Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Flaming Carrot said:
I thought it was fine. It suffers in comparison to Wrath of Khan but there are far worse Star trek movies out there.
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Yeah. By far Trek 3's worst sin is being surrounded by two of the franchise's greatest.

It is kind of week, for all the serious potential of story, of examining life after death and stuff, it doesn't hit it's targets as strong as the previous film. But it is very solid and not nearly as bad as many other odd films in the series.

I'd probably pit it exactly mid level. The solid mediocre standard the movies hinge on. You're either better or worse than 3.
 
Marissa Moira said:
Very sus thinking IMO.
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Oh, I'm sure! Like you haven't rubbed one out to a kid's film in your time.

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Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
I think the movie gets a bad rap. For years, kid me was thinking that they were to save Spock, but adult me realized their mission was to pick up his dead body because they didn't bury him right. So it actually is touching that the crew would go to these lengths when it would have been much easier to move on with their lives.

Also, it's a movie that calls Uhura old to her face. That takes balls.
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that's the only scene in the whole movie I love.

@JamesFargo
The Original cast films had built in the aging factor (at least from II on) to push the stories.
The TNG films not so much...

@WhiteDevil
I have a fondness for the Slow Motion Picture as it opened on the weekend of my birthday. My mom's boyfriend took me and his son to see it. We both ripped into it.. out loud the whole time. And we still loved it. Meanwhile, mom's grumpy boyfriend vowed never to take either of us to a movie again.
 
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JamesFargo said:
Plinkett raised the point that Picard and the others were put into action roles, which doesn't suit them at all. Something about this does not compute:

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I don't mind Action Beverly, but the plot didn't use the cast properly for this.

I have no problem with the movies being action movies. Unlike the show, people are paying to watch them and for that you need to up the game. The action in FC was ok and justified. But in Insurrection, it felt the writers simply wanted that: put them in action situations.
 
If you let me make a Star Trek series right now I know exactly what I would do. Base the entire show on an unused script from DS9. Namely the OTHER script they had where they wanted to revisit a bit of TOS for the 30th anniversary of Trek.
Y'all remember that mafia planet that came about when a Starfleet exploratory team accidentally left a stash of literature on the planet and the people emulated the 1920's Chicago Mob? Well the DS9 team wanted to do an episode about them, except this time their knack for imitation would have led them to imitate something other than the mafia, namely they would have imitated the TOS era Federation. The Iotians were essentially supposed to have become more or less your stereotypical Trek fan put into a position of getting to live out their Trek fantasies.

How about that for a damn show. The entire first episode could be a massive switcheroo as you think we're going to be getting a show set in the TOS era and then suddenly a post-TNG/DS9/VOY era (while ignoring anything that was created after Enterprise) Federation ship shows up and we get to see the comedic clash of the Federation and the Fauxderation while they try to sort this mess out. After the first episode we can start to move away from the gimmick a bit but keep a good number of our core characters be Iotians who can be used for comedic interplay with the proper Starfleet officers.
 
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Exceptionally Exceptional said:
How about that for a damn show. The entire first episode could be a massive switcheroo as you think we're going to be getting a show set in the TOS era and then suddenly a post-TNG/DS9/VOY era (while ignoring anything that was created after Enterprise) Federation ship shows up and we get to see the comedic clash of the Federation and the Fauxderation while they try to sort this mess out.
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Where's the black Andorians?
Tasty Tatty said:
I don't mind Action Beverly, but the plot didn't use the cast properly for this
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In FC, her 'fight' scene took place in sickbay. She was in her element. In Insurrection, they just needed something for Bev to do.
 
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Flexo said:
Yeah. By far Trek 3's worst sin is being surrounded by two of the franchise's greatest.

It is kind of week, for all the serious potential of story, of examining life after death and stuff, it doesn't hit it's targets as strong as the previous film. But it is very solid and not nearly as bad as many other odd films in the series.

I'd probably pit it exactly mid level. The solid mediocre standard the movies hinge on. You're either better or worse than 3.
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I was pretty much gonna post the same thing. Robots of a feather.

All of the TOS films are fine (yes, even The Final Frontier). It just doesn't help the ones considered weaker (1/3/5) are sandwiched between the ones considered better (2/4/6), which gives them a more unfavorable comparison if viewed sequentially. I'm not going to argue that 5 is a better movie than 4 or 6, for example, but I think that despite its flaws, it gets a worse rap than it ultimately deserves because of that movie sandwich.

And when compared to what we get today, well..."What does...God need with a...starship?" doesn't sound quite so bad.
 
Kornula said:
Question for fans of all levels: does any trek fan honestly like "The Search for Spock" at all? I jokingly gave a copy of it on DVD to a friend.. who almost gave it back to me..and she is a bigger trek fan than I am.
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I liked it. It was sandwiched between two more memorable movies but there is nothing wrong with it.
 
Flexo said:
It is kind of week, for all the serious potential of story, of examining life after death and stuff, it doesn't hit it's targets as strong as the previous film. But it is very solid and not nearly as bad as many other odd films in the series.
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The death of Spock at the end of Khan is one of the best scenes in the movies, but unfortunately it left them with the problem that now you've fucking killed Spock. So III suffers from the fact that you spend an entire movie undoing the last few minutes of the previous movie.
 
AnOminous said:
The death of Spock at the end of Khan is one of the best scenes in the movies, but unfortunately it left them with the problem that now you've fucking killed Spock. So III suffers from the fact that you spend an entire movie undoing the last few minutes of the previous movie.
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The plot involves the Genesis Device, which, let's face it, is not much to hang a movie on. It's an interesting proposition: Kruge looks at terraforming and only sees the military applications. But that's all it is; a ticking clock.
 
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Exceptionally Exceptional said:
If you let me make a Star Trek series right now I know exactly what I would do. Base the entire show on an unused script from DS9. Namely the OTHER script they had where they wanted to revisit a bit of TOS for the 30th anniversary of Trek.
Y'all remember that mafia planet that came about when a Starfleet exploratory team accidentally left a stash of literature on the planet and the people emulated the 1920's Chicago Mob? Well the DS9 team wanted to do an episode about them, except this time their knack for imitation would have led them to imitate something other than the mafia, namely they would have imitated the TOS era Federation. The Iotians were essentially supposed to have become more or less your stereotypical Trek fan put into a position

How about that for a damn show. The entire first episode could be a massive switcheroo as you think we're going to be getting a show set in the TOS era and then suddenly a post-TNG/DS9/VOY era (while ignoring anything that was created after Enterprise) Federation ship shows up and we get to see the comedic clash of the Federation and the Fauxderation while they try to sort this mess out. After the first episode we can start to move away from the gimmick a bit but keep a good number of our core characters be Iotians who can be used for comedic interplay with the proper Starfleet officers.
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That sounds like the Gene Roddenberry story...

@King Dead

III all on it's own is silly and over the top. It starts with 10 minutes of pointless exposition. Basically, they literally run the last 10 minutes of II, copy and paste it into III for no other reason than doing a voice over: "previously on last weeks episode of Star Trek..." - which I would have preferred a 2 minute voice over. The whole "Genesis wave/effect bringing back Spocks body to life is still unbelievable to this day for me. Half the script was written just for fan based reactions and "in jokes" .which excludes the other half. It is far more painful for me to watch than any other crappy Star Trek movie (except any JJ "directed" drivel)

When I first saw II in the theaters a brazillion years ago, I actually hoped they would stop right there with Star Trek. It would have been a nice send of...and remind us that everything dies eventually... we should get on with our lives. But no..they had to milk that cash cow to death....
 
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AnOminous said:
The death of Spock at the end of Khan is one of the best scenes in the movies, but unfortunately it left them with the problem that now you've fucking killed Spock. So III suffers from the fact that you spend an entire movie undoing the last few minutes of the previous movie.
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This is totally true, but in fairness to the people who made The Wrath of Khan, they had no way of knowing that Nimoy would actually want to come back. (They only killed Spock in the first place because he wanted to die.) For the record though, I'm glad that Spock came back, even if it took a relatively mediocre movie to make it happen. (tl;dr, If you hate "The Search for Spock", blame Nimoy, and not even because he directed it.)

Here's another angle to this. Everyone always says that "The Search for Spock" suffers because it's in between "The Wrath of Khan" and "The Voyage Home"... And yeah, this is kind of true... But I posit that "The Voyage Home" would not have been nearly as good as it was if "The Search for Spock" was unsuccessful... (i.e. if Spock stayed dead) And a double dumbass on you if you disagree.
 
Exceptionally Exceptional said:
If you let me make a Star Trek series right now I know exactly what I would do. Base the entire show on an unused script from DS9. Namely the OTHER script they had where they wanted to revisit a bit of TOS for the 30th anniversary of Trek.
Y'all remember that mafia planet that came about when a Starfleet exploratory team accidentally left a stash of literature on the planet and the people emulated the 1920's Chicago Mob? Well the DS9 team wanted to do an episode about them, except this time their knack for imitation would have led them to imitate something other than the mafia, namely they would have imitated the TOS era Federation. The Iotians were essentially supposed to have become more or less your stereotypical Trek fan put into a position

How about that for a damn show. The entire first episode could be a massive switcheroo as you think we're going to be getting a show set in the TOS era and then suddenly a post-TNG/DS9/VOY era (while ignoring anything that was created after Enterprise) Federation ship shows up and we get to see the comedic clash of the Federation and the Fauxderation while they try to sort this mess out. After the first episode we can start to move away from the gimmick a bit but keep a good number of our core characters be Iotians who can be used for comedic interplay with the proper Starfleet officers.
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Galaxy Quest the series?

Could work.... I'd love to see you try.
 
I'm working my way through TNG for the first time and I regularly check each episode's cast on IMDB. I kept running into "ensign russell" but didn't recognize "her" and didn't look deeper into it. What a fuckin' trip... I just happened to dig into who ensign russell was when watching the episode "The Outcast". Total mindfuck.
 
fat old sun said:
I'm working my way through TNG for the first time and I regularly check each episode's cast on IMDB. I kept running into "ensign russell" but didn't recognize "her" and didn't look deeper into it. What a fuckin' trip... I just happened to dig into who ensign russell was when watching the episode "The Outcast". Total mindfuck.
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Condolences, TNG is a real fucking slog to get through.
 
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