Sperg about comic books here

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
I'll always defend the Krakoa era, in so far as I find the core story and books very interesting, the most interesting the X-Men have been in a long, long time (aside from small flare ups of quality like Remender's Uncanny X-Force).
The thing is that Hickman, Gillen, Ewing, and Percy wrote their books under Hickman's idea of a morally compromised paradise and the increasingly corrupt games of power the leaders and key actors were playing; Spurrier and LaValle explored characters trying to navigate the moral loopholes and unintended consequences of the new nation, culture, and status quo; but Duggan, Ayala, Howard, Orlando, and everyone else were writing it all at face value, like "it's a paradise and it's awesome and we want to play with it for as long as we can".

And their plans to keep playing with it derailed Hickman's planned structure; editorial chose to keep it rolling (I mean, it's selling, why stop), and Hickman whipped up a compressed version of what he had planned, and bailed, leaving the rest of the story hanging loose and kinda directionless. Gillen has done well sort of guiding the main story since, but still.

I'll repeat myself a bit, but the core books (X-Men, Immortal, SWORD/Red, X-Force, the Legion ones) and in general the events have ranged from decent to great, while the peripheral books (New Mutants, Marauders, all of Howard's Betsy Cap Britain books, etc) have ranged from just decent to fucking shit, and leave the whole thing tasting pretty bad.
it's interesting and certainly defendable. I just wish Hickman was allowed to do what he wanted. Some of the other X-Books at least had some fun, but I didn't like it when it got too egregious with the agenda-pushing.
Glad the whole X-Men "polycule" thing of Jean/Scott/Logan has never been really mentioned, almost like it's non-existant. Shame that the Onslaught plot thread kinda fizzled out for some reason. I was looking forward to Nightcrawler waxing and figuring out how to bring religion to Krakoa.
Moira's entire schtick is kinda ??? to me.
 
I'll repeat myself a bit, but the core books (X-Men, Immortal, SWORD/Red, X-Force, the Legion ones) and in general the events have ranged from decent to great, while the peripheral books (New Mutants, Marauders, all of Howard's Betsy Cap Britain books, etc) have ranged from just decent to fucking shit, and leave the whole thing tasting pretty bad.
Im not going to fight you on your opinion of what you like but I take issue with saying the events have ranged from decent to great? Sins of Sinister was the only one Id say was enjoyable and sorry are you really telling you thought A.X.E. Judgement Day was decent? That book was fucking awful and the definition of pointless and don't get me started on the HellFire Gala events. Though Ill let you say the most recent one was ok since so many of the Gender Special Men fucking died lol.
 
Glad the whole X-Men "polycule" thing of Jean/Scott/Logan has never been really mentioned, almost like it's non-existant. Shame that the Onslaught plot thread kinda fizzled out for some reason. I was looking forward to Nightcrawler waxing and figuring out how to bring religion to Krakoa.
Moira's entire schtick is kinda ??? to me.
The Jean/Scott/Logan thing was such a nothing but it's one of the main things people bring up to shit on the whole era.
I liked what they did with Onslaught, but it could have been grander.
Moira's thing is mechanically interesting to me but her goals and motivations became inconsistent when Hickman had to rush through the "ending". Everything about her after that just doesn't work.

Im not going to fight you on your opinion of what you like but I take issue with saying the events have ranged from decent to great?
Yes. X of Swords was fun, I know people expected a big shonen tournament but I enjoyed the fae bullshit and the weaponization of PacoLips' ultimate power: jobbing.
AXE was good. Not perfect, but good. The tie-ins were trash tho.
Sins of Sinister I really liked. It helps that it was, within the structure they went with, pretty self-contained.
Dark Web was fucking shit, I'll give you that one.

The Galas are less events and more like tone-setters for the upcoming year. The only one that you can really call an event was the first one, with the whole line getting an issue for it.
 
Hey like I said I wont fight you on your opinions even if I disagree, at least you are enjoying it and that's what matters.
Dark Web was fucking shit, I'll give you that one.
Zeb Wells is fucking shit so of course anything his connected to would be lol. I just can't believe Marvel found someone worse than Slott to write Spider-Man.
 
As someone who skimmed through some of the X-Men shit, it doesn’t work. There are no characters just people who serve to move the plot without the idiosyncrasies or writing of actual characters. The plot is a mystery box under the main faggot who throws out SciFi concepts like Patrick Tomlinson.

The isekai protagonist has a mystery box motivation that boils down to “I’m angry the unsympathetic lesbians burned me alive and keep using clairvoyance to skull fuck me when I try to do the right thing” after like 5 years of stringing people along. Oh and some Roko’s Basalik is the impotent antagonist who made clones of the X-Men to kill them.

It would be better off as an Age of Apocalypse type deal because the X-Men are woefully unsympathetic. I remember disliking what AoA did with other characters that weren’t the X-Men, but it knew that it was a writer taking a piss.

The social commentary and stunning, Brave faggots are another issue I had that basically makes the setting boring. The murderous X-Men ripoffs do nothing, they don’t even really create too many problems.
They exist to be there when the plot remembers them to do something pointless like terraforming Mars.
 
I'd say watch/listen to this video and make your own mind about McFarlane. He talks about Spider-Man there.
His stubborn boldness and knack for seizing opportunities beyond his artistic talent, to me, are undeniable.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=pvKbRIuWFio


And when there's some sort of praise for McFarlane (a hack for some),
there's always room for shitting on Rob Liefeld (a CERTIFIED hack).
I also think you will find this documentary interesting, hope it helps.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=c9a1XSyjjNg

I could lay the same criticism of Rob at Todd (lazy, entitled, never developed to his full potential, hypocrite, loudmouth) all without Todd having the excuse Liefeld does of blowing up at 17 after drawing one comic.

Liefeld's problems (as an artist, few distinguish) is he immediately got famous, failed to develop and even got worse in the 90s. You look at mid 90s Rob, heroes reborn; it looks bad. It looks bad because Rob can draw. Listen to him talk about comics, hard because all he wants is to salvage his own ruined legacy and you'll discover he actually knows allot about them. More than Todd, who isn't so much a comic book fan, blessed with real talent though he was.

Liefeld's hack status was proven when it became apparent that he only works when he has someone basically tard wrangling him HARD, be it the Kessels having to redraw a chunk of his Hawk and Dove work with them during the inking process to Fabian Nicieza having to literally play tard wrangler and make his ideas somewhat coherent when writing X-Force.

The fact that he completely fucked up Youngblood, a series with SO MUCH POTENTIAL in terms of having shit that Millar would do in Ultimates (super heroes as government agents with media promotion) and Milligan (supe heroes as celebrities) would do in X-Force/Xstatic, only to 100% drop the ball on it, shows that he's at best someone who works only with someone watching over him to keep his sloth and hackery in check,

The potential is the issue. All of Image had potential. Almost none of it panned out. Spawn didn't, Dragon is pretty much porn, Cyberforce, Widcats....

Shadowhawk got there, i suppose.

@Mississippi Motorboater it changed when Bendis ruined Marvel with New Avengers. Wolverine became an Avenger, same with Spidey. There's a reason they weren't historically on the team and Bendis screwed it up and Wolverine getting forced as the good mutie was the logical result of that.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
That's not the bullshit logic that Bendis used in-story for Logan joining the Avengers; he justified in-story Logan joining because Iron Man explicitly asked him to join behind Cap's back because he knew Logan would use lethal force even though it was long established that Captain America explicitly blackballed Logan from joining the team due to Logan using lethal force. And Cap never calling Tony out on this because Bendis was part of the cabal wanting to turn Tony into a good fascist type hero that Bendis and his ilk admire as "real heroes". While Marvel at the time had publicity say that Logan was joining to atone for the events of the god-awful "Enemy of the State" storyline, which was a bastardization of the long pitched "Logan is brainwashed evil by the Hand" Claremont kept getting rejected by Bob Harras that was running at the same time as the start of the Bendis Avengers run.
 
Liefeld's problems (as an artist, few distinguish) is he immediately got famous, failed to develop and even got worse in the 90s. You look at mid 90s Rob, heroes reborn; it looks bad. It looks bad because Rob can draw. Listen to him talk about comics, hard because all he wants is to salvage his own ruined legacy and you'll discover he actually knows allot about them. More than Todd, who isn't so much a comic book fan, blessed with real talent though he was.
Todd was actually a big reason for Rob's issues.

For anyone not in the know, after cutting his teeth on Hulk, which at the time was in danger of getting cancelled so Peter David and MacFarlane were pretty much allowed to do whatever, Todd moved over to Spidey where he started drawing how he wanted and constantly got push back for it. Many of his changes became standards for the books, but at the time the editors were telling him to keep it more uniform to how the books had looked for the previous thirty years. This upset Todd because he believed that he should never receive any criticism at all. Dude was pretty much a lolcow. This is a guy who made his wife the editor on Spawn, and then fired her three issues later because she pointed out his writing was weak, something he readily admitted and was even proud of at the time.

Todd decided it was time for comics to have a union. So he went to the more popular artists of the time and convinced them to demand more creative power. He pointed out to Liefeld that if he got rid of Louise Simonson, he'd get more points from the book sales, and he could write his own stories without having to have them make sense. He also pumped up the egos of a lot of artists at the time, insisting they needed to wrestle control from the writers, which many did before they were ready to even co-plot. The union fell through and Todd quit comics to draw baseball cards, until he heard about Image and decided it needed to be this massive middle finger to Marvel.

Now of course it wasn't entirely his fault, they all got successful way too quickly, but Todd didn't help things. It's a shame he got that injury and couldn't have been the pro baseball player he wanted to be instead of getting stuck in comics.
@Mississippi Motorboater it changed when Bendis ruined Marvel with New Avengers. Wolverine became an Avenger, same with Spidey. There's a reason they weren't historically on the team and Bendis screwed it up and Wolverine getting forced as the good mutie was the logical result of that.
Bendis admitted in several interviews that he said out loud at a writer's summit that he didn't understand why The Avengers, the main team of superheroes for Marvel, didn't include the most popular characters like Spidey and Wolverine. Apparently he got a lot of shit from the other writers right after that, but then editorial decided to give it a shot, with the stipulation that Captain America and Iron Man had to be on the team. And then Bendis decided to also include the oh so popular characters of Luke Cage and Spider-Woman. But it worked, the book sold well and became a focal point for the Marvel Universe. A decision I do not think worked out, in the end.

It reminds me of Peter David's story of another summit. Apparently, while talking about X-Men, David made a joke that was essentially "Why doesn't Magneto just pull Wolverine's metal skeleton out of his body?" and Bob Harras decided that yes, that was an excellent idea. David tried to convince him otherwise, insisting that if Logan came back from that, it'd make him unkillable and it'd ruin the character. And then they did it anyway.
 
That's not the bullshit logic that Bendis used in-story for Logan joining the Avengers; he justified in-story Logan joining because Iron Man explicitly asked him to join behind Cap's back because he knew Logan would use lethal force even though it was long established that Captain America explicitly blackballed Logan from joining the team due to Logan using lethal force. And Cap never calling Tony out on this because Bendis was part of the cabal wanting to turn Tony into a good fascist type hero that Bendis and his ilk admire as "real heroes". While Marvel at the time had publicity say that Logan was joining to atone for the events of the god-awful "Enemy of the State" storyline, which was a bastardization of the long pitched "Logan is brainwashed evil by the Hand" Claremont kept getting rejected by Bob Harras that was running at the same time as the start of the Bendis Avengers run.
Your talking past me.

I'm not talking about "In story". I'm talking about why Wolverine, of all people, is an Avenger.

Wolverine, sells. Fans gobbled him up even after the Claremont and the BWS stopped working on him. So yes, Bendis put him on the book because Bendis has to sell more than Busiek, Geoff Johns, and Chuck Austen, lol.

So you get the hot artists, Dave Finch, Frank Cho, Steve Mcniven. So you grab the top selling characters, Spider-man Wolverine, and you put em on the book despite neither one EVER fitting the mold well. You create controversy and give it a new number 1. I don't care what Bendis says or Quesada says, that's the thinking process.

Once you do that once, it's obvious Logan will be malformed into Xavier 2.0. Because the people who should take Charles legacy aren't as popular or merchandisable as him. Cyclops and the X-men won't sell like Wolverine and the X-men would.

New Avengers/disassembled is where it first happened, and the source of that mindset.

@Arthur Morgan exactly. My point is Bendis didn't understand WHY Wolverine doesn't fit on the Avengers. He's all about Bendis. This is a man whose first thought after getting hired to write Superman was "Jewish" because he's super jewish and therefore the unimportant fact that the two men who created Superman were Jewish and from Ohio, like him, was what he took from the character.

I shit you not.

It sold short term with what I call manufactured success. They took Jeph Loeb's idea of rethinking numbnering, basterdized, and got speculator support at the expense of long time fans of the Avengers. There is an inbuilt audience that the book lost with dissassembled that never returned. Maybe it wasn't a ton, but let's say it was a couple of thousand. Then they put artists who would move any title you put them on. Then they did manipulative tie ins and variants. By the time your done, Bendis drove a wrecking ball through the titles and he and Quesada covered it up for half a decade so as not to have it linked. Dan Didio did the same thing with the Nu52.

How much better would Batman have sold if you had Greg fucking Capullo drawing the Batman books instead of Tony Daniels? Jim Lee drawing Justice League? Inflated launch numbers next to a deflated lead in. Bendis didn't follow Johns or Busiek, he followed Chuck Austen with fiery hot Dave Finch doing art duties.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
For those who didn't waste $5 on Iron Man #20 (the wedding of Tony Stark and Emma Frost)

1. Tony Stark tells Feilong (IE evil Chinese Elon Musk) that Emma fled to Mars and we get massive foreshadowing for the endgame of Fall of X, as far as Tony planting the seed into Feilong's mind that Emma's going to conquer Mars and eventually declare war on Earth as far as "war of the worlds: mutant edition" and that the fall of Orchis will happen explicitly because Feilong will convince the rest of Orchis to attack Mars at some point to kick off the endgame.

2. Feilong (still thinking Emma is some mousy brown haired secretary alter ego of Emma's that Duggan hamfistedly inserted into Tony and Emma's backstory a couple of issues prior) forces himself into their Vegas wedding chapel wedding ceremony, causing Emma to lose her cool and force herself into his mind with Tony by her side. We learn that everything Duggan previously established about Feilong's parents being evil rich cunts who fucked over their son make more money for themselves in the past was all lies. Feilong's parents were poor mutants and Feilong their human son who hates all mutants because he isn't one/has no powers.

In short the whole thing was rather skippable as hell unless you count Duggan possibly giving away the Fall of X ending in the worst possible way it could.
 
For those who didn't waste $5 on Iron Man #20 (the wedding of Tony Stark and Emma Frost)

1. Tony Stark tells Feilong (IE evil Chinese Elon Musk) that Emma fled to Mars and we get massive foreshadowing for the endgame of Fall of X, as far as Tony planting the seed into Feilong's mind that Emma's going to conquer Mars and eventually declare war on Earth as far as "war of the worlds: mutant edition" and that the fall of Orchis will happen explicitly because Feilong will convince the rest of Orchis to attack Mars at some point to kick off the endgame.

2. Feilong (still thinking Emma is some mousy brown haired secretary alter ego of Emma's that Duggan hamfistedly inserted into Tony and Emma's backstory a couple of issues prior) forces himself into their Vegas wedding chapel wedding ceremony, causing Emma to lose her cool and force herself into his mind with Tony by her side. We learn that everything Duggan previously established about Feilong's parents being evil rich cunts who fucked over their son make more money for themselves in the past was all lies. Feilong's parents were poor mutants and Feilong their human son who hates all mutants because he isn't one/has no powers.

In short the whole thing was rather skippable as hell unless you count Duggan possibly giving away the Fall of X ending in the worst possible way it could.

Did you read the Ultimate Invasion?

Are they really relaunching the Ultimate Universe? What a bunch of fucking hacks.

Nah, the got Hitch and it's not the actual Ultimate universe. It's more like Hickman milking people who that was the first comic book they ever read so they want that back...
 
Are they really relaunching the Ultimate Universe? What a bunch of fucking hacks.
I'd be up for another attempt at doing a side universe that's intended to bring in new readers, but I hope this time they actually think it through. And don't just make everyone except Spidey unlikeable shits. I feel like it could work if you treated it more like a writer's room. IE, have multiple writers on each book, but they're in constant communication and are able to bounce ideas off each other, with a lead writer taking the helm.

But considering the quality of the writing staff at DC and Marvel currently, I doubt we'd get a good outcome.
 
I'd be up for another attempt at doing a side universe that's intended to bring in new readers, but I hope this time they actually think it through. And don't just make everyone except Spidey unlikeable shits. I feel like it could work if you treated it more like a writer's room. IE, have multiple writers on each book, but they're in constant communication and are able to bounce ideas off each other, with a lead writer taking the helm.

But considering the quality of the writing staff at DC and Marvel currently, I doubt we'd get a good outcome.
honestly I was kinda fine with Ultimate Cap/Iron Man to an extent. The issue's more like we just kinda never got anything in-depth beyond The Ultimates and Spidey. Ultimate X-Men/F4 were kinda just there (until we got The Maker).


Maybe this time we just get an Ultimate Universe Anthology book where they just retcon it so Ultimatum didn't happen but we still get The Maker?
 
The last ultimate universe gave us the cancer of Miles Morales so I just can't wait to see what terrible ideas this one comes up with.
 
The last ultimate universe gave us the cancer of Miles Morales so I just can't wait to see what terrible ideas this one comes up with.

Well, canon incest between SW and Pietro, canibal blob eating Jan, Wolverine being an adult thirsting after teenJean, Galactus being a robot bug swarm (fucking Ellis).

It's allot of bullshit.

I'd be up for another attempt at doing a side universe that's intended to bring in new readers, but I hope this time they actually think it through. And don't just make everyone except Spidey unlikeable shits. I feel like it could work if you treated it more like a writer's room. IE, have multiple writers on each book, but they're in constant communication and are able to bounce ideas off each other, with a lead writer taking the helm.

But considering the quality of the writing staff at DC and Marvel currently, I doubt we'd get a good outcome.
honestly I was kinda fine with Ultimate Cap/Iron Man to an extent. The issue's more like we just kinda never got anything in-depth beyond The Ultimates and Spidey. Ultimate X-Men/F4 were kinda just there (until we got The Maker).


Maybe this time we just get an Ultimate Universe Anthology book where they just retcon it so Ultimatum didn't happen but we still get The Maker?

Ultimate FF was crippled out the gate because Millar I think was blowing up and he dipped on the first, decompressed arc with Bendis making it bleh as fuck. Then Ellis came along kindof delivered a bland year long run. The real rub is Ultimate FF was really good, once Millar was on it. He created Marvel Zombies, put a modern twist on old concepts and it's really just a deaged classic FF with the Ultimate tag thrown on.

Ultimate X-men may as well have been sewage. Millar largely failed to deliver despite years on the book, bendis shit the bed with Dave Finch of all people wasted for that year long run. Then a literal who's who of writers wasted the potential of the Ultimate brand.

Eh, unpopular opinion. Ultimate Spidey was only ever a five out of ten at best and Ultimates undid everything in subsequent volumes that made it interesting.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ultimate FF was crippled out the gate because Millar I think was blowing up and he dipped on the first, decompressed arc with Bendis making it bleh as fuck. Then Ellis came along kindof delivered a bland year long run. The real rub is Ultimate FF was really good, once Millar was on it. He created Marvel Zombies, put a modern twist on old concepts and it's really just a deaged classic FF with the Ultimate tag thrown on.

Ultimate X-men may as well have been sewage. Millar largely failed to deliver despite years on the book, bendis shit the bed with Dave Finch of all people wasted for that year long run. Then a literal who's who of writers wasted the potential of the Ultimate brand.

Eh, unpopular opinion. Ultimate Spidey was only ever a five out of ten at best and Ultimates undid everything in subsequent volumes that made it interesting.
I think the Ultimate Universe has potential, but the problem is that I only ever really got enticed by the concept of The Maker. Didn't care for anything else and Miles Morales doesn't work all that well without the gravitas of being the legacy to a dead spidey.

As for the rest of the Ultimate Universe heroes?
>X-Men? Doesn't really intrigue me as much because they kinda killed them all. Maybe something could have been really interesting if they'd given some good writer handles on it. I think the idea of mutants being super-soldier serum descendents or sth instead of a new race was an interesting twist.
>F4. I uh. . . I like the idea of Reed turning batshit crazy. I just wish the rest of it was decently executed.
>Daredevil and other Marvel heroes- Didn't really get enough screentime. I think we had like Dr. Strange and Dr. Doom as the sole magicians? IDR. Magical shit wasn't explored cohesively in this universe.
>The Ultimates were an interesting idea but I wish they'd have done better overall.
>The Vampire shit that happened post-Ultimatum was an intriguing direction but lmao nu-Daredevil/Stick/Nerd Hulk getting turned and killed off so fast was kinda bullshit.
 
This weeks Fall of X update....

X-Men: Duggan continues to be fail and AIDS incarnate as he changes Rasputin's backstory to give her new power as Duggan's plot requires (psychic powers) and he makes Reed suck X-Dick over being mindwiped when the F-List X-Men (and Kamala) come begging him to make power cloaking devices for them as far as blaming himself for being a victim of Xavier/Magneto's minrape of him. Also, Cyclops is boobytrapped so he can't be rescued and Kitty continues to spew bullshit as she frees Juggernaut but not really, as he gets the shit kicked out of him by Nimrod off-panel again and DR Stasis tells Firestar that he's going to kill Juggernaut the next day and claim the Juggernaut powers for himself.

Immortal X-Men: Shaw attacks Xavier with his own Iron Man suit alongside Selene until Xavier agrees to help him steal all of Kingpin's money so he can cripple Emma/Stark/Kingpin's alliance via Shaw taking over the Hellfire Club again. Also, Gillen claims Xavier didn't kill a bunch of ORCHIS goons after all last issue and he finds Siniste'rs lab and we get a vague warning message that says "don't kill yourself please" and a red diamond on a mirror that reflects back to Xavier's head.

Also, the Five are reunited and are resurrecting dead folk (don't know how); Destiny doesn't trust Mother Righteous and Exodus/Hope find a psychic image of Jean which leads to Hope realizing that Jean's in the White Hot Room again and Exodus fights and Apocalypse who may or may not be the real Poccy.

X-Force: Mikhail has Colossus kidnap an Orchis member who's parents were killed by the original Brotherhood when Astra was a member to put her under the control of Mikhail's reality warping "Scribe"; who instead makes the Orchis chick shoot Mikhail and free Colossus as a result of him switching victims to control. Also Domino and Sage get Dr Strange to teleport him to Mikhail's lair.
 
Current Spiderman.
IMG_2134.jpeg IMG_2135.jpeg
 
Back
Top Bottom