Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

GloryHole Stalker said:
The deluge of letters coming into NBC was seen, by NBC, as an annoyance. That's why they made the announcement on one of the episodes hat there would be a new season and that people could stop writing in.
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That's pretty much what they think of all the modern complaints to. The more things change the more they stay the same.

Cactuar King said:
I can't say I blame him. Imagine losing Nimoy, Kelley, Doohan and Nichols and all you have left is Takei.
(And Koenig, I guess)
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The captain is the last man standing. Alone on an empty bridge.
 
GloryHole Stalker said:
That the letter writing campaign was what allowed ST TOS a third season is, of all the myths surrounding that show, the biggest pile of bullshit ever foisted upon an unknowing fanbase.
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What about the story that TOS was finally cancelled because TV ratings back in those days over-emphasized rural audiences at the expense of urban ones like some kind of market research congressional compromise, was that ever legit?
 
Pedophobe said:
What about the story that TOS was finally cancelled because TV ratings back in those days over-emphasized rural audiences at the expense of urban ones like some kind of market research congressional compromise, was that ever legit?
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As I understand it (keep in mind I haven't read up about this shit in years, so I may have forgotten a thing or 2) is that it was cancelled because it's ratings were too low, and even at a reduced budget that they had for season 3 (not to mention it's shitty timelot for that final season, no wonder the ratings got worse, lol) the show was still too expensive to keep it going. What, as I understand it, happened was, soon after its cancellation, they started doing breakdowns of who was actually watching the show, and they found out that among the younger age bracket (the one that advertisers drool over because they are the money spenders), the show was a powerhouse. They almost immediately regretted cancelling the show.
 
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Pedophobe said:
What about the story that TOS was finally cancelled because TV ratings back in those days over-emphasized rural audiences at the expense of urban ones like some kind of market research congressional compromise, was that ever legit?
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I don't know if NBC's demographics people didn't understand their numbers or not, but the CBS Rural Purge kicked off in the 1970-71 season, so two years after Trek left the airwaves. But even so, insiders were already complaining about the westerns, game shows, and variety shows by the mid-60s and those kinds of shows were largely kept around because they were very cheap to make, so extremely profitable.
 
Well, there is a point in the development of a company at which the higher ups/management actually do start hating their customer base. That's usually around the time enshittification sets in. The existence of the internet and the access of billions of normies to it has accelerated that process. We're now at a point where corporations make everything shitty on purpose.
 
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Curzon Dax-sama said:
Well, there is a point in the development of a company at which the higher ups/management actually do start hating their customer base. That's usually around the time enshittification sets in. The existence of the internet and the access of billions of normies to it has accelerated that process. We're not at a point where corporations make everything shitty on purpose.
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Nah, what happens is corporations get so big that they start hiring executives from outside who don't have any connection to the product. Adult Swim did great with Mike Lazzo because he was very hands-on with production, actually talked to showerunners personally, and loved his job. Didn't matter if it was Tim Heidecker, or Doc Hammer, or Same Hyde. Lazzo cared. You are not going to produce a lasting hit show if your executives don't care and do shit like death slot a show, reward failures, or focus on line go up. Other companies also have intermediaries between the suits and the talent, which turns everything into a game of telephone.
 
Hey Johnny Bravo said:
Nah, what happens is corporations get so big that they start hiring executives from outside who don't have any connection to the product. Adult Swim did great with Mike Lazzo because he was very hands-on with production, actually talked to showerunners personally, and loved his job. Didn't matter if it was Tim Heidecker, or Doc Hammer, or Same Hyde. Lazzo cared. You are not going to produce a lasting hit show if your executives don't care and do shit like death slot a show, reward failures, or focus on line go up. Other companies also have intermediaries between the suits and the talent, which turns everything into a game of telephone.
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When was the last time you went to McDonald's and had a burger? I did a week ago, after like six years. Not only is everything about four times as expensive as before the boomer remover hit, it's also a generally shitty experience ordering your food. It's like dealing with the government. You pick a ticket, you pay a ludicrous amount of money, the service is shit, the product is shit and you leave the place angrier than you entered it.

This problem extends far beyond entertainment. These corporations are run nowadays by people that hate their customers for not being loyal enough and giving them all their cash. They even hate the people that we deride as "consoomers". The thing here is that it's a self-reinforcing feedback loop. The managerial class responsible for this slop is unironically exposed to the same slop everyone else is. Enshittifaction is everywhere, and thanks to regulatory capture it's almost impossible to build alternatives.

I shall take my Maori statues and halfmoons, thank you very much. But deep down you know I'm right.
 
Curzon Dax-sama said:
When was the last time you went to McDonald's and had a burger? I did a week ago, after like six years. Not only is everything about four times as expensive as before the boomer remover hit, it's also a generally shitty experience ordering your food. It's like dealing with the government. You pick a ticket, you pay a ludicrous amount of money, the service is shit, the product is shit and you leave the place angrier than you entered it.

This problem extends far beyond entertainment. These corporations are run nowadays by people that hate their customers for not being loyal enough and giving them all their cash. They even hate the people that we deride as "consoomers". The thing here is that it's a self-reinforcing feedback loop. The managerial class responsible for this slop is unironically exposed to the same slop everyone else is. Enshittifaction is everywhere, and thanks to regulatory capture it's almost impossible to build alternatives.

I shall take my Maori statues and halfmoons, thank you very much. But deep down you know I'm right.
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Fast food is not a good example because people can't rob and trash a McDonald's like they can a TV show. I get your point, but I don't think it's entirely correct.
 
Hey Johnny Bravo said:
Fast food is not a good example because people can't rob and trash a McDonald's like they can a TV show. I get your point, but I don't think it's entirely correct.
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Enshittification of basically everything is the logical endpoint of globalization. McDonald's is just a tiny example of what's wrong with the current year+11: Everything is turned into brown slop. Our cities and countries, our food, entertainment, our economies - everything is turned into a variation of Colcatta, Lagos or Cairo.

Trek is just the latest example of that, because the people in charge consciously or subconsciously think they have to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Their "modern audience" isn't the white male with an IQ of >110. It's the brownoid with an IQ of around 90, and I'm being generous here. But it's the majority of the global population. Individually, these people aren't as wealthy, but that isn't the point. Their sheer numbers make up for that.

That said, it isn't about left or right in the political sense. The suits in charge of the economy don't care about that nonsense. They want to cash out since they also know globalization isn't sustainable in the long run. This level of fraud is impossible to keep up. So, when the music stops, they rob everyone blind and let it all burn to the ground. That's the phase we're in right now.
 
Hey Johnny Bravo said:
Fast food is not a good example because people can't rob and trash a McDonald's like they can a TV show. I get your point, but I don't think it's entirely correct.
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I think the difference is the guy who sticks a gun in the cashier's face knows he's just ripping the place off but the exec who fumbles around with the brand and ends up ruining it in the process thinks he's actually doing God's work and improving the brand and it's not his fault the brand augers in. It's the fans, outside interference, the Internet, the studios, but not his. He did the right thing by getting rid of this fan for those fans, cutting costs, changing up stuff, etc. He just doesn't see it as no different than the guy sticking a gun in the cashier's face and the store closing. It was just outside of his actions, but at least he made a lot of money and got another bullet point on his resume and that's the important thing.
 
Curzon Dax-sama said:
That said, it isn't about left or right in the political sense. The suits in charge of the economy don't care about that nonsense. They want to cash out since they also know globalization isn't sustainable in the long run. This level of fraud is impossible to keep up. So, when the music stops, they rob everyone blind and let it all burn to the ground. That's the phase we're in right now.
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I think it's more complex. NBC wanted to do Star Trek again, but the current stock of show business talent is very politically motivated. Even if NBC tried to do a 90's Trek show, they would be eviscerated by critics for not including themes of race, class, or gender. It's not even the shitty writers and producers doing obvious self-masturbatory self-insert schwarbage, although that is a big factor. The problem is that Hollywood went from trying to avoid political or social controversy to embracing it so as to curry favor with increasingly pseudointellectual critics. Consumers, who want to feel smart, copy the pseudointellectual gobbledegook of critics and are afraid of looking unintelligent to their peers, so they can't even watch TNG and enjoy it without rambling about its lack of current year sociopolitical bloviating.
 
Hey Johnny Bravo said:
I think it's more complex. NBC wanted to do Star Trek again, but the current stock of show business talent is very politically motivated. Even if NBC tried to do a 90's Trek show, they would be eviscerated by critics for not including themes of race, class, or gender. It's not even the shitty writers and producers doing obvious self-masturbatory self-insert schwarbage, although that is a big factor. The problem is that Hollywood went from trying to avoid political or social controversy to embracing it so as to curry favor with increasingly pseudointellectual critics. Consumers, who want to feel smart, copy the pseudointellectual gobbledegook of critics and are afraid of looking unintelligent to their peers, so they can't even watch TNG and enjoy it without rambling about its lack of current year sociopolitical bloviating.
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It isn't just the execs, although the number of stories of suits telling the showrunners what must be in the show are legion. The Temporal Cold War stuff in Enterprise was from on high according to B&B (although that might be just to deflect criticism of them, so who knows). But look at Picard where Patrick Stewart demanded all that Current Year stuff be shoehorned in. Or how the writers of DS9 used the dream of Benny Russell and how it just made Avery Brooks emote even harder about racism in the 20th century than normal, instead of having the characters say "man, humans sucked in the past, but at least we're past racism now" like the writers in TOS and TNG did. That one was Ira Steven Behr alone.
 
Hey Johnny Bravo said:
I think it's more complex. NBC wanted to do Star Trek again, but the current stock of show business talent is very politically motivated. Even if NBC tried to do a 90's Trek show, they would be eviscerated by critics for not including themes of race, class, or gender. It's not even the shitty writers and producers doing obvious self-masturbatory self-insert schwarbage, although that is a big factor. The problem is that Hollywood went from trying to avoid political or social controversy to embracing it so as to curry favor with increasingly pseudointellectual critics. Consumers, who want to feel smart, copy the pseudointellectual gobbledegook of critics and are afraid of looking unintelligent to their peers, so they can't even watch TNG and enjoy it without rambling about its lack of current year sociopolitical bloviating.
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Well, there is a simple choice the suits have to make while they're hollowing out the economy: we can be subjected to a violent revolution that'll kill us all - or we incorporate those who by all chance would be the intellectual leaders of said revolution. The shit millenial writers doing bullshit self-inserts aren't doing anything else. They're not writing down what's actually wrong with society. The purpose of Hollywood these days isn't primarily delivering good entertainment. It's all about stalling what the suits assume to be inevitable.
 
Curzon Dax-sama said:
Well, there is a point in the development of a company at which the higher ups/management actually do start hating their customer base. That's usually around the time enshittification sets in. The existence of the internet and the access of billions of normies to it has accelerated that process. We're now at a point where corporations make everything shitty on purpose.
Click to expand...

Hey Johnny Bravo said:
Nah, what happens is corporations get so big that they start hiring executives from outside who don't have any connection to the product. Adult Swim did great with Mike Lazzo because he was very hands-on with production, actually talked to showerunners personally, and loved his job. Didn't matter if it was Tim Heidecker, or Doc Hammer, or Same Hyde. Lazzo cared. You are not going to produce a lasting hit show if your executives don't care and do shit like death slot a show, reward failures, or focus on line go up. Other companies also have intermediaries between the suits and the talent, which turns everything into a game of telephone.
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There was a mildly interesting video about how a British bookstore called Waterstones unshit itself.


The book chain had a ton of highly centralized planning, were bought out by some rich investor or hedge found or something, he hired a CEO who'd run a much smaller chain, that CEO gave local stores a bit more leeway and made the local chains comfy to hang out in. And replaced a ton of people. Went from descending towards bankruptcy to their hedge fund owners buying out Barnes and nobles in a couple of years.

Oh yeah one thing they did was they stopped taking millions and millions of pounds from publishers to put their preferred books in the top spots in their stores in favor of... trying to push books that'd actually sell.
 
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William Murderface said:
It isn't just the execs, although the number of stories of suits telling the showrunners what must be in the show are legion. The Temporal Cold War stuff in Enterprise was from on high according to B&B (although that might be just to deflect criticism of them, so who knows). But look at Picard where Patrick Stewart demanded all that Current Year stuff be shoehorned in. Or how the writers of DS9 used the dream of Benny Russell and how it just made Avery Brooks emote even harder about racism in the 20th century than normal, instead of having the characters say "man, humans sucked in the past, but at least we're past racism now" like the writers in TOS and TNG did. That one was Ira Steven Behr alone.
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Stewart had a lot more pull with Picard, so that's a bit different. He wasn't just the star of TNG at that point, but a major part of Trek as a franchise. You also have to make the big huge star happy for a new show, especially one that's basically made for that star in particular.

As for "Far Beyond the Stars," I thought that was a great episode, so I don't see a problem with it.
Curzon Dax-sama said:
Well, there is a simple choice the suits have to make while they're hollowing out the economy: we can be subjected to a violent revolution that'll kill us all - or we incorporate those who by all chance would be the intellectual leaders of said revolution. The shit millenial writers doing bullshit self-inserts aren't doing anything else. They're not writing down what's actually wrong with society. The purpose of Hollywood these days isn't primarily delivering good entertainment. It's all about stalling what the suits assume to be inevitable.
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I think it's dumber than some supposed imminent collapse of the global order: the current stock of showbiz writers just suck ass and it's all propped up by political nonsense. The cast and crew for Academy can and will piss and moan until they breathe their last breath that the chuds killed their show, not their incompetence, and stupid fans will parrot that in the ridiculous hope that they can seem intelligent to some poor AI scraping 2020's Internet sites for data. Nevermind the fact that these fans would happily scalp the people they supposedly support if it meant 5 minutes of Internet fame.
 
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