Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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XYZpdq said:
I have trouble getting sympathy up for Axanar.
When your "fan work" includes Emmy winners it's increasingly "unlicensed professional work"
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Still looked more interesting than anything CBS/Paramount have put out in the last decade or so.
 
So I watched What We Leave Behind today. I thought it was pretty good right up until the virtue signaling started. Ira wanted Garak and Bashir to be a gay couple.

Their idea for S8 sounded interesting except for killing Nog? FUCK THAT!

Really sad seeing Rene and Aaron, especially when Rene says he's glad his obituary won't just say "That guy from Benson" he was right, every single article reporting his death referred him as indeed the man who played Odo on Deep Space Nine.

God I hate Ira's fucking purple beard.
 
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I'm willing to bet he only came up with the Garak / Bashir gay couple thing for the documentary. While Garak came off as a bit eccentric, I absolutely did not get gay vibes off him. He even had a hetero relationship with Dukat's daughter.
 
White Devil said:
I'm willing to bet he only came up with the Garak / Bashir gay couple thing for the documentary. While Garak came off as a bit eccentric, I absolutely did not get gay vibes off him. He even had a hetero relationship with Dukat's daughter.
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Eh it's something going around trekkie circles for awile. Andrew J Robinson has outright said that numerous gay guys have come up to him at conventions and thanked him for his role.

Which is silly. Everyone knows Garak is job-sexual. He'll bone whatever he needs to for the good of Cardassia. (That's why his relationship with Zial was tragic - he couldn't see any point to it and so couldn't understand what to do.)
 
White Devil said:
I'm willing to bet he only came up with the Garak / Bashir gay couple thing for the documentary. While Garak came off as a bit eccentric, I absolutely did not get gay vibes off him. He even had a hetero relationship with Dukat's daughter.
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Making Bashir gay? After spending the first 4 seasons chasing everything in a skirt, pursing Dabbo girls and harassing Jadzia?
I'd have an easier time believing O'Brien was gay. Being married to Keiko would be motivation enough.
Flexo said:
Which is silly. Everyone knows Garak is job-sexual. He'll bone whatever he needs to for the good of Cardassia. (That's why his relationship with Zial was tragic - he couldn't see any point to it and so couldn't understand what to do.)
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In my head-canon he spent the entire relationship convinced she was about to kill him because she's out of his league and the daughter of a mortal enemy. Only when she died did he realize her sincerity.
 
I still totally agree that Garak was 100% canonically as gay as he ever needed to be to fulfil his role as a member of the obsidian order. (As @Flexo has said more than once, "jobsexual"), but there's no way in hell that the dude whose name started out being incredibly towel-heady (but somehow got less so over the next few years,) would have ever willingly agreed to play a homo, and I don't think his character was ever even remotely portrayed as one, quite the opposite in fact. He thirsted after Dax from pretty much the beginning, and eventually even got her, kind of.
 
This whole Garak thing is just the thing where thirsty shipper fans with weird fetishes go "Look, these two characters of the same sex get along! Surely that must mean they are secretly gay and banging each other like crazy every night! *types another 20 pages of pornographic slashfic*"

It's wishful thinking and it is ruining a lot of good media. Look no further than LOTR, where Sam and Frodo's friendship is seen as a gay relationship, even though Sam later on marries that chick he was into at the start of the books. There were people in the 19th century, that thought women could not understand male friendship and that indeed "friendship" is something only males understand... this "They get along, so they are totally GAY" shit makes me more accepting of that 19th century nonsense more and more tbh.
 
I imagine Michael Piller was the one reigning in Ira all the time and keeping his crazy ideas from going out of control. I mean the man has a purple beard now, you know that's one deranged fuck...

I mean killing Nog! I bet that never woulda happened if Micheal had been in that room.
 
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AnOminous said:
I like how the ship is constantly getting tossed around and people flung against the walls, but apparently, in the future, they forgot seat belts exist. But nobody seems to get hurt so maybe they have magic walls that can't hurt you when you fly into them headfirst.
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Seatbelts are like the internet, they literally didnt exist when star trek was invented.
 
rabo said:
I imagine Michael Piller was the one reigning in Ira all the time and keeping his crazy ideas from going out of control.
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That's my theory too. I always assumed that Ira took over near the end of DS9 as Piller was too busy fighting cancer. I believe that there are signs of this in the writing, like Sisko's remark about the holo program that was really out of character, or how they turned Dukat into a comic book villain.

the man has a purple beard now
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It used to be blue during DS9.
 
TaimuRadiu said:
So why does Vulcan have a moon now?
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The Motion Picture showed Vulcan with one hell of a moon so at this point that detail is just, whatever.

RomanesEuntDomus said:
This whole Garak thing is just the thing where thirsty shipper fans with weird fetishes go "Look, these two characters of the same sex get along! Surely that must mean they are secretly gay and banging each other like crazy every night! *types another 20 pages of pornographic slashfic*"

It's wishful thinking and it is ruining a lot of good media. Look no further than LOTR, where Sam and Frodo's friendship is seen as a gay relationship, even though Sam later on marries that chick he was into at the start of the books. There were people in the 19th century, that thought women could not understand male friendship and that indeed "friendship" is something only males understand... this "They get along, so they are totally GAY" shit makes me more accepting of that 19th century nonsense more and more tbh.
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To be honest if there was any missed opportunity it would have been for Garak to be sexually attracted to Bashir but have Bashir not be reciprocating. I can imagine that's probably a situation that plays out a fairly regular basis and could be a decent source of drama. Not really my cup of tea but an even handed writer could turn that into a compelling source of character tension.

Of course with current year showing a gay guy striking out with a guy who it turns out isn't interested in a gay relationship would probably be shit all over and ripped apart as homophobic, even though that situation is more likely to play out in reality these days.
 
L50LasPak said:
To be honest if there was any missed opportunity it would have been for Garak to be sexually attracted to Bashir but have Bashir not be reciprocating. I can imagine that's probably a situation that plays out a fairly regular basis and could be a decent source of drama. Not really my cup of tea but an even handed writer could turn that into a compelling source of character tension.

Of course with current year showing a gay guy striking out with a guy who it turns out isn't interested in a gay relationship would probably be shit all over and ripped apart as homophobic, even though that situation is more likely to play out in reality these days.
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I would welcome that, for the same reasons you give.
About 2 years ago, a movie called "Simon Says" came out, it was about some in-the-closet homosexual on a high-school and it infuriated me to the fucking bone for being such a shitty story. It made me realize how amazing it would be to have a movie with the following plot structure: Secretly gay guy looks falls finds out about other secretyl gay dude. They start dating, have to hide it from society, they eventually are found out and have to deal with everyone now going bonkers over it. Here's the twist: While they struggle against opposition and deal with bullies or assholes, the come to the ground-breaking realization, that up till that point, they weren't so much interested in being together as much as they just struggle against homophobia. They end up realizing that they don't really love each other and go their seperate ways, trying to find more fitting partners (which they might do by the end of the movie, possibly in a little teaser epilogue).

A drama about 2 gay characters that struggle against their social surroundings and do not end up together has the potential to be rather interesting, I think. It would be nice to see a movie that acknowledges that being gay doesn't mean you instantly start sucking face with any random other gay person - in that way, modern Hollywood productions are almost the same as your average 50s stranger danger PSAs.
 
RomanesEuntDomus said:
A drama about 2 gay characters that struggle against their social surroundings and do not end up together has the potential to be rather interesting, I think.
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It is passing strange how we've been preached at for a couple of generations now that sticking one's dick in some other guy's asshole, or vice-versa, confers a kind of secular sainthood upon the participants, as if genital contact with fecal matter was some sort of elevating and holy ritual. 🤔

RomanesEuntDomus said:
It would be nice to see a movie that acknowledges that being gay doesn't mean you instantly start sucking face with any random other gay person...
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Yes, that sort of thing is reserved for the bathhouse on weekends. 😉
 
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