Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Zemporer]

From an in-universe point of view, was the Genesis device a true failure or was it just a failure at scale? Carol Marcus showed Kirk the "Genesis Cave" and that seemed stable. The Genesis device explosion in the Nebula created a planet, not just terraformed an existing one.

The Klingons were bitchy about the Genesis Device because they didn't think of it first. I assume if they had it, they'd be popping them off like tic tacs.

Any goofiness of the Genesis Device is worth it to hear Dr. McCoy yell "universal Armageddon" during his discussion with Spock. I can still remember the radio ad for Wrath of Khan and that line from McCoy from when I was a kid.

 

[Dr. Sexbot]

Plus, the part where Remmick was all like "we seek peaceful coexistence" and Picard and Riker are like "nope", and phaser the fuck out of him until his head explodes was genuinely badass.

I've always regarded that episode as being pretty awesome, but I noticed something funny on my last viewing:

Dude also takes one phaser beam per cheek before going down.


Edit: the HD remake was not kind at times. Looks like you can see under the blue curtain on the right.

 

[Doctor Placebo]

Don't forget that for Star Trek, Kahn was a major figure of Earth History. I know it's over used, but it would be the equivalent of a navy captain finding Hitler and a bunch of nazis.

Ackchyually considering the amount of time between them and how Kirk and crew react far less emotionally to Khan than we'd expect a modern navy captain to react to Hitler, Ghengis Khan is probably a more accurate comparison. Or Muhammad if you really want to rustle jimmies.

 

[Sexual Chocolate]

Ackchyually considering the amount of time between them and how Kirk and crew react far less emotionally to Khan than we'd expect a modern navy captain to react to Hitler, Ghengis Khan is probably a more accurate comparison. Or Muhammad if you really want to rustle jimmies.

Khan's backstory:

Khan is one of a group of genetically engineered superhumans, bred to be free of the usual human mental and physical limitations, who were removed from power after the Eugenics Wars of the 1990s.[2] Khan had been both the most successful conqueror and the most benign ruler of the group, ruling more than a quarter of the Earth's area across Asia to the Middle East from 1992 to 1996 with a firm but generally peaceful hand until he was deposed.

So he's basically a smarter Saddam Hussein

 

[ProfDongs]

Making my way through DS9 still, was skeptical of The Visitor at first but ended up really liking it, for a bit I thought it was just gonna be self insert fan fiction Jake was writing. Season 4 has been great so far, and its good to see Worf again.

I really like the O'Brien and Bashir combo thats developed so far, the two characters mesh really well. It seems like they had absolutely no idea what to do with Bashir for first season.

 

[Hot Dog]

I will maintain that TMP had the best atmosphere and transition to a movie format, moreso than Wrath of Khan. It is excellent at creating dread towards an all powerful entity. Not evil, but unknowing.


The Cloud

 

[XYZpdq]

Khan's backstory:



So he's basically a smarter Saddam Hussein

View attachment 1442360

there's an important aspect of the distance in time, when even at the end Kirk and the gang have this sort of "gosh he was a warlord who killed a bunch of people but that's kinda neat we get to hang out" vibe going on instead of "oh shit it's that asshole from about a time people still alive have clear recollection of"

 

[Doctor Placebo]

I will maintain that TMP had the best atmosphere and transition to a movie format, moreso than Wrath of Khan. It is excellent at creating dread towards an all powerful entity. Not evil, but unknowing.


The Cloud

Watching this now, I just had a realization about Independence Day (the movie) of all things. Independence Day is a very stupid movie writing wise, but one thing that it did really well that the sequel didn't even try at was giving the aliens and their ships a creepy atmosphere, much like how V'ger is presented in TMP. The movie doesn't spend quite as long on buildup as TMP does, but it does spend a fair bit of time building up the first time you see one of the giant saucers (which even starts out covered in a cloud, although not a weird rave light show one), or later the mothership and the trip through it, or the encounter with the alien in the lab. It's very effective, and a big reason behind the film's success. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Roland Emmerich had been taking a few cues from TMP, 2001, and other similar movies for his cinematography and pacing. Unfortunately as time has gone on he seems to have gotten impatient with that and is doing movies that are just as dumb but not nearly as visually impactful because of the rush to get to the big dumb action scenes.

 

[Hot Dog]

Watching this now, I just had a realization about Independence Day (the movie) of all things. Independence Day is a very stupid movie writing wise, but one thing that it did really well that the sequel didn't even try at was giving the aliens and their ships a creepy atmosphere, much like how V'ger is presented in TMP. The movie doesn't spend quite as long on buildup as TMP does, but it does spend a fair bit of time building up the first time you see one of the giant saucers (which even starts out covered in a cloud, although not a weird rave light show one), or later the mothership and the trip through it, or the encounter with the alien in the lab. It's very effective, and a big reason behind the film's success. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Roland Emmerich had been taking a few cues from TMP, 2001, and other similar movies for his cinematography and pacing. Unfortunately as time has gone on he seems to have gotten impatient with that and is doing movies that are just as dumb but not nearly as visually impactful because of the rush to get to the big dumb action scenes.

TMP has atmosphere (maybe too much) and the score/visuals really carry an otherwise standard Trek story. I rewatched Khan a few weeks ago and still enjoyed it, but was a little underwhelmed.

Movies have stopped being movies in the traditional sense and are just garbage on the screen. The quote from George Lucas is really true in that a special effect without a story is a boring thing. Too bad he couldn't take his own advice.

 

[Doctor Placebo]

TMP has atmosphere (maybe too much) and the score/visuals really carry an otherwise standard Trek story. I rewatched Khan a few weeks ago and still enjoyed it, but was a little underwhelmed.

Movies have stopped being movies in the traditional sense and are just garbage on the screen. The quote from George Lucas is really true in that a special effect without a story is a boring thing. Too bad he couldn't take his own advice.

I wouldn't say Lucas makes special effects without a story. The biggest thing the Star Wars prequels have over the sequels is that they're a lot more interesting in concept. The sequels are creatively bankrupt. The prequels aren't. They just fail because of terrible dialogue, characters' relationships skipping from point A to point D instead of progressing naturally, stupid comic relief, etc. But the basic plot summary had potential to be taken and turned into something really good, Lucas just failed at the execution. He almost did the same thing with the originals, but back then other people were able to assert creative influence to polish them up and make them something that worked.

Lucas is basically an over glorified idea guy, which normally doesn't get a lot of respect on this forum, but with how creatively bankrupt and lacking in ideas Hollywood is right now, one of the things they're sorely lacking is people with original ideas. Most "idea guys" these days are just poseurs who rip off popular concepts. Say whatever else you will about Lucas, but he's not that. The Whills may be a batshit insane direction to take Star Wars in, but it's undeniably creative and original.

 

[Hot Dog]

I wouldn't say Lucas makes special effects without a story. The biggest thing the Star Wars prequels have over the sequels is that they're a lot more interesting in concept. The sequels are creatively bankrupt. The prequels aren't. They just fail because of terrible dialogue, characters' relationships skipping from point A to point D instead of progressing naturally, stupid comic relief, etc. But the basic plot summary had potential to be taken and turned into something really good, Lucas just failed at the execution. He almost did the same thing with the originals, but back then other people were able to assert creative influence to polish them up and make them something that worked.

Lucas is basically an over glorified idea guy, which normally doesn't get a lot of respect on this forum, but with how creatively bankrupt and lacking in ideas Hollywood is right now, one of the things they're sorely lacking is people with original ideas. Most "idea guys" these days are just poseurs who rip off popular concepts. Say whatever else you will about Lucas, but he's not that. The Whills may be a batshit insane direction to take Star Wars in, but it's undeniably creative and original.

I don't think the sequel trilogy will be Canon in the long run. Only watched The Force Awakens and my reaction was 'bleh'.

I would like to have seen George's take on a sequel trilogy. I don't dislike the guy but think that the prequels don't really hold up with excessive use of cgi. He really needed someone to reign him in and focus his ideas. His creativity was never in question.

Getting back to Star Trek, it would have been interesting if TMP had more commercial success and Gene wasn't kicked upstairs. I doubt the movies would have lasted as long but we could have had a very different set of film(s). Season 1 of TNG might have been an indicator of said direction.

My favorite films are TMP, ST4, and ST6.

 

[trekkor]

Trailer for Rick and Trek dropped. I dunno, some of the jokes were decent (I had a chuckle at the holodeck waste disposal gag), but I don't think it's good when I can already tell which characters I am absolutely going to despise.

 

[BScCollateral]

Trailer for Rick and Trek dropped.

I smiled once, at the last gag. And since it's the last gag, you know it's the funniest moment in the series. I'll give it this much: when a character nearly kills someone else, she's clearly terrified when she realizes what she almost did.

One of the oldest science fiction movies is Just Imagine, a musical comedy on archive.org. It almost sank Universal Studios.[/QUOTE]

 

[Lithos]

Trailer for Rick and Trek dropped. I dunno, some of the jokes were decent (I had a chuckle at the holodeck waste disposal gag), but I don't think it's good when I can already tell which characters I am absolutely going to despise.

Well, it keeps the imagery of the original TNG/DS9/Voyager Okudagram consoles. That alone makes it superior to STD and STP.

Low bar, I know.

 

[Flexo]

Trailer for Rick and Trek dropped. I dunno, some of the jokes were decent (I had a chuckle at the holodeck waste disposal gag), but I don't think it's good when I can already tell which characters I am absolutely going to despise.

Is... the black girl supposed to have a man's voice or something?

Seems so familiar...

 

[Cyril Sneer]

Seems so familiar...

You don't say...

 

[Tookie]

Well, it keeps the imagery of the original TNG/DS9/Voyager Okudagram consoles. That alone makes it superior to STD and STP.

Low bar, I know.

Yeah, I like the ship design too. That's about it.

 

[Flexo]

Patreon preview of Picard episode 2 is up.

So Chuck swears, with all research, that Janeway was originally supposed to have been the admiral who f-bombed Picard.

Yes, he does his part to fix that oversight.

 

[trekkor]

As a side note, it's Patrick Stewart's birthday today; he's 80 years old. After the shitshow that was STPicard, I'm curious how Trekkie Kiwis feel about the man now. Disappointed? Still positive? Don't care?

 

[Dr. Sexbot]

As a side note, it's Patrick Stewart's birthday today; he's 80 years old. After the shitshow that was STPicard, I'm curious how Trekkie Kiwis feel about the man now. Disappointed? Still positive? Don't care?

You know how, when a loved one slowly slips into dementia, you kind of lose them gradually...then when they die, you almost feel a sense of relief, since the person you knew and loved died a long-ass time ago?

I'm chalking the current shit up to that gradual cognitive decline.