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Humble Architect said:
The Crisis getting rid of the multiverse was the right call, much like diversity characters it’s just unnecessary.
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yeah I think the whole hypertime thing was a good substitute, but again. Never used properly.

Besides, as I think I've stated before. The only real thing we missed from pre-crisis DCU that didn't get reintroduced in some form was Helena Wayne.


DC folded in the Earth-Shazam cast into Fawcett City, Earth-X got folded into the Golden Age. Earth 3 was turned into a Qward thing. We got hypertime introduced on the off chance that we wanted to toy with something way out there.

Wildstorm was folded in with the Superman-Majestic stuff and that Captain Atom series. What else did we really need here? I guess Superboy Prime and Alexander Luthor could have been entertaining if executed properly.
 
Alexander Thaut said:
yeah I think the whole hypertime thing was a good substitute, but again. Never used properly.

Besides, as I think I've stated before. The only real thing we missed from pre-crisis DCU that didn't get reintroduced in some form was Helena Wayne.


DC folded in the Earth-Shazam cast into Fawcett City, Earth-X got folded into the Golden Age. Earth 3 was turned into a Qward thing. We got hypertime introduced on the off chance that we wanted to toy with something way out there.

Wildstorm was folded in with the Superman-Majestic stuff and that Captain Atom series. What else did we really need here? I guess Superboy Prime and Alexander Luthor could have been entertaining if executed properly.
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Superboy Prime was hilarious because he was completely right about everything.

It’s the Transformers Sentinel Prime thing, create a strawman villain and due to incompetent writing that strawman is incredibly based and right about the problems facing the world.
 
Going through back issues of the X-Men, and you have issue 106 of the first series where the dark side of Prof. X manifests itself while he's down for the count and I was amused how in this brief appearance the "Entity" looked like one of those Golden Age comic villains whose outfits consisted of a cape that didn't match up with their bespoke suits.

DYOU.jpg

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I need consultation of someone who has older Marvel autism and tolerance for stupid questions about Mr. Sinister
 
1) to get this out of the way, I saw a person mention once that a 80s comic had a "scene with Sinister and tentacles", and I wanna see it for myself bc I doubt it actually was anything suggestive (they def did not mean 90s, as it was a discussion about some writer?artist?..being prone to not obeying the directives)

2) where does he use his shapechanging in a cool way?
Beside that one time in 90s comics where it, indeed, was something along the lines of tentacles (where he freshly aquired said shapechanging ability)

3) when did the black star on his head became a red diamond permanently? I am aware the diamond had like 3 canon justifications, it just was that his entire design direction shifted with it

4) did he ever get that super-baby he wanted Jean to spawn, I read that it was "Madeline" actually giving birth to said baby?
 
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UnsufficentBoobage said:
1) to get this out of the way, I saw a person mention once that a 80s comic had a "scene with Sinister and tentacles", and I wanna see it for myself bc I doubt it actually was anything suggestive (they def did not mean 90s, as it was a discussion about some writer?artist?..being prone to not obeying the directives)

2) where does he use his shapechanging in a cool way?
Beside that one time in 90s comics where it, indeed, was something along the lines of tentacles (where he freshly aquired said shapechanging ability)

3) when did the black star on his head became a red diamond permanently? I am aware the diamond had like 3 canon justifications, it just was that his entire design direction shifted with it

4) did he ever get that super-baby he wanted Jean to spawn, I read that it was "Madeline" actually giving birth to said baby?
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1. I don't think there was ever a Sinister story with tentacles. At least not in the 80s and 90s. In the X-Factor #39's flashback sequence, when he first revealed himself to Cyclops as a kid, there is a scene where a mechanical arm grabbing machine grabs a young Scott's arm to restrain him. Also, Sinister's shredded cape SOMETIMES might look like tentacles but it's not tentacles.

2. Sinister generally used his shapeshifting powers for disguise more than anything. He was supposed to be Gambit, per Claremont's original plan but that got dropped once Claremont left the book, so Sinister doesn't use his shapeshifting form on panel until X-Factor #75, when he formally reveals himself to be alive and impersonates Val Cooper's black ex-husband (who is a doctor who tells Quicksilver he's not been poisoned, as everyone was led to believe in X-Factor #71-74 but instead having high blood pressure fucking with his body and putting him in danger of a heart attack) and later in the issue, impersonating the evil mutant Senator he was working with alongside the Nasty Boys.

He then used it in X-Men #22 and #27, the first as a young bearded neighbor of Cyclop's parents who visited the couple when Cyclops went to stay with them for a bit after Xcutioner's Song and in the later,
as an older mustachioed ER doctor who interacts with Beast, Rogue, and Thernody. IIRC the former had brown hair/beard/mustache but the later had salt and pepper black hair and mustache only and was later used as the template for his normal human form (as seen in X-Men Annual 95 and Further Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix).

(There was also the two X-Men Classic story set in Scott's time at his orphanage that introduced the young boy named Nathan that was supposed to be Sinister's true form. But Nathan had brown hair IIRC and Claremont never showed him morphing into Sinister or Sinister as a construct being remote controlled by Nathan).

3. IIRC the Series 1 Marvel Super Heroes trading card for the character was the first appearance of the red diamond on Sinister's head (which came out between the gap between X-Factor #39 and #75). And carried over when Sinister showed up alive again in X-Factor #75/77-78.

4. Only in the Age of Apocalypse timeline did he get a child proper out of Jean and even then, it was a test tube baby.

In the main Marvel Universe he had to do plan b when Jean died and bred Scott with Maddie, a clone of Jean. Had Louise Simonson not been fired, the original plan for the Twelve storyline was going to hinge on whether or not Maddie counted as a real person as far as the Celestials coming to Earth to judge mutantkind as a 4.1 Judgement that addresses the existence of mutantkind and the revelation that 99% of all mutants are sterile/can never have kids and the Twelve being twelve mutants who were confirmed to be capable of producing offspring, as far as confirmed to be fertile/capable of producing cum that can get a woman pregnant, not beings of super power who Apocalypse coveted for a mutant circuit to power a Celestial reality warping device or to fight to become king of mutantkind.

Ironically, in the latest Marvel Masterwork for the X-Men, Claremont did drop a couple of revelations about his run and the Australia era/Inferno arc that he had planned and what prompted certain storylines. Claremont originally intended for Sinister's endgame to be to gain the power of the Phoenix via Jean and when Jean died, he cloned Jean and created Maddie, who in turn was supposed to become Dark Phoenix instead of Goblin Queen during Inferno. And that him wanting Scott's kid was substituted instead when Harras gave the order that Maddie had to be killed off at the end of the story rather than be allowed to survive.
 
Alexander Thaut said:
it's a great tool, but DC during the late 00s was kinda in some kinda clusterfuck. they seemed impatient and then you had the n52 era that kinda shat itself.

feels like Dan Didio kept trying to have his streamlined reboot, but not know what the fuck the fans want.
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He didn't really care what the fans wanted, he just cared about what type of fans he thought would buy the books. Kind of like how modern Hollywood is trying to find that 'modern audience' of liberal, diverse people of color that doesn't exist. Didio set up the New 52 to be exclusively for middle aged men who have been buying comics for decades because he assumed since they have more money than kids, they'll be more likely to buy the comics.

Yeah, the comic book audience tends to be older, but that doesn't mean you can't try and get a new readership in. Going for one target is just stupid.
 
Just read "Nemesis" by Mark Millar and it was silly even by Millar standards. Felt like he wrote this in an afternoon, didn't care much for McNiven's artwork either. Serves me right for following a recommendation of some random Youtuber that popped up in my feed. At least it took only the odd half-hour to finish. I read most Millar and i am still wondering how he ever got a job in the industry. He's like a watered-down Ennis, all edge, no talent. Think i'll go read Void Indigo now, liked the artwork a lot, though it's another random YT recommend.

Edit: Scratch that, GetComics doesn't have scans of Void Indigo. If anyone got a source, please hook me up.
 
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The original Nemesis was a blatant movie pitch (Millar even promoted it as "Evil Batman by way of the Joker" long before The Batman Who Laughs even existed without actually explaining the plot, as though he was explicitly promoting the film to his Hollywood friends instead of comic readers) and had all of the worst elements of Millar's writing at the time.

Between it and Kickass 2's gang rape/child massacre sequence and Civil War in general, it was Millar at his worst and did major damage to his credibility, especially since Nemesis had to have a good chunk of it's artwork altered prior to publication due to DC threatening lawsuits. It was so bad that Millar ultimately had to retcon the entire series when he started up his Millarverse crossover story as far as throwing out the original mini and redoing it from scratch for the lead in for Big Game.

(As for how Millar got into the comic industry, he started off as Grant Morrison and Warren Ellis's butt boy with Morrison literally ghost writing most of Millar's early work at DC and Ellis giving him work he felt beneath him, as seen with Ellis giving him Authority to write when Ellis came to believe Planetary not Authority was going to be the big comic industry changing hit of the two).
 
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MirrorNoir said:
As for how Millar got into the comic industry, he started off as Grant Morrison and Warren Ellis's butt boy with Morrison literally ghost writing most of Millar's early work at DC and Ellis giving him work he felt beneath him, as seen with Ellis giving him Authority to write when Ellis came to believe Planetary not Authority was going to be the big comic industry changing hit of the two
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Highly informative, appreciated. This is the stuff i come back to this thread for, i read a ton of US comics but i know next to nothing about individual authors and the behind-the-scenes stuff, except for Ennis and (some) Image/McFarlane stuff.
 
Clyde Cash's Left Teste said:
Its weird because now that I think about it, the only person that really tried to play with the multiverse was Morrison
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They held it for him later, unfortunately. But no, they did a smattering of multiverse stuff over the period between the multiverses restoration in (2006) to (2014). Like allot of things, Dan fucked it up, bad

The TIMELINE

2008 was the big year. After the overrated 52, a series of titles played in the multiverse

Geoff Johns Justice Society Annual 1 set on Earth 2 (JSA). Great issue, art Jerry ordway and then they completely dropped the ball going forward. Also features Earth 22 (kingdom Come)

At the same time Tangent Superman Reign miniseries in 2008 is set on Earth 9,

Countdown runs all over any attempt to set up the multiverse, crossing worlds. There's the ray palmer search, with Earths 3 (Crime Syndicate), 8 (marvel havoc), 11 (gender reversed), 19 (steampunk). 29 (Red Son), 43 (Red Rain),

2009

Then the multiverse gets fucked in Final Crises. Morrison kills Ubergirl because of course a supergirl has to die because Crises. Then there are Five superman in Superman Beyond. Three Legions from unspecified earths in the spin off Legion series.

2011 forward is where the full on rape of multiverse DC begins.

The horrible Earth 2 by James Robinson and TOm Taylor, completely missing the appeal of the concept.

Geoff Johns promptly recreated and then killed the Crime Syndicate of Earth 3.

Morrison ultimately got to define the Multiverse. And overall it's not glowing. But so much wasted potential.
 
MirrorNoir said:
The original Nemesis was a blatant movie pitch (Millar even promoted it as "Evil Batman by way of the Joker" long before The Batman Who Laughs even existed without actually explaining the plot, as though he was explicitly promoting the film to his Hollywood friends instead of comic readers) and had all of the worst elements of Millar's writing at the time.
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Everything he did around that time was just for a movie pitch. Hell, the Kickass movie got green lit before the first issue even came out.

This caused a big problem in the indie scene if you were a writer wanting to work with an artist on a new project. Places like Digital Webbing and Pencil Jack were flooded with requests for artists to work for free on a mini-series, with a promise that there'd be big bucks when it got picked up for a movie deal. A lot of artists decided to just write their own books rather than work with someone who actually knew how to plot, and it led to a lot of shit getting made. One friend I had was a solid artist but got so discouraged by his pitches getting rejected because he was a shit writer that he quit comics and stuck to graphic design because he wouldn't get paid any other way, and there weren't many writers interested in paying him, they just wanted him to draw their movie pitches for free or pennies. Then things got worse as tumblr artists started entering the field.

It wasn't all Millar's fault, dude wanted to get paid and get into Hollywood like a lot of people did. But the fact that his books needed to be so heavily re-written to make it to the silver screen, to the point where I personally wouldn't have paid him for Wanted, it's barely recognizable, should have clued him in to his flaws he needed to work on. Instead he just got pissy that people liked his work better when he was co-writing with Morrison.
 
Arthur Morgan said:
Everything he did around that time was just for a movie pitch. Hell, the Kickass movie got green lit before the first issue even came out.

This caused a big problem in the indie scene if you were a writer wanting to work with an artist on a new project. Places like Digital Webbing and Pencil Jack were flooded with requests for artists to work for free on a mini-series, with a promise that there'd be big bucks when it got picked up for a movie deal. A lot of artists decided to just write their own books rather than work with someone who actually knew how to plot, and it led to a lot of shit getting made. One friend I had was a solid artist but got so discouraged by his pitches getting rejected because he was a shit writer that he quit comics and stuck to graphic design because he wouldn't get paid any other way, and there weren't many writers interested in paying him, they just wanted him to draw their movie pitches for free or pennies. Then things got worse as tumblr artists started entering the field.

It wasn't all Millar's fault, dude wanted to get paid and get into Hollywood like a lot of people did. But the fact that his books needed to be so heavily re-written to make it to the silver screen, to the point where I personally wouldn't have paid him for Wanted, it's barely recognizable, should have clued him in to his flaws he needed to work on. Instead he just got pissy that people liked his work better when he was co-writing with Morrison.
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I do enjoy Millar's current works. Starlight was quite good
 
Read all of World War Hulk and it’s tie-ins.

Holy fuck the main Hulk book during that time with Amadeus is awful (he’s wasn’t a hulk yet) genuine fanfiction OC-tier, fuck Greg Pak. There’s a weird commie part where Cho steals money from Angel and when called out he says “you’re a trustie, you didn’t earn it”

“I’m Hulk’s friend, he’s not so bad.”
-Greg Pak’s self insert
 
Humble Architect said:
Read all of World War Hulk and it’s tie-ins.

Holy fuck the main Hulk book during that time with Amadeus is awful (he’s wasn’t a hulk yet) genuine fanfiction OC-tier, fuck Greg Pak. There’s a weird commie part where Cho steals money from Angel and when called out he says “you’re a trustie, you didn’t earn it”

“I’m Hulk’s friend, he’s not so bad.”
-Greg Pak’s self insert
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it was horrendous at the time too. I was in middle school? I think reading it and I thought that book was offensively bad at 12. I'm asian too and I did not appreciate the representation. Amadeus is a faggot and I hate him. WWH itself sucks too. the sentry? really? the fuck is wrong with you? was that an editorial decision?

in fact if I ever work for Marvel I am creating a one-off self insert OC of my own, just so he can kill Amadeus Cho.
 
Hembruh said:
it was horrendous at the time too. I was in middle school? I think reading it and I thought that book was offensively bad at 12. I'm asian too and I did not appreciate the representation. Amadeus is a faggot and I hate him. WWH itself sucks too. the sentry? really? the fuck is wrong with you? was that an editorial decision?
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Well the world shills Amadeus as a “genius” which is meaningless when humans like Charles Xavier, Tony Stark, Reed Richards, Bruce Banner and Victor Von Doom exist.

But then the “genius” walks right up to the Green Scar and trys to say “We’re on your side” and is shocked when he sees the slave pits. This is also where the “Hulk has never killed anyone” BS came from.

Hulk shouldn’t have come straight back to Earth, he should’ve become a galactic conqueror, building an army to bring to Earth. Let him go full villian. Planet Hulk really was Greg getting lucky, the art of WWH was awful too, Romita jr sucks.
 
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