Sperg about comic books here

[DocAwe]

The x-books aren't doing so hot

No, they aren't.
There are too many of them and the story is confusing, scattered, and just mediocre.
They still do ok because... X-Men.

 

[MrJokerRager]

Spider-Man could have been that, or used to be that, before Marvel decided to turn Peter into the man that has been cucked to death.

I wonder how long it will take them to turn Bruce into a cuckold. They might even go and reveal that Damian is Bane's kid for funnsies.

Marvel Comics hatred of Spiderman is quite something to behold.

Seems to be the only thing Marvel really has going is Spider-Man and X-Books.
Batman is definitely the keystone of DC but I feel like the overall spread of content is better.

The Fantastic Four comic runs by North are decent, though the artwork has downgraded.

 

[Godchu]

Been browsing GetComics more and more recently, sifting through the Ganges sludge for anything that looks remotely interesting and reading it. It's very fun and I would recommend it to anyone with the patience to this as well. Some of my favorite stories I only found by picking shit at random with no prior knowledge and hoping for the best. Wish there was an equivalent site for manga (and not some reading-only crap. I like downloading stories.)

For some reason there's a TON of detective / serial killer stuff on there. Probably second only to superhero stuff—and I really don't know why. It's bizarre.

---

Anyway, currently reading this one story, "Gone." It's about the disparity between the rich and the poor... it says so right in the blurb... and what I think are Communist revolutionaries, though I've only just finished reading the first issue so I'm not sure.

It's a very spiteful story. And for what it's about it's understandable. But my main problem with it, and the reason I decided to make this post, is that it feels disingenuous. The story present a world of extreme social stratification. Elites that live like gods or else kings while treating everyone else like slaves, to kowtow to their every whim. The lowest rungs of society (of which our protagonist is naturally a part of) live in absolute squalor outrageous even by shithole standards. Stealing just to survive......All of this just sounds like India. How am I supposed to feel sympathy for the protagonist's plight if I know in any reality this could feasibly exist in she would be the lowest form of nigger imaginable? Little more than an ape, and perhaps even lower...Not to mention the revolutionaries seem kinda retarted, too, though the story so far doesn't seem to treat them as heroes.

Otherwise, I mean it's alright.

E: Thought I was onto something, but nevermind. The rest of the story drops all those ideas for a completely different plot about zombies and daddy issues partway through. The complete lack of worldbuilding doesn't help either. It's a shame. You could have done a lot with the initial premise.

 

[DocAwe]

I like Dstlry.
The magazine format is awesome.
Currently waiting for Endeavor 3 to drop.

 

[Gimmighoul]

i’d like to pick your brains a little bit (and also apologize if this counts as derailing!)

what would you suggest to an absolute newbie? literally anything for any reason. i’ve always been interested but also have really bad choice paralysis

i already have things like the killing joke, hellboy, and watchmen on the agenda. but i’d love to have more in general. i’m open to anything

 

[Humble Architect]

i’d like to pick your brains a little bit (and also apologize if this counts as derailing!)

what would you suggest to an absolute newbie? literally anything for any reason. i’ve always been interested but also have really bad choice paralysis

i already have things like the killing joke, hellboy, and watchmen on the agenda. but i’d love to have more in general. i’m open to anything

Depends on what you want.

Prestiege mini series?

Ongoings?

Definitive runs?

 

[UnsufficentBoobage]

i’m open to anything

Just read Elseworlds and self-contained stories untill you realise what exactly you enjoy, then look if that author wrote any mainline comic.

 

[DocAwe]

i’d like to pick your brains a little bit (and also apologize if this counts as derailing!)

what would you suggest to an absolute newbie? literally anything for any reason. i’ve always been interested but also have really bad choice paralysis

i already have things like the killing joke, hellboy, and watchmen on the agenda. but i’d love to have more in general. i’m open to anything

Blackest night.

 

[strumpets exeunt]

i’d like to pick your brains a little bit (and also apologize if this counts as derailing!)

what would you suggest to an absolute newbie? literally anything for any reason. i’ve always been interested but also have really bad choice paralysis

i already have things like the killing joke, hellboy, and watchmen on the agenda. but i’d love to have more in general. i’m open to anything

I would go with "Marvels" by Alex Ross and Kurt Busiek for Marvel, and "New Frontier" by Darwyn Cooke for DC. Neither will give you the current status quo of the characters, but it's a good introduction to a lot of them at their most iconic.

 

[Cactuar King]

i’d like to pick your brains a little bit (and also apologize if this counts as derailing!)

what would you suggest to an absolute newbie? literally anything for any reason. i’ve always been interested but also have really bad choice paralysis

i already have things like the killing joke, hellboy, and watchmen on the agenda. but i’d love to have more in general. i’m open to anything

If you're into sci-fi, read Dark Horse's Star Wars run, Star Wars 1998, preferably starting with issue 18 when John Ostrander and Jan Duursema start writing. It segues into the Republic Comics after issue 45, which covers the Clone Wars and then that segues into Dark Times.

 

[King Metalia]

No, they aren't.
There are too many of them and the story is confusing, scattered, and just mediocre.
They still do ok because... X-Men.

I was going to say it feels like Marvel's trying to over correct after the years of sidelining the X-Men when fox owned the film rights.

 

[MrJokerRager]

 

[Anonitolia]

i’d like to pick your brains a little bit (and also apologize if this counts as derailing!)

what would you suggest to an absolute newbie? literally anything for any reason. i’ve always been interested but also have really bad choice paralysis

i already have things like the killing joke, hellboy, and watchmen on the agenda. but i’d love to have more in general. i’m open to anything

(note: I can only speak on Marvel as it's all I've read so far)

I'm going to second Marvels as your first book, with an added note that it's better if you don't look anything about it up. Read the book, then return to it every once and again when you've read more comics. It just gets better and better over time, and it's an absolute delight whenever you notice something new. Also, avoid every spin-off. Eye of the Camera and Epilogue are alright, but everything else is unmitigated trash. Only Epilogue gets anywhere close to the original's level of quality, likely due to it being done by the same creative team. (It really is gorgeous, if nothing else, and I'd recommend reading it just for the art. If you want more pure eye candy, the artist has done lots of other work for the Big Two and others. He and the original writer of Marvels, Kurt Busiek, also have their own spin-off thing (unrelated to the Big Two, still to do with superheroes) called Astro City that I've heard is worth reading.)

I personally love old Defenders issues like nothing else. I seem to be in the minority, unfortunately, but I treasure them as some of the best lighthearted fun I've ever had. (This is especially impressive given that my favorite character jobs outrageously in almost every single issue he appears in.) Issues #1-101 are all very solid, with a brief drop in quality when Ed Hannigan takes over writing duties somewhere around the #60s, but I read until the 110s and still enjoyed myself (albeit, for the wrong reasons at that point. There's a stretch from about 107 'til 114 that is extremely convoluted in a car crash way that's hard to look away from, and unintentionally very amusing). Don't go in expecting a masterpiece or some kind of deep philosophy-- it's dumb fun and very proud of it, with a lot of love given to characterization and wacky foes as opposed to grand melodrama or deep ponderings. All of the Giant-Size books are also absolutely worth reading and only get better as they go on. The team gets completely revamped in #125, which I can't comment on (as I haven't read it yet), so if you want a good stopping point for the old team I'd recommend reading #101 and then calling it a day. It's a very sweet issue that works as a perfect send-off.

After the original 1972 run, if you still want more Defenders, please do not read anything published past 2005. There are only two Defenders books really worth anything after the original run: Kurt Busiek's 2001 love letter to Gerber that's technically one part of two (but I won't link the second here because it spoils the first part's plot with its premise) and J.M. DeMatteis' 2005 shitpost that's entirely for shits and giggles (as well as weirdly acclaimed, for reasons I do not understand. It's funny, I guess, but I personally found it oddly bitter in a way that put me off properly enjoying it). Everything else either has to do with a completely different team that's unrelated to the first, generally poor quality, or pure nostalgiabaiting that fails to give itself an identity outside of memberberries.

Just read Elseworlds and self-contained stories untill you realise what exactly you enjoy, then look if that author wrote any mainline comic.

Is also decent advice, though applying it to Marvel means less Elseworld (that's DC terminology) and more one-shot minis in alternate universes. For those, I'll recommend 1602 (with a caveat that it's best enjoyed with less preexisting knowledge (I enjoy it ironically more than I do sincerely), despite it being relatively competent; also, all of its spin-offs are very very bad) and Bullet Points for the completely unaware, and Marvel Zombies (only the first, which is linked) for the slightly-more aware. None are spectacular, but they are interesting.

Marvel's Graphic Novels are also worth giving a look, but work best with more knowledge of specific characters. A lot of teams and characters have very good stories in here, some of which are also very important to their characters. The New Mutants made their debut in the fourth issue, for instance, while the X-Men had one of their most famous and beloved outings immediately after. Doctor Doom also gets a good showing, with both Triumph and Torment and Emperor Doom being equally revered, and Captain Marvel (the original)'s most notable story is very probably the first of these novels ever put to print.

I will personally vouch for every single Dr. Strange story in there, because they're both absolutely gorgeous (in both art and writing, though both are clearly stronger in one pursuit than the other) and I just really love all of Strange's classic stuff.

Quick tangent about the books he debuted in: Strange Tales isn't a terrible jumping-off point for getting into Marvel, obvious bias aside, since it becomes a sort of hero anthology from issue #100 onward and stars some very important characters to the universe's overall mythos. The Fantastic Four as a whole are very important to the universe and have one of the best Silver Age showings out there, but the Strange Tales stories that focus on just The Human Torch (and, later, The Thing) are a little easier to digest and smaller in scale than the main team's outer-space adventures; Nick Fury becomes much more important to world events later on, but he's good for some more grounded action stories until then if that's what you're looking for; Dr. Strange himself starts off a little slow, but Ditko's art and scripting really get the ball rolling past his first few issues and make Strange's showing in Strange Tales very much worth reading. (I've heard it's not for everyone, but I am not everyone.) Also worth noting that Strange got his name from the book, not the other way around, because Dr. Strange is absent for the first 14 superhero-focused issues and seems to be more well-known than the series itself.

Returning to Strange: if you like him specifically, I'd recommend the entire run of Master of the Mystic Arts alongside Marvel Premiere (issues #3-14). They're absolutely peak Dr. Strange and almost entirely good, with the former only really dropping off near the end (and on some guest stories near it). There's one run between Strange Tales and Premiere (which is followed by Master of the Mystic Arts): Roy Thomas' 1968 run, which is a little controversial and very short. It's alright, and I do like the first half of its final story, but you aren't missing much if you choose to skip it. The aforementioned graphic novels are also stellar: Into Shamballa is worth it just for its beautiful art, while Triumph and Torment has great art that's backed up by an even greater story.
Avoid everything revolving around him published after 1985. The character was assassinated badly in the 90s and hasn't really recovered since, save for brief sparks of life (like those aforementioned Defenders issues or a scrapped classic-era story published decades after) that don't completely screw him up.

If you, for some god forsaken reason, want to read the X-Men, start with Giant Size X-Men (ONLY the first issue) and continue reading the main line from there (starting specifically from issue #94). Do be warned that it is home to the single longest run of any Marvel writer in history, with Chris Claremont writing for the team from the mid-70s all the way until the early 90s, and it eventually grows into a sprawling saga that involves multiple books (New Mutants, X-Factor, etc.) and endless convolution. I personally think it's a little overrated, with only the mid-70s to early 80s really worth reading (and even then, I hesitate to outright recommend the stuff), but it's frequently cited as some of the best comicking in Big Two history, so... take my opinion with a grain of salt.

As for everything else... I can't comment on it to anywhere near this extent, unfortunately. I'm taking the route of deep-diving specific characters/teams all at once, so my knowledge is super narrow atm and mostly concentrated into what I've laid out to you. The most I have to go off of beyond that are these extremely old recommendation compilations, most of which are outdated and honestly not all that great (so I've annotated them to remove some of the shitty bits), and appearances of other characters in crossovers or company-wide events (like the Contest of Champions or Swimsuit Specials). The outdated recommendations are the best I've got, though, so I'm still linking them here. If you see anything written by one Brian Michael Bendis, run for the hills. Also do this if the author listed is Jason Aaron, Matt Fraction, Dan Slott, Mark Millar, or really most writers past the 2000s. Most comics past the 90s may as well be in a different universe.



When you find someone/something specific you'd like to read properly, consult cmro.travis-starnes.com and search for your character/team/event of choosing. The website has a pretty in-depth index of everything from before ~2020ish. Character pages will list every single appearance of the character (including single-panel nonspeaking cameos) in proper order, so if you just want to read every single comic from one single character then go for it. I did that for Dr. Strange and it took me months of nonstop reading to finish all the good stuff. I also did it for the X-Men, which I'm linking here due to the aforementioned multiple-title convolution (seriously, you will need this site if you want to keep track of them from the 80s onward), and I'm currently doing it with the Fantastic Four. It's a very handy tool-guide and worth keeping open in a separate tab all throughout your reading session if you're anal about reading order, continuity, or reading any event from the 90s onward.

It should obviously be said that my word is not gospel, take my recommendations with a grain of salt, etc. etc. I'm no devotee, I'm about as fresh as you (only started reading around August last year), but I had a lot of free time for unfortunate reasons that I poured into binging this stuff. If nothing else, my opinions are coming from a place of detached curiosity and not nostalgic fawning.
Also: I have weird tastes. Like, even in the context of comic book readers, I seem to be pretty abnormal. Most people might prefer you begin with some Avengers or Iron Man/Cap/F4 stories, which is probably a better idea since those guys are much more representative of their genre than my picks. I'm just throwing out what I personally love because I can. All of this recommendation stuff depends on what you're looking for, which you've made pretty vague. So I've taken that vagueity as an excuse to gush about my favorites and hail them as the greatest.

Whether you take the mass's advice and begin with the icons or take mine and start with some random anon's favorites, I hope you enjoy reading this stuff regardless. It's not high art, but it can be damn good entertainment when it wants to be.

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EDIT: also worth saving stuff like Watchmen, Kingdom Come, The Dark Knight Rises, and any of that deconstructionist stuff for after you've read lots of comics-- it hits harder that way and makes more sense. Also makes it easier to understand why they were so lauded upon their releases. Watchmen is mostly a riff on the Golden Age specifically, so if you want it to make you maximally embarrassed then go read a bunch of Golden Age stuff before powering through it

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

I recently got Catwoman's DC Finest books as well as the DC Finest introducing Wonder Woman. Selina's origin as a prostitute makes her a lot more complex. I also like the issue that goes into her childhood in the orphanage and how she first got a taste of cat burglaring. Problem with Catwoman's first ongoing solo title is the fact that it ends trapped in crossover events. (Similar to Rucka's mid 00 Wonder Woman run.) It does include the story released around the time Michelle Pfeiffer's iconic take on the character in Batman Returns was out.

Someone mentioned Batman originally killing people and dropping them from buildings? Well you won't be prepared for Wonder Woman. Shit is crazy. Bondage bondage bondage. It's tame nowadays but borderline fetish (at one point her eyes are taped shut). It would make it boring and creepy if not for Marston's idea. She always frees herself. Now don't get me started on the giant paddles, the kangaroos, the Holliday Girls. Etta Candy is a fatass but she's actually fun because she'll cut a bitch for you. Steve Trevor gets captured which is a nice change of pace. We do not talk about the Blue Snowman. Or Egg Fu. I do like that instead of nazi death they gave Paula Von Gunther a chance to set things right. Never read golden age Supes but I know silver age Superman is a dick and Lois and Jimmy go on some extremely wild adventures.

Thoughts on Doom Patrol? Where do I start? Do I go with the 60s run? 80s?

 

[GloryHole Stalker]

Marvel Comics hatred of Spiderman is quite something to behold.

How far the mighty have fallen. When I was growing up in the 80s you couldn't take a shit without seeing Spidey's face staring back at you from the bowl, lol.

Seriously though, what did they do to ruin Spidey and why? Other than the Hulk, I mostly tuned out of comics in the 90s.

 

[Burt Ryan]

How far the mighty have fallen. When I was growing up in the 80s you couldn't take a shit without seeing Spidey's face staring back at you from the bowl, lol.

Seriously though, what did they do to ruin Spidey and why? Other than the Hulk, I mostly tuned out of comics in the 90s.

As a not Spider-Man fan, and following One More Day, I think Marvel Editorial cannot decide whether to have Peter be a teenager or an adult. And also have MJ cuck him at every chance possible, be it with Paul or Venom.

 

[Anon88]

i’d like to pick your brains a little bit (and also apologize if this counts as derailing!)

what would you suggest to an absolute newbie? literally anything for any reason. i’ve always been interested but also have really bad choice paralysis

i already have things like the killing joke, hellboy, and watchmen on the agenda. but i’d love to have more in general. i’m open to anything

One thing about superhero comics is that if you know the basics behind the characters. (Powers, origin, supporting characters, which you can get from a simple Wikipedia page.) you can read basically whatever you want without any issue. The popular characters have long running series but outside a few references here and there you don’t need to know what happened before to really understand story arcs as everything you need to know is usually spelled out for you at the beginning of arcs. If your feeling overwhelmed just find one character/team you think looks cool or you know a little about and just read the most popular/most interesting stories and don’t pay attention to anything else until your finished with them. That’s what I did as a kid when I was first getting into comics. I’m a team guy so I would recommend Clarmount’s X-Men, the Defenders, Wolfman’s Teen Titans and Levtis LSH which are all good places to start for those respective series.

Thoughts on Doom Patrol? Where do I start? Do I go with the 60s run? 80s?

I’ve only read the newest one, unbreakable or something I think it was called. I liked it and it understood everything going on despite having next to no knowledge about the series before.

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

personally love old Defenders issues like nothing else. I seem to be in the minority, unfortunately, but I treasure them as some of the best lighthearted fun I've ever had. (This is especially impressive given that my favorite character jobs outrageously in almost every single issue he appears in.) Issues

I read all of the Defenders up to the end of the Gerber run.

I just love that Hulk legit sees them as friends.

 

[Jetpack Himmler]

American comics has never learned anything good from manga, because the things that actually make manga successful are anathema to modern American comics.

Specifically,
1. Affordability.
2. Demographic targeting.
3. Weekly/Monthly release schedule.
4. 100% merit-based.
5. Experienced editors.
6. Rigorous artist mentorships/training.
7. Author retains some ownership rights to the characters and stories they create.

Yes, indeed. Characters became corporate IP from the get-go so the companies could replace creative teams ad infinitum from the 1940s to the heat death of the universe. The moral panic of the 1950s pretty much forced comics into the ghetto of children's entertainment so they never became as culturally ubiquitous as manga or sophisticated like the Franco-Belgian comics. We saw the slow deaths of the western, sci-fi genres with war comics finally giving up the ghost in the 80s.

Meanwhile, the industry contracted until it became as incestuous as a Hapsburg family reunion. You have a small clique running the show with editors to spineless to hold back their worst excesses. I look at Bendis as a prime example as (I've said countless times) the Teen Jon debacle would not have happened if someone told him that it was far too dark (negligence, abandonment, imprisonment/social isolation of a minor, years of psychological torment) and undermined the moral underpinnings of the Superman mythos. It's quickly becoming a case of the inmates running the asylum while the fans move on to the more coherent manga titles.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

i’d like to pick your brains a little bit (and also apologize if this counts as derailing!)

what would you suggest to an absolute newbie? literally anything for any reason. i’ve always been interested but also have really bad choice paralysis

i already have things like the killing joke, hellboy, and watchmen on the agenda. but i’d love to have more in general. i’m open to anything

I guess it depends on what you're into. I've been out of the industry for a decade now so most of my recommendations are old but you can still find most of them.

For Batman, my recommendation used to be Hush because it gives you all the side characters so you can know who is who in Batman's world.

Fifty-Two is also a good one for getting to know the lesser known characters in DC.

Green Lantern Rebirth was written to be a starting point.

Alan Moore's Swamp Thing is good to check out.

Daredevil I recommend Frank Miller's run because it's what a lot of modern Daredevil comics base their interpretation on.

Captain America, Ed Brubaker's run starts with the Winter Soldier being introduced so if you're a fan of him in the movies that's a good place to start.

Punisher MAX by Garth Ennis is one of my favorites of all time.

If you like Hellboy I'd recommend The Sixth Gun from Oni Press. And if you liked the Scott Pilgrim movie, it cut out a lot of Scott's character development so I'd get the GNs.

If you like Crime Noir I'd recommend Criminal by Ed Brubaker and Sean Phillips

100 Bullets is my favorite Vertigo series so I always recommend that.

Also from Vertigo: Sandman, Fables, The Unwritten, Lucifer, Transmetropolitan, Scalped, DMZ, Y The Last Man, Ex Machina, Sleeper and Preacher