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- Apr 26, 2016
That is literally what happened when I posed that issue in a couple of Trek forums.
Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier
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That is literally what happened when I posed that issue in a couple of Trek forums.
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- Aug 1, 2021
to be fair, Kira isn't a lesbian though? She has relationships with men throughout the series? I mean, I guess she's aggressive and domineering like a lesbian, but she isn't a lesbian in the same way even say Dax could be said to be?
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- Mar 5, 2021
@Iron Jaguar is new to the thread and doesn’t know what the groupthink is supposed to be. Feels organic if slightly bitchy.
You do have incels and 50 IQ shut-ins who are too embarassing for Stormfront. After awhile it becomes deleterious to your well-being to be immersed in all of that.
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- Mar 23, 2016
You know... I would have prefered to be wrong tbh. That's just depressing.
But also kinda hilarious, these people are so easy to predict sometimes
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- Feb 5, 2021
That's not my definition of "woman", and those traits are precisely why I found her so unlikeable. And she was boring. All that fake Bajoran mysticism nonsense was very tiresome.
I just thought Avery Brooks was a poor actor. He came across as a Black Guy trying to be a Black version of Picard/James Earl Jones, but without any actual gravitas.
Travoltron
kiwifarms.net
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- Aug 14, 2018
Well, I do agree that they were less interesting than the supporting cast. Sisko got better as the series went on. I also hated the Bajoran mumbo-jumbo and found their politics extremely tedious. I always turn the channel if it's one of those episodes.
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- Sep 25, 2019
I'm so late reacting to this but, fuck yes. This is exactly what I wanted. Wheaton to be chained to the sinking, burning hulk that is NuTrek and then thrown straight overboard. Now we know why he was shilling this series so hard and dick sucking the producers at every turn. He thinks this is his big break.
He's so absolutely fucked now. Literally nobody is going to forgive him for this, and he seems to legitimately have no idea. This is the ultimate washed up has-been moment from which there will be no recovery.
This almost, almost makes me think the whole of Star Trek: Picard and the original cast's involvement in it is actually just so they could all play a huge joke on Wheaton and make him the main character of the worst Star Trek series ever made. Its definitely too good to be true, but the end result will be pretty much the same anyway.
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- Mar 5, 2021
He seems to 'come alive' in episodes that are worthy of his efforts.
Wish Mulgrew could take a page from his book. Poor woman.
Travoltron
kiwifarms.net
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- Aug 14, 2018
Wesley becoming the new Q would be hilariously retarded. I hope they do it!
Sexual Chocolate
kiwifarms.net
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- Jan 7, 2019
The guy's 50 years young, can't act, isn't funny, isn't popular, and looks like shit. Even by the low, fat, emotionally incontinent standards of NuTrek, he's not really castable as a regular actor anymore.
Also I nearly died of secondhand cringe watching the guy "interview" real actors. It's like if Rupert Pupkin had no balls
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- Mar 5, 2021
something something voldemort trump putin thanos
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- Sep 25, 2019
@AllanonOnly whats shown on screen is canon, nothing else. No books, no games.
D.C. Fontana On TAS Canon (and Sybok)
Dorothy Fontana (aka D.C. Fontana) was with Star Trek since the beginning as both a writer and Story Editor for Star Trek: The Original Series. She had the same job for The Animated Series and went on to write episodes for both TNG and DS9 (and even for the recent Trek game and New Voyages fan...trekmovie.com
So whats canon now? Data being dead or having his matrix put into B4 and being Captain of the E and/or being retired in STO?
Ex Astris Scientia - What is Canon?
Canon as a general concept, canon in Star Trek, canon at EASwww.ex-astris-scientia.org
Novels and games
Only televised Star Trek is canon. This explicitly excludes books, and above all the myriad of novels based on Star Trek. None of them are canon in the view of Paramount/CBS, although many of them would fit into the timeline and would be largely free of anti-canon notions. The above mentioned royalty issue forbids (or makes it very unlikely) that characters established in the books ever find their way into canon Trek. The same applies to all Trek-themed games and other merchandise.
There can't be any exception along the lines "But these are soooo popular" or "She is such an excellent writer" or "He has been working on the series for years". Sorry, but any discussion of canon facts at EAS is strictly off-limits for material from novels and games. I also don't consider to introduce anything like an acknowledged "beta canon" level at EAS.
Ships designs from the MMORPG Star Trek Online appear in the second season of Star Trek Picard. This has prompted some fans to declare that "all STO ships are canon now" or "all of STO is canon now". This is a misconception. Single ships from the Star Trek Technical Manual or even from other sci-fi universes have appeared in Trek shows and movies before, without making them canon within the Star Trek Universe.
Irrespective of the quality and of the realism of the STO starship designs (which are often rather imitations of canon classes, rather than variations), the following always was and will remain a firm principle at EAS: If ships appear in a canon Trek show, they are canon. If they don't, they are not canon.
Both of these takes are incorrect. The canon policy of Ex Astris Scientia is the strict interpretation of the website's owner, who is not an official Trek writer, producer, or anything like that. Just a very distinguished grey neckbeard who runs one of the oldest Trek sites on the web. His policy of always ignoring anything not on screen dates back to long before NuTrek altogether, before the Abramsverse movies were even proposed. Its definitely not indicative of the actual policy towards the Novelverse and STO, but its also not a butthurt response to how shit the newer series have been.
That said, I do fully agree with the EAS take on canon for the simple fact that the Novelverse and STO fucking suck storywise. They're not (always) as bad as NuTrek, but they suffer from a lot of nonsense and poor writing choices that really make me hate EUs in the first place. Its harsh, and it makes people who grew up with/got old on the EU stuff mad, but in my opinion its licensed fanfiction and it will never be anything else. I'm honestly not going to treat a book or a videogame like its canon just because the company says its canon and it has the actors from the show appearing in it. Otherwise you may as well argue that Aliens: Colonial Marines is canon. And brother, I'm not gonna stand for that.
What EAS won't state because the guy who runs it isn't quite as jaded as I am is that canon, especially nowadays, is just a marketing gimmick. It was a marketing gimmick back when George Lucas just flatly said everything in the Star Wars EU is canon, and its just as much a marketing gimmick when it comes to Star Trek. Even the canonization of The Animated Series, something Roddenberry and most of the writers of the show agreed was non-canon before TNG ever launched, happened as a marketing gimmick. TAS pretty much became canon because the new DVD box set was coming out. Sure, they shy away from saying, explicitly, its canon, but the article details that both Startrek.com and even Star Trek the Magazine were in on it. Coming full circle, EAS wrote a short article on the topic. And of course, because Lower Decks considers TAS canon, there are a whole slew of recent articles confirming that TAS is definitely for real no kidding canon.
I don't see anyone in a rush to get the old Interplay games canonized even though the first two had the entire cast of the show in them. Or Starfleet Academy and Klingon Academy for that matter. Hell, those games would have fewer problems being canonized than even TAS did. But STO gets a free pass, why? Because its new, and right now its making money for the people making it. NuTrek otherwise ignores it though, because there's no actual canon policy going on here, its just "If the company still supports it, its canon."
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- Jul 30, 2017
@L50LasPak
As has been pointed out on this thread, NuTrek ignores what's ACTUALLY canon anyway, so it's no surprise it's going to ignore bonus material too.
I mean to get real, once upon a time I was really into canon and all that with Trek and Wars both. Even as a young bot I could understand that not everything written in a book was going to show up on an episode but I could enjoy them anyway.
Now that the shows and movies have made clear it doesn't even matter what happens on screen then I have to ask why should I care? You can slap the "title" onto anything you want, but if it doesn't bother to actually put in the work to match the work as a whole, then it is simply those 3 dreaded words: IN NAME ONLY.
Now let's all take a moment to enjoy SFDebris hating on the first episode of Lower Decks and how shit it was.
As has been pointed out on this thread, NuTrek ignores what's ACTUALLY canon anyway, so it's no surprise it's going to ignore bonus material too.
I mean to get real, once upon a time I was really into canon and all that with Trek and Wars both. Even as a young bot I could understand that not everything written in a book was going to show up on an episode but I could enjoy them anyway.
Now that the shows and movies have made clear it doesn't even matter what happens on screen then I have to ask why should I care? You can slap the "title" onto anything you want, but if it doesn't bother to actually put in the work to match the work as a whole, then it is simply those 3 dreaded words: IN NAME ONLY.
Now let's all take a moment to enjoy SFDebris hating on the first episode of Lower Decks and how shit it was.
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- May 12, 2020
Guys, I'm confused. They say this series is the bestest Trek EVA in the franchise and that we're all poopy manbabies for hating it.
Oh, who am I kidding?! The ratings are abysmal!
Oh, who am I kidding?! The ratings are abysmal!
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As Wil Wheaton takes me on this tour of Hell, I start to wonder if the drop in viewing figures was justified.Oh, who am I kidding?! The ratings are abysmal!
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- May 12, 2020
It's kind of like the new JAG. Only seniors watched it in retirement homes. Even then, they barely focused on it from their checkers and shuffleboard.
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- May 25, 2013
yeah if you can handle forbidden horse there's a decent amount of Q content in the show
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At this point the only way they could go any lower is give Wil Wheaton his own series with him having full creative control. Then again that might end up being better because it would be so bad that it becomes funny.
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- Mar 21, 2019
@L50LasPak You're not wrong that canon is ultimately a gimmick to sell more of whatever is considered 'canon', but for communication and understanding purposes, you still have to consider what is or isn't canon. In theory - outside of communication where you really do need it - you don't really need a canon because it's all fiction and so the truth is none of it happened, the suspension of disbelief a person experiences that allows them to enjoy fiction relies on consistency and coherency. Canon that is at least generally defined and followed is pretty much required for it. Not just so you have an idea of what to expect in the story going forward, but also so you know what is and isn't possible, and what is and isn't going to be referenced/acknowledged.
The novels - not just in Star Trek but in most works - have always been "canon insomuch as they haven't been contradicted" which means that no future writing ever has to reference it, nor are they bound by anything established in it, but they could choose to be. Certain things like AR experiences and fanfiction or whatever have always been "noncanon" which means they'll never be referenced, and if something happens that's along those same lines or appears to reference it, it's by coincidence. Official entries like tv shows are considered "canon" because they're generally expected to follow established rules and if they establish new rules or have new events, future entries are expected to adhere to those as well. Usually I put games somewhere between novels and fanfiction in their level of canonicity, where they're bound by the rules established elsewhere in the franchise, but they'll probably never have any impact on anything in the 'main' canon. The only reason I look at STO differently is because the makers of it were so adamant that while there were no more ST shows continuing the main timeline (especially so once the Kelvin movies started), the Star Trek continuity officially continued in their hands - and they had the writers' credits and the such to show for it.
Admittedly the writing and stories are mostly just middling, but it's still much better than anything NuTrek or KelvinTrek had to offer. It's unfortunate they decided to keep Romulus' sun blowing up because 'technically that was in the main timeline', but unlike every other entry that just takes it at face value that a sun could randomly explode and ruin an entire star spanning empire, they at least try to make it make sense. It's much better than the ridiculous Romulan Refugees and Only Truthers And Swords that Picard came up with.
The novels - not just in Star Trek but in most works - have always been "canon insomuch as they haven't been contradicted" which means that no future writing ever has to reference it, nor are they bound by anything established in it, but they could choose to be. Certain things like AR experiences and fanfiction or whatever have always been "noncanon" which means they'll never be referenced, and if something happens that's along those same lines or appears to reference it, it's by coincidence. Official entries like tv shows are considered "canon" because they're generally expected to follow established rules and if they establish new rules or have new events, future entries are expected to adhere to those as well. Usually I put games somewhere between novels and fanfiction in their level of canonicity, where they're bound by the rules established elsewhere in the franchise, but they'll probably never have any impact on anything in the 'main' canon. The only reason I look at STO differently is because the makers of it were so adamant that while there were no more ST shows continuing the main timeline (especially so once the Kelvin movies started), the Star Trek continuity officially continued in their hands - and they had the writers' credits and the such to show for it.
Admittedly the writing and stories are mostly just middling, but it's still much better than anything NuTrek or KelvinTrek had to offer. It's unfortunate they decided to keep Romulus' sun blowing up because 'technically that was in the main timeline', but unlike every other entry that just takes it at face value that a sun could randomly explode and ruin an entire star spanning empire, they at least try to make it make sense. It's much better than the ridiculous Romulan Refugees and Only Truthers And Swords that Picard came up with.
I really find the Q a very interesting species, or phenomenon or whatever they're properly classified as. Not just DeLancie Q, but all of them are so different and weird compared to humans that it's criminal how little they're utilized when they can be used to do so much - and not just the writers' hated "snap away the trouble of the episode" trope. Beings that think being human-esque is to be 'ultra super hammy' have a lot of potential.
Most police are already some variation of Odo's personality, though.