Sperg about comic books here

[jspit2.0]

I enjoyed it. Dragged a bit in some parts, and I was annoyed by the "Abul Rahim (or however its spelled) is really Doctor Doom!" revelation. It was Marvel's attempt to CRISIS their 616 and Ultimate universes together. It also tied up the mystery of the Beyonders that have been lingering since they were mentioned alllllll the way back in the 80s and tied them into the Beyonder. They distilled his convoluted backstory down to, "oh, he's basically a newborn version of the Beyonder aliens, who are powerful enough to murder the Living Tribunal."

Well, if you bought hundreds of comics for over three years culminating in an ending that was essentially "...and it all may as well never have happened" and left satisfied then props.

Me I was legitimately horrified and in awe at the fucking balls on Hickman and Marvel to put out something so utterly vacuous and predatory.

Look who is trying to be like Greta Thunberg.

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Superman should be public fucking domain.

yeah they yanked stuff from Bendis, gave it to the SJWs, and turned little Jon Kent into a mary sue LGBT teen activist.

Whispering, 'Bendis is an SJW."

I have to disagree on Bendis. He does not try to write comics.

That's generous. I don't think he can. Bendis has never competently written a comic. His books are filled with word vomit, tics, and decompressed riffs on existing stories.

He exists in the bottom of comic book writers with Tom King. The only reason people think highly of him is he had insane talent gifted to him from the start of his career at Marvel. Take that away and his stuff is shit.

He is trying to write lazy TV series. Long monologues, excessive speech bubbles, frequent shot-reverse shot, repetitive panels, and his other favorite techniques scream failed TV writer. Bendis does not seem to care all that much about what he writes either, unless it's his pet character like Kitty Pryde or Luke Cage. With other characters he throws past characterization, storylines, and previous creative teams' interesting plot hooks out of the window. He focuses on his own dumb ideas instead, and well established characters are twisted to fit four archetypes Bendis can write. It would not be bad to do it if the stories were actually good, but I think that Bendis did not write anything decent in over 15 years.

He's had three decent story arcs in his fifteen or so years at Marvel. And those were all good, original ideas; horribly scripted.

Other matter is that Bendis is a precursor of problems you complain about. Many of his stories are his own wish fulfillment, he is obsessed with spawning diverse OCs even if they are redundant, and he likes to cram in superficial references to his own heritage and identity much like today's trans writers like to do.

Tell me about it. His big take away on Superman? Jews. Jews created him so he da Jew.

Jeph Loeb, also a Jew, was probably vomiting blood after reading this.

 

[Water-T]

Well, if you bought hundreds of comics for over three years culminating in an ending that was essentially "...and it all may as well never have happened" and left satisfied then props.

I looked at it as Marvel doing their own Crisis: merging several realities and hitting the "reset button". I haven't really bought many comic in the mid 2010s, so I was not as invested as you were

 

[Cyber Bowling]

I have to disagree on Bendis. He does not try to write comics. He is trying to write lazy TV series. Long monologues, excessive speech bubbles, frequent shot-reverse shot, repetitive panels, and his other favorite techniques scream failed TV writer. Bendis does not seem to care all that much about what he writes either, unless it's his pet character like Kitty Pryde or Luke Cage. With other characters he throws past characterization, storylines, and previous creative teams' interesting plot hooks out of the window. He focuses on his own dumb ideas instead, and well established characters are twisted to fit four archetypes Bendis can write. It would not be bad to do it if the stories were actually good, but I think that Bendis did not write anything decent in over 15 years.

Other matter is that Bendis is a precursor of problems you complain about. Many of his stories are his own wish fulfillment, he is obsessed with spawning diverse OCs even if they are redundant, and he likes to cram in superficial references to his own heritage and identity much like today's trans writers like to do. Again, last would not be bad at all if it was used well in service of stories, but it isn't. He, like Ellis, is an originator of many trends that got us to where we are today. Cohort who came after them merely iterated on these trends.

Well, yeah, that's where the bad writer stuff comes in, but I'd still say he at least tries versus someone like Taylor, who isn't even hiding the fact that they just wanted a mouthpiece. I wasn't trying to argue that Bendis was good, just that, despite how bad he is, Taylor actually manages to be worse. I'd still at least give Bendis the "You tried" participation ribbon though.

The thing with bad OCs is that they're less damaging than making bad changes to existing characters. To continue the Bendis bashing for a moment, him trying to write out then subsequently age up Superboy was bad because it damaged the existing character in a way that'd require a big retcon to fix. Him adding his pet Naomi into everything he writes, while still bad, is at least easier to fix because you can let the character fade into obscurity and nobody will even remember they existed. Or I guess if you're Marvel, toss them onto the Champions, which is arguably the same thing as letting them fade into obscurity.

If Taylor added what he thought was a super awesome and cool bi character to his Superboy comics, it would suck, sure, but when a future writer takes over, they can just shove that character into the background. By making Jon bi, you're fundamentally changing the character, and while it is possible to reverse, it's hard to do well. To circle back to Bendis sucking as a writer, I think it's why DC made at least some attempt to reign Bendis in. I'm fairly confident they were the ones who stopped him from splitting up Clark and Lois. The solution would naturally be the next writer just has them get back together, but it's still a pretty big stain against the character.

Superman is actually the perfect example of why it sucks when an existing character is so radically changed. Writers kept trying to make new 52 Superman into someone completely different. And at least then, they had the excuse of the new 52 being, well, new. But it got so bad they had to cosmicly erase that character and have the "real" Superman secretly be there this entire time, then when that still proved tricky to make work, they had to retcon it even further to make said Superman never have existed at all.

 

[DaBigBopper]

I can't really comment on DC. I never really liked Superman, he always too much of a power fantasy for me. Wonder Woman is literally some guys fetish gone wild, so I find that shit hilarious for pushing her as a female icon when a guy who was screwing undergrads made her. DC books were never for me, I liked Spider-Man, FF, and TinTin. Manga is my cheap entertainment now.

I guess I'll throw my opinion out there. Bendis is bad, he was never good, but he did stop the old narration that was present throughout the 80's and 90's. He really didn't give a shit about continuity in the worst way, he wouldn't just disregard, he'd warp it and force other writers to deal with it due to success on Daredevil and Ultimate Spider-Man. Ultimate Spider-Man is terrible, the Ditko stuff is honestly a lot less dated somehow. Peter was a stressed-out asshole who could've become a monster if not for a guilty conscience and a good family. Bendis made him Jewish, Bendis sees every hero as Jewish. He needs a Jew or otherwise he can't use the most basic Yiddish. Oh yeah, Bendis is a college professor if I remember right, really shows you the value of a college degree nowadays.

Tom Taylor just some asshole who wrote a serviceable tie-in comic and somehow is treated like he wrote something great. He's mediocre and like Bendis really can't write more than a few archetypes. His Wolverine with X-23/ Laura ignored any character growth. She's a character I like due to being a scantly clad assassin chick, but her character arc always seemed to logically go away from the X-Men. She was a child soldier, she hung out with the FF, and like every bitch worth anything wanted to fuck Spider-Man. Tom Taylor made her into a superficial city girl who quipped, it honestly would have been good if the angle was she was either pretending to be fine after her father figure died and she had friends die during the AA bs or have one of the X-Men telepaths lock away the bad memories. He wanted Wolverine with tits so he made Wolverine with tits and a female character to mentor. Bendis for all his faults did try to write Laura as a little damaged and awkward, still bad, but he understood why fans liked her.

Comics kinda fucked up when they catered to the Star Trek audience, the convention weirdo's. DS9 fans are okay, I never understood why people liked Star Trek it seemed like the most pompous moralizing lectures. The Twilight Zone was better because the writing and acting could overcome the cringe nature of the moral, but Star Trek is that weird atheist BS that loves to huff it's own farts.

 

[Water-T]

I think that's the issue most people have with these big character changes. Iceman is probably the go to example of horrible "he caught the gay" plotlines. And, it wasn't even the "wrong" people complaining, I saw a lot of SJW leaning places rightly criticizing how poorly it was written, to the point where there's even plausible plot theories that Jean Gray did some mind control nonsense. People aren't frustrated with changes because they hate the gays or whatever, they're frustrated because it always signals lazy writing and a complete lack of character development. It can't even be saved by a good writer later inheriting the character, because unless they do a massive retcon, the bad writer already ruined the big first relationship, and it becomes very hard to write a breakup or kill the character because then you get people up in arms about how no gay characters can be happy.

CO-SIGNED ONE HUNDRED PERCENT.

I'm one of those lefty fags that thought retconning Bobby as queer was retarded as fuck. He had way too many relationships with women where he was too extremely invested emotionally that it was obvious he really was into them and not in a "I'm using her as a beard" kind of way. He even willingly fucked Mystique (in her usual form, not disguised as a dude), FFS. It would be easy for any future writer to say, "Jean wanted to be a fag hag so badly, she subconsciously made Bobby hungry for cock". We've already seen that Past Jean was too immature to handle the sudden increase in her powers and having access to her telepathic powers much sooner than resulted from being brought from her past to the present, going as far as digging into other people's heads because she felt like it. Too bad no writer would have the balls to do that, knowing that it'll rain the Holy Hell of NPC Twitter on their ass.

At least if they were going to turn one of the OG X-men gay, it should have been Beast. He only really had one long term relationship with Trish Tilby, and it seemed more like a friendship/business connection than anything; not to mention that Morrison toyed with having him come out only to walk it back as "a joke". Bobby was too much of a pussy hound to believe that he was secretly craving dick for decades. Shit, during the mid 2000s X-Men run when Northstar joined, he openly lusted for Bobby, but Bobby was like, "Nah, I'd much rather go balls deep on the single mom who just started as the new nurse at Xavier's school". Why would Bobby still keep up the charade then, seeing a hot gay dude throwing himself at him, and how everyone else at the school fully accepted a homo like Jean Paul? MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE. TO STAY IN THE CLOSET IN THAT SITUATION.

Ok, faggot rant over. Carry on, you degenerate heteros.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

CO-SIGNED ONE HUNDRED PERCENT.

I'm one of those lefty fags that thought retconning Bobby as queer was exceptional as fuck. He had way too many relationships with women where he was too extremely invested emotionally that it was obvious he really was into them and not in a "I'm using her as a beard" kind of way. He even willingly fucked Mystique (in her usual form, not disguised as a dude), FFS. It would be easy for any future writer to say, "Jean wanted to be a fag hag so badly, she subconsciously made Bobby hungry for cock". We've already seen that Past Jean was too immature to handle the sudden increase in her powers and having access to her telepathic powers much sooner than resulted from being brought from her past to the present, going as far as digging into other people's heads because she felt like it. Too bad no writer would have the balls to do that, knowing that it'll rain the Holy Hell of NPC Twitter on their ass.

At least if they were going to turn one of the OG X-men gay, it should have been Beast. He only really had one long term relationship with Trish Tilby, and it seemed more like a friendship/business connection than anything; not to mention that Morrison toyed with having him come out only to walk it back as "a joke". Bobby was too much of a pussy hound to believe that he was secretly craving dick for decades. Shit, during the mid 2000s X-Men run when Northstar joined, he openly lusted for Bobby, but Bobby was like, "Nah, I'd much rather go balls deep on the single mom who just started as the new nurse at Xavier's school". Why would Bobby still keep up the charade then, seeing a hot gay dude throwing himself at him, and how everyone else at the school fully accepted a homo like Jean Paul? MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE. TO STAY IN THE CLOSET IN THAT SITUATION.

Ok, faggot rant over. Carry on, you degenerate heteros.

Beast being gay would put the Original "Buddy-Cop" Superhero duo of Beast/Wonder Man in a weird position because you know they wouldn't be able to write it properly.

I think if they just made a major X-Man gay, Beast wouldn't have been the worst idea. Part of me really wonders how turning Angel or Sunfire gay.

But, you know what's weird as shit is that for all the BS that happens with this LGBT shit, they still haven't attempted to put Northstar in a major starring role in the past decade. Like sure they made Iceman gay, but didn't do anything with Northstar?


RE Bandis

He got away with a lot and I consider him barely a notch above Tom King just because Bendis gives a shit on some level. He 100% shouldn't be handling major established characters though. I think a LOSH Bendis run on a small scale could have been fun. Just remove the ones with major established traits and voila he can go have some stupid stuff.

Hell, wasn't the 80s/90s LOSH responsible for one of the more notable transgender romances or sth with Colossal Boy and that side character?

 

[Newman's Lovechild]

Well, if you bought hundreds of comics for over three years... and left satisfied then props.

FTFY

My time in comics was shorter and less involved than some of the 'real' fans, so I feel like I'm stumbling in the dark, not knowing details of the continuity in-universe or IRL, not knowing which obscure runs were great and worth reading, or not knowing if there's an artist I never heard of whose style would poke me in the pleasure centers.

But then I realise I ended up with more disposable income and fewer disposable pamphlets, so I feel better.

Sorry.

Not sorry

 

[Water-T]

But, you know what's weird as shit is that for all the BS that happens with this LGBT shit, they still haven't attempted to put Northstar in a major starring role in the past decade. Like sure they made Iceman gay, but didn't do anything with Northstar?

He's been given some love here and there. Ten years ago, his marriage to Kyle got put on the front cover of X-Men, he taught French and flying at Xavier's, and he led the newest X-Factor team, which investigates mutant deaths so they can be solved and confirmed before putting them in the Resurrection Protocols queue.

Hell, wasn't the 80s/90s LOSH responsible for one of the more notable transgender romances or sth with Colossal Boy and that side character?

In the 5 Years Later run, it was revealed that Jan Arrah/Element Lad's long time girlfriend Shvaughn Erin was born SEAN Erin. He had a crush on Jan and thought that he wouldn't accept him as a man, so he took a drug called Pro-Fem which turned him biological female. However, due to Earth being under embargo under the Dominators, Erin's supply got cut off and she reverted back to he. Jan told them that he loved him/her despite whatever gender they are, which confirmed that Jan was pansexual. It was also hinted that Ayla /Lightning Lass and Salu/Shrinking Violet were now a couple - both women formerly dating men until they had messy break-ups with Timber Wolf and Duplicate Boy, respectively

As for Colossal Boy: Colossal Boy/Gim Allon originally thought he was dating Shrinking Violet, but it turns out the real one was kidnapped by a separatist movement from her planet that wanted to torture and brainwash her. The one that Gim was dating was really a shape-shifting actress named Yera from the same race as Chameleon Boy, hired by the separatists under the lie that Salu was just undercover and required Yera to take her place as part of the OP. Eventually some LOSH members suspect something is up and expose the charade, saving the real Violet. Despite this, Gim realized he was in love with Yera and married her. She later joined the LOSH as Chameleon Girl after they eliminated their "No Members Can Have The Same Powerset" Rule (which was dumb since Superboy, Supergirl, Mon-El, and Ultra Boy all have practically the same powers)

Ok, LOSH sperg over.

PS - Bendis can suck Blok's stony testicles.

 

[Jetpack Himmler]

In the 5 Years Later run, it was revealed that Jan Arrah/Element Lad's long time girlfriend Shvaughn Erin was born SEAN Erin. He had a crush on Jan and thought that he wouldn't accept him as a man, so he took a drug called Pro-Fem which turned him biological female. However, due to Earth being under embargo under the Dominators, Erin's supply got cut off and she reverted back to he. Jan told them that he loved him/her despite whatever gender they are, which confirmed that Jan was pansexual. It was also hinted that Ayla /Lightning Lass and Salu/Shrinking Violet were now a couple - both women formerly dating men until they had messy break-ups with Timber Wolf and Duplicate Boy, respectively

And it made sense in the context of Jan's character. Trommite culture revolved their innate ability of transmutation so Jan would probably view Shvaughn/Sean's situation as changing from one element to the other while the soul remains unchanged. Indeed, Trommite culture has remained more or less consistent throughout the various reboots.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

He's been given some love here and there. Ten years ago, his marriage to Kyle got put on the front cover of X-Men, he taught French and flying at Xavier's, and he led the newest X-Factor team, which investigates mutant deaths so they can be solved and confirmed before putting them in the Resurrection Protocols queue.


In the 5 Years Later run, it was revealed that Jan Arrah/Element Lad's long time girlfriend Shvaughn Erin was born SEAN Erin. He had a crush on Jan and thought that he wouldn't accept him as a man, so he took a drug called Pro-Fem which turned him biological female. However, due to Earth being under embargo under the Dominators, Erin's supply got cut off and she reverted back to he. Jan told them that he loved him/her despite whatever gender they are, which confirmed that Jan was pansexual. It was also hinted that Ayla /Lightning Lass and Salu/Shrinking Violet were now a couple - both women formerly dating men until they had messy break-ups with Timber Wolf and Duplicate Boy, respectively

As for Colossal Boy: Colossal Boy/Gim Allon originally thought he was dating Shrinking Violet, but it turns out the real one was kidnapped by a separatist movement from her planet that wanted to torture and brainwash her. The one that Gim was dating was really a shape-shifting actress named Yera from the same race as Chameleon Boy, hired by the separatists under the lie that Salu was just undercover and required Yera to take her place as part of the OP. Eventually some LOSH members suspect something is up and expose the charade, saving the real Violet. Despite this, Gim realized he was in love with Yera and married her. She later joined the LOSH as Chameleon Girl after they eliminated their "No Members Can Have The Same Powerset" Rule (which was dumb since Superboy, Supergirl, Mon-El, and Ultra Boy all have practically the same powers)

Ok, LOSH sperg over.

PS - Bendis can suck Blok's stony testicles.

wait you mean they already had interesting material to cover and didn't use it?

sounds lame as fuck.

And it made sense in the context of Jan's character. Trommite culture revolved their innate ability of transmutation so Jan would probably view Shvaughn/Sean's situation as changing from one element to the other while the soul remains unchanged. Indeed, Trommite culture has remained more or less consistent throughout the various reboots.

it's interesting since Colossal Boy is one of the more visually memorable LOSH members.

So, the '80s/90s LOSH did a better job of telling some lgbt stories, kek.


honestly i dunno why the OG Crisis removed the JSA and Zero Hour removed the original LOSH. It just seems weird.

 

[DaBigBopper]

Taylor is this bad. Look at the bullets in panel one. HAHAHAHA! What the fuck. How do you do such a blatant Kyle Rittenhouse dig? Even my lefty family is aware that he killed a pedo, a wifebeater, and disarmed a burglar. I don't want to start a conversation about school shooters, but why the hell don't they ever have some kids with powers do it? I know guns bad, but the artists can barely draw a gun or bullets right.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

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Taylor is this bad. Look at the bullets in panel one. HAHAHAHA! What the fuck. How do you do such a blatant Kyle Rittenhouse dig? Even my lefty family is aware that he killed a pedo, a wifebeater, and disarmed a burglar. I don't want to start a conversation about school shooters, but why the hell don't they ever have some kids with powers do it? I know guns bad, but the artists can barely draw a gun or bullets right.

they used to have a whole thing in DC with young "powered" individuals being threats to society iirc and did a whole background thing on this kinda shit.

my question here is why not just one Anarky or any one of the dozens of "activist" types within DC. Sure Anarky may be the worst example, but even Marvel's used Hydra and other organizations as allegories for real world "bad" things.

Hell they did something in one of the Cap books or Young Heroes books in marvel where they had a bunch of roller skating domestic terrorists that were fucking shit up in like 2017-19 somewhere, iirc.

 

[The handsome tard]

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Taylor is this bad. Look at the bullets in panel one. HAHAHAHA! What the fuck. How do you do such a blatant Kyle Rittenhouse dig? Even my lefty family is aware that he killed a pedo, a wifebeater, and disarmed a burglar. I don't want to start a conversation about school shooters, but why the hell don't they ever have some kids with powers do it? I know guns bad, but the artists can barely draw a gun or bullets right.

You know, I look at this and say...

"This is WHY, DC...manga and anime are winning. They arent defaming pedo murderers."

 

[JimiHendrix]

i know i mostly defended tim coming out as bisexual. but if they were also going to have Jon come out as the same, then they shouldn't have done it with Tim.

they also shouldn't have done it with jon, at all, because jon should still be fucking 13 years old.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

i know i mostly defended tim coming out as bisexual. but if they were also going to have Jon come out as the same, then they shouldn't have done it with Tim.

they also shouldn't have done it with jon, at all, because jon should still be fucking 13 years old.

we also can't blame this on Superboy Prime punching reality.

 

[Registration]

I never liked jon so I don't care about it anyways, but he being a fag is more ok than Tim being a fag out of nowhere.

 

[Water-T]

honestly i dunno why the OG Crisis removed the JSA and Zero Hour removed the original LOSH. It just seems weird.

The OG JSA didn't get removed by Crisis: they ended up willingly going into a Hell dimension to endlessly fight demons in order to prevent Ragnorok. Crisis did "remove" some members, but it was the superfluous ones like Earth-2 Green Arrow and Aquaman, who were almost 1:1 counterparts to their Earth-1 versions. The Golden Age Flash and GL stuck around since they had different identities and costumes than their Silver Age counterparts. Power Girl was different enough from Supergirl that she stuck around, but since the Earth 2 Supes bailed with Superbrat Prime and Lex Luthor of Earth 3, she had to be retconned as an Atlantean instead of a Kryptonian (which got un-retconned after Infinite Crisis, LOLOL).

Zero Hour retconned the LOSH so that the everything from the Silver Age up to the SW6 Batch did not happen: it reset everything from scratch, since Crisis muddied up everything by erasing Kara and changing it so that Superboy was NOT the focal point for the team forming. Eventually, Infinite Crisis re-retconned it so that the OG team, the Archie Legion, and the Threeboot group all existed.

Infinite Crisis was an un-reset button for the OG Crisis reset button.

 

[40 Year Old Boomer]

The OG JSA didn't get removed by Crisis: they ended up willingly going into a Hell dimension to endlessly fight demons in order to prevent Ragnorok. Crisis did "remove" some members, but it was the superfluous ones like Earth-2 Green Arrow and Aquaman, who were almost 1:1 counterparts to their Earth-1 versions. The Golden Age Flash and GL stuck around since they had different identities and costumes than their Silver Age counterparts. Power Girl was different enough from Supergirl that she stuck around, but since the Earth 2 Supes bailed with Superbrat Prime and Lex Luthor of Earth 3, she had to be retconned as an Atlantean instead of a Kryptonian (which got un-retconned after Infinite Crisis, LOLOL).

Zero Hour retconned the LOSH so that the everything from the Silver Age up to the SW6 Batch did not happen: it reset everything from scratch, since Crisis muddied up everything by erasing Kara and changing it so that Superboy was NOT the focal point for the team forming. Eventually, Infinite Crisis re-retconned it so that the OG team, the Archie Legion, and the Threeboot group all existed.

Infinite Crisis was an un-reset button for the OG Crisis reset button.

This is exactly why I could never get into DC as much as Marvel. It's such a goddamn mess and so many continuity resets.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

The OG JSA didn't get removed by Crisis: they ended up willingly going into a Hell dimension to endlessly fight demons in order to prevent Ragnorok. Crisis did "remove" some members, but it was the superfluous ones like Earth-2 Green Arrow and Aquaman, who were almost 1:1 counterparts to their Earth-1 versions. The Golden Age Flash and GL stuck around since they had different identities and costumes than their Silver Age counterparts. Power Girl was different enough from Supergirl that she stuck around, but since the Earth 2 Supes bailed with Superbrat Prime and Lex Luthor of Earth 3, she had to be retconned as an Atlantean instead of a Kryptonian (which got un-retconned after Infinite Crisis, LOLOL).

I vaguely remember the hell dimension thing. But man it feels weird to just remove the JSA for almost a decade. . .

Post-Crisis Power Girl was a fucking mess with her origin. The JLI/JLE comics seemed to be trying to address that constantly.

Zero Hour retconned the LOSH so that the everything from the Silver Age up to the SW6 Batch did not happen: it reset everything from scratch, since Crisis muddied up everything by erasing Kara and changing it so that Superboy was NOT the focal point for the team forming. Eventually, Infinite Crisis re-retconned it so that the OG team, the Archie Legion, and the Threeboot group all existed.

Infinite Crisis was an un-reset button for the OG Crisis reset button.

Infinite Crisis was a mess and they didn't capitalize on any of the potential they had with a reborn multiverse. The only good thing was the original "52" series.
I think the only thing they really did with the multiverse, aside from bullshit Countdown/Final Crisis stuff, was use the Tangent universe? And maybe the archie stuff?

Yeah I vaguely recall 90s LOSH being around Valor? Some attempt at having Mon-El be a thing again? All I remember about him is that he got instantly taken over in the '90s Eclipso event. You know, the one where they started making Eclipso into a top tier villain instead of some B list '60s villainous protagonist.

Anyways that series killed the Will Payton Starman and kinda had a whole spinoff that led to the death of a ton of C listers like Commander Steel, the Black Dr. Midnite, and the female Wildcat.

This is exactly why I could never get into DC as much as Marvel. It's such a goddamn mess and so many continuity resets.

Everything was fine until 2011, when the new 52 just pissed everyone off.

 

[Water-T]

Yeah I vaguely recall 90s LOSH being around Valor? Some attempt at having Mon-El be a thing again? All I remember about him is that he got instantly taken over in the '90s Eclipso event. You know, the one where they started making Eclipso into a top tier villain instead of some B list '60s villainous protagonist.

Anyways that series killed the Will Payton Starman and kinda had a whole spinoff that led to the death of a ton of C listers like Commander Steel, the Black Dr. Midnite, and the female Wildcat.

Yeah - Valor/Mon-EL/Lar Gand and Laurel Gand (later known as Andromeda) because the post-Crisis stand-ins for Kal-El and Kara.

I really miss the post Crisis Starman, as well as Yolanda and Beth. He and the others you mentioned got merked by Eclipso during the "EVIL WITHIN" crossover event.

The new Stargirl TV show uses Yolanda and Beth as part of the "new JSA", so I get my Infinity Inc fix that way. They've also introduced Jade and Hourman II (Rick, not the android), and i imagine Obsidian will be showing up next.