Sperg about comic books here

[DaBigBopper]

@BeepBoopBeepBoop

I think the Krakoa era would have worked best as a thing like right before/after AvX when the status of mutants was a limited number but also uncertain it'd grow. Krakoa era popping now just doesn't have the narrative weight for anything. Like shit happens but it's kinda just nu-marvel being neutered every time something interesting comes up.

all it's done now is succeed in making Xavier more or a less worse than Magneto in some ways.

Issue with Krakoa is that Marvel post Dark Reign had no clue where to go. Utopia was neat, but honestly Hope Summers was shit. I hate time travel unless you address the paradox bullshit like the first Terminator or go balls to the walls crazy where time travelling breaks fucking reality when it starts getting used. The minute you do that shit you make it so multiple events happen, multiple outcomes, and people are both alive and dead. It's also why I hate Krakoa, there's no element of chaos to fuck with Moira's plans beyond using a clairvoyant, and Inferno's entire story of getting to that was dumb.

Krakoa is just Utopia, but worse in that every character has been stripped of their own agency for a really boring central plot and uninspired side plots. I liked Mercury because she's someone who's entire character was her mutation sucked. She didn't need to eat, drink, or sleep. She literally lost senses and despite wanting to be cured of a power that would be a disability, but despite this she generally tried not to negatively effect people around her. She actually tried being friends with Laura when Emma and a lot of the school hated her. I think a few years they made her into a lesbian into an issue where a dyke student basically stalks and shames her into being her gf, but the larger point is that Mercury probably would take a cure or use an inhibitor to turn her back to a normal girl if it was offered by someone not evil with no ulterior motives.

Utopia had proper set-up where they were few in number and Norman Osborn was actually crazy enough to make concentration camps to make Magneto piss his sheets. I didn't love that era, but I did like Emma slowly realizing that Scott was going fucking nuts from the pressure to the point where he basically was willing to do an old Magneto plot and turn people against their will into mutants. Despite hating Aaron I didn't hate the idea of two schools, and despite using some of the worst fucking characters. AvX was shit and ruined the idea of that and then came Bendis.

Nu-Marvel is mostly just the every dying industry losing people to porn art, realizing that legacy media doesn't have the same audience, and that it's easier to go independent. Marvel being women, brown women, and fat-titted men is mostly due to CRA legislation basically paying them to do so and the fat guys are basically the guy from Eltingville. I still bitch about this stuff so I'm not much better, but a lot of it is because Weeb shit does a better job and I envy the fact that they have a healthy comic industry.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Issue with Krakoa is that Marvel post Dark Reign had no clue where to go. Utopia was neat, but honestly Hope Summers was shit. I hate time travel unless you address the paradox bullshit like the first Terminator or go balls to the walls crazy where time travelling breaks fucking reality when it starts getting used. The minute you do that shit you make it so multiple events happen, multiple outcomes, and people are both alive and dead. It's also why I hate Krakoa, there's no element of chaos to fuck with Moira's plans beyond using a clairvoyant, and Inferno's entire story of getting to that was dumb.

Krakoa is just Utopia, but worse in that every character has been stripped of their own agency for a really boring central plot and uninspired side plots. I liked Mercury because she's someone who's entire character was her mutation sucked. She didn't need to eat, drink, or sleep. She literally lost senses and despite wanting to be cured of a power that would be a disability, but despite this she generally tried not to negatively effect people around her. She actually tried being friends with Laura when Emma and a lot of the school hated her. I think a few years they made her into a lesbian into an issue where a dyke student basically stalks and shames her into being her gf, but the larger point is that Mercury probably would take a cure or use an inhibitor to turn her back to a normal girl if it was offered by someone not evil with no ulterior motives.

Utopia had proper set-up where they were few in number and Norman Osborn was actually crazy enough to make concentration camps to make Magneto piss his sheets. I didn't love that era, but I did like Emma slowly realizing that Scott was going fucking nuts from the pressure to the point where he basically was willing to do an old Magneto plot and turn people against their will into mutants. Despite hating Aaron I didn't hate the idea of two schools, and despite using some of the worst fucking characters. AvX was shit and ruined the idea of that and then came Bendis.

Nu-Marvel is mostly just the every dying industry losing people to porn art, realizing that legacy media doesn't have the same audience, and that it's easier to go independent. Marvel being women, brown women, and fat-titted men is mostly due to CRA legislation basically paying them to do so and the fat guys are basically the guy from Eltingville. I still bitch about this stuff so I'm not much better, but a lot of it is because Weeb shit does a better job and I envy the fact that they have a healthy comic industry.

honestly marvel post Dark Reign shoulda went all in on the Heroic Age era for a while longer, but they kinda scrapped that too fast imo.

 

[Water-T]

@MirrorNoir said: But in general, the isolation of the X-Men comes at the price of Marvel not wanting the rest of the super hero community bailing the X-Men out along with the toxic SJW types who want Emma and Scott to be smug and fix everything wrong with mutantkind themselves.

It kind of made sense for the X-Men to stay out of it. When Tony tried to court Emma, she pointed out that the US government and all the heroes did fuck-all when 16 million mutants died at Genosha. Plus the government tried to do similar registration shit on mutants, so the X gang already had to deal that bullshit and let the flatscans see how they like them apples.

@MirrorNoir said: So he took over Earth 2, crashing sales to the toilet as the JSA were shoved into the background and the book became all about Thomas Wayme, Dick Grayson, Barbara Gordon, Lois Lane (who Taylor brought back by putting her brain into a female Red Tornado body), and Black Superman replacement that was fighting an evil Zombie Earth 2 Superman who worked for Darkseid. He killed one of the few DECENT New 52 books so gruesomely, that DC ended up having to destroy Earth 2 itself and move the survivors to an alien world which they terraformed into a duplicate of pre-war New 52 Earth 2 as a last minute deal to try and salvage shit only for Taylor to have irrevocably fucking shit up.

Sometimes restarting a book's cast from scratch can work - like X-Force did in issue 115 - but other times it can suuuuuck, like with Thunderbolts going from a team book to some crap about wrestlers in issue 76. That situation sounds like the latter.

 

[DaBigBopper]

@MirrorNoir said: But in general, the isolation of the X-Men comes at the price of Marvel not wanting the rest of the super hero community bailing the X-Men out along with the toxic SJW types who want Emma and Scott to be smug and fix everything wrong with mutantkind themselves.

It kind of made sense for the X-Men to stay out of it. When Tony tried to court Emma, she pointed out that the US government and all the heroes did fuck-all when 16 million mutants died at Genosha. Plus the government tried to do similar registration shit on mutants, so the X gang already had to deal that bullshit and let the flatscans see how they like them apples.

From what I remember about Genosha, the Avengers had literally fought Magneto previously on Genosha right before he pulled an ethnic cleansing on the island, I think it was vaguely mentioned that at the time Genosha happened the Ultron did some bullshit and then the Kang Dynasty happened. Morrison is a prima donna from what I'm aware and basically demanded to be allowed to fuck with other writers shit (like wanting to have the FF be an incestuous orgy), but he didn't have the same pull at Marvel as he did at DC. Genosha and Magneto doing a new Holocaust was him throwing a tantrum.

I hated Genosha as a setting. It was just Claremont's magical realm and having Magneto rule it was a cop out. Magneto isn't really Doom, Doom is entertaining because he's a manchild playing dress-up and under good writers his rivalry with Reed is basically just autism/ jealously. Doom actually gets called out and writers can just ham it up rather than going 'The Holocaust happened, I mean 16 million.... 6 million.... what's the difference?'

 

[Alexander Thaut]

From what I remember about Genosha, the Avengers had literally fought Magneto previously on Genosha right before he pulled an ethnic cleansing on the island, I think it was vaguely mentioned that at the time Genosha happened the Ultron did some bullshit and then the Kang Dynasty happened. Morrison is a prima donna from what I'm aware and basically demanded to be allowed to fuck with other writers shit (like wanting to have the FF be an incestuous orgy), but he didn't have the same pull at Marvel as he did at DC. Genosha and Magneto doing a new Holocaust was him throwing a tantrum.

f4 being an incestuous orgy just sounds like johnny fucking sue and I don't think that'd work nowadays.

or uh

I hope you didn't mean johnny, sue, or reed fucking the kids.

I hated Genosha as a setting. It was just Claremont's magical realm and having Magneto rule it was a cop out. Magneto isn't really Doom, Doom is entertaining because he's a manchild playing dress-up and under good writers his rivalry with Reed is basically just autism/ jealously. Doom actually gets called out and writers can just ham it up rather than going 'The Holocaust happened, I mean 16 million.... 6 million.... what's the difference?'

yeah Magneto pulling an ethnic cleansing just doesn't really work unless he's specifically extremist unhinged levels, which have happened IIRC? I know marvel retcons his powers affecting his mind asfaik.
Magneto should have just reverted to being a redemption seeking hero permanently with Xavier being an ironic extremist. It's a fun idea.


Doom is always fun.

 

[Fleetwood]

From what I remember about Genosha, the Avengers had literally fought Magneto previously on Genosha right before he pulled an ethnic cleansing on the island, I think it was vaguely mentioned that at the time Genosha happened the Ultron did some bullshit and then the Kang Dynasty happened. Morrison is a prima donna from what I'm aware and basically demanded to be allowed to fuck with other writers shit (like wanting to have the FF be an incestuous orgy), but he didn't have the same pull at Marvel as he did at DC. Genosha and Magneto doing a new Holocaust was him throwing a tantrum.

I hated Genosha as a setting. It was just Claremont's magical realm and having Magneto rule it was a cop out. Magneto isn't really Doom, Doom is entertaining because he's a manchild playing dress-up and under good writers his rivalry with Reed is basically just autism/ jealously. Doom actually gets called out and writers can just ham it up rather than going 'The Holocaust happened, I mean 16 million.... 6 million.... what's the difference?'

If Morrison is being paid to write for some company they better be down with O.P.P... yeah you know me. Even throwaway characters get exploited later on, just look at Deadpool. Why would -they- write a new character for free for them when -they- could screw with some z-list guys. That is what made Animal Man as well as Sandman, Shade, and other proto-vertigo books interesting. Now this deconstructionist meta that used to be "adult" is the norm. Magneto being a genocidal maniac that is in favor of mutant supremacy would be somewhat on point (not a deconstruction) compared to the original Jack Kirby books and the X-Men Animated Series. Plus, wow any comic fan calling out a character as being an autistic manchild is something else.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

If Morrison is being paid to write for some company they better be down with O.P.P... yeah you know me. Even throwaway characters get exploited later on, just look at Deadpool. Why would -they- write a new character for free for them when -they- could screw with some z-list guys. That is what made Animal Man as well as Sandman, Shade, and other proto-vertigo books interesting. Now this deconstructionist meta that used to be "adult" is the norm. Magneto being a genocidal maniac that is in favor of mutant supremacy would be somewhat on point (not a deconstruction) compared to the original Jack Kirby books and the X-Men Animated Series. Plus, wow any comic fan calling out a character as being an autistic manchild is something else.

to be fair, many supervillains seem to be autistic manchildren on some level.

just look at Lex Luthor, The Riddler, Penguin, etc.

Name me a villain that isn't an autistic manchild of some sort at heart. Even stuff like Ras Al Ghul gets kinda autistic/spergy for being a quasi-immortal eco-terrorist that seems to channel Ted Kaczynski on steroids but fails to realize there's probably some sort of magic/sci-fi solution in DC.

Darkseid chasing the anti-life equation was like CWC's lovequest.

 

[MirrorNoir]

From what I remember about Genosha, the Avengers had literally fought Magneto previously on Genosha right before he pulled an ethnic cleansing on the island, I think it was vaguely mentioned that at the time Genosha happened the Ultron did some bullshit and then the Kang Dynasty happened. Morrison is a prima donna from what I'm aware and basically demanded to be allowed to fuck with other writers shit (like wanting to have the FF be an incestuous orgy), but he didn't have the same pull at Marvel as he did at DC. Genosha and Magneto doing a new Holocaust was him throwing a tantrum.

I hated Genosha as a setting. It was just Claremont's magical realm and having Magneto rule it was a cop out. Magneto isn't really Doom, Doom is entertaining because he's a manchild playing dress-up and under good writers his rivalry with Reed is basically just autism/ jealously. Doom actually gets called out and writers can just ham it up rather than going 'The Holocaust happened, I mean 16 million.... 6 million.... what's the difference?'

I should note that with Morrison's run is super hard to line up with the rest of the Marvel run because of the fact that when Chris Claremont came back the year prior, he did a massive one year later timeskip from the end of the Twelve/Powerless arc and the start of his run along with another time skip between the filler Lobdell run and the start of the Casey/Morrison run and X-treme X-Men #1.

It's been suggested that Genosha being destroyed takes place AFTER Kang Dynasty, which would explain why the X-Men never mention the destruction of that storyline and possibly why Xavier is suddenly recruiting students again; the destruction from Kang galvanized him to start up the school again given by that point he knew Emma had killed her sister and was backsliding into her villainous ways.

Also, Claremont's version of Genosha is NOT the version where Magneto is involved in any way shape or form.

Claremont's Genosha was basically the culmination of all of his sexual perversions wrapped up in a huge anti-South Africa metaphor. It's an all white island of Africans who outright ENSLAVE their mutant population by permanently sealing them up into zentai suits, some of which have opened face hoods and some no hoods and in the later, their heads are shaven and both types having numbers carved into their foreheads. They are then mindwiped and brainwashed into being mindless slaves, becoming chattel labor where their mutant powers are exploited for the state. Oh and the state also making exceptions for certain mutants who are children of the Genoshan elites who have combat abilities deemed useful, who get to stay unmolested and untouched in exchange for serving as the Genoshan stormtroopers who are tasked with killing if not dragging back screaming and kicking, any mutant that tries to escape Genosha.

Magneto didn't become tied to Genosha until late 90s when editorial forced Joe Kelly and Steve Seagle to put Magneto in charge of Genosha (which after being liberated by the X-Men, New Mutants, and X-Factor in the Xtinction Agenda, had fallen into bloody civil war during the Bloodlines X-Over between the X-Men and Avengers, as a metaphor for the Balkans) largely for the sake of having a place to warehouse Magneto now that he was back as a villain. And outside the black sun mini, Claremont never touched Genosha again before it was destroyed.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

I should note that with Morrison's run is super hard to line up with the rest of the Marvel run because of the fact that when Chris Claremont came back the year prior, he did a massive one year later timeskip from the end of the Twelve/Powerless arc and the start of his run along with another time skip between the filler Lobdell run and the start of the Casey/Morrison run and X-treme X-Men #1.

It's been suggested that Genosha being destroyed takes place AFTER Kang Dynasty, which would explain why the X-Men never mention the destruction of that storyline and possibly why Xavier is suddenly recruiting students again; the destruction from Kang galvanized him to start up the school again given by that point he knew Emma had killed her sister and was backsliding into her villainous ways.

Also, Claremont's version of Genosha is NOT the version where Magneto is involved in any way shape or form.

Claremont's Genosha was basically the culmination of all of his sexual perversions wrapped up in a huge anti-South Africa metaphor. It's an all white island of Africans who outright ENSLAVE their mutant population by permanently sealing them up into zentai suits, some of which have opened face hoods and some no hoods and in the later, their heads are shaven and both types having numbers carved into their foreheads. They are then mindwiped and brainwashed into being mindless slaves, becoming chattel labor where their mutant powers are exploited for the state. Oh and the state also making exceptions for certain mutants who are children of the Genoshan elites who have combat abilities deemed useful, who get to stay unmolested and untouched in exchange for serving as the Genoshan stormtroopers who are tasked with killing if not dragging back screaming and kicking, any mutant that tries to escape Genosha.

Magneto didn't become tied to Genosha until late 90s when editorial forced Joe Kelly and Steve Seagle to put Magneto in charge of Genosha (which after being liberated by the X-Men, New Mutants, and X-Factor in the Xtinction Agenda, had fallen into bloody civil war during the Bloodlines X-Over between the X-Men and Avengers, as a metaphor for the Balkans) largely for the sake of having a place to warehouse Magneto now that he was back as a villain. And outside the black sun mini, Claremont never touched Genosha again before it was destroyed.

ngl i lowkey wish they'd kept Genosha around but they even sank the island during the time Marvel was fighting Fox Studios.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Don't know if it went into the comics or was just a part of games and live action series, but I fucking hate the "Batman's dad was actually a bad guy who built himself a very good image".
It's just lazy, needlessly cynical and reeks of the writer having a father complex.
It doesn't expand the world, it doesn't add a conflict since the guy is long dead, it's not even a new variation on villains.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Don't know if it went into the comics or was just a part of games and live action series, but I fucking hate the "Batman's dad was actually a bad guy who built himself a very good image".
It's just lazy, needlessly cynical and reeks of the writer having a father complex.
It doesn't expand the world, it doesn't add a conflict since the guy is long dead, it's not even a new variation on villains.

it happened in the Joker movie and I don't think it's happened anywhere else that's relevant.


agreed, it's boring.

 

[Water-T]

It's been suggested that Genosha being destroyed takes place AFTER Kang Dynasty, which would explain why the X-Men never mention the destruction of that storyline and possibly why Xavier is suddenly recruiting students again; the destruction from Kang galvanized him to start up the school again given by that point he knew Emma had killed her sister and was backsliding into her villainous ways.

After Generation X got cancelled, it ended with Emma taking an offer, which ended up with her teaching at Genosha when it got nuked.

Morrison WANTED Colossus, but he was still considered dead at the time, so he just picked Emma and gave her that diamond body "secondary mutation" as a reason why she survived, and it let her be the fill-in for Piotr.

I wonder how Morrison felt when just a few years later, Joss Whedon was given the greenlight to bring Piotr back from the dead. Must have made his biscuits burn that he didn't get to use Colossus but Whedon got him on a silver platter.

 

[Red Hood]

to be fair, many supervillains seem to be autistic manchildren on some level.

just look at Lex Luthor, The Riddler, Penguin, etc.

Name me a villain that isn't an autistic manchild of some sort at heart. Even stuff like Ras Al Ghul gets kinda autistic/spergy for being a quasi-immortal eco-terrorist that seems to channel Ted Kaczynski on steroids but fails to realize there's probably some sort of magic/sci-fi solution in DC.

Darkseid chasing the anti-life equation was like CWC's lovequest.

From now on I'm reading Darkseid as having Chris-Chan's voice, thanks.

it happened in the Joker movie and I don't think it's happened anywhere else that's relevant.


agreed, it's boring.

It also apparently happened in the Telltale Batman video game. Apparently because who the fuck has played a Telltale game since TWD ended.

I always feel the same way about Pa Kent being altered into anything but a good all-American dad.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

From now on I'm reading Darkseid as having Chris-Chan's voice, thanks.

To be fair I'm talking about older pre-2000s Darkseid when he still did comedic things like show up on people's couches with figurines. He used to sometimes have that sense of goofiness and campiness that I'd only ever felt when reading Dr. Doom.

It also apparently happened in the Telltale Batman video game. Apparently because who the fuck has played a Telltale game since TWD ended.

I always feel the same way about Pa Kent being altered into anything but a good all-American dad.

I can't recall Pa Kent being anything but a classic good dad.


Wonder what other comic villains could be fun to read in lolcow voices. I'm betting Doc Ock in DSP's voice is fitting.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

It also apparently happened in the Telltale Batman video game. Apparently because who the fuck has played a Telltale game since TWD ended.

I always feel the same way about Pa Kent being altered into anything but a good all-American dad.

Wasn't it also on the Gotham tv series? I'm actually surprised the comics didn't take it.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Wasn't it also on the Gotham tv series? I'm actually surprised the comics didn't take it.

the comics have had some implications that Gotham and the Wayne family have historically had some really fucked up things, but it's never painted Thomas to be a full villain. rather, it leaves the door opened for the usual "super-elites get into morally compromising stuff".

 

[Tor Lugosi]

I get the feeling the upcoming The Batman film might try to do it. The trailer seem to hint at the Wayne family having been a part of something bad that the Riddler is trying to expose.

 

[GranDuke]

It is bound to happen sooner rather than later. Being rich is a sin, unless you have correct political opinions.

 

[Registration]

Go West young man was really good, anthology interlinked series about the mkurica old west

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

Preordered the Catwoman omnibus.