Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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White Devil said:
I've said it before, in retrospect TNG really isn't that great. You have a handful of great episodes spread across seven seasons of filler.
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It sucks 'cause S7 has some great ideas for episodes, but they could've been pushed more. I like it when shows lead you down a path and you don't know what the next turn will look like, like you can't predict it. "Liaisons" sort of did that with the ending (I like how totally nonchalant Picard is about being kissed by a man in disguise). "Phantasms" was a sick episode, though.
 
You know, Maxwell was right about the Cardassians.

But upon further reflection I can see how important it was that Picard had maintained the peace. Because if he had not, the alpha quadrant would have inevitably lost the war against the dominion and the federation, along with all other major powers in the alpha quadrant, would have fallen.

All due to the federation being unable to negotiate alliances with the klingons and romulans due to starting the war against the cardassians in the first place and driving them to ally with the dominion to protect themselves in the first place once they were driven back, instead of the klingons doing it. Which would drive them to be even more hesitant to give aid to either side.


 
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Antarctic Hellbeast said:
You know, Maxwell was right about the Cardassians.

But upon further reflection I can see how important it was that Picard had maintained the peace. Because if he had not, the alpha quadrant would have inevitably lost the war against the dominion and the federation, along with all other major powers in the alpha quadrant, would have fallen.

All due to the federation being unable to negotiate alliances with the klingons and romulans due to starting the war against the cardassians in the first place and driving them to ally with the dominion to protect themselves in the first place once they were driven back, instead of the klingons doing it. Which would drive them to be even more hesitant to give aid to either side.


https://youtube.com/watch?v=i41aEtE0iYs
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I know, I said that earlier in this thread.
 
White Devil said:
I've said it before, in retrospect TNG really isn't that great. You have a handful of great episodes spread across seven seasons of filler.
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It was comfy TV at a time when Trek drew huge numbers. Now the audience is smaller. But they're more dedicated. That's the trade-off.
Antarctic Hellbeast said:
You know, Maxwell was right about the Cardassians.
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It's one of those dilemmas the show loves so much. And a pretty good one. Like Sulu said in "Return of the Red Jackets" "Flashback":
"Ensign, you're absolutely right. But you're also absolutely wrong."
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Picard and Maxwell were justified in doing what they did with the knowledge they had. As far as Picard knew, the Feds had Cardassia on the run. (And no, he had no way of knowing about the wormhole or Dukat. The Cardassian Empire might have folded without the Founders' help.) Maxwell was willing to kill a few hundred Cardies to prevent casualties on the Fed side. It's pretty tragic that this guy had some real PTSD which made it harder to buy his story.
 
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JamesFargo said:
Also, it seems viewers weren't ready for a serialized show. You can't simply bracket away one episode of DS9, B5, Farscape, et. al from another. It's meant to be watched in order. A tall order in the days before DVR and Wikia. It was comfy, episodic TV at a time when Trek drew huge numbers. Now the audience is smaller. But they're more dedicated. That's the trade-off.
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Not viewers, technology. Keep in mind as TNG was airing VCRs were just starting to become ubiquitous. Being able to record a show is the only way you could keep up with the story if you had to miss a night (and you always had to miss one sometimes).

Given also just how challenging it was to program the VCr for recording, and it's no wonder serialized stories didn't really take off until late in the VCR lifespan and even more so when DVRs started spreading.
 
JamesFargo said:
You can't simply bracket away one episode of DS9, B5, Farscape, et. al from another.
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I seriously disagree with the DS9 example. There were standalone episodes in the first four seasons that were spectacular. Particularly in the fourth season which was specially tailored to draw in new viewers and thus was only halfway devoted to the serialized format that the show would later make use of.

Particularly though I'd like to zero in on the season 1 episode Duet, which is actually the first episode of Deep Space Nine that I watched in full. I'd seen clips of the show on Youtube before that point but never caught the show on TV because for whatever reason it just didn't rerun anywhere when I was growing up. I watched that episode with no context, I didn't remember any of the character names, I had no idea who these people were or even that Deep Space Nine was an alien station. Funnily enough Sisko wasn't even "the black Captain" to me because I would have thought of Paul Winfield's character first if you asked me "Who was the black captain in Star Trek?"

Despite all of that I was immediately drawn into the show. Duet does a great job of explaining everything to a first time viewer, which is smart move for a season 1 episode. The performances are outstanding, and honestly it remains one of my favorite episodes of Star Trek to this day. Its still the episode I reccomend to friends and family to get them into DS9 too, since I think it works a lot better than Way of the Warrior (even though I still like Way of the Warrior quite a bit).

Even later on as the serialized format took hold on the show there were still good episodes that were deliberately unconnected to everything going on just to give people a break. The House of Quark which was mentioned earlier is excellent even if Obrien's subplot is weak. Everyone of course loves Trials and Tribble-ations, and even later on there's Field of Fire which is a neat little detective story. DS9 definitely brought the serial format to Trek (to its eventual detriment in my opinion, but that's hardly DS9's fault), but it could still run some killer standalone episodes when it wanted to.
 
Flexo said:
Not viewers, technology. Keep in mind as TNG was airing VCRs were just starting to become ubiquitous. Being able to record a show is the only way you could keep up with the story if you had to miss a night (and you always had to miss one sometimes).

Given also just how challenging it was to program the VCr for recording, and it's no wonder serialized stories didn't really take off until late in the VCR lifespan and even more so when DVRs started spreading.
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Ugh, I hate VCRs. You can never double-check if it's programmed right or figure out what went wrong.
 
I know for a fact I am in a minority over one TOS episode: "Spock's Brain": I honestly, un-ironically love it. It has everything that Gene Roddenberry pitched Star Trek as: cheesy with a strong story. Yes, the premise is absurd..but the story where a society has become 99% dependent on technology they cannot fully operate is what I admire most about this episode.

Please tell me I'm not totally alone here for my love of this one episode?
 
Kornula said:
I know for a fact I am in a minority over one TOS episode: "Spock's Brain": I honestly, un-ironically love it. It has everything that Gene Roddenberry pitched Star Trek as: cheesy with a strong story. Yes, the premise is absurd..but the story where a society has become 99% dependent on technology they cannot fully operate is what I admire most about this episode.

Please tell me I'm not totally alone here for my love of this one episode?
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The shock collars are pretty kinky.
 
Kornula said:
Please tell me I'm not totally alone here for my love of this one episode?
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I don't hate it. There were many episodes in Season 3 that were absolutely terrible that I won't rewatch like The Empath, Plato's Stepchildren, or Turnabout Intruder.
 
Kornula said:
I know for a fact I am in a minority over one TOS episode: "Spock's Brain": I honestly, un-ironically love it. It has everything that Gene Roddenberry pitched Star Trek as: cheesy with a strong story. Yes, the premise is absurd..but the story where a society has become 99% dependent on technology they cannot fully operate is what I admire most about this episode.

Please tell me I'm not totally alone here for my love of this one episode?
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Would like to actually see it now that you mentioned it.
 
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i also love "Turnabout Intruder" Shatner has to act like a power hungry woman ...come to think about it.. he was channeling his inner Hillary. ... hmmm.

One of the few episodes I wont watch ever again is "Bread and Circuses" Roddenberry was a publicly avowed atheist...this episode is damned near praising space Jesus..ugh

Travoltron said:
I don't hate it. There were many episodes in Season 3 that were absolutely terrible that I won't rewatch like The Empath, Plato's Stepchildren, or Turnabout Intruder.
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I can understand (and agree with...) your dislike for Plato's Stepchildren and The Empath..but why Turnabout Intruder?
 
Kornula said:
I can understand (and agree with...) your dislike for Plato's Stepchildren and The Empath..but why Turnabout Intruder?
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i thought the "women can't be starship captains" thing was dumb and that's the main motivation of the villainess.

I suppose I also have unhappiness that that was the series finale. It's not really the fault of the show. They were lied to by NBC and told there would be more episodes. Shatner was lined up to direct an episode that never happened.
 
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