Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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UnKillShredDur said:
Hell, and I even went back to check this just now, Sisko is wearing a contemporary (for the time) TNG uniform in opening scenes of DS9, and O'Brien is already wearing the original DS9 uniform in the same scene. That even makes some sense in context, O'Brien says he has already been on DS9 for several days at this point, Sisko is just now showing up.
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Trek Uniforms *obviously* change in universe, fairly often even. I admittedly don't know why Starfleet wanted a different uniform for their personnel on DS9, but they obviously did. And they at least kept that relatively consistent, until they changed it again...
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Well there you go, you summed up for me why it's stupid.

UnKillShredDur said:
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Even if you disagree with me, one film which has multiple actors in the very same scene wearing multiple random costumes that don't at all look right together is clearly worse than 2 entirely different shows having different costume designs, right?
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Yes.
 
He first wore the "Excursion jacket" as I call it, in Darmok, Season 5 if I'm not mistaken.
I actually like it, but it was never explained why he suddenly wore it (other than the production taking another trip to the vasquez rocks).
 
That was a comfy looking jacket

Picard_jacket_leather_shoulders.jpg
 
One of the problems I always had with Star Trek is these guys are beaming down to alien planets with less gear than I carry for an overnight in Manhattan.

Except, weirdly enough, for The Cage. Sure, the actors are just hauling empty boxes and stuffing their jackets with newspaper, but it looked like they were prepared.
 
BScCollateral said:
One of the problems I always had with Star Trek is these guys are beaming down to alien planets with less gear than I carry for an overnight in Manhattan.

Except, weirdly enough, for The Cage. Sure, the actors are just hauling empty boxes and stuffing their jackets with newspaper, but it looked like they were prepared.
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Probably either a writing oversight or a budgetary issue. But honestly it would have been kinda cool to see away teams strapping on backpacks, tactical gear, and other shit before a mission. It's only logical that you may need more than a damn tricorder on a potentially hostile alien world. There's all sorts of shit that could happen.
What if the transporter shits itself right after beaming you down? What if a Borg cube shows up and your ship has to fuck off at maximum warp? Now you're stuck there with no supplies. Good job.
You could either hope that you find suitable food, water, and shelter on a world you know nothing about that could potentially contain hazards your tricorder cannot detect, or you could bring your own shit and be absolutely sure you'll survive.

Again, probably just nobody thinking about it in the writing room, budget limitations, massive Federation overconfidence, or maybe people are just kinda weird about certain things in sci-fi.
Think about it, there's some things that sci-fi likes to ignore when it really shouldn't.
Think about Star Wars. Why didn't Luke wear sunglasses? He lives in a desert on a planet in a binary star system, said planet is locked in such an orbit with the suns that both will be in the sky during the day for most of the year. Brutal amounts of sunlight. Why no sunglasses?

People tend to either omit this shit from personal taste, or because they just don't think about it.
 
ExceptionallyExceptional said:
What if the transporter shits itself right after beaming you down? What if a Borg cube shows up and your ship has to fuck off at maximum warp? Now you're stuck there with no supplies. Good job.
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"The ship had to bail out while an awayteam was planetside and the awayteam now has to survive under harsh conditions with some survival gear" sounds like a great opportunity for an ENT episode tbh.
Putting together gear for survival in general is very tricky: You need tools and materials to make a shelter, you need something to keep yourself warm and dry, you need drinkable water, food and possibly weapons. And all of this needs to be suitable for the environment that you are in and still be light and small enough that you can carry it.
This can be rather hard to achieve when all you need to do is dealing with different climate zones on earth, now imagine how hard it would be to put together some sort of survival kit that needs to be useful on an entirely unknown planet.

It would be interesting to see a bunch of ENT characters get stranded on some planet that does have a fauna and flora, but everything is so strange and alien, that the characters don't know how to deal with it. Maybe their waterfiltration system is not capable of dealing with whatever is going on on that planet, maybe some of their gear is perfectly fine to use for a certain task anywhere on Earth, but it fails horrendeously on that planet, for some reason.
It could be an interesting learning experience for the crew, where they realize that whoever picked their survival gear put together something based on what militaries on Earth use, but it doesn't take into account other planets.

That's the kind of stuff that I would like from a TOS prequel: People slowly figuring out how to travel the stars, learning about new threats, dealing with new situations and slowly knocking together all the bits and pieces they learn into what will later become standard in TOS.

And on a sidenote, something I always liked about SG1 was how in many episodes, when main characters went to some unknown planet, you'd see some remote operated drone standing somewhere near the Stargate, indicating that they did indeed send over an unmanned drone first to check whether... you know... there's air and stuff where they send their guys.
 
RomanesEuntDomus said:
"The ship had to bail out while an awayteam was planetside and the awayteam now has to survive under harsh conditions with some survival gear" sounds like a great opportunity for an ENT episode tbh.
Putting together gear for survival in general is very tricky: You need tools and materials to make a shelter, you need something to keep yourself warm and dry, you need drinkable water, food and possibly weapons. And all of this needs to be suitable for the environment that you are in and still be light and small enough that you can carry it.
This can be rather hard to achieve when all you need to do is dealing with different climate zones on earth, now imagine how hard it would be to put together some sort of survival kit that needs to be useful on an entirely unknown planet.

It would be interesting to see a bunch of ENT characters get stranded on some planet that does have a fauna and flora, but everything is so strange and alien, that the characters don't know how to deal with it. Maybe their waterfiltration system is not capable of dealing with whatever is going on on that planet, maybe some of their gear is perfectly fine to use for a certain task anywhere on Earth, but it fails horrendeously on that planet, for some reason.
It could be an interesting learning experience for the crew, where they realize that whoever picked their survival gear put together something based on what militaries on Earth use, but it doesn't take into account other planets.

That's the kind of stuff that I would like from a TOS prequel: People slowly figuring out how to travel the stars, learning about new threats, dealing with new situations and slowly knocking together all the bits and pieces they learn into what will later become standard in TOS.

And on a sidenote, something I always liked about SG1 was how in many episodes, when main characters went to some unknown planet, you'd see some remote operated drone standing somewhere near the Stargate, indicating that they did indeed send over an unmanned drone first to check whether... you know... there's air and stuff where they send their guys.
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That happened in TOS, specifically Galileo Seven.
 
RomanesEuntDomus said:
"The ship had to bail out while an awayteam was planetside and the awayteam now has to survive under harsh conditions with some survival gear" sounds like a great opportunity for an ENT episode tbh.
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Voyager kinda did that with Basics I & II when the Kazon stranded them on that planet and stole the ship. I don't think anyone even got dirty and the biggest complaint was Neelixes worse-than-average cooking.

ENT also did it in episode 2 but it quickly turned into monster of the week iirc
 
UnKillShredDur said:
Hot Take: I don't believe I've ever seen Louise Fletcher act outside of DS9, but I hated Kai Wynn from the beginning... The actress did her job perfectly imho, she was a like a wrestling heel, you're supposed to hate her, and I did.

I
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She was perfect as the cunty Nurse Ratched in One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest
 
ditto said:
Voyager kinda did that with Basics I & II when the Kazon stranded them on that planet and stole the ship. I don't think anyone even got dirty and the biggest complaint was Neelixes worse-than-average cooking.
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DS9 also had an episode with Odo and Quark getting stranded and having to climb a mountain to get reception for a distress signal.
 
All the uniform changes can be easily explained in universe.

Industries still exist in their time. And I'm sure Starfleet has their own branch developing new and better ways to protect their people with more comfortable and practical uniform by researching new fabrics.

Why people wear different uniforms? Simple. Tailors exist in their time too. Meaning, no matter how much you replicate a piece of cloth, some adjustments are always required for some people. Many of the crew who feel they need some probably haven't got the time to go to the tailor or feel there is no hurry for it.
 
JamesFargo said:
The only time we saw characters wear protection from the sun was "Face in the Sand", with allusions to Moses/Muhammad.
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That whole mother arc completely undermined any character growth for the character. Sisko loses his wife and learns to rebuild over six seasons, then it suddenly becomes it was your destiny all along, son of the Prophets!. Not humanist or very Star Trek imho.
 
JamesFargo said:
If I were still in my fedora-tipping atheist phase, I might agree, but the secularism of Roddenberry is highly suspect. Even Harris and Dawkins seem to be mellowing with age. Either that or they're afraid of losing ground to Islam.
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Lol I have no idea what you think I said, but I'm not talking about religion.

At that core of Trek has been that humans have free will and control our own destiny. TOS god-like aliens frequently tried to take that away. Making Sisko the son of (wormhole) gods that fulfils a destiny takes away from that. Fortunately it's only a pretty small part and can be ignored.
JamesFargo said:
I also defended Ira earlier in the thread, but he took credit for Sisko's godhood,
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Interesting I would have assumed it was Ron Moore since BSG dials space religion stuff up to 11.
 
ditto said:
Interesting I would have assumed it was Ron Moore since BSG dials space religion stuff up to 11.
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Not the BGS thread, but the religious aspects in the BSG remake never worked for me. It always reeked of atheist edgelord writing about faith (I used to do that too when I started writing) and often clashed with the nihilist tone the show set in episode 1. Which is why I found the Cylon need for God so much fedora-tipping pseudo philosophy. Cylons knew who created them! What's with the Christianity push?

General flaws in writing became noticeable with the extremely poor use of the Final Five MacGuffins in season 3, but they as a people reinforced, not countered Adama's speech at the beginning of the show. By season 4, the nihilism actually overpowered characters' faith the moment they found Cylon Earth. Thus, finding real Earth was incredibly contrived and relied on space magic that wasn't consistent with the internal rules of the show itself, namely, if you come back to life, you must be a Cylon. When the key theme of BSG is faith.

The Prophets were annoying sure, but DS9's exploration of religion was consistent in its approach. Sisko had an arc and a rebirth of the spirit which BSG characters didn't have.
 
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