Sperg about comic books here

[GranDuke]

Yeah, people advocating for reboots usually think that their preferred version will be selected as basis for the new universe. But that is not going to happened regardless if SJWs are involved or not.

 

[Registration]

I much prefer how Marvel does continuity than the DC's retardation crisis. It is incredible how much trying to "fix" actually destroys the characters and the hands off approach of Marvel actually makes a character feel more solid.

 

[That Chris Guy]

I much prefer how Marvel does continuity than the DC's retardation crisis. It is incredible how much trying to "fix" actually destroys the characters and the hands off approach of Marvel actually makes a character feel more solid.

I dunno. I actually enjoyed Flashpoint and some of the ideas behind New 52 and Rebirth, but then again, I didn't really follow any of the series runs through to their entirety. Unfortunately where Marvel just exploded into stupidity with Marvel NOW! and everything else that's followed it, DC's letting it slowly take root and gradually manifest in more of their fiction over time.

They all need to be motorboated by big-titted anime girls with (unsolicited opinions about Israel).

 

[Red Hood]

Yeah, people advocating for reboots usually think that their preferred version will be selected as basis for the new universe. But that is not going to happened regardless if SJWs are involved or not.

Reboots to me say "Fuck this shit, I give up."

 

[That Chris Guy]

View attachment 2859518
Who has read all of this series? Is it good, worthwhile to read?

I've only read the mainline entry. It's another story involving multiverse fuckery and previously unknown deities, but eh, I enjoyed it. Batman Who Laughs is a pretty good idea, but I'm not sure how the character has been used in anything afterwards.

 

[Registration]

I dunno. I actually enjoyed Flashpoint and some of the ideas behind New 52 and Rebirth, but then again, I didn't really follow any of the series runs through to their entirety. Unfortunately where Marvel just exploded into stupidity with Marvel NOW! and everything else that's followed it, DC's letting it slowly take root and gradually manifest in more of their fiction over time.

They all need to be motorboated by big-titted anime girls with (unsolicited opinions about Israel).

Lets use Superman as example:

Before Flashpoint you had the post-crisis one with a somehow defined Origin. Then after N52, you have another Superman with a defined Origin. Then in Rebirth they fused together to create a new superman that its origin is unknown but is a mix of two, already retconning the birth of its own son. And yeah, it never really needed to happen, you could have two different supermen but they decided to fuse them together to create another one.

This wasn't slowly taking root, it was the most retarded way of doing things. One of the superman was already dead and the other already took place, so they went and resuscitate to kill both versions and their particularities to just nothing, since the new superman was basically the same shit as the post crisis one.

This made me drop Superman so bad that nowadays, I feel happy seeing the character going to shit since this decision was for me the dropping point of how DC is retarded.

 

[JimiHendrix]

View attachment 2859518
Who has read all of this series? Is it good, worthwhile to read?

if you like edgelord stories with good ideas executed badly. then sure, go for it.

 

[DaBigBopper]

I dislike reboots (largely because DC continually fails at them) but, yeah, so many of the classic Marvel characters have strayed from what people used to like about them that a reboot might be the only way to salvage the universe. Not sure if they should go with a total reboot or a Zero Hour type one.

The biggest problem, though, is that the current crop of writers are absolute shit. Every new version would be probably gender or race swapped and some form of gay or bisexual.

Honestly if they did some event that fucked with time like the Red Moment in Elder Scrolls and then did a flash forward, I wouldn't hate it. Issue is that a lot of Marvel regular writers are autists who do not play nice with other people. Have reality unfurl itself as someone tries to rewrite it or some shit.

 

[MirrorNoir]

Lets use Superman as example:

Before Flashpoint you had the post-crisis one with a somehow defined Origin. Then after N52, you have another Superman with a defined Origin. Then in Rebirth they fused together to create a new superman that its origin is unknown but is a mix of two, already retconning the birth of its own son. And yeah, it never really needed to happen, you could have two different supermen but they decided to fuse them together to create another one.

This wasn't slowly taking root, it was the most retarded way of doing things. One of the superman was already dead and the other already took place, so they went and resuscitate to kill both versions and their particularities to just nothing, since the new superman was basically the same shit as the post crisis one.

This made me drop Superman so bad that nowadays, I feel happy seeing the character going to shit since this decision was for me the dropping point of how DC is retarded.

That's not what happened.

Jurgens and Tomasi first brought Post-Crisis Superman and Lois back from exile (via a plot point that he and a lot of other heroes were grabbed and moved out of time right before Flash rebooted shit in Flashpoint and having the kid born during this period of exile) and put him and Lois into the New 52 to take over New 52 Lois and Clark's lives and using Mxyptlk to handwave the god-awful Superman outed as Clark Kent storyline.

He then handwaved that New 52 Superman and Lois were fragments of Post-Crisis Lois and Clark, merged them back with Post Crisis Lois and Clark.

As such, the bulk of the New 52 lore for Superman was erased and the Post-Crisis lore restored. HOWEVER the universe also auto-corrected to reflect Jonathon's birth by saying that he was born in the past and that Lois/Clark had been living in Smallville for several years and that only a handful of New 52 stories actually happened and that the only thing from the Morrison New 52 origin that carried over was the Kents being dead (which was overturned in Doomsday Clock)

 

[Jetpack Himmler]

As for Sue; DiDio and Geoff Johns DESPISES Justice League International and in general, DC hates Elongated Man and prefer the inferior Plastic Man instead.

The funny thing about that is:

A) Elongated Man was a member of the Satellite-era Justice League, which I assume is their favorite incarnation.

&

B) Why do I get the feeling that their hatred JLI stems from a hatred of the Detroit era, which pretty much the nadir of the League's history. IIRC, DC wanted to copy New Teen Titans success by jettisoning most of the team and replacing them with D-Listers like Vixen and Steel as well as new characters like Gypsy and Vibe while Martian Manhunter, Aquaman, Zatanna, and Elongated Man stayed on as the veterans. I remember how stupid the Earth/Mars War was as Aquaman's rationale for unilaterally dissolving the League was he wanted a full-time commitment from its members. Never mind the fact that Superman, Wonder Woman, and the Flash were off-world at the time so it struck me as a douchey power move. I believe Hal Jordan quit the GLC and Batman had already quit to form the Outsiders...

...anyway. I can somewhat understand why DiDio and Johns hated JLD/I. I remember looking at issues of Justice League America when little kid back in the early 90s and getting a bad taste in my mouth. My assumption at the time was that the Justice League were DC's A-listers and often asked myself, "Who the fuck are these guys?" when I looked at Blue Beetle, Captian Atom, et. al As such, I didn't pick up any JL titles until Morrison's run. Not that justifies what DiDio and Brad Meltzer as I consider Identity Crisis an exploitative and grotesque abortion of a storyline that made the DCU a needlessly dark place.

 

[Registration]

That's not what happened.

Jurgens and Tomasi first brought Post-Crisis Superman and Lois back from exile (via a plot point that he and a lot of other heroes were grabbed and moved out of time right before Flash rebooted shit in Flashpoint and having the kid born during this period of exile) and put him and Lois into the New 52 to take over New 52 Lois and Clark's lives and using Mxyptlk to handwave the god-awful Superman outed as Clark Kent storyline.

He then handwaved that New 52 Superman and Lois were fragments of Post-Crisis Lois and Clark, merged them back with Post Crisis Lois and Clark.

As such, the bulk of the New 52 lore for Superman was erased and the Post-Crisis lore restored. HOWEVER the universe also auto-corrected to reflect Jonathon's birth by saying that he was born in the past and that Lois/Clark had been living in Smallville for several years and that only a handful of New 52 stories actually happened and that the only thing from the Morrison New 52 origin that carried over was the Kents being dead (which was overturned in Doomsday Clock)

Oh god I deleted the horrible lois larping as young lois from my mind.

But the problem is still the same: convoluted shit to "fix" what wasn't broken. And the superman's stories with his identity revealed were fucking nice, him brawling with gods right after was top superman, giving both humanity to him and making it foil to the other deities.

And didn't they reveal his identity again later anyway with bendis shit?

 

[GranDuke]

Yeah, the problem doesn't go away and it gets even bigger when you start factoring in other series like Superwoman. It is one of the most retarded things DC has ever done with a major property.

And yes, his identity was revealed again by Bendis. It is obvious that editors wanted Superman to reveal his identity and when it didn't work out that well with New 52 version they waited few years and did it again, Bendis was just an instrument.

 

[Giga_Nigga_28]

"Who the fuck are these guys?"

Wasn't that the point of Jli?

 

[Alexander Thaut]

View attachment 2859518
Who has read all of this series? Is it good, worthwhile to read?

it's brainless guilty pleasure stuff. don't think too hard about it. just appreciate it for not being SJW'd.

She is not fat in regular comics. That Catwoman series takes place in some dystopian future where most of the characters are a bit different.

So is the logic behind her turning into Tess Holliday (seriously, that's whose photo they traced for Ivy in that panel) that she grows like a tree, adding a new ring of width every year? So, say, if this book took place in 100 years instead of 20, she'd be 40 feet wide and 120 feet tall?

I swear there's been a few throwaway lines about how Poison Ivy gains weight from sunlight too.

Psycho killer Nightcrawler was the AOA version, who briefly ran around when the real Nightcrawler was dead in the early 00s.

As for good X-Books. Rosenberg's X-Men was good but only by the standards that everything from 2013-2018 was unreadable. Hellions was good out of the new Hickman books, while X-Factor was decent in so far as it was a spiritual successor to PAD's second X-Factor run and Alpha Flight in general (along with making Dakan actually likable if not still a bit of a douche).

As for other stuff: Inferno #4 dropped today

Spoiler: Hickman's Ending

Mystique and Destiny depower Moira but realize they fucked up since they gave Moira what she wanted all along; to be human. Also, Moira is saved by motherfucking Cypher, who with his one dimensional Otherworld mutant amazon wife who is also a glorified cipher character, bullies Destiny and Mystique into letting Moira flee with Warlock giving her a new techno-organic arm. Oh and Moira admits she still fucking hates mutants and that the cure she was working on in her past life only works on mutants who's powers haven't manifested yet and Destiny implies Cypher and Warlock are plotting their own shit and letting Moira live allows Destiny and Mystique to keep power and possibly gain the needed resources to stop Doug and his schemes.

Meanwhile Nimrod and Omega Sentinel slaughter the ORCHIS mooks they came with to kill Magneto and Xavier and reveal that they represent AI/robots rebelling against all forms of organic life who treat machines like crap (shades of Slott's AI war storyline in Iron Man). They kill Xavier and Magneto, who die and basically lose all knowledge that Nimrod and Omega Sentinel are manipulating humanity and plan on double crossing them once mutantkind is dead, since Xavier's helmet is also destroyed before he can do a quicksave of their minds midbattle.

It then goes to the opening scene of Inferno #1 as Emma resurrects Mags and Xavier and we find out that she delayed their resurrection for a week so she could tell the rest of the Quiet Council about how Xavier, Moira, Sinister, and Magneto have been fucking over every mutant and their mother for decades to get Krakoa to happen. It's implied non-verbally that Kurt and Storm now no longer have any respect for Xavier now that his latest bad shit is public knowledge, at the very least while Kitty and Colossus are left vague about it. The book ends with a teaser for Gillen's Immortal X-Men which is supposed to be about the Council's shennanigans.

At least X-Men #6 was decent though, even though the Captain Krakoa stuff is god-awful filler with Scott having to fake his death to keep Ulrich from revealing mutant resurrection to the public. The subplot of the pissed off Chinese Elon Musk at least finally had a pay-off and puts us one step closer to the Otherworld mutants being wiped out.

I know the X-Men are supposed to be a soap opera, but we've gone from superhero soap opera to uh

whatever you call this. are any of the X-Men still superheroes at heart?

also Cipher/Warlock being plotters? Really? I doubt they're up to anything outright evil. I haven't caught up on comics in the past 6 months or so.

Big Time was just Brand New Day rebranded due to the toxic nature of it. It's why most fans don't even bother with the name when discussing post-OMD era Spidey in terms of everything from #546-700 basically being one big fuck you to fans, save for Spider Island, until Superior had them double down on telling fans to fuck off.

what even was the point of OMD because Mary Jane and Peter were about as iconic a couple as Clark and Lois.

DiDio really hated Stephanie and Leslie Tompkins got thrown under the bus by DiDio sycophant Bill Willingham because the other Batman writers explicitly made Batman deny Steph medical treatment so as to create such a stain with the storyline that they were hoping against hope that they could force DC to use Infinite Crisis to erase it down the line but DiDio opted to force editorial to rush out a sequel story that scapegoats Leslie.

Why Stephanie? I don't get it. She was just another C list Gotham vigilante.

Gotham has the issue of just existing with so much bloat.

As for Sue; DiDio and Geoff Johns DESPISES Justice League International and in general, DC hates Elongated Man and prefer the inferior Plastic Man instead. Also, for fun factoids: Brad Meltzer DESPISES Jean Lorring for being a whore and cheating on Ray "Atom" Palmer, hence why she was the murderer in Identity Crisis.

Hating the JLI sounds weird. Plastic Man's fine, but he's also never really been utilized much in the modern era outside of the Morrison JLA. Like holy shit, they even kept his Golden Age hero status but couldn't stick him in the JSA books for an arc.

Elongated Man is fine, don't know why they insisted on just shoving him to the background as a relic considering that he's a rather intriguing character. Man was one of the first in-universe superheroes to reveal his secret identity and traveled the world with his wife as a superhero and detective. It was a very cutesy concept and the JLI/JLE years had some interesting things like the silver age villain Sonar brainwashing a bunch of heroes and trying to brainwash Sue Dibny into loving him instead of Ralph.

Honestly the JLI/JLE stuff deserves more credit than it got. It's just a shame because I wish we got to see more of the Global Guardians and Bialya than we actually got. Also the premises for the storyline where Ice died wasn't a bad idea on paper, but the art and execution were shit. Same with the event that was going to introduce Captain Atom as Monarch.

 

[Water-T]

@Alexander Thaut: "Also the premises for the storyline where Ice died wasn't a bad idea on paper, but the art and execution were shit."

That led to Icemaiden taking her place on the team, and trying to some messed-up Single White Female fuckery on Tora's best friend, Fire. She showed up at Bea's place dressed like Tora AND TRIES TO GET HER INTO BED. WTF? This seems to work, until Fire snaps out of it and rightfully gets pissed at Sigrid for pretending to be her dead best friend in an attempt to get some scissoring action. Then Icemaiden is all like HA HA! YOU PASSED MY TEST! THIS WAS JUST TO HELP YOU COPE WITH THE DEATH OF YOUR CLOSEST FRIEND, AND NOT A SOME GROSS WAY TO EXPLOIT YOUR GRIEF JUST TO GET YOU INTO BED! PLEASE DON'T REPORT ME TO WONDER WOMAN!

Then years later, after Ice gets resurrected, Judd Winnick goes and pushes a r3tarded retcon on Tora in the "Generation Lost" Mini-series. Now instead of being the daughter of a Norse demi-god from a hidden tribe of cryo-kinetics, Tora is now the daughter of the tribe leader of wandering grifters, like those Romanifolket aka "Travelers" that go from town to town running scams for money.

How this gels with the JLA fighting her brother in her family's ice kingdom is never explained, since Tora's new retcon doesn't have her living in Norway or a rebellious brother attempting a coup. One of the stupidest and most pointless retcons ever. There was no need to change Ice's past at all.

There's a new Human Target mini that has the title character dating Tora and discussing her retconned past, but i've got my fingers crossed that Tom King forgoes his usual "Old White Guy Has The Sads" story and undoes Winnick's dumb retcon.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

@Alexander Thaut: "Also the premises for the storyline where Ice died wasn't a bad idea on paper, but the art and execution were shit."

That led to Icemaiden taking her place on the team, and trying to some messed-up Single White Female fuckery on Tora's best friend, Fire. She showed up at Bea's place dressed like Tora AND TRIES TO GET HER INTO BED. WTF? This seems to work, until Fire snaps out of it and rightfully gets pissed at Sigrid for pretending to be her dead best friend in an attempt to get some scissoring action. Then Icemaiden is all like HA HA! YOU PASSED MY TEST! THIS WAS JUST TO HELP YOU COPE WITH THE DEATH OF YOUR CLOSEST FRIEND, AND NOT A SOME GROSS WAY TO EXPLOIT YOUR GRIEF JUST TO GET YOU INTO BED! PLEASE DON'T REPORT ME TO WONDER WOMAN!

Icemaiden's stuff seemed like it could have fit into some ploy involving any one of a number of fucked up brainwash/mind control schemes. Like if they had said that she was a deep cover brainwashed Queen Bee spy/agent, it would have been believable.

Then years later, after Ice gets resurrected, Judd Winnick goes and pushes a r3tarded retcon on Tora in the "Generation Lost" Mini-series. Now instead of being the daughter of a Norse demi-god from a hidden tribe of cryo-kinetics, Tora is now the daughter of the tribe leader of wandering grifters, like those Romanifolket aka "Travelers" that go from town to town running scams for money.

they did what

man the year before Flashpoint was weird.

How this gels with the JLA fighting her brother in her family's ice kingdom is never explained, since Tora's new retcon doesn't have her living in Norway or a rebellious brother attempting a coup. One of the stupidest and most pointless retcons ever. There was no need to change Ice's past at all.

DC's always had a doorway into using Norse myth for stuff before (Viking Prince), but early 90s stuff was always wasted potential in DC.

There's a new Human Target mini that has the title character dating Tora and discussing her retconned past, but i've got my fingers crossed that Tom King forgoes his usual "Old White Guy Has The Sads" story and undoes Winnick's dumb retcon.

Dunno how to feel about human target getting attention.

I really enjoyed it when Tora got revived and Guy Gardner got back with her.

hell, Guy Gardner's 90s shenanigans make total sense if you remember that Guy had major brain damage. I found it funny that they kept giving him the Green Lantern lore leftovers like Sinestro's ring and whatnot. He then turned into a vuldarian or w/e? Some last of his kind alien?

I swear to God that 90s Guy Gardner was just an acid trip. Man scammed Lobo, fought the Weaponeers of Qward, and did it all while under brain damage. I think the only notable things to happen in the guy gardner: warrior series was Arisa's death (the orange green lantern chick) and the founding of the Warriors Bar (which has popped up as notable DC location over the years).

then guy died during the Imperiex event? it's not too clear.

Dude's one of my favorite classic superheroes for a reason. I hope that we see more of him in the future because he's just a really fun character.

 

[40 Year Old Boomer]

also Cipher/Warlock being plotters? Really? I doubt they're up to anything outright evil. I haven't caught up on comics in the past 6 months or so.

I'm guessing Doug and Warlock's game is the rejection of the us vs them in regards to biologicals vs technologicals and lead everyone on a middle path. Synthesis over elimination.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

I'm guessing Doug and Warlock's game is the rejection of the us vs them in regards to biologicals vs technologicals and lead everyone on a middle path. Synthesis over elimination.

hopefully we get a reference to superior iron man in there.

 

[Water-T]

I really enjoyed it when Tora got revived and Guy Gardner got back with her.

hell, Guy Gardner's 90s shenanigans make total sense if you remember that Guy had major brain damage. I found it funny that they kept giving him the Green Lantern lore leftovers like Sinestro's ring and whatnot. He then turned into a vuldarian or w/e? Some last of his kind alien?

I swear to God that 90s Guy Gardner was just an acid trip. Man scammed Lobo, fought the Weaponeers of Qward, and did it all while under brain damage. I think the only notable things to happen in the guy gardner: warrior series was Arisa's death (the orange green lantern chick) and the founding of the Warriors Bar (which has popped up as notable DC location over the years).

then guy died during the Imperiex event? it's not too clear.

Dude's one of my favorite classic superheroes for a reason. I hope that we see more of him in the future because he's just a really fun character.

In 2005, during the event that had Hal coming back to life and reclaiming the GL title, Guy's body rejected his Vuldarian DNA and he became a full-on regular human. Then he got a ring and has been a GL since. He courted Tora when she came back from the dead, but she asked him for some space and time since she was dealing with being alive again and rebuilding her life.

He's been doing a lot of bass-ass stuff since, like joining a GL black ops team, becoming a Red Lantern, and fist-fighting giant jacked aliens without aid of a ring. He's eased up on his asshole behavior, but he still doesn't give any fucks whatsoever (he once mooned Batman in front of the whole JLA)

 

[Alexander Thaut]

In 2005, during the event that had Hal coming back to life and reclaiming the GL title, Guy's body rejected his Vuldarian DNA and he became a full-on regular human. Then he got a ring and has been a GL since. He courted Tora when she came back from the dead, but she asked him for some space and time since she was dealing with being alive again and rebuilding her life.

He's been doing a lot of bass-ass stuff since, like joining a GL black ops team, becoming a Red Lantern, and fist-fighting giant jacked aliens without aid of a ring. He's eased up on his asshole behavior, but he still doesn't give any fucks whatsoever (he once mooned Batman in front of the whole JLA)

funny how he still canonically has brain damage but you know what.

he's my favorite brain damaged superhero. a true icon of the era.