Sperg about comic books here

[Alexander Thaut]

It was a pretty good time IMO. I felt like characters were actually maturing and moving forward in ways they hadn't in years. But they wanted to go back to the status quo.

i get the vibe that dan didio kept trying to bring everything back to some status quo and it just doesn't work when you axe like 30% of the major books and then reset the chronology.

 

[Red Hood]

i get the vibe that dan didio kept trying to bring everything back to some status quo and it just doesn't work when you axe like 30% of the major books and then reset the chronology.

Plus, Didio and Johns are both Silver Age fetishists. I was fine with bringing Hal Jordan back into the lanterns; I was less fine with Barry Allen becoming the main Flash again and it just kind of spiraled from there.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Plus, Didio and Johns are both Silver Age fetishists. I was fine with bringing Hal Jordan back into the lanterns; I was less fine with Barry Allen becoming the main Flash again and it just kind of spiraled from there.

i think n52 fucked it all up by removing all of the development.

it's funny because we could have potentially had 2 flash books, one with barry and then another with wally.

Dan fucked up, Johns and Lee are left running the show but get kneecapped by n52 limitations.

like man, who the fuck was invested in the n52 when they refused to get a coherent event going with proper setup.

and, JLA vs Suicide Squad. Really? All that did was bring back Eclipso and foreshadow things. It was interesting but it kinda turned into the LOBO SHOW.

And I love me some MAIN MAN but lmfao what'd they ever do with Maxwell Lord after that event? I kinda wish they'd bring back the JLI Max when he wasn't a villain.

 

[Cyber Bowling]

Honestly, unpopular opinion here but DC had some of the best Batfam ever right before N52. Specifically before Bruce came back. The Batfamily essentially pared down to Dick, Barbara, Steph, and Damian had a fantastic dynamic and weren't clogged with as many extraneous characters.

Honestly you could pose them as an almost nuclear family, with crazy uncle Jason and grumpy grandpa Bruce dropping by once in a while. It sounds like a sitcom when I talk about it like that.

I don't think this is unpopular, IIRC it was around this time a lot of people turned around on Damian. I think they were still struggling with Tim, but he was at least there and actively doing things as Red Robin. If my memory isn't completely botched, which I admit it might be, it felt like they were setting him up to potentially be more of an anti-hero who was willing to bend the rules more than the other Batfam. I was also a big fan of Steph as Batgirl, but I admit that might fully be nostalgia/thinking her costume looked cool.

The first series that really hooked me and got me into DC was the miniseries 52, and part of that was the focus on some of the lesser known characters. Not to say the "main" characters were bad or anything, but it feels like they were taking bigger swings with the lesser known ones. I'm not sure if it was a case of editors being more relaxed because, if worse comes to worse, they just ditch the character and nobody will really care. Or maybe it's a case of the writers who decided to write for those characters really felt strongly about telling their stories and that's why they got them in the first place. Whatever it was, it was working.

I think DC has been more or less a trash fire lately, with most of their good titles being out of continuity things, but I'm also optimistic they can start turning out decent stuff again, they just need to get back on track and stop leaning so much into reality shattering events.

 

[Red Hood]

I swear though, if you at this point told me a comic introduced a new straight, white male character I'd swear it was an Onion article. Especially if the character had red hair.

There are no more "everyman" characters introduced, every new person is just a special snowflake that appeals to five people in the whole world.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

Ordered Fables Compendium 2. 3 will be out this month with 4 coming in August.
JLD omnibus coming out soon yay.

 

[CryoRevival #SJ-112]

@Prehistoric Jazz I'm rereading The Authority and notice that you also seem to like Midnighter. Are there any other actually good comics with him?
I was not able to complete the book where he was just there to gaybait Nightwing, but am willing to give it another chance if it gets better later on.

 

[I Love Beef]

yeah it just went down some westernized mangling of Chinese mysticism or powers and then fizzled out.

Still bad outside of something ala Red Son Superman. Unless you want to brilliantly deconstruct China in a master piece with subtlety it just doesn't work. That's not what they did and it went about as well as I expected.

All of that was just fan fetish bait for the powerlevel spergs hoping to out do Goku. I can tell it was them wanting to make an Earth mythology all encompassing in the universe like with Phoenix, but it's pretty shallow as shit imo. Nevermind the fact that The Question saved Superman's ass, and it would be fun material for, gasp, an actual story of Superman learning up on Kyrptonian esoterica and vitalism for an arc with meat and content, but lol no, garish power struggle in fighting go.

As for the whole China market thing, man, I'm glad I'm still full 2000s diehard animu fan. It's one thing to try to make it big in Japan, it's another thinking China of all places is a "potential market." I'd say something about the 2000s telling them anything about getting in touch with what's in and not just popular but with substance that people can relate and sustain themselves with, but this is just beyond clueless by now.

 

[Prehistoric Jazz]

@CryoRevival #SJ-112 I dont know if it got better, but it was odd seeing him interact with bat family characters. His Kev appearances were amusing. I liked the Capt Atom armageddon mini and the Midnighter and apollo book. If the art's worthwhile, I can almost forgive a subpar narrative. Almost. Oh, his suicide squad appearance was fun.

 

[glass_houses]

I've got a metre long box of X-Men comics from late 90s/ early 00s that's taking up a lot of room, and I'm considering selling it on. It won't be worth much because young me absolutely trashed my comics, but I'm sure a nostalgia fan would take up the offer of reading copies. I'm sentimental about the collection because I was so hugely into the X-Men then, but it's literal decades since I was into them and now the entire comic line is just cancer. Dirty, nasty stinking cancer. I don't know. What should I do?

 

[Prehistoric Jazz]

X sell em for cheap

X use the least-marred pages and covers to decorate a surface/wall

X keep em forever

 

[Migurdia]

I'm not really surprised at the Tim Drake stuff. In fact didn't DC do the same thing with Selina Kyle during her New 52 run? Difference is nobody really gave a shit, one because Catwoman is a slut anyway and two that was during the time where the whole super progressive movement wasn't in full swing yet. So DC quietly swept that under the rug. With Tim though they hit the jackpot in terms of timing and are now raking in praise from twitter and tumblr, two sites with userbases who want every character in existence to be LGBT.

Speaking of Catwoman what the fuck is Tom King doing with that Batman/Catwoman run? I only recently checked it out because I forgot it even existed and the entire thing is so weirdly structured. There's also this strange dynamic between Catwoman and Joker where it feels like King wants them to fuck.

 

[jspit2.0]

I enjoyed his All Star Squadron stuff, but I think he handled Amazing Man and Tsunami a little too ham-fistedly. But, I'll admit it had that comic book corniness that made me just take it as it was.

Yeah. It didn't hurt to have Jerry Ordway

But yeah, Roy had a bad habit of putting trash into otherwise great comics.

This idea sorta works well. Hell, Superman/Wonder Woman don't age like normal people so the only weird thing would be the Batman family itself. I could see this being fun, but it'd take a little time to setup.

That was the first reboot. Paul Levitz, Joe Staton, and (sigh) Gerry Conway. They aged the characters into the modern day, gave them ongoing stories, and they had kids. It was really nice fan service and we got Huntress, Powergirl, and some others out of the deal.

Sadly the implosion took it out I think. After that Thomas two or three years into All Stars brought the idea back in Infinity Inc, which ran alongside All Star but was set in the present day in continuity with the Adventure run.

Sadly, IC and the Levitz/Co mandates that there could be only one Earth and one timeline ruined allot this. Infinity and All Star limped on but never recovered and the series ended.

DC tried to resurrect the line in the 90s several times and failed until James Robinson and is odd Golden Age love led to the JSA Johns books.

Wondy being the first hero doesn't work too well. I could buy Sandman or the Crimson Avenger or even Dr. Occult. I mean it could be fun, but she's not exactly a rallying point. Her entire thing in the golden age was starting off as a hopeful and naive young heroine going into the world. This doesn't work too well. However, I can easily see them writing her into. . .the JSA origin story.

1. This gets funnier if we remember DCs old narrative that there were a lot of adventurers and masked vigilantes before the "real" superheroes appeared.

Your right. The idea with Superman being first is he inspires people and makes them feel good. Same with Captain Marvel on his earth. Batman and Sandman are there before, but as urban legends.

I liked the old Legion stuff, but it just kinda fucked up after 3 reboots and DC repeatedly pulling the plug.

Well, I guess. DC fucked it up with Infinite Crisis and the weird retcons because Superboy in the post Byrne era couldn't exist. The Reboot in the 90s is actually a hidden gem. Roger Stern, Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning. I think its the best you can get without Superboy and Legion Lost is amazing.

The Waid/Kitson Reboot is terrible and I never got into it. Shooter came in and I understand even he couldn't save it.

Johns was...

Sure, make her a Captain Britain. Hey, anyone remember the other Captain Britain-related heroine they were shilling right before Vision blew up the Avengers mansion?

View attachment 2442188

Chuck Austen. Seriously though.

Becky is Captain Britain. She was in the 80s. It just, wasn't for her. She's an X-man and too deeply tied to the American team.

Besides, Brian is Cap Brit for a reason.

Can you picture Psylock, written in character, letting a teen girl talk to her like that? She's just not cut out for it.

I get the feeling this "Tim is bi" thing will come and go like the dumb switch to his "Drake" identity that barely lasted a year and then got explained away with "Yeah, he just dropped it for reasons. Stop asking questions about it"

I don't know. I think we all dream of it. But Bobby Drake still gay. SJWs never let them go. The only example of sanity is after giving Selina a girl love interest they promptly moved on and ignored it...for a couple of years.

Invincible Compendium Volumes 1, 2 and 3 are back on the market after being sold out early in the year due to the popularity of the animated series on Amazon Prime.

I think I might pick up a copy during the beginning of the Fall season.

-silently whispers-

Invincible is just Dragon Ball ripoff plots with a deconstruction in its first fifteen issues that JMS and Gary Frank did better Squadron at Marvel.

Honestly, unpopular opinion here but DC had some of the best Batfam ever right before N52. Specifically before Bruce came back. The Batfamily essentially pared down to Dick, Barbara, Steph, and Damian had a fantastic dynamic and weren't clogged with as many extraneous characters.

Honestly you could pose them as an almost nuclear family, with crazy uncle Jason and grumpy grandpa Bruce dropping by once in a while. It sounds like a sitcom when I talk about it like that.

The Bat family was a shining beacon during some of Batman's worst periods. When SJW Ruck and Brubaker turned the books to shit; you still had Robin, Batgirl, BoP and Nightwing. Between Red Robin, Stephgirl, Dini GCS SoG, and Outsiders you had some good shit if you didn't want BatGod trekking through history tripping on Anti-life beams or whatever.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Yeah. It didn't hurt to have Jerry Ordway

View attachment 2446161

But yeah, Roy had a bad habit of putting trash into otherwise great comics.

View attachment 2446181


That was the first reboot. Paul Levitz, Joe Staton, and (sigh) Gerry Conway. They aged the characters into the modern day, gave them ongoing stories, and they had kids. It was really nice fan service and we got Huntress, Powergirl, and some others out of the deal.

View attachment 2446187

Sadly the implosion took it out I think. After that Thomas two or three years into All Stars brought the idea back in Infinity Inc, which ran alongside All Star but was set in the present day in continuity with the Adventure run.

View attachment 2446200

Sadly, IC and the Levitz/Co mandates that there could be only one Earth and one timeline ruined allot this. Infinity and All Star limped on but never recovered and the series ended.

DC tried to resurrect the line in the 90s several times and failed until James Robinson and is odd Golden Age love led to the JSA Johns books.



Your right. The idea with Superman being first is he inspires people and makes them feel good. Same with Captain Marvel on his earth. Batman and Sandman are there before, but as urban legends.



Well, I guess. DC fucked it up with Infinite Crisis and the weird retcons because Superboy in the post Byrne era couldn't exist. The Reboot in the 90s is actually a hidden gem. Roger Stern, Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning. I think its the best you can get without Superboy and Legion Lost is amazing.

The Waid/Kitson Reboot is terrible and I never got into it. Shooter came in and I understand even he couldn't save it.

Johns was...




Chuck Austen. Seriously though.

Becky is Captain Britain. She was in the 80s. It just, wasn't for her. She's an X-man and too deeply tied to the American team.

Besides, Brian is Cap Brit for a reason.

View attachment 2446254

Can you picture Psylock, written in character, letting a teen girl talk to her like that? She's just not cut out for it.



I don't know. I think we all dream of it. But Bobby Drake still gay. SJWs never let them go. The only example of sanity is after giving Selina a girl love interest they promptly moved on and ignored it...for a couple of years.



-silently whispers-

Invincible is just Dragon Ball ripoff plots with a deconstruction in its first fifteen issues that JMS and Gary Frank did better Squadron at Marvel.




The Bat family was a shining beacon during some of Batman's worst periods. When SJW Ruck and Brubaker turned the books to shit; you still had Robin, Batgirl, BoP and Nightwing. Between Red Robin, Stephgirl, Dini GCS SoG, and Outsiders you had some good shit if you didn't want BatGod trekking through history tripping on Anti-life beams or whatever.

honestly wasn't the whole REAL AMERICAN schtick just some robot in the end. i forget if it was Nazis making them.

Wondy isn't going to hold up an era on her own. She works best as part of any trinity, but not as the lynchpin.

hot take:

the original crisis didn't need to condense everything into one world. they could have kept it as a sort of mystery or just open ended.

hell they scuttled the JSA for a while. Don't know why, because it would have been smarter to just incorporate the golden agers properly


My issue with a lot of post-original crisis shit is that a lot of it was editorial messiness. Limiting the JLA so we got the JLI was lucky due to the creative team behind it.

Rebooting Wondy and Aquaman was fine. Letting Jason die was fine too.

But like most of the events were just kinda wasted opportunities. the OG Millennium event had some good ideas but then the whole New Guardians thing was kinda crappy. Don't even get me started on how the Armageddon event was wasted and that DC was stupid to not just go through with Monarch being Captain Atom.

and. Zero Hour.

Why you gotta kill the JSA like that, goddamn.

 

[Prehistoric Jazz]

I really liked the JSA run in the late 99s/2000s, mentoring heroes. When Kingdom Come Supes showed up, I was happy. Eaglesham art too.

 

[Giga_Nigga_28]

Honestly, unpopular opinion here but DC had some of the best Batfam ever right before N52. Specifically before Bruce came back. The Batfamily essentially pared down to Dick, Barbara, Steph, and Damian had a fantastic dynamic and weren't clogged with as many extraneous characters.

Honestly you could pose them as an almost nuclear family, with crazy uncle Jason and grumpy grandpa Bruce dropping by once in a while. It sounds like a sitcom when I talk about it like that.

Is that really an unpopular opinion? Pre-n52 was when the Batman franchise was finally seeing some actual growth and moving away from the status quo. A new Batman, Robin and Batgirl who were all established characters still being mentored by the originals meant that there was an actual sense of progression for all the characters involved instead of that abortion that was Marvels ANAD where the classic heroes were humiliated and killed off in service of their 'diverse' replacements.

Honestly having gone back and read issues pror to Morrisons run I can't say I have any issues with how he handled the characters either, I mean pre-morrison Jason was a literal hentai monster and Talia had devolved into Catwoman-lite. His characterization wasn't as off a people claim and imo pillhead anti-hero Jason was superior to the sadboi magic ninja that Lobdell gave us.

 

[Red Hood]

Is that really an unpopular opinion? Pre-n52 was when the Batman franchise was finally seeing some actual growth and moving away from the status quo. A new Batman, Robin and Batgirl who were all established characters still being mentored by the originals meant that there was an actual sense of progression for all the characters involved instead of that abortion that was Marvels ANAD where the classic heroes were humiliated and killed off in service of their 'diverse' replacements.

Honestly having gone back and read issues pror to Morrisons run I can't say I have any issues with how he handled the characters either, I mean pre-morrison Jason was a literal hentai monster and Talia had devolved into Catwoman-lite. His characterization wasn't as off a people claim and imo pillhead anti-hero Jason was superior to the sadboi magic ninja that Lobdell gave us.

People that came in WITH the New 52 jerk off Scott Snyder like there's no tomorrow. I've had a lot of conversations with these people that seem to think it's the unquestioned high point of Batfam stories and this may skew my viewpoint of how it's viewed by the larger public.

I didn't mind Lobdell's take on Red Hood too much (mostly because it was solid pulp adventure that only rarely crossed over into Snyder's wankfest) but Morrison is fucking gold.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Is that really an unpopular opinion? Pre-n52 was when the Batman franchise was finally seeing some actual growth and moving away from the status quo. A new Batman, Robin and Batgirl who were all established characters still being mentored by the originals meant that there was an actual sense of progression for all the characters involved instead of that abortion that was Marvels ANAD where the classic heroes were humiliated and killed off in service of their 'diverse' replacements.

Honestly having gone back and read issues pror to Morrisons run I can't say I have any issues with how he handled the characters either, I mean pre-morrison Jason was a literal hentai monster and Talia had devolved into Catwoman-lite. His characterization wasn't as off a people claim and imo pillhead anti-hero Jason was superior to the sadboi magic ninja that Lobdell gave us.

here''s an opinion.

Birds of Prey, right before n52, was introducing Misfit and White Canary to the Gothamites and we're lesser for not having Misfit be properly pushed and integrated.

also n52 made Helena Bertinelli into a more olive skinned italian which, I don't mind, but the new design's been a tad jarring.

Morrisan was always fun.

People that came in WITH the New 52 jerk off Scott Snyder like there's no tomorrow. I've had a lot of conversations with these people that seem to think it's the unquestioned high point of Batfam stories and this may skew my viewpoint of how it's viewed by the larger public.

I didn't mind Lobdell's take on Red Hood too much (mostly because it was solid pulp adventure that only rarely crossed over into Snyder's wankfest) but Morrison is fucking gold.

i don't get Snyder's popularity. Sure he's fun but they give him too much credit.

 

[Red Hood]

here''s an opinion.

Birds of Prey, right before n52, was introducing Misfit and White Canary to the Gothamites and we're lesser for not having Misfit be properly pushed and integrated.

also n52 made Helena Bertinelli into a more olive skinned italian which, I don't mind, but the new design's been a tad jarring.

Morrisan was always fun.

i don't get Snyder's popularity. Sure he's fun but they give him too much credit.

For whatever reason when people named Snyder get attached to DC properties they tend to inspire a very passionate if myopic fanbase.

 

[Giga_Nigga_28]

People that came in WITH the New 52 jerk off Scott Snyder like there's no tomorrow. I've had a lot of conversations with these people that seem to think it's the unquestioned high point of Batfam stories and this may skew my viewpoint of how it's viewed by the larger public.

I didn't mind Lobdell's take on Red Hood too much (mostly because it was solid pulp adventure that only rarely crossed over into Snyder's wankfest) but Morrison is fucking gold.

Snyders Batman works as a solid entry level take on the character with consistent writing and great art but once you're well versed in the character it's pretty obvious it's just popcorn writing with very little depth. Imo a solid 7/10 though Dotf is honestly pure garbage and I blame it and Endgame for how ridiculous the Joker wank has become over the years. Like, Snyder uses Joker for three of the five arcs and still writes him terribly.

>Lol he like cut off his face isn't that so cool and edgy!
>lol he killed thirty people and put them all in Gothams main reservoir without a soul noticing!
>lmao the Joker just killed a truckload of Gcpd with his bare hands ain't that cool!!!
>Zomg he had control of Arkham for months and completely renovated without the world's greatest detective noticing!!!!
>omg guysss what if Joker was, get this, in love with Batman! Isn't that unique and totally not played out?
>What if he pretended to cut all the Batfamilys faces off and that made them all sad? Isn't that cool?

Endgame was cool cause Batman beat the shit out of Joker and killed him but then Snyder undid that and King and Tynion went back to the tired Joker wank.