Sperg about comic books here

[MirrorNoir]

@Alexander Thaut: "Also the premises for the storyline where Ice died wasn't a bad idea on paper, but the art and execution were shit."

That led to Icemaiden taking her place on the team, and trying to some messed-up Single White Female fuckery on Tora's best friend, Fire. She showed up at Bea's place dressed like Tora AND TRIES TO GET HER INTO BED. WTF? This seems to work, until Fire snaps out of it and rightfully gets pissed at Sigrid for pretending to be her dead best friend in an attempt to get some scissoring action. Then Icemaiden is all like HA HA! YOU PASSED MY TEST! THIS WAS JUST TO HELP YOU COPE WITH THE DEATH OF YOUR CLOSEST FRIEND, AND NOT A SOME GROSS WAY TO EXPLOIT YOUR GRIEF JUST TO GET YOU INTO BED! PLEASE DON'T REPORT ME TO WONDER WOMAN!

Then years later, after Ice gets resurrected, Judd Winnick goes and pushes a r3tarded retcon on Tora in the "Generation Lost" Mini-series. Now instead of being the daughter of a Norse demi-god from a hidden tribe of cryo-kinetics, Tora is now the daughter of the tribe leader of wandering grifters, like those Romanifolket aka "Travelers" that go from town to town running scams for money.

How this gels with the JLA fighting her brother in her family's ice kingdom is never explained, since Tora's new retcon doesn't have her living in Norway or a rebellious brother attempting a coup. One of the stupidest and most pointless retcons ever. There was no need to change Ice's past at all.

There's a new Human Target mini that has the title character dating Tora and discussing her retconned past, but i've got my fingers crossed that Tom King forgoes his usual "Old White Guy Has The Sads" story and undoes Winnick's dumb retcon.

The writer of the main JLA book that came up with the idea for killing Ice was failed indie writer Dan Vado, who got the gig writing JLA thanks to Mark Waid.

Vado was jealous of the success that Image had and wanted to make JLA an edgy as fuck book ala Wildcats and Youngblood. He hated Ice in particular, because she was a popular waifu character, especially with her relationship with Guy Gardner. So he had her get turned evil and kill a bunch of people then get killed off.

Ironically Waid (who was filling in on Justice League Task Force, a book created to rip off Secret Defenders at the time) ended up getting the short straw and had to write Ice's death scene and managed to convince the editor to have him have ice break free of her mind control before being made to kill her off (which he lampooned via having T.O. Morrow, a JLA villain, mockingly watching the battle against Overlord keeping track of the details with the punch line being that he knew how the battle was going to play out against Overmaster but only caring because Ice was going to die in terms of trolling other heroes trying to get him to help stop Overmaster).

Ice's death was VERY controversial and had repercussions: Dan Vado got kicked off of JLA but given that edgy JLA spin-off he wanted (and 90% of the Giffen JLA cast) Extreme Justice. Future Chomo Gerald Jones, who's Justice League Europe book got canceled to make room for Extreme Justice, imported most of his cast into JLA to replace them with Fire and Wonder woman being the only carry overs from the roster swap.

Waid pretty much IMMEDIATELY disowned the issue where he killed Ice's death, basically saying Vado managed to get Waid overruled (Waid didn't get super powerful behind the scenes at DC until AFTER Zero Hour and Flash #95-100). But editorial was loyal to Vado, even after he got fired from Extreme Justice after the book tanked day one. But the same editorial also refused to bring Ice back and it wasn't until decades later when Gail Simone cashed in favors, that she managed to get Ice resurrected.

And Jones's Icemaiden herself was Jones doing a half-assed continuity patch and half-assed fan service by creating a replacement scrappy Ice that was (most likely) written on orders from editorila to make people hate Ice retroactively. The character continuity-wise, came from the fact that Keith Giffen didn't bother doing research on the Global Guardians and had Ice show up in JLI with a brand new name and look, rather than researching to find out the character's actual name and look/design; something made worse by the fact that the character had appeared in Infinity Inc months prior to her appearance in JLI.

Finally, Ethan Dorkin, who was BFFs with Dan Vado, explicitly has stated that he created Elintonville (the infamous anti-nerd comic strip turned failed Adult Swim show) as a response to the backlash towards Vado getting hate from JLI fans. And has shown his own arrogance, explicitly ignoring that there was a ban on bringing her back and how Simone had to do some serious begging on her knees to bring her back, whenever he talks about Ice's death and how reversible death is in comics, while ignoring that editorial WILL play favorites on who can be resurrected or not and WILL keep characters dead to pander to certain creatorsx (as was the case with Vado's supporters at DC keeping Ice dead as a favor to him).

Icemaiden's stuff seemed like it could have fit into some ploy involving any one of a number of fucked up brainwash/mind control schemes. Like if they had said that she was a deep cover brainwashed Queen Bee spy/agent, it would have been believable.

they did what

man the year before Flashpoint was weird.

DC's always had a doorway into using Norse myth for stuff before (Viking Prince), but early 90s stuff was always wasted potential in DC.

Dunno how to feel about human target getting attention.

I really enjoyed it when Tora got revived and Guy Gardner got back with her.

hell, Guy Gardner's 90s shenanigans make total sense if you remember that Guy had major brain damage. I found it funny that they kept giving him the Green Lantern lore leftovers like Sinestro's ring and whatnot. He then turned into a vuldarian or w/e? Some last of his kind alien?

I swear to God that 90s Guy Gardner was just an acid trip. Man scammed Lobo, fought the Weaponeers of Qward, and did it all while under brain damage. I think the only notable things to happen in the guy gardner: warrior series was Arisa's death (the orange green lantern chick) and the founding of the Warriors Bar (which has popped up as notable DC location over the years).

then guy died during the Imperiex event? it's not too clear.

Dude's one of my favorite classic superheroes for a reason. I hope that we see more of him in the future because he's just a really fun character.

Winnick has stated outright that his retcon for Ice was going to be permanent and was one of the straws that cost him the writing gig on JLI when Flashpoint happened (as the title was going to happen after Brightest Day but got reworked), as far as backlashes towards Generation Lost making DC give the gig to Jurgens; who I should note outright ignored Winnick's retcon and wrote Ice as she normally was written.

Also, Guy was supposed to have been killed in Our Worlds At War but the backlash that he got such a lousy death was such that DC had him show up afterwards, retconning it to Blue Beetle freaking out and Guy only being wounded.

That said, Beau Smith's Guy Gardner run is really good even with Guy looking like a rave painted Chippendale Dancer.

I'm guessing Doug and Warlock's game is the rejection of the us vs them in regards to biologicals vs technologicals and lead everyone on a middle path. Synthesis over elimination.

Hickman left clues, especially in Inferno #3, that Warlock might be playing a long game and him coming to Earth tying into the cliffhanger from House/Power of X, where the Phalanx find out about Moira and her powers and the unresolved plot point where the Phalanx may have gotten to a black hole outside time and space before Moira killed herself to reset the timeline, allowing them to know all about her wiping out entire histories with her mobius loop power.

Also, it is implied Warlock may be the "Trickster Phalanx" that will send Omega Sentinel's mind back in time to form Orchis after the mutants wipe out nearly the entire Phalanx hivemind save for the Trickster entity.

funny how he still canonically has brain damage but you know what.

he's my favorite brain damaged superhero. a true icon of the era.

The brain damage got thrown out a long time ago.

Gerald Jones basically wrote that Guy suffered unspeakable childhood abuse at the hands of his father and his older brother (who was his father's favorite and helped torment his younger brother in terms of being a bad seed type that got along with his equally vile dad). This caused Guy to suffer SEVERE emotional and psychological issues, that culminated in his older brother (now a corrupt as fuck cop) threatening to frame Guy for a crime he didn't commit as a teenager if he didn't 100% submit to their evil father's will and be a good little drone that did as he was told when he was told.

As such, Guy has MASSIVE rage issues that he kept repressed for YEARS that leaked out (as seen in Emerald Dawn II when a young criminal he befriended as a social worker nearly died) and climaxed when he was abandoned by Hal for dead and tortured by Sinestro and found out that Hal almost immediately started fucking his girlfriend and damn near came close to marrying her if not for Sinestro trolling him into finding out that Guy was alive just to spoil the wedding

When he woke up from his torture induced coma, Guy had a full on mental breakdown and all of his repressed anger and rage was flowing free and then some. The infamous bump on the head was a comedy induced bit of ass-covering, as Guy getting the JLI roster spot pissed off Hal fanboys, who saw him as an asshole and would be villain, so Giffen had to make Guy super nice both to cover his ass and make Guy less of an asshole and to mock fans who hated him BECAUSE he was an asshole and once he went back to normal, Giffen introduced the relationship with Ice to humanize Guy.

 

[Water-T]

That said, Beau Smith's Guy Gardner run is really good even with Guy looking like a rave painted Chippendale Dancer.

IIRC, that was also more editorial fuckery on DC's part.

Guy's first solo series had him using Sinestro's yellow ring since the little blue douches on Oa decided to do givesies backsies on Guy's GL ring. After a year and half, the title was changed from "Guy Gardner" to "Warrior", and he was given a more "edgy" 90s look.

Around this time was when all GL rings except Kyle Rayner's were now useless trinkets after Hal went cuckoo for cocoa puffs and consumed the main battery on Oa, and Zero Hour was shaking up the status quo. Since Guy's yellow ring worked by taking juice from GL rings and there was only one working GL ring, he had to resort to wearing power armor that was once a prototype for Booster Gold's post-Doomsday armor.

Beau Smith wanted to turn Guy's book into a Indiana Jones/Doc Savage genre book, along with a cast of jungle mercs and a were-tiger as his crew.....but DC was like, "Nope - you're going to give him XXXTREME MORPHING POWERS AND TATTOOS! XXXTREMEEEE ONES!" to cash in on the Mighty Morphin Powers Rangers craze, so after a handful of issues of Guy romping through the jungle, he gains his alien morphing powers and the series lasted a total of 45 or so issues.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

Finally finished up my read through of Daredevil v1 starting from #124 and ending with #380, the original 'final' issue.

Spoiler: 275+ issues worth of sperging

I tried starting from Stan Lee's original stories but they just didn't grab my interest; Daredevil felt like Dollar Store Spider-Man - witty acrobatic fighter with a sixth sense that closely guards his identity... except Daredevil lacked a good supporting cast with their own interesting subplots, the character development Peter gets, an interesting civilian life, and a good rogues gallery.

I did jump forward to Roy Thomas' run and read that, which went from #50-ish to around #70, and thought that was okay -- the most important thing that happens during Thomas' issues is that Karen Page learns about Matt being DD and then leaves the book for nearly 20 years until Frank Miller brought her back in Born Again. After I finished with Roy Thomas' run I jumped over to #124, the start of Marv Wolfman's run. In between 70 and 124 is roughly the era where Matt moves to San Francisco and starts a long lasting relationship with Black Widow. It never really caught my interest, which is why I skipped it. I've heard both that period and Stan Lee's stuff have good stories spread throughout them, so maybe day I'll read them.

Anyway, #124 - 167 were done by first Marv Wolfman, then Jim Shooter, and finally Roger McKenzie (with Frank Miller as the artist and, in the last few issues, co-plotter). There's a handful of good issues in that 43 issue period but still nothing really amazing, although it is a bit interesting that you can see Daredevil's trajectory being laid there as Wolfman, Shooter, and McKenzie made him focus more on urban crime and made the character progressively grittier. Daredevil was always a book that struggled and was constantly on the verge of cancellation, so (according to Jim himself) when Frank Miller approached Jim Shooter and said he could do something good with the book Shooter took a chance and let the young artist have it.

Miller's Daredevil run is still the gold standard for the character and out of the 275ish issues I've read nothing ever came close to it. He gave Daredevil his own identity, his own mythology, and actually did some interesting stuff with the whole lawyer thing, which was largely neglected for 99% of the stores up till then. As much as I love Miller's run here I've always felt like he left midway through whatever plots he had planned out. Regardless, Frank Miller took Daredevil from near death to being one of Marvel's top books.

Unfortunately, after Miller left, Marvel then proceeded to squander all that success over the next 20 years. Denny O'Neil becomes the main writer after Frank Miller leaves, going from about #194 - 226. That's roughly 32 issues of mediocrity. O'Neil largely keeps Daredevil's new broody ninja characterization but all of his plots mostly suck, doesn't make good use of any supporting characters, and doesn't do anything of note with the lawyer side of the character. Given O'Neil's success with Batman and with Miller having turned DD into a sort of Batman-esque character you'd think O'Neil would've been a good writer for the character... but, no, his run is entirely forgettable.

Frank Miller then returns to do Born Again, another seminal story for DD. That said, I've always thought the stuff with Nuke felt out of place and weird. Following Miller's brief return Ann Nocenti becomes the writer from #238 - 291. I've sperged about her run in depth here. After her Dan G. Chichester takes over the book, going from #292 - 332, though he does a couple of issues after that.

The first half of Chichester's run is decent, with him aping Frank Miller's style and tone pretty well, his first major story arc 'Last Rites' being a sort of sequel to Born Again. He's not as good a writer as Miller was and Dan G. tends to hellishly overwrite his narration boxes to the point of hurting the stories. His last good issue during his regular run was #318, immediately after that he begins the infamous Fall From Grace story. If you don't know what that is it was Marvel's attempt at reinventing Daredevil. Matt Murdock fakes his death, starts living as Jack Batlin, gets a new armored costume, and starts acting edgy. The arc feels like it goes on forever, has a ton of pointless guest stars (from Venom to Gambit) and is just a shit story altogether.

He then follows up that awful story arc with yet another shitty story arc called 'Tree of Knowledge'. I can't remember much from that arc and it blends together with the Fall From Grace one. They did a couple more stories (including another crappy story arc, this time by Gregory Wright) with Daredevil's new status quo before Marvel decided they wanted to revert everything.

To do this they brought in J.M. DeMatteis who wrote a story arc called Over the Edge. In it he reveals Matt's actually in the middle of a psychotic break and the 'Jack Batlin' identity is part of that. DeMatteis largely pulls it off pretty well, although he does present the idea that Daredevil is a multiple-murderer with some of the criminals he's beaten on having died from their injuries. It's implied in a small amount of text and nobody else has ever touched on this, so it's pretty easy to ignore. Oh, and the main villain for the story is a troon. Also important in this arc is that this is the story where Foggy Nelson finally finds out about Matt being Daredevil.

After DeMatteis finishes up the next main writer is Karl Kesel with #353. His biggest contribution to the book and Daredevil's lore is Rosalind Sharpe, Foggy's birth mother who is also a high class, well connected, and powerful lawyer who hires Matt and Foggy. Kesel also shifts gears on DD and brings him back in line with his classic Scarlet Swashbuckler days rather than the ninja noir that Miller made standard. His run ends with #364 and then Joe Kelly comes in and picks up right where Kesel left off, both in terms of on-going stories and tone with #365.

The Kesel & Kelly issues are actually pretty good. They make decent use of the support cast, subplots, and overarching plots that constantly tie stuff together. It's nothing really great or noteworthy but following the horrendous Jack Batlin stuff really elevates it. One important thing Joe Kelly does is tie Typhoid Mary in with Daredevil's origin story as presented in the 'Man Without Fear' mini. In that mini Matt accidentally knocks a prostitute out a window, believing that he killed her (which DeMatteis tied into his psychotic break in the Over the Edge arc); Joe Kelly reveals that the prostitute was actually Typhoid Mary when she was younger. I've seen people mixed over the revelation but honestly I don't really care.

Kelly's last issue is #375. I doubt that's where he wanted to end as there're lingering plot threads that get abandoned. The last story arc of v1 is by Scott Lobdell called 'Flying Blind' that goes from #376 - 379. It has a weird story - Matt gets recruited by SHILED for an undercover operation and program in a new identity into his mind - but it's entertaining and well done, plus it's a quick read being mostly action.

Finally, the last actual issue of volume one (until they renumber vol.2) is #380, written by Dan G. Chichester. It's nothing special, the plot of it is that some shady woman with ties to the military industrial complex hires the Kingpin to do fake terrorist attacks around the city so that America will go to war. Extra prescient is that Fisk frames a middle eastern guy for the attacks, who Murdock defends. That plot sounds better than how it turned out. What is nice is that in the final pages Murdock finally spends some time with his mother, Sister Maggie.

I'll start with volume two soon, which begins with Kevin Smith's Guardian Devil... which I remember thinking sucked when I read it years ago.

 

[Commander X]

Came across a copy of this bit of very 80s comics, in somewhat slightly battered condition, going for a few dollars as opposed to the $50 and up, up, up I've seen it on sale for...

Once upon a time Noble Comics was just another publisher trying to make their mark in the direct market back then. Starting in 1981, writer-artist Michael Gustovich through Noble published his series JUSTICE MACHINE, about a group of government agents/superheroes from the world of "Georwell" (get it) who made a dimensional jump to Earth in pursuit of a terrorist and came to realize they were not defenders of a utopia but agents of an oppressive system. Stuck on Earth after being branded as traitors, the series lasted five issues with Noble, the first three issues were published in magazine format, the latter two taking standard comic book dimensions before the strain of production became too great and Noble came to an end.

Their planned annual was instead licensed to upstart Texas Comics, started by several Texas-based comic book fans operating out of a comics retailer, who had worked together before on a fanzine and intended to publish Justice Machine on a bi-monthly schedule, along with Bill Willingham's Elementals, introduced here in a backup story. However this was the only issue of theirs that came to market, and both Justice Machine and The Elementals ended up being published by Comico.

The Silver Age co-creations of Wally Wood, sort of a "superheroes meet Man from UNCLE" hero group called the THUNDER Agents (The Higher United Nations Defense Enforcement Reserves) appeared thanks to Gustavich and company approaching advertising accountant and comics super-fan turned semi-pro John Carbonaro, who had bought the rights to the THUNDER Agents for a couple of grand from Tower Publications. They came to with with the idea of including the Agents in a crossover with Justice Machine, which he approved of.

Carbonaro had attempted his own relaunch of the series under the JC Comics banner after reaching an arrangement with Archie Comics to print and distribute. As part of his deal he'd been working on Archie's early 80s relaunch of their Red Circle line of superheroes and had proposed a crossover between THUNDER and Archie's Mighty Crusaders to promote both titles but it never came to fruition - the Archie bigwigs' had made it clear that Red Circle was a higher priority with them. Due to various convoluted circumstances JC Comics only published two issues of the new THUNDER Agents, with a complete third issue that was printed in Archie's Blue Ribbon anthology series thanks to a deal Carbonaro worked out with Archie.

The whole story of the T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents in the 80s is itself convoluted and sordid, and covered extensively in TwoMorrows Publishings "THUNDER Agents Companion". Including the old story of how in the 80s with the Direct Market and all people thought comics were a great way to make money.

David Singer, a self professed Agents fan ingratiated himself with Carbonaro and managed to help all but kill off the Agents as a viable set of characters. Singer had a law degree but had never taken the Bar exam. Still, he presented himself as a partner in Carbonaro’s publishing company and then as his legal representative and according to Carbonaro utilized his inside knowledge of the dealings between Carbonaro and Tower Publishing in an attempt to assume ownership of the characters. When that didn't work, Singer claimed that the Agents existed in the public domain, even doing so in a press release about how "All God's Children" could publish the Agents, and started his own publisher, Deluxe Comics, to print a "Wally Wood's THUNDER Agents" series with a lot of hoopla.

Singer apparently thought he could start a company that could compete with DC and Marvel in the Direct Market and had gotten Wall Street investors behind him. He wanted to start off by making a big splash and saw the Agents as a tool for grabbing publicity and readers. So he was throwing the money around and offering double the usual rate for scripters and artists, which brought in some heavy talent: Dave Cockrum, Keith Giffen, George Perez, Steve Ditko, Steve Englehart, Jerry Ordway, etc.

Deluxe's Agents lasted five issues and during this the lawsuits were flying. Carbonaro sued Singer for copyright infringement in 1984, beginning what turned out to be a nasty and drawn out legal battle that lasted three years and rocked the industry. In the fan press, Singer was presenting the idea that the THUNDER Agents were in the public domain. Behind the scenes, he was hemorrhaging money and being shifty. Cockrum - who would describe Singer as coming off like a used car salesman - ended up only turning in work for cash because his checks were bouncing. Cockrum left, in part due to other commitments but also due to said bounced checks. (Cockrum also said after he'd left Deluxe that Keith Giffen saw Cockrum's original artwork in Singer's office and walked out with it, daring Singer to stop him, and returned the artwork to Cockrum). Perez also moved on, due to other commitments on work he cared more about.

Carbonaro kept pressing his case, producing the paper trails showing ownership. Eventually, a judge ruled that Carbonaro was the owner in 1987. As part of the suit, he acquired all of the T.H.U.N.D.E.R. material that Singer had published. By then, Deluxe Comics was out of business due in part to Singer's shady dealings, ineptitidue and failure to pay his creators on time or what he'd promised them. He vanished from the comics scene, owing a lot of people money (in another grand comics tradition).

 

[Jetpack Himmler]

Looks like DC is in deep shit as 48 of their top 50 books are Batman or Batman-adjacent titles.

 

[GranDuke]

Company is in deep shit because it is publishing titles that are selling.

I have watched the video and I didn't understand where he even got that 2 out of Top 50 thing. Feels like he mixed up Top 50 with DC Top 50 at some point.

 

[Jetpack Himmler]

Company is in deep shit because it is publishing titles that are selling.

Or alternatively, using the Batman titles as a crutch and heaven help DC if the market kicks that out from them. It's actually a bit troubling when DC can't even get Superman to crack the Top 50.

 

[PrincessHomura]

Or alternatively, using the Batman titles as a crutch and heaven help DC if the market kicks that out from them. It's actually a bit troubling when DC can't even get Superman to crack the Top 50.

They put fucking Bendis on the book when it was getting received better than it had for years, maybe even a decade or more. It'd be more shocking if it was in the top 50.

 

[GranDuke]

Or alternatively, using the Batman titles as a crutch and heaven help DC if the market kicks that out from them. It's actually a bit troubling when DC can't even get Superman to crack the Top 50.

Was it less troubling in November when Superman and Action made Top 50?

On a more serious note Superman for decades now doesn't have a strong presence in TOP 50 and shit direction might push it out of Top 50 entirely. For example, during New 52's end (Truth and depowered Superman) he was on the edge of Top 50 as well. And well, it is well established at this point that not that many people like current direction.

They put fucking Bendis on the book when it was getting received better than it had for years, maybe even a decade or more. It'd be more shocking if it was in the top 50.

Bendis was in Top 50 all the time.

 

[PrincessHomura]

Was it less troubling in November when Superman and Action made Top 50?

On a more serious note Superman for decades now doesn't have a strong presence in TOP 50 and shit direction might push it out of Top 50 entirely. For example, during New 52's end (Truth and depowered Superman) he was on the edge of Top 50 as well. And well, it is well established at this point that not that many people like current direction.



Bendis was in Top 50 all the time.

Was being the operative word. I don't know anyone in comics as universally disliked as he is.

 

[jspit2.0]

Was being the operative word. I don't know anyone in comics as universally disliked as he is.

DC was fucking up superman long before Bendis.

Though, it was one of those insider outsider/splits where pros don't have a clue what actual fans think.

I'm a huge Superman fan. I would never read anything Bendis writes.

 

[JimiHendrix]

feel like superman was doing really well before bendis.

i really enjoyed the tomasi/gleason family stuff, even if some of it was weird like the bizarro robin shit.

 

[Commander X]

Among my other recent purchases was an IDW collection of a series they'd published a "continuation" of back in the Aughts, one of the rarest birds of titles seen in comics, whodunits, i.e. detective stories, with clues fairly presented to the reader, while the stars of the book solved the mysteries each issue. It was The Maze Agency. Originally published by Comico the series was the creation of Mike W. Barr. This was some time after he'd come off of an acclaimed run on Detective Comics including Batman: Year Two, Batman: Son of the Demon, and a run on Batman and the Outsiders. One notable thing about Barr's Batman work was emphasis on his detective skills. Barr had come to Comico with the idea for a detective series and he wanted to do it in the tradition of Dashiell Hammett and Ellery Queen. Indeed, one issue featured a crossover with Golden Age literary sleuth Queen in celebration of the character's 60th anniversary, with permission from Ellery Queen Mystery Magazine. The IDW collection consists of the first five issues and a special issue.

His series focused on Jennifer Mays and Gabriel Webb, one of the more interesting couples in comics. Jennifer is a former poor little rich girl and disillusioned ex-CIA agent who went into private investigations, setting up the titular agency. Gabe Webb is her boyfriend, a true-crime writer toiling at writing for lurid magazines, who's also an amateur sleuth with a brilliant deductive mind who is always willing to lend her a hand on intriguing cases. However, he doesn't believe in mixing romance and business and turns down her repeated offers to hire him as a consultant as inappropriate.

Their relationship, complete with witty back-and-forth banter was the foundation of the series. It feels like a real relationship, suitably adult, and their differences make them an interesting combination. She's an impeccable dresser, he tends to wear old jeans and sweatshirts. She rarely has a hair out of place, he often needs a shave. She works out regularly and drives a vintage '55 Corvette, he's a couch potato, bookworm and drives a clunker of many colors. And when it's necessary, she's ready for action while he'd prefer to call the police.
Their relationship develops from the status quo early in the series and was free of any drawn out "will they or won't they" shenanigans.

Other regular characters included NYPD Lt. Bobbi Bliss, who was irritated by the way they ended up getting mixed up in homicides but recognized their talents and Ashley Swift of Swift Investigations, Mays' former employer turned rival who led a bigger PI agency, was much richer and was "intrigued" by Gabe.

Now, the artist on the early issues was none other than a rookie-stage Adam Hughes, with only a few jobs under his belt at the time and this is probably one of the books that helped build his rep.

Spoiler

Just as the series was building momentum and attention, after seven issues, Comico went bankrupt in 1990. Fortunately, rescue came in the form of Dave Campiti's Innovation Publishing. However, Hughes got big offers to work in mainstream comics and he took them. He still did covers; but, the interior art was handed over to other hands, though Rick Magyar stayed as inker.

At Innovation, the series continued from issues 8-23, and then Innovation ran into cash flow problems, which led to bankruptcy. After being published in a one-shot anthology, the series returned in '97 for a three-issue series at Caliber Comics, with art by Gene Gonzales that was consistent with the original series. Another three-issue series was published by IDW in '05 and the stories were decent but the art was pretty "eh".

 

[Alexander Thaut]

man i miss it when the x-men was a soap opera with superheroes placed in morally compromising situations.

 

[Registration]

man i miss it when the x-men was a soap opera with superheroes placed in morally compromising situations.

I really fucking hate X-Men even back then.

it being shit nowadays just makes me happy. X-men is a concept that just doesn't work in marvel context

 

[Boston Brand]

Icemaiden's stuff seemed like it could have fit into some ploy involving any one of a number of fucked up brainwash/mind control schemes. Like if they had said that she was a deep cover brainwashed Queen Bee spy/agent, it would have been believable.

they did what

man the year before Flashpoint was weird.

DC's always had a doorway into using Norse myth for stuff before (Viking Prince), but early 90s stuff was always wasted potential in DC.

Dunno how to feel about human target getting attention.

I really enjoyed it when Tora got revived and Guy Gardner got back with her.

hell, Guy Gardner's 90s shenanigans make total sense if you remember that Guy had major brain damage. I found it funny that they kept giving him the Green Lantern lore leftovers like Sinestro's ring and whatnot. He then turned into a vuldarian or w/e? Some last of his kind alien?

I swear to God that 90s Guy Gardner was just an acid trip. Man scammed Lobo, fought the Weaponeers of Qward, and did it all while under brain damage. I think the only notable things to happen in the guy gardner: warrior series was Arisa's death (the orange green lantern chick) and the founding of the Warriors Bar (which has popped up as notable DC location over the years).

then guy died during the Imperiex event? it's not too clear.

Dude's one of my favorite classic superheroes for a reason. I hope that we see more of him in the future because he's just a really fun character.

In 2005, during the event that had Hal coming back to life and reclaiming the GL title, Guy's body rejected his Vuldarian DNA and he became a full-on regular human. Then he got a ring and has been a GL since. He courted Tora when she came back from the dead, but she asked him for some space and time since she was dealing with being alive again and rebuilding her life.

He's been doing a lot of bass-ass stuff since, like joining a GL black ops team, becoming a Red Lantern, and fist-fighting giant jacked aliens without aid of a ring. He's eased up on his asshole behavior, but he still doesn't give any fucks whatsoever (he once mooned Batman in front of the whole JLA)

Winnick has stated outright that his retcon for Ice was going to be permanent and was one of the straws that cost him the writing gig on JLI when Flashpoint happened (as the title was going to happen after Brightest Day but got reworked), as far as backlashes towards Generation Lost making DC give the gig to Jurgens; who I should note outright ignored Winnick's retcon and wrote Ice as she normally was written.

Also, Guy was supposed to have been killed in Our Worlds At War but the backlash that he got such a lousy death was such that DC had him show up afterwards, retconning it to Blue Beetle freaking out and Guy only being wounded.

That said, Beau Smith's Guy Gardner run is really good even with Guy looking like a rave painted Chippendale Dancer.

Unpopular opinion, but Guy Gardner was way more interesting as Warrior than he is as one of 6-7 human green lanterns. Gardner is appealing as a hero because he's unique in terms of DC Comics - ie, he's an egotistical fight-happy dick. In any other scenario he'd be a villain, but he fights for the good guys. Plus, the pulp action hero with his own bar and posse thing Beau Smith was a ton of fun, editorial interference be damned.

Hell, 90s DC cosmic order was way more interesting too. Lobo, the Darkstars, New Gods, Kyle as the last Green Lantern, and Hal Jordan's pedophile ass as a supervillain is the only time he's ever been interesting. Give me all that wild stuff over space pretty much exclusively being the Rainbow Brite Lantern Corps any day.

Never let anyone say everything about 90s comics sucked.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Unpopular opinion, but Guy Gardner was way more interesting as Warrior than he is as one of 6-7 human green lanterns. Gardner is appealing as a hero because he's unique in terms of DC Comics - ie, he's an egotistical fight-happy dick. In any other scenario he'd be a villain, but he fights for the good guys. Plus, the pulp action hero with his own bar and posse thing Beau Smith was a ton of fun, editorial interference be damned.

yeah Guy Gardner still manages to be beloved and it's a shame he doesn't get much these days.

Hell, 90s DC cosmic order was way more interesting too. Lobo, the Darkstars, New Gods, Kyle as the last Green Lantern, and Hal Jordan's pedophile ass as a supervillain is the only time he's ever been interesting. Give me all that wild stuff over space pretty much exclusively being the Rainbow Brite Lantern Corps any day.

Never let anyone say everything about 90s comics sucked.

Cosmic DC in the 90s was pretty interesting. Darkstars had a weird thing about getting homeless people involved in fights or something? I forget.

But the LOSH stuff was always interesting. Vril Dox's L.E.G.I.O.N. wasn't bad. New Gods had some fun stuff like the Godwave and Cosmic Odyssey (anyone remember John Stewart blowing up a planet?)

Also Valor if anyone remembers him.


the whole geoff johns GL stuff ran its course in the 00s and it really didn't have anywhere to do after Blackest Night.

 

[MirrorNoir]

The Godwave/Genesis X-Over is widely reviled as is most of the post New Gods V3 (the 1989-1991 series) stuff up until Orion. Byrne's New God stuff is pretty god-awful save for his Kanto origin story as he fucked ups shit just because he could (such as saying Mr Miracle and Barda had been on Earth since the late 1800s) and because of his god-awful autism (retconning Darkseid having been born in a human form because he got triggered someone at DC jokingly suggested they do a "little Darkseid" gag strip).

Cosmic Odyssey is something that is super polarizing: it's retcon about the Anti-Life Equation was overturned almost immediately afterwords and in the case of Orion, a LOT of Orion fanboys DESPISE CO because it started the characteristics of Orion being an irredeemable cunt who stole Mr Miracle's life and who is only kept around by Highfather as an attack dog and doesn't even deserve THAT honor, in terms of being a piece of shit. Ironically, while most Mr. Miracle fans took to Starlin's portrayal of Orion, Starlin actually HATES Mr Miracle and hence why Death of the New Gods was one big break the cutie type tale with Scott being driven to the brink of madness and ultimately allowing himself to be killed by the Source.

Also, LEGION is the best DC cosmic book of the 90s and it's still insane as hell that it's never been reprinted whatsoever. Maybe one day it can get a compendium release if not hardcover.

 

[Boston Brand]

The Godwave/Genesis X-Over is widely reviled as is most of the post New Gods V3 (the 1989-1991 series) stuff up until Orion. Byrne's New God stuff is pretty god-awful save for his Kanto origin story as he fucked ups shit just because he could (such as saying Mr Miracle and Barda had been on Earth since the late 1800s) and because of his god-awful autism (retconning Darkseid having been born in a human form because he got triggered someone at DC jokingly suggested they do a "little Darkseid" gag strip).

Cosmic Odyssey is something that is super polarizing: it's retcon about the Anti-Life Equation was overturned almost immediately afterwords and in the case of Orion, a LOT of Orion fanboys DESPISE CO because it started the characteristics of Orion being an irredeemable cunt who stole Mr Miracle's life and who is only kept around by Highfather as an attack dog and doesn't even deserve THAT honor, in terms of being a piece of shit. Ironically, while most Mr. Miracle fans took to Starlin's portrayal of Orion, Starlin actually HATES Mr Miracle and hence why Death of the New Gods was one big break the cutie type tale with Scott being driven to the brink of madness and ultimately allowing himself to be killed by the Source.

Also, LEGION is the best DC cosmic book of the 90s and it's still insane as hell that it's never been reprinted whatsoever. Maybe one day it can get a compendium release if not hardcover.

Honestly damned little of anything from the 90s gets reprinted, even popular stuff like Lobo or Steel, even Aquaman, Flash and Green Lanturn only got a TPB or two each. And cult stuff like Sovereign Seven? Forget it, you can't even get digitals sometimes.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Honestly damned little of anything from the 90s gets reprinted, even popular stuff like Lobo or Steel, even Aquaman, Flash and Green Lanturn only got a TPB or two each. And cult stuff like Sovereign Seven? Forget it, you can't even get digitals sometimes.

iirc they were gonna reprint all of the Gerard Jones Justice League stuff until he got arrested for uh. . .

Gerard Jones Sentenced to 6 Years in Jail on Child Pornography Charges

Gerard Jones, long-standing comic book writer, was sentenced yesterday by a San Francisco court to six years in federal prison on child pornography charges.

bleedingcool.com

. . . for child porn charges ofc.

apparently DC ain't gonna print his stuff? It's a shame because Green Lantern: Mosaic was a fun idea, his JLA stuff had interesting moments, his Martian Manhunter stuff was decentish iirc, and whatnot.

THough I do wonder if any pedophilic shit is in his old work now that I think about it.