Man, I'm powerleveling a bit, but I remember when people on forums back when DS9 was still airing were going full "not muh Trek". But, I dunno. It didn't disregard continuity and it did a better job of showing how the Federation's ideals did (And didn't) stand up to a full-on war as well as tell some really nuanced stories with a lot of subtlety. "In the Pale Moonlight" is such a fantastic episode in particular.
Every new Trek show has its detractors because it's not the old one, you just have to determine for yourself if it's good and then check back around season 4 or 5 to see what fans think then. Also to be fair s1 of DS9 was not exactly amazing. Every Star Trek show needs a little time to find its legs. The problem is they usually improve each season, NuTrek has gotten worse each season.
Sorry this has been explained but how can Q be dying? We had a whole fucking court case about a Q wanting to kill himself, they had a war afterwards but I thought that was Q killing other Q in a purge
They don't know Star Trek, though, they can't be expected to remember that episode of Voyager that involved Q but wasn't any of the ones people meme on and remember because it was part of a larger arc. They probably don't remember that Q came to DS9 once either. There's an episode of Discovery claiming the huge space vortex is 'different from anything the Q have done before' too. They only know the big memed on moments and the movies.
Borders bad. Countries bad. Soy good.
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Is he a joke to you
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DS9 was great but not because it was a grimdark deconstruction of Star Track as some people misremember (it wasn't), but because it had a great cast and great writing.
It was a refreshing change of tone from TNG, which was a bit too blandly self righteous for its own good. Sisko was kind of an asshole (when he wasn't a Magnificent Bastard), but unlike the Tumblr-tier cast of NuTrek he was a competent and professional asshole who usually treated people with respect. He was also a good Dad, something that requires the actor and script to portray a level of emotional maturity to pull off. NuTrek is for emotionally arrested Millennial man-and/or-womanchildren who literally can't adult, they don't know how. You can imagine Ben Sisko, or Julian Bashir, or even poor Miles O'Brien doing actual jobs that require intelligence, discipline and diligence. You can't imagine NuTrek characters doing those things, because they're written by people who can't get thru the day without crying and shaking on social media.
Also the girls of DS9 were hot and I would slingshot around the sun and travel back to 1997 to have sex with them.
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DS9 did some deconstructing, but it was more like challenging and putting it to a microscope. They asked difficult questions and demanded answers of the Federation and Starfleet, but they didn't go out the gate saying it was bad or expecting failure. Magicians (the books not the tv show) tries to be a deconstruction of Narnia to point out "actually Narnia is bad", DS9 never said "actually the Federation is bad", it only said "Is the Federation really perfect?" - and it spends
a lot of time praising humans and the Federation, too. Like Quark's speech to Nog about how dangerous humans are with their back against the wall, or Quark's speech about root beer to Garak. It gets the reputation for being a deconstruction because it's what people expected and blew it out of proportion to be, but it really wasn't.
That said, Bashir was Wesley and Neelix early on. Insufferable, incompetent yet somehow over-competent at the same time, and endlessly annoying to most people. "Dr. Bashir, I Presume" was just an incredibly agile retcon that transformed the character from hated into incredibly well loved, to the point where people forget he was ever hated in the first place - the retcon actually successfully improving future rewatches. Without that, you'd likely not be listing him, or say something like 'except Bashir'.
(Incidentally if you read the trivia about that episode you'll find this was an impulsive decision for a one-off episode because they just wanted Bashir to have some dark secret related to the EMH. This probably explains why only in DS9 did they take the hated character and brilliantly retcon him into someone beloved. They did it on accident the one time they managed it.)
I wanted to like SGU but it wouldn't let me. The chronic unprofessionalism, the grimy feeling I got from watching notionally sympathetic characters treat other people's bodies like Real dolls, the way that the premise removed so much agency from the characters they had nothing to do but deal with problems of the week and have psychodrama, all wrapped up in a Stargate package that was so off-brand that it felt like I'd tuned into an episode of The A-Team and instead of action I'd gotten an episode about the finer points of dairy farming a la Silver Spoon.
Kingdom Come: Deliverance, Pathologic, Silent Hill, and Mass Effect are all video games. Don't you dare besmirch video game writing by comparing it to this crap.
Honestly, there's a lot about SGU you can try to be softer on when you come back to it because the concept isn't terrible, and the last few episodes are also not terrible, but there is just so much you have to ignore in it to say it's good. The military act like unhinged civilians, the civilians act like mental patients, there's pointless copious sex everywhere and relatable 'modern music' scenes randomly thrown in every episode, The characters are either horrifically unlikable, die, or become unlikable over time. There's so much wasted pointless time wasters like that whole arc about the miscarriage that faked out viewers for a bit, the characters use other innocent people's bodies for drugs and sex, meanwhile I believe their own bodies are kept quarantined on the ship (they tried to retcon this in interviews by saying the people signed a waiver, but in the end they're still doing things like taking drugs in other people's bodies) and the writers were so out of touch that they brought in Jack and Daniel from SG-1 and had those characters react with horror and disgust
and thought it was a good thing. Because "We're not writing square jawed heroes anymore, we're writing real, flawed people"
They also just didn't know how to handle the concept they gave themselves. They had no experience with what they wanted to do, which was 'jump to a totally new galaxy every few episodes, so that everything is wildly different, there are no recurring characters except those on the ship and no permanent threat except the ship' - they even relented and gave them control of the ship because 'they don't even have control of the ship or when the gate dials' was too difficult for them to write. Also the cinematography was terrible because they wanted to do a style totally contrary to what they were used to.
