

Shame because Johns and Nauck working together with a series that brought young justice and JSA and even a Legion connection sounded fun. Guess someone at DC was upset it didn't focus on ESG approved shilling.

Nothing he was doing was worth the shit Johns drained from the company creatively. After his ghost machine shit, I fully understand ditching him, they should have done it 6 years ago when it became apparent he wasn't interested in writing monthlies consistently.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Well it does, but they make odd choices. John Byrne and Alan Moore, yeah sure. I get that. But then they'll do Carmine Infantino and, not dissing the guy, but I'd think you have a ways to go on your DC by before doing him?

Infantino is still relatively important for DC though, so it's understandable. I do think they were maybe trying to add a major Silver Age one to the list?

IDK< he's the first name I think of when I think of DC's Silver Age art.

Pretty much. It's not hard. Hire creatives, manage them, pay them. But they don't even do that well. It's like the worst mix of socialism and capitalism without any rhyme or reason

It's hard when the retards at work are shitlib commies that are loaded with hubris and think they know what the consumer wants because they're "on the right side of history".

Nothing he was doing was worth the shit Johns drained from the company creatively. After his ghost machine shit, I fully understand ditching him, they should have done it 6 years ago when it became apparent he wasn't interested in writing monthlies consistently.

I admit he's not the best, but I'd at least rather have him than dozens of these shitlib idiots that burn everything down into a toxic mess.

 

[MirrorNoir]

I really wish that DC (mainly Johns) didn't fumble the New Golden Age.

It was doomed the second that A. Geoff didn't threaten to turn Jim Lee and his ilk's heads into a bloody smear if he wasn't allowed to make Alan Scott straight again and B. When Geoff derailed the whole thing himself by way of using it as an excuse plot to introduce a bunch of godless diversity sidekicks who he ramrodded into the Golden Age lore to "add diversity to the Golden Age of DC Super Heroes" and create a bunch of new royalty checks for when he inevitably stuck them into Stargirl's comic, which thankfully never happened because the show got canceled before they could show up.

As it stands, the only good thing that might come from it would be that the last couple of issues of the series (not demoted to being a mini-series) MIGHT, just MIGHT, erase the Bendis Legion and restore the OG Legion to DC lore.

 

[jspit2.0]

I admit he's not the best, but I'd at least rather have him than dozens of these shitlib idiots that burn everything down into a toxic mess.

Well, the trouble is he panders to them. Doomsday clock? whole fucking issue devoted to the gay dude getting weinsteined. Three Jokers? He has to go out of his way to make Barbara better than Jason because muh stronk wohman.

And as he does? He swallows Gary Frank for two plus years. Frank who could literally be drawing anything else. Fabok, same.

It was doomed the second that A. Geoff didn't threaten to turn Jim Lee and his ilk's heads into a bloody smear if he wasn't allowed to make Alan Scott straight again and B. When Geoff derailed the whole thing himself by way of using it as an excuse plot to introduce a bunch of godless diversity sidekicks who he ramrodded into the Golden Age lore to "add diversity to the Golden Age of DC Super Heroes" and create a bunch of new royalty checks for when he inevitably stuck them into Stargirl's comic, which thankfully never happened because the show got canceled before they could show up.

As it stands, the only good thing that might come from it would be that the last couple of issues of the series (not demoted to being a mini-series) MIGHT, just MIGHT, erase the Bendis Legion and restore the OG Legion to DC lore.

And that was the ONLY reason he even wrote it. Was because he wanted it in the movies. Because Geoff Johns stopped caring about comics back in 2005. His comics are pathetic, desperate cries for screen play pitches and they read as badly.

 

[Godchu]

You guys ever read City of Silence? It's such a weird-ass comic (and I think a satire?) but it holds a special place in my heart and I've never seen anyone really talk about it.

 

[Humble Architect]

Well, the trouble is he panders to them. Doomsday clock? whole fucking issue devoted to the gay dude getting weinsteined. Three Jokers? He has to go out of his way to make Barbara better than Jason because muh stronk wohman.

And as he does? He swallows Gary Frank for two plus years. Frank who could literally be drawing anything else. Fabok, same.



And that was the ONLY reason he even wrote it. Was because he wanted it in the movies. Because Geoff Johns stopped caring about comics back in 2005. His comics are pathetic, desperate cries for screen play pitches and they read as badly.

It’s amazing how much better Doomsday Clock becomes when you only read the parts pertaining to the Kent

I don’t care if it’s wank, the seethe generated was funny. It’s his multiverse, everyone else just lives in it.

 

[UnsufficentBoobage]

Was Death Metal Zombie Cop ever released? If yes, could someone throw a pirated copy my way?

 

[Alexander Thaut]

It’s amazing how much better Doomsday Clock becomes when you only read the parts pertaining to the Kent
View attachment 5954232
I don’t care if it’s wank, the seethe generated was funny. It’s his multiverse, everyone else just lives in it.

the first and greatest of them all.

doomsday clock is flawed, but I find it at least kinda fine compared to a lot of other things.

It does show Johns' limitations as a writer. A better writer could have really made that into something worthwhile.

Hell, the story bits in it could have fueled DC for years. The Superman Project, the effects of the JSA/Legion not being around, the comparisons between the Watchmen cast and the main DCU's atmosphere. Etc. It could have been really interesting to see, but it's wasted on Johns.

 

[jspit2.0]

It’s amazing how much better Doomsday Clock becomes when you only read the parts pertaining to the Kent
View attachment 5954232
I don’t care if it’s wank, the seethe generated was funny. It’s his multiverse, everyone else just lives in it.

Gary Frank was the next in the line from Curt Swan, John Byrne, Dan Jurgen's, Ed Mguiness as the definitive Superman artist. But he got saddled with Geoff Johns for good or ill.

So he's never head the timeless stories I would have liked to see him get.

the first and greatest of them all.

doomsday clock is flawed, but I find it at least kinda fine compared to a lot of other things.

Well, I can agree. It's better than current gate kept and pozzed DC.

It does show Johns' limitations as a writer. A better writer could have really made that into something worthwhile.

He didn't really do anything deserving of the characters. Rosarch? Nah. Missed the point and actually did him a disservice. Ozy? Ugh. Doc? Nope.

Watchman was the least interesting part in my opinion compared to what you raise.

Hell, the story bits in it could have fueled DC for years. The Superman Project, the effects of the JSA/Legion not being around, the comparisons between the Watchmen cast and the main DCU's atmosphere. Etc. It could have been really interesting to see, but it's wasted on Johns.

Seriously. This to me is the biggest stuff. JSA and Legion felt more like an after thought at times and allot of the concepts got the movie script treatment, but worse cause he didn't even write them.

Which you know WHY he does that? Because comics are so fucking backwards. You get a profit share in creating characters (Y'know, your job?) so the assholes that 'created' palette swap Bucky Barnes got a big fat royalty check off the movies. Dini and Timm? They created HQ for cartoons, so no royalties for having done their job, unlike comics.

That's why Geoff is still in comics, the ridiculous compensation for OG characters/stories.

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

Which you know WHY he does that? Because comics are so fucking backwards. You get a profit share in creating characters (Y'know, your job?) so the assholes that 'created' palette swap Bucky Barnes got a big fat royalty check off the movies. Dini and Timm? They created HQ for cartoons, so no royalties for having done their job, unlike comics.

DC has always paid better royalitys then Marvel has

 

[Humble Architect]

Gary Frank was the next in the line from Curt Swan, John Byrne, Dan Jurgen's, Ed Mguiness as the definitive Superman artist. But he got saddled with Geoff Johns for good or ill.

So he's never head the timeless stories I would have liked to see him get.

I liked the Brainiac arc that set in stone the “definitive” Brainiac and put the numerous iterations to bed. Superman’s failure and the consequences of it are easily the best depiction of his father’s death. Better than that nonsense in All-star and in MoS.

I also enjoy that Frank uses Chris Reeve as a base, it’s cool to imagine the greatest Superman actor playing the post-Crisis version of the character.

Secret Origin’s first half sucks but when he’s in Metropolis it becomes entertaining, it’s just the Donner movies if they were post-Crisis though, it’s a fun “What-if”

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Well, the trouble is he panders to them. Doomsday clock? whole fucking issue devoted to the gay dude getting weinsteined. Three Jokers? He has to go out of his way to make Barbara better than Jason because muh stronk wohman.

And as he does? He swallows Gary Frank for two plus years. Frank who could literally be drawing anything else. Fabok, same.

It also didn't make sense to me because DC wouldn't use a different artist for Batman Earth One, which was their highest selling book in that line, causing fans to wait six years for the third volume. This meant that the line, which was dying a slow death thanks to slow output and bad choices like Grant Morrison turning the Wonder Woman book into his views on bondage had nothing to keep it afloat. The first two Batman volumes sold well, so you'd think you'd want to get number three out quickly to keep the momentum going. Instead, they put Gary Frank on different projects and the whole thing died due to indifference from waiting so long.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Well, I can agree. It's better than current gate kept and pozzed DC.



He didn't really do anything deserving of the characters. Rosarch? Nah. Missed the point and actually did him a disservice. Ozy? Ugh. Doc? Nope.

Watchman was the least interesting part in my opinion compared to what you raise.



Seriously. This to me is the biggest stuff. JSA and Legion felt more like an after thought at times and allot of the concepts got the movie script treatment, but worse cause he didn't even write them.

Which you know WHY he does that? Because comics are so fucking backwards. You get a profit share in creating characters (Y'know, your job?) so the assholes that 'created' palette swap Bucky Barnes got a big fat royalty check off the movies. Dini and Timm? They created HQ for cartoons, so no royalties for having done their job, unlike comics.

That's why Geoff is still in comics, the ridiculous compensation for OG characters/stories.

yeah it's obvious that johns doesn't want to do comics for the sake of comics anymore.

didn't Bendis get into DC and the first fucking thing he pulled was Naomi? What the fuck happened to that character? He somehow got a TV show greenlit before she even had an arc.

The character seemed to be intentionally made to appeal to redditors.

• black woman
• affable personality that isn't aggressive or "strong"
• constantly barefoot
• variable power level and scaling
• multiversal shit
• almost a mary sue

the only other thing needed would have been her being a troon.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

Enjoying jld. Witching Hour was kino. Now Zatanna and Wondy turned into like.....death metal looking beings and they're fighting all the Fates. Shit is great. Art is fabulous. Circe is an amazing troll.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

The Asgard story arc that ran in New Mutants Special Edition and Uncanny annual #9 was terrific. The first half was definitely stronger, though, with the New Mutants just trying to survive in Asgard being a lot of fun. The ending, with Kitty basically telling Loki "stop fucking with us or we'll tell Thor", was anticlimactic but then again there's not much they can really do against him. The previous NM story arc, about them confronting the Shadow King possessed Karma, was also great.

Uncanny #200, 'The Trial of Magneto', was kinda stupid, though. I suspect Claremont is intelligent enough to know that there's no way to do that story well and have it end the way he wanted (Magneto going free), so I don't know why he bothered. Magneto's defense of his actions basically boils down to, "So I got a little over eager trying to protect mutants by constantly trying to wipe out humanity, can you blame me? I pinky promise I'll quit attempting to genocide humanity." Mix in some sovereign citizen bullshit about how the laws of countries don't apply to him because he's a super powerful mutant and how America & Russia owning nukes is an affront to his universal rights... or some dumb shit. Then the von Strucker twins attack and, of course, Magneto gets to be the hero and show everyone what a nice guy he really is. Finally, the trial never really gets an actual conclusion, one of the judges that Magneto saves basically just goes, "yeah, whatever."

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

What exactly was Johns trying to set up with having a grown up Kyle Knight on the future JSA?

Was this meant to have him getting powers as a kid and having him put on the Young Justice Society or something. Which would probally the best way to reintroduce Jack Knight as a character for newer readers while keeping him retired from heroics.