Sperg about comic books here

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I finally started reading some of the absolute stuff, picked up some of the TP.
WW I liked, which is cool because I'm generally not a fan.
GL was awesome.
Just started on Batman. Love the art but still out on the story so far.
 
Absolute Wonder Woman is great.

I'm reading pretty much everything, but the standouts for me are the current Transformers/GIJoe/Void Rivals stuff, The Power Fantasy, Ultimate Spiderman, and anything Dan Mora is drawing.

I wish Local Man had gotten more time.
 
I was looking at the January solicits in DC Connect, particularly The Kids Are All Fight, and felt like another Jon Kent sperg-out. The writing is pretty much on the wall now: there is nowhere for the current incarnation of the character to go now. Several issues of the most recent Secret Six mini-series went unranked (below 200) in the sales charts and it saw him break up with his twink boyfriend, Jay Nakamura. Keep in mind that their relationship was DC's only justification for Teen Jon's continued existence. Hooking him up with a troon (Dreamer) will only solidify the character's irrelevance in the Superman family and DC Comics as whole.

Let's face it. We already have Conner, whose brash and headstrong (albeit somewhat insecure) personality actually nicely contrasts with Clarks and the half-Luthor DNA gives him interesting baggage, Teen Jon's just. . . there. Tom Taylor made the character into a Soapbox Sadie who was more self-absorbed and moralizing than actual superhero. However, the ugly truth is that Teen Jon is a flying plot tumor that demands you suspend your disbelief to an absurd degree. You would have to accept that:

  • Lois and Clark were horribly negligent parents and complete idiots for allowing a mentally unstable Jor-El take their son on an intergalactic roadtrip. Lois especially so because she originally went on the trip, basically abandoned her son, and returned to Metropolis WITHOUT telling her husband. As a Lois fan, that is character assassination of the highest order.
  • Jon spent six-seven years imprisoned and tormented inside a volcano by Ultraman on Earth-3 and came back with no apparent psychological or intellectual problems. Somehow I doubt that Ultraman bothered to homeschool him so he should've been at a fifth or sixth grade level. No, I'm not going to believe some ass-pull that Jor-El uploaded age-appropriate knowledge directly into his brain.
  • No one in the supporting cast asked why Jon was suddenly seven years older. I'm sure that Jimmy Olsen, Perry White, Lana Lang, and John Henry Irons would have had some very uncomfortable questions. The biggest one being: "What the fuck is wrong with you?" Pretty much them and every DC superhero would be on their case and questioning their judgment.
Unfortunately, DC swept all the possible trauma under the rug and only quietly addressed the lost years as one of Clark's regrets. Instead they plowed on with the narrative that Jon was going to surpass his father and become the Superman for a new generation, but that never materialized. Superman: Son of Kal-El was an exercise in futility as it took FIFTEEN issues to complete one story arc and The Warworld Saga's finite scope meant that he was a temporary replacement at best. Then the next mini-series promised reader a confrontation with Ultraman, but then faked out and gave us a confrontation with Injustice Superman instead. . .

. . .and how did Jon handle murderous and tyrannical version of his father? He hugged him and then lectured him before returning to Earth-0 and leaving the Insurgency to pick up the pieces.

Dark Crisis (on Infinite Earths) came, which had Jon try to become the inspiration his father was and restart the Justice League, but completely fail at it. Black Adam brutally called him out on it, and it was Dick Grayson who rallied the heroes against Pariah and Deathstroke. Then there was Absolute Power where he spent half of that crossover as Amanda Waller's weapon. All of this shows a pattern of Jon being both passive and ineffectual. Clark was empathetic, sure, but he always took decisive action while Jon just thought he could win people over with hugs and speeches.

General fan reception pretty much crystallized. Those who ACTUALLY buy the comics in large numbers have largely rejected him as Superman because editorial took so many narrative shortcuts to force him into that position. He never had a proper coming-of-age arc and he certainly never earned the title. Many of the legacies introduced in Future State (like Yara Flor and Jace Fox) have now been sidelined and no amount of pushing or shaming will make the customer pay for what they don't want. They did the same thing to Bart Allen in aging up from 16 to 20 during Infinite Crisis to force him into the mantle of the Flash. Fan backlash forced DC to kill him a year later, then bring back the original teenage version in Legion of Three Worlds. Similarly, DC pushed Barry as the ONLY and later the primary Flash for a decade before conceding and putting Wally back in the role with the Jeremy Adams run. You can't fight customer in the long term.

The only time Jon Kent was popular was when he was ten; bright, earnest, and innocent. A perfect counterweight to Damian, which is why Super Sons is still fondly remembered years later. There ARE ways to bring bring him back without retconning Teen Jon. He can simply be a knot in time created by a paradox (Jor-El) whose very existence threatens the integrity of the timeline. It can be framed as a sacrifice where Teen Jon can give up his existence for "the boy who should have lived". Give him some resolution with Jay and it can all be wrapped up neatly. Otherwise DC might as well pretend the character never existed.
 
Did Jon and Damien ever hang out with Wally's kids Jay and Irey? That, right there, is reason enough to bring the kid back.

All they have to do is have someone time travel back and yoink him right before he gets captured by Ultraman. I.E., the exact same thing they did to get rid of Psi-Lord and bring back the young Franklin Richards.
 
Just retcon all of it and go back to Super-Sons. Nobody likes this garbage and it was done by Bendis, the Grim Reaper of comics, anyway.

How is Absolute DC? I've been hearing good things about it but as always with modern comics I'm skeptical. Is some of it good? Is all of it good? Does it look like it will stay good? Anyone who's read it have any insight?
 
re: Jon Kent
They’re almost certainly terrified the vocal LGBT minority (which has never and will never buy a comic) would accuse them of gay erasure if they de-aged the character. Or, worse, you have now got a 10 year boy who has been canonically proven to like the taste of cock, and can you imagine the walking on eggshells you’d have to do with every relationship of his going forward?
 
PrincessHomura said:
Just retcon all of it and go back to Super-Sons. Nobody likes this garbage and it was done by Bendis, the Grim Reaper of comics, anyway.

How is Absolute DC? I've been hearing good things about it but as always with modern comics I'm skeptical. Is some of it good? Is all of it good? Does it look like it will stay good? Anyone who's read it have any insight?
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I've read Absolute WW, GL, & Batman.
Supes looks interesting but I'm not feeling it.
I was surprised I liked WW because I'm usually not a fan.
Batman is hyper violent, like stab you in the eyes and cut your hand off violent.
They maintain he doesn't kill people but yeah, that mofo is dead.
Biggest gripe here is Bruce isn't rich yet still seems to have all the recourses he needs.
Plus, Bat-AX... Nuff said.
Green Lantern is my favorite so far.
It's like a cosmic/sci-fi/horror thing?
I'm not really sure how to describe it.
Abin Sur looks like a four armed Majin Buu from DBZ.
The first volume of trades are out now so it's really easy to grab one and get a feel for the book.
 
DocAwe said:
It would be better if Jon Kent never existed.
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Jon was always a mistake, there may be people that don't know, but I remember the Jon Kent from New 52, the multiple ones actually. Gosh that New 52 Superboy was such a clusterfuck towards the end.

I will give a medal for anyone who can explain the whole lore of New 52 Jon Kent (not even Superboy, just Jon Kent)
 
The thing I never liked about Jon was the idea that he, a half-breed would surpass his father in power.

I would’ve preferred if Jon had the limited powers of the Golden Age Supes. Because that would track with the other super-kids not being the apex that is their parents. I originally thought back in the day that his powers manifesting earlier than Clark’s was a wink and a nod to the earlier versions of Supes.

Kinda like how Dick, despite being the best of Batman is not the best like Bruce is.
 
Humble Architect said:
The thing I never liked about Jon was the idea that he, a half-breed would surpass his father in power.

I would’ve preferred if Jon had the limited powers of the Golden Age Supes. Because that would track with the other super-kids not being the apex that is their parents. I originally thought back in the day that his powers manifesting earlier than Clark’s was a wink and a nod to the earlier versions of Supes.

Kinda like how Dick, despite being the best of Batman is not the best like Bruce is.
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Didn't we basically have that with Conner Kent?
 
DocAwe said:
Didn't we basically have that with Conner Kent?
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Conner originally had unique bells and whistles and that was cool (telekinesis was how he originally flew if I’m correct) but yes, he got degraded to weaker Clark.

But Conner was supposed to be the New 52 Superman and with him doing nothing since his return, him and Jon have become interchangeable.

Both get drawn with gay-face, both are flawed and unworthy sucessors, both are half-breeds, both had all potential as characters sapped-out by the “new directions” of hacks and both are graves for better eras (Triangle and Rebirth), it’s just depressing.

Jon should’ve grown up normally but his powers should’ve been a “will they or won’t they?” sort of deal, like that underrated Disney flick, “Sky High,” that would’ve been great. The shitty CW Superman even saw the genius in having s kid with no powers.
 
Humble Architect said:
Conner originally had unique bells and whistles and that was cool (telekinesis was how he originally flew if I’m correct) but yes, he got degraded to weaker Clark.
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His original Cadmus origin stated that the Kryptonian genome was too complex for the organization to crack, so they had to come up with a workaround with tactile telekinesis. It game him flight, super-strength, and limited invulnerability meaning he had a harder time deflecting energy-based attacks. There were other ways for Conner to manipulate it and a future version from Titans Tomorrow eventually evolved it into full telekinesis that could even block Shazam's magical lightning. The half-Kryptonian part came from Geoff Johns run, but he kept the tactile telekinesis and Joshua Williamson's run on Superman affirmed it so Conner still has the potential to be more powerful than Clark.

As for Jon, the point of my previous post was that DC will have to de-age him if they want to use him. I imagine a cost analysis would show that there is greater potential in merchandising and cross-media potential in Super Sons than there is with Teen Jon. Look at Battle of the Super Sons, which ignored Teen Jon and focused on Kid Jon's dynamic with Damian Wayne. Super Sons was property with all-ages appeal. Teen Jon appeals to such a small (albeit vocal) demographic that is so economically insignificant that the backlash would be toothless. Same with the entertainment media as they would move on after a week. Part of it may be editorial inertia and the unwillingness of the company to admit that they royally screwed up when they brought Bendis on board. They quietly rolled back his changes, but the aging-up of Jon has become narrative kryptonite for the company.
 
Jetpack Himmler said:
His original Cadmus origin stated that the Kryptonian genome was too complex for the organization to crack, so they had to come up with a workaround with tactile telekinesis. It game him flight, super-strength, and limited invulnerability meaning he had a harder time deflecting energy-based attacks. There were other ways for Conner to manipulate it and a future version from Titans Tomorrow eventually evolved it into full telekinesis that could even block Shazam's magical lightning. The half-Kryptonian part came from Geoff Johns run, but he kept the tactile telekinesis and Joshua Williamson's run on Superman affirmed it so Conner still has the potential to be more powerful than Clark.

As for Jon, the point of my previous post was that DC will have to de-age him if they want to use him. I imagine a cost analysis would show that there is greater potential in merchandising and cross-media potential in Super Sons than there is with Teen Jon. Look at Battle of the Super Sons, which ignored Teen Jon and focused on Kid Jon's dynamic with Damian Wayne. Super Sons was property with all-ages appeal. Teen Jon appeals to such a small (albeit vocal) demographic that is so economically insignificant that the backlash would be toothless. Same with the entertainment media as they would move on after a week. Part of it may be editorial inertia and the unwillingness of the company to admit that they royally screwed up when they brought Bendis on board. They quietly rolled back his changes, but the aging-up of Jon has become narrative kryptonite for the company.
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I know that Jeramy Adams wants to deage Jon so that's something
 
Jetpack Himmler said:
His original Cadmus origin stated that the Kryptonian genome was too complex for the organization to crack, so they had to come up with a workaround with tactile telekinesis. It game him flight, super-strength, and limited invulnerability meaning he had a harder time deflecting energy-based attacks. There were other ways for Conner to manipulate it and a future version from Titans Tomorrow eventually evolved it into full telekinesis that could even block Shazam's magical lightning. The half-Kryptonian part came from Geoff Johns run, but he kept the tactile telekinesis and Joshua Williamson's run on Superman affirmed it so Conner still has the potential to be more powerful than Clark.

As for Jon, the point of my previous post was that DC will have to de-age him if they want to use him. I imagine a cost analysis would show that there is greater potential in merchandising and cross-media potential in Super Sons than there is with Teen Jon. Look at Battle of the Super Sons, which ignored Teen Jon and focused on Kid Jon's dynamic with Damian Wayne. Super Sons was property with all-ages appeal. Teen Jon appeals to such a small (albeit vocal) demographic that is so economically insignificant that the backlash would be toothless. Same with the entertainment media as they would move on after a week. Part of it may be editorial inertia and the unwillingness of the company to admit that they royally screwed up when they brought Bendis on board. They quietly rolled back his changes, but the aging-up of Jon has become narrative kryptonite for the company.
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I mean the way to fix Jon is obvious, it was literally how they fixed his dad during Rebirth, he’s already got the gimmick. It’s only held back by the little shits from Warworld

Blue: Current Jon

Red: True Jon

Just like Clark you have the one that is (New 52/Teen Jon) and the one that was (Post-Crisis/Rebirth Jon)

Except instead of merging them, off one so the other can live. They can’t de-age Jon cause then you have a gay ten year old, he’s gotta be killed off, just like the New 52 cuck died so the one true Superman could return.

Hell, make a mini showing where real Jon has been. My ideal would be a Terminator 2 homage where Jon’s finding his way home and a small trinket in his backpack is just the Tim Burton version of the Eradicator, where it took the form of whatever Clark needed (teddy bear secretly being a guardian) and Clark, ever the sneaky guy gave Jon a keychain, carrying a programmed piece of the original Eradicator.

The second Jon splits is the second Eradicator assumes “guardian form” and you get John Connor and Uncle Bob wandering space and time.
IMG_0310.jpeg
Eradicator grows and while it doesn’t like Jon initially (half-breed) the machine is loyal to Kal-El and wants to be in the House of El’s future. Jon mirrors Teen Jon in being with a weirdo who looks exactly like his dad but unlike Ultraman, the Eradicator doesn’t back down and always puts him first. Jon becomes the only one in the Superfamily who believes in the machine and it loosely mirrors Teen Jon in Injustice when Eradicator kills Rebirth Eradicator ( following the theme of removing failed duplicates) or even bring in Henshaw so you can have the guy who acts like the Terminator vs the guy who looks like the Terminator, in a proper rematch, evoking the T-800 vs T-1000. All while Jon finally points out how weird it is that so many rogues of Superman look exactly like him.

Boom, you get the two back. The Superfamily gets the boy and the wild card back, the two get developed. Then you get rid of the brats, kill Teen Jon or write him off, deport or preferably kill Kenan, pick a Kara and get rid of the other, send Connor back to the Titans and you have a pruned Superfamily. With a dad, mom, son, cool aunt, weird and dangerous uncle and the dog.

Then have Jason Todd, Eradicator and Artemis reform the Outlaws.
 
Clyde Cash's Left Teste said:
I know that Jeramy Adams wants to deage Jon so that's something
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And he has the clout at DC since he brought Wally West back to the fore (without sacrificing Barry Allen) and has been killing it on both Green Lantern and Aquaman. He's also writing The Kids Are All Fight special so maybe it'll happen there because of the timeline collapse, but I learned not to hold my breath.
 
Jetpack Himmler said:
And he has the clout at DC since he brought Wally West back to the fore (without sacrificing Barry Allen) and has been killing it on both Green Lantern and Aquaman. He's also writing The Kids Are All Fight special so maybe it'll happen there because of the timeline collapse, but I learned not to hold my breath.
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That's the thing I wouldn't be surprised happens in Kids are All Fight.

I dropped GL at the start of the year because it was too fast a read for the price point.

Like we all know young Jon is going to come back at some point because everything ends up coming back at some point in comics
 
Jetpack Himmler said:
All of this shows a pattern of Jon being both passive and ineffectual. Clark was empathetic, sure, but he always took decisive action while Jon just thought he could win people over with hugs and speeches.
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Honestly, it'd be an interesting retcon if this Jon reflects on himself before triggering some set of events that reverts him to being a child and wiping the memories clean. Let him tearfully admit he's messed up before taking some sort of huge sacrifice and disappears. Jay disappears forever and we find out that the real Lois never came back from that trip with Jor-El.

Sets up so much shit. We don't even have to overtly link homosexuality to childhood trauma.
 
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