Sperg about comic books here

[MirrorNoir]

I'm going to be culling most of the X-Books after Inferno. Marauders is shit and squandered it's potential, X-Force I only read for Quentin and cringing over Beast's character assassination, Excalibur is even worse than Marauders, X-Men has ZERO happening in it, SWORD is super hard to read since it's Ewing keeps jerking off Abigail Brande, and New Mutants has even less going on in it. And the less said about Way of X and X-Corps the better

The only actual X-Men book I actually enjoyed was Hellions and that's now done. None of the new X-Books look good/look god-awful.

 

[DaBigBopper]

Hell, didn't Perez and Wolfman create/design Nightwing? that's also another big one.

yeah Wondy's been kinda weird because the character never had a solid run until Perez. I kinda wish they gave her to good creators more often. Nowadays we have some weird gay romance between Wondy and some other kryptonian? Like nigga what happened to steve trevor?

I feel like with Wonder Woman you'd need a writer who wouldn't butcher the Greek Gods. She's popular due to little boys jerking off to her in bondage and her entire thing is literally some guys fetish for dykes. She's not popular beyond the Linda Carter TV show, Perez's run was crap, the whole thing about the Amazon's being abused women reincarnated always felt stupid. They're the daughters of Ares in their mythical origins. The entire thing with Wondy being women's love is stupid and I know more feminists who actually like reading into Greek myths than who like Wonder Woman. Shit like Ares being hated in the Illiad due to him being a threat to supplant Zeus and that Persephone literally empowering herself and emanipated herself from her mother.

Give actually good character design, make it so the Amazon's are separate from the rest of humanity for some reason, either guarding a hellpit like the cartoon or something.

 

[40 Year Old Boomer]

I'm going to be culling most of the X-Books after Inferno. Marauders is shit and squandered it's potential, X-Force I only read for Quentin and cringing over Beast's character assassination, Excalibur is even worse than Marauders, X-Men has ZERO happening in it, SWORD is super hard to read since it's Ewing keeps jerking off Abigail Brande, and New Mutants has even less going on in it. And the less said about Way of X and X-Corps the better

The only actual X-Men book I actually enjoyed was Hellions and that's now done. None of the new X-Books look good/look god-awful.

At least New Mutants had the art going for it. But ending Hellions was a mistake. It's been the best X-book hands down since Krakoa started.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

I feel like with Wonder Woman you'd need a writer who wouldn't butcher the Greek Gods. She's popular due to little boys jerking off to her in bondage and her entire thing is literally some guys fetish for dykes. She's not popular beyond the Linda Carter TV show, Perez's run was crap, the whole thing about the Amazon's being abused women reincarnated always felt stupid. They're the daughters of Ares in their mythical origins. The entire thing with Wondy being women's love is stupid and I know more feminists who actually like reading into Greek myths than who like Wonder Woman. Shit like Ares being hated in the Illiad due to him being a threat to supplant Zeus and that Persephone literally empowering herself and emanipated herself from her mother.

Give actually good character design, make it so the Amazon's are separate from the rest of humanity for some reason, either guarding a hellpit like the cartoon or something.

it's easier to turn them all into lesbians and children of zeus or sth.

you know how lazy modern women writers get with this shit.

 

[DaBigBopper]

it's easier to turn them all into lesbians and children of zeus or sth.

you know how lazy modern women writers get with this shit.

I mean the easy thing would be Ares adopting random children as he engages in wars. Don't make women flawless, Hera is a cunt that is her character in myth. Yeah, Zeus cheats on her, but Hera is a petty cunt who drives Heracles insane and makes him kill his wife and children. Contrast her with Persephone, Hera married for power and it made her unhappy, Persephone married for. depending on the variation of the myth, freedom or love and has a star crossed lovers aspect in her 'rape'. Athena is a cunt. The only few Olympians who aren't cunt are Hestia, Persephone, Nyx, and some other minor gods.

 

[GranDuke]

I don't think that any WW run has been faithful to Greek myths. It sure is challenging when you have to do it in shared universe, but I think that Thor has fared much better than WW in this.

 

[jspit2.0]

I'm going to be culling most of the X-Books after Inferno. Marauders is shit and squandered it's potential, X-Force I only read for Quentin and cringing over Beast's character assassination, Excalibur is even worse than Marauders, X-Men has ZERO happening in it, SWORD is super hard to read since it's Ewing keeps jerking off Abigail Brande, and New Mutants has even less going on in it. And the less said about Way of X and X-Corps the better

The only actual X-Men book I actually enjoyed was Hellions and that's now done. None of the new X-Books look good/look god-awful.

That you actually bought that shit this long is kindof amazing...

I don't think that any WW run has been faithful to Greek myths. It sure is challenging when you have to do it in shared universe, but I think that Thor has fared much better than WW in this.

Define 'faithful' for me? Because different runs have done different things. Same with Thor as Wonder Woman though. I could nit pick Thor to fucking hell; with both Thor and Wondy, the idea isn't just Greek/Norse mythos and going in expecting that is to fundamentally misunderstand the concept.

 

[DaBigBopper]

I don't think that any WW run has been faithful to Greek myths. It sure is challenging when you have to do it in shared universe, but I think that Thor has fared much better than WW in this.

Thor played enough lip service to the myths with JMS's run, but they never portray Laufey's parentage correctly or that Loki is more of Odin's war buddy. Norse Myth is weird in Marvel because some people are diehard for Kirby and want to include all the autism from Eternals.

 

[kaien]

The only actual X-Men book I actually enjoyed was Hellions and that's now done.

The last issue legit made me mad. I'm like, this is a fucking great story, and this the the book they're throwing on the scrap heap? Maybe Zeb Wells just felt like he'd run his course with the concept, I dunno.

Looking forward to the last issue of Inferno feels the same way, because it's been really fucking good, and I know that it's the last we're going to get of what it's doing.

Such is life. The X-Men books have been disappointing me since I was 13 years old saying, "Wait, where the fuck did Jim Lee go?" I can deal with it.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

didn't marvel stop hickman from progressing his story he had in mind because of the talentless hacks that whined and wanted the ethnostate and orgies to be the status quo?

 

[Jetpack Himmler]

@MirrorNoir

The 1994 Reboot was fucked the second the writers completely and maliciously, fucked up Wildfire's Reboot debut because said writers were part of the camp that DESPISED fans for liking Wildfire and spending five years constantly asking when him and Dawnstar and the other "Legion Members who don't count because they weren't part of the Adventure Comics era team". DnA doubled down on what they did to Drake and further fucked it up by replacing Dawnstar with the abortion that was Shikari, further character assassinating Saturn Girl (and Element Lad), completely shitting on and then killing off Monstress, and taking the 90s era "Garth as a cuck" meme to it's ultimate ending by having him pointlessly sacrifice his life.

Even with their later fan pandering introduction of Dream Girl and Timber Wolf onto the roster, the book never recovered even after they churned out Legion World, which was the point in which you (if you want to be generous) can say the DnA Legion run actually got good and readable. Letting Waid reboot shit was a mercy killing at that point, even with the disaster that was the Waid run ultimately forcing DC to go "Fuck it" and let Meltzer bring back the OG Classic Legion and basically pretend V4/TMK run never happened with them.

As for the SW6 Legion; the first arc is great but everything afterwards was garbage. Even though Waid himself insists that he didn't say "fuck it" and order the reboot around issue #56-57 of LSH V4 when the word came down they were banned from using/featuring anything Green Lantern related after turning Celeste into a Green Lantern energy being, reading #7-15 clearly showed that the writers were told something big status quo changing was coming and basically the writers twiddling their thumbs. Especially with the way that the writers were still pushing the anti-Garth stuff by writing him as an utter asshole

I never got the Wildfire hate, but I'm thankful DnA sidestepped the issue by having the two personalities merge and never mentioned his origin again. The TMK/V4 was probably worse to him and the other Bronze Age legionnaires as they had Drake make a heroic sacrifice off-panel, amputated Dawnstar's wings, and straight up murdered Blok. Hell, they turned Timber Wolf into a mindless beast and he was a late addition to the Adventure era.

As for the SW6 Legion, I would say the only other memorable issue is #9 where the team went to the Atlantis dome on "spring break". Maybe it was because it was one of the few comics where Adam Hughes drew the interiors. I recall the writers made Garth an asshole because the "real" Garth died in Adventure #304 and Proty transferred his consciousness into Garth's body. Basically some fan want because the Brierbaums were involved with some Legion APAs since the 70s. I might need some schooling, but I believe they utterly derailed Sun Boy/Inferno's character as well. Dirk was always a womanizer to my knowledge, but T&M turned him into an even bigger asshole than Garth and was an enabler of the worst sort.

 

[Hellbound Hellhound]

Exactly. Batman only works as camp, something that isn't taken seriously. Adam West was the best Batman, full stop.

I used to hate the camper portrayals of Batman when I was a teenager, but now that I'm older, I'm increasingly of the view that they're the most appropriate, simply because of how utterly ridiculous and morally suspect the whole Batman mythos truly is if you try to take it seriously.

When you break it down, Batman's superpower is essentially that he was born into wealth and privilege. He's a rich and powerful guy who has basically taken it upon himself to use his wealth and power to enforce the law in accordance with his own whim, apparently because he believes that he's better than everyone else, and that being wealthy and powerful must somehow entitle him to do so. No one elected him to this position, and it's not like he earned it either, since his wealth was entirely inherited.

What's more, the fictional universe Batman exists within tries to present this as singularly heroic, while the mere mortals in the story (i.e: the normal people who are are not wealthy oligarchs: police officers, judges, government officials, etc) are generally painted as a mixture of incompetent, cowardly, and corrupt. It's such a glibertarian billionaire ball washer fantasy that I'm honestly surprised it wasn't concocted by Ayn Rand.

 

[MirrorNoir]

@MirrorNoir



I never got the Wildfire hate, but I'm thankful DnA sidestepped the issue by having the two personalities merge and never mentioned his origin again. The TMK/V4 was probably worse to him and the other Bronze Age legionnaires as they had Drake make a heroic sacrifice off-panel, amputated Dawnstar's wings, and straight up murdered Blok. Hell, they turned Timber Wolf into a mindless beast and he was a late addition to the Adventure era.

As for the SW6 Legion, I would say the only other memorable issue is #9 where the team went to the Atlantis dome on "spring break". Maybe it was because it was one of the few comics where Adam Hughes drew the interiors. I recall the writers made Garth an asshole because the "real" Garth died in Adventure #304 and Proty transferred his consciousness into Garth's body. Basically some fan want because the Brierbaums were involved with some Legion APAs since the 70s. I might need some schooling, but I believe they utterly derailed Sun Boy/Inferno's character as well. Dirk was always a womanizer to my knowledge, but T&M turned him into an even bigger asshole than Garth and was an enabler of the worst sort.

The merged personality shit and pretending it never happened was a huge fucking cop-out, as it did nothing to deal with the fan hate for how they fucked him up. Especially when you compare it to how DNA fucked up Sensor with more half measures

Ideally, they should have just said "Fuck it" and either imported the real Wildfire in from Hypertime or just pretend the abortion never happened and redone a proper reintroduction with Drake ala the original version.

The only reason Snake Jeckie was liked was that they made her enough of a brand new OC, effectively outright ripping off Oblina from Ah! Real Monsters that you could forgive them slapping Jeckie's name on her. Sneckie was a fun character who loved life and had fun, compared to Jeckie, who was always super serious 24-7. What was done with Wildfire was pure spite and "fuck you fans for liking a character we don't like!" and added malice from DnA doubling down on it and then gloating about how Shikari was "a superior character" compared to Dawnstar and the bullshit they did with Element Lad and Monstress.

At least the Bierbaums just exiled Drake via unstated "fate worse than death" and was made to bring him back by editorial in their last issue, especially after the Squire debacle was the last straw for editorial relating to allowing them to keep their jobs after the Shvaughn debacle pretty much made them dead man walking.

I swear, if not for Legion Worlds saving their asses, DnA's run would have been a huge fucking failure and permanently killed the Legion franchise.

 

[Jetpack Himmler]

The merged personality shit and pretending it never happened was a huge fucking cop-out, as it did nothing to deal with the fan hate for how they fucked him up. Especially when you compare it to how DNA fucked up Sensor with more half measures

Ideally, they should have just said "Fuck it" and either imported the real Wildfire in from Hypertime or just pretend the abortion never happened and redone a proper reintroduction with Drake ala the original version.

The only reason Snake Jeckie was liked was that they made her enough of a brand new OC, effectively outright ripping off Oblina from Ah! Real Monsters that you could forgive them slapping Jeckie's name on her. Sneckie was a fun character who loved life and had fun, compared to Jeckie, who was always super serious 24-7. What was done with Wildfire was pure spite and "fuck you fans for liking a character we don't like!" and added malice from DnA doubling down on it and then gloating about how Shikari was "a superior character" compared to Dawnstar and the bullshit they did with Element Lad and Monstress.

At least the Bierbaums just exiled Drake via unstated "fate worse than death" and was made to bring him back by editorial in their last issue, especially after the Squire debacle was the last straw for editorial relating to allowing them to keep their jobs after the Shvaughn debacle pretty much made them dead man walking.

I swear, if not for Legion Worlds saving their asses, DnA's run would have been a huge fucking failure and permanently killed the Legion franchise.

Was there a stated reason why the Brierbaums, DnA, et. al hated Wildfire with such vitriol? I remember reading of Jim Shooter's low opinion of him, calling him hotheaded and dull many years back. Frankly, the one thing I remember about reboot Wildfire was the armor-like uniform. I agree that Shikari was a poor Dawnstar clone.

Wasn't Monstress hated by the fanbase anyway? I remember that some people complained her incessantly and didn't even care about her until Jan reduced her to a femur. Speaking of whom, yeah, I have come to hate what DnA did to Element Lad because much of their run hinged on cliffhangers. It got especially bad during "The Legion" phase where the "lost" Legionnaires were (apparently) blown up and a weakened M'onel shot in the chest with a slug only for DnA to pull some dues ex machina.

If I may pick your brain, what are your thoughts on the OC reboot characters? My favorites are are XS (because of her ties to the Flash family) and Gates, but had the distinct feeling that the creators didn't know what to do with Kinetix. Monstress, Kid Quantum II, Thunder, and Gear were pretty forgettable.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Was there a stated reason why the Brierbaums, DnA, et. al hated Wildfire with such vitriol? I remember reading of Jim Shooter's low opinion of him, calling him hotheaded and dull many years back. Frankly, the one thing I remember about reboot Wildfire was the armor-like uniform. I agree that Shikari was a poor Dawnstar clone.

Wasn't Monstress hated by the fanbase anyway? I remember that some people complained her incessantly and didn't even care about her until Jan reduced her to a femur. Speaking of whom, yeah, I have come to hate what DnA did to Element Lad because much of their run hinged on cliffhangers. It got especially bad during "The Legion" phase where the "lost" Legionnaires were (apparently) blown up and a weakened M'onel shot in the chest with a slug only for DnA to pull some dues ex machina.

If I may pick your brain, what are your thoughts on the OC reboot characters? My favorites are are XS (because of her ties to the Flash family) and Gates, but had the distinct feeling that the creators didn't know what to do with Kinetix. Monstress, Kid Quantum II, Thunder, and Gear were pretty forgettable.

i very vaguely remember the LOSH stuff on the OC reboot, but I kinda got the vibe that most reboot "originals" kinda just wound up being not that memorable.

Except for maybe Gates, if he counts. I don't remember if he's a reboot legion member though.

I lowkey did enjoy Morrison's Legion mini-event during Final Crisis. Shame Rond Vidar croaked.

 

[MirrorNoir]

Wildfire is hated by Adventure Comics purists because he was more or less an attempt to create a "Marvel-type" character for the Legion, combined with the fact that he was originally supposed to be a one-off character who was supposed to have died in his first appearance but who's death was overturned and made a Legion member by fan response.

The people who hate Wildfire are also the same people who hate Dawnstar, the second Invisible Kid, and
Timber Wolf (who while appearing as a side character in the Adventure Comics era, didn't officially join until the Grell/Cockrum era and is largely associated with that era leading to the Adventure Comics era fags hating him because he "wasn't a real Legion member" and don't want him around on the team).

Also people LOVED Monstress when she joined the team (she was introduced as a member of a rival Legion group) and her prim and proper super girly attitude. She was basically super girly She-Hulk, as super girly prim Sneckie was also big as far as Legion going after that demographic that liked their waifus that way during this period.

The chief problem with Monstress was that, a later artist complained about her being a She-Hulk rip-off and demanded she be changed, so she suddenly got a literal color swap plot device used on her to turn her orange and stopped getting much screen time due to fans hating the color change. DnA outright made up the shit about her being disliked by fans to justify their character assassination of Element Lad killing her off (the same way they still play the "Dawnstar is racist" card to justify Shikari), as well as them changing her from a woman from a planet of orges ala Shrek and Fionna, to being a young girl who got turned into an orge via an accident at a factory and ditching the girly girl angle to make her a tragic monster type

 

[JimiHendrix]

you kids know any comics about holy templars/crusaders. burnin' witches type shit. preferably about the crusaders.

religious aesthetic is neat and not something i've actually pursued much.

 

[DaBigBopper]

you kids know any comics about holy templars/crusaders. burnin' witches type shit. preferably about the crusaders.

religious aesthetic is neat and not something i've actually pursued much.

You're better off with Manga for that and a few eurocomics that I can't recall. Western (US, Canada, and UK) have fedora tippers that abhor that shit. Hellboy does have bits about witch hunting, one really good story where the chick finds out that the witch in question wasn't some young girl, but a cheating bitch who wanted to call upon infernal powers to kill her rival an old priest beats her by yelling out a prayer and hitting her with a shovel.

didn't marvel stop hickman from progressing his story he had in mind because of the talentless hacks that whined and wanted the ethnostate and orgies to be the status quo?

Hickman is a prima donna, but Marvel sucks harder than it did during Shadowland. As much as I hated Bendis, his big events were fun, dumb ideas that better writers could have fun with despite how stupid and big they are. Hickman goes full retard and ruins everything with him doing "smart" ideas really dumb and ignoring characterization, plot holes, huge leaps in logic for little pay off. Dark Reign was actually fun, it made sense for the X-Men to go full on Waco Mode. I would honestly think it'd be better if a writer largely ignored what was happening or undermined the event, X-Men writers tend to really go balls deep into shitty allegory for what is effectively a coming of age story that deals with the inherent differences we all have, not Malcolm X with a gun for a head.

Sana Amant really needs to fuck off and either be connected to Epstein somehow so she is never heard from again. She enabled the worst fucking people to come into comics and her pet characters are fucking boring.

 

[MirrorNoir]

Sword and Trial of Magneto this week reminded me why I'm bailing on the X-Books after Inferno:

1. Abigail Brand is basically reveals that she's basically wanting to rule the the solar system and manipulating EVERYONE to achieve her aim to make herself Queen, complete with making Storm her patsy if shit goes south and she needs to scapegoat someone. Also, she murders longtime magnificent bastard Henry Gyrich with it implied she's now aiming to bring ORCHIS under her thumb as part of her desire to be Girl Hitler.

2. Trial ended with a really god-awful ending to cement the resurrection protocols as Wanda and Magneto force Toad to take the fall for Wanda's "death" combined with the reveal that Wanda had Magneto murdered as part of a convoluted scheme to make mutantkind love her again by (with help from Legion and Polaris) cast a spell that retroactively ADDS all dead mutants who every lived and who died before the resurrection protocols began (which in and of itself has always been vague as fuck) to be dragged out of heaven and hell and put into a "paradise" dimension Wanda made on the astral plane to store them in for future resurrection.

Also, we find out that the AIDS baby from the Northstar coming out story in Alpha Flight #106 (referrenced without footnote) was secretly a mutant and Northstar's giddy him and his husband are going to raise the kid once she's resurrected sans AIDS and we get the long dead Thunderbird FINALLY resurrected thanks to Wanda, who's now permanently living on Krakoa now.

Also, the only good thing Wanda really did is that she has also created a suicide "gateway" of sorts so depowered mutants don't have to be ritually murdered in the Crucible to get their powers back. They just step through a portal and get vaporized while their mind hangs out in Wanda's new pocket universe version of heaven to wait for resurrection.

I can forgive ToM sucking given the behind the scenes shit meddling with the story, but SWORD was just god-fucking awful because I seriously doubt ANYONE at Marvel will have the balls to have Brand get her comeuppence anytime soon. And Gyrich dying is super sucky too given that he deserves a better send-off than being killed by a god-awful Mary Sue doing a really bad Maria Hill impersonation. And keeping Wanda in the X-Books will not end well; she needs either to be part of the main Avengers book or given a proper West Coast Avengers spin-off or Vision/Scarlet Witch book already.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Sword and Trial of Magneto this week reminded me why I'm bailing on the X-Books after Inferno:

1. Abigail Brand is basically reveals that she's basically wanting to rule the the solar system and manipulating EVERYONE to achieve her aim to make herself Queen, complete with making Storm her patsy if shit goes south and she needs to scapegoat someone. Also, she murders longtime magnificent bastard Henry Gyrich with it implied she's now aiming to bring ORCHIS under her thumb as part of her desire to be Girl Hitler.

2. Trial ended with a really god-awful ending to cement the resurrection protocols as Wanda and Magneto force Toad to take the fall for Wanda's "death" combined with the reveal that Wanda had Magneto murdered as part of a convoluted scheme to make mutantkind love her again by (with help from Legion and Polaris) cast a spell that retroactively ADDS all dead mutants who every lived and who died before the resurrection protocols began (which in and of itself has always been vague as fuck) to be dragged out of heaven and hell and put into a "paradise" dimension Wanda made on the astral plane to store them in for future resurrection.

Also, we find out that the AIDS baby from the Northstar coming out story in Alpha Flight #106 (referrenced without footnote) was secretly a mutant and Northstar's giddy him and his husband are going to raise the kid once she's resurrected sans AIDS and we get the long dead Thunderbird FINALLY resurrected thanks to Wanda, who's now permanently living on Krakoa now.

Also, the only good thing Wanda really did is that she has also created a suicide "gateway" of sorts so depowered mutants don't have to be ritually murdered in the Crucible to get their powers back. They just step through a portal and get vaporized while their mind hangs out in Wanda's new pocket universe version of heaven to wait for resurrection.

I can forgive ToM sucking given the behind the scenes shit meddling with the story, but SWORD was just god-fucking awful because I seriously doubt ANYONE at Marvel will have the balls to have Brand get her comeuppence anytime soon. And Gyrich dying is super sucky too given that he deserves a better send-off than being killed by a god-awful Mary Sue doing a really bad Maria Hill impersonation. And keeping Wanda in the X-Books will not end well; she needs either to be part of the main Avengers book or given a proper West Coast Avengers spin-off or Vision/Scarlet Witch book already.

wait so are Abigail and Wanda proper villains now?