Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier
- Thread starter Snorlaxative
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Phalanges Mycologist
kiwifarms.net
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- Sep 11, 2021
No your not alone, the Bajoran concept was a good one that was messed with by the religion but trek doesn't do species differences from differing cultures well every single species thinks the same acts the same talks the same etc, dominate culture aside there would be differences especially when it comes to religious doctrine and how it's enforced or followed i.e. Catholicisim vs Eastern Orthodox Christians, Sunni vs Sheiate Muslims, various forms of budisim etc all have there own internal conflicts and differences.
Picard's classification of them being really advanced culturaly and scientifically before humans was dumb, I can see a species having a downfall in society and technology and as a result of them becoming more religious with all the problems that brings to a society in decline and then the Cardassians taking advantage of that.
But I want to see some diversity in trek, why isn't there Amish Bajorans who are more backwards in there belifes, more secular bajorans who want to keep church and state seperate, etc or any species really the closes we see is the odd "Logic extreemist" in the Vulcans and the odd human group who are normaly a stand in for a real world idea or movement.
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2016
So I just watched the latest episode the of the orville and I had star trek Discovery season 1 flash backs, they coded alot of trumpish 2020 election shit in it.
only thing is there was still a story and plot and it wasnt nearly as cartoonish
I still saw what they did and didnt like it but at least they didnt treat the audeince as idoits
only thing is there was still a story and plot and it wasnt nearly as cartoonish
I still saw what they did and didnt like it but at least they didnt treat the audeince as idoits
Grand Wizard Wakka
kiwifarms.net
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- May 30, 2020
I always thought that was deliberate and what was great about the writing of DS9 in its early seasons. They didn't portray anyone as pure good or evil, until they let Ira off his leash.
The Krill reacting to Annie was hilarious. "The prophecy of the orphan child was... haunting: a sun will come out... tomorrow..." "In our culture, the sun is a symbol of suffering and death."
But yeah, it was really heavy handed in how pro-Trump it was. A close election, and the man who was President being falsely defamed as a criminal. Discrediting the media as spreading lies and false flags.
And dont even get me started on how they showed the daughter was happy to not be aborted. What a bunch of right wing propaganda.
Especially with the moral of the episode being that women are bad leaders and men are good leaders.
But yeah, it was really heavy handed in how pro-Trump it was. A close election, and the man who was President being falsely defamed as a criminal. Discrediting the media as spreading lies and false flags.
And dont even get me started on how they showed the daughter was happy to not be aborted. What a bunch of right wing propaganda.
Especially with the moral of the episode being that women are bad leaders and men are good leaders.
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- Joined
- Sep 13, 2018
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- Jan 29, 2022
This week's SNW episode was everything I expected Nu Trek to be.
A weak, cowardly white male.
Two lesbian bull dykes.
Blacks as the royalty.
A child creating their own reality as a way to survive (much like twitter/reddit users)
The show hasn't been terrible so far, but this was the most Nu-Trekish of the lot.
As for the Orville
A weak, cowardly white male.
Two lesbian bull dykes.
Blacks as the royalty.
A child creating their own reality as a way to survive (much like twitter/reddit users)
The show hasn't been terrible so far, but this was the most Nu-Trekish of the lot.
As for the Orville
When Ed asks Teleya why she had Anaya, she says "how human of you to ask that question! But then you terminate life with abandon, do you not?" This is a FANTASTIC line. Teleya isn't exactly a great mother, but she is true to her own personal pro-life beliefs. And rather than being completely one-sided, the writers (who I can only assume are pro-choice) allow Teleya to make humanity sound kind of bad. It makes her a more compelling character, and it improves the story.
However, they went too far. Teleya and Ed seemingly walk down the hall where they just so happen to have a couple who decided not to have a baby. This scene just felt so forced, and trite, and was completely unnecessary.
However, they went too far. Teleya and Ed seemingly walk down the hall where they just so happen to have a couple who decided not to have a baby. This scene just felt so forced, and trite, and was completely unnecessary.
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- Joined
- Oct 4, 2019
Maybe its just me but I think that was kind of the point. DS9 being the gritty morally gray show it is, they wanted to show that the oppressors actually had some good qualities while the oppressed had some bad qualities. It makes the conflict more interesting, because at face value you'd side with the bajorans because "we were a peaceful people" but as you see more of them its harder to consider it a purely good vs bad conflict.
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- Sep 3, 2017
Unless it's Kira's mom.
Saturnalia-1918
kiwifarms.net
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- Dec 16, 2019
Did the Cardassians have replicators? Because otherwise what resources did Bajor have that required the mining space station that couldn't be replicated?
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- Sep 3, 2017
Cardassians had developed (or at least obtained) replicator technology (Cardassia gave industrial replicators to Bajor) but their society was structured in a completely different fashion than that of Earth and the humans of the Federation. Having the tools to create prosperity and seeing that prosperity made its way to every member of society are two completely different concepts.
Saturnalia-1918
kiwifarms.net
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- Dec 16, 2019
So was the Bajoran occupation more about keeping territory than any mineral extraction?
Grand Wizard Wakka
kiwifarms.net
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- May 30, 2020
They were trying to civilize those religious barbarians.
How cruel and evil.
A good man would bestow good jobs upon these people, like mining, and the lucky ones could become comfort women.
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2017
Not at all. The Cardassian occupation was expressly about gathering resources if the Cardassian point of view is to be believed. Bajor was exceptionally bountiful in terms of resources and its population was bent more toward cultural pursuits as opposed to the militaristic Cardassians. The negative view of the Bajorans by the Cardassians also played into this, as the Cardassians had a long history of conquest over weaker races. And before the occupation began the Bajorans were not in any position to act as a military power.
Additionally, I am sure it did not go unnoticed at Central Command that Bajor was a excellent strategic outpost. Take a look at this map:
Cardassia Prime was uncomfortably close to a border with the Federation, a benevolent but ever-expanding state. Bajor, in addition to its rich supply of resources offered an excellent bulwark against Federation expansion and a suitable buffer zone to protect Cardassia. And this is all decades before anyone even knew about the stability of Bajor's wormhole.
So you've got a resource-rich planet that is also of excellent overall quality; Bajor is not some low-tier Class M planet, but a jewel of a planet not unlike Earth (plus it has five moons). That planet is settled by a non-militaristic and unassuming population. And that planet is not only not aligned with the massive neighboring power, but it is directly in the path of that massive neighboring power. For a state like the Cardassian Union, Bajor was an obvious choice for subjugation and despite their withdrawal, the Cardassians made out like bandits as a result of their occupation. They were able to cultivate a military fighting force that allowed them to go toe-to-toe with the Federation, despite the fact that the Federation was ostensibly a much more capable power.
In summary: Star Trek in 2022 is a hollow shell of its former self and there is nothing nearly as interesting as this one conversation in any of the last 20 years of Star Trek combined.
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- Sep 7, 2019
it just makes them horny to the point they want to fuck anything. the vulcan in voyager desperately needed to breed a human/klingon mix after all.
I took pon farr always as nature giving vulcans the middle finger and help them out, otherwise they would be so logical to make themselves cease to exist. "what to you mean fucking for fun, do I look like a human? and have you looked at the cost and effort of raising a kid? and don't get me started about raising a daughter *hitspipe*. shit ain't logical captain!"
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- Sep 3, 2017
It made the least sense on Voyager.
You'd think there would be at least one woman on board that would want to be spit roasted.
marvlouslie
kiwifarms.net
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- Nov 27, 2021
Neil, honey, did you actually WATCH the fucking episode?
It is a literal taboo in Trill society for a symbiote who was once romantically involved in a relationship to re-engage in that relationship if the symbiote changes hosts (ESPECIALLY if said symbiote changes genders as DAX had done).
There were ACTUAL fucking consequences for what they were doing. It wasn't just, "hey, Star Trek fans, here's two women kissing, get over it". There was an actual fucking PLOT, and actual fucking CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.
Now the marketing might've been overt in the messaging, but the episode itself was not.
The entire episode was about love and loss and moving on, but no, that's not what this generation gets from it.
The woman who Dax knew (as Curzon) just wanted a final moment to say goodbye to Dax and actually learned to move on instead of holding onto the past.
This has nothing to do with the bullshit marketing behind the episode, because despite the pandering, it was actually a really good episode for Jadiza.
It is a literal taboo in Trill society for a symbiote who was once romantically involved in a relationship to re-engage in that relationship if the symbiote changes hosts (ESPECIALLY if said symbiote changes genders as DAX had done).
There were ACTUAL fucking consequences for what they were doing. It wasn't just, "hey, Star Trek fans, here's two women kissing, get over it". There was an actual fucking PLOT, and actual fucking CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.
Now the marketing might've been overt in the messaging, but the episode itself was not.
The entire episode was about love and loss and moving on, but no, that's not what this generation gets from it.
The woman who Dax knew (as Curzon) just wanted a final moment to say goodbye to Dax and actually learned to move on instead of holding onto the past.
This has nothing to do with the bullshit marketing behind the episode, because despite the pandering, it was actually a really good episode for Jadiza.
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- Dec 29, 2015
I fully expect the tenth episode to have Pike giving a speech to an alien species along the lines of, "We used to have terrible people who wouldn't suck the girldick, but when we embraced it, we became the Starfleet we are today!"
Ugh, starting to get really shaky footing.
Ugh, starting to get really shaky footing.
It seems they set up a way for M'Benga to find or create a cure for his daughter... only to have him just give his daughter up to a powerful nebula entity that held the crew hostage. The thing forces M'Benga with an ultimatum. Give me your daughter, or everyone stays in this silly fantasy reality. For all we know, it's a pedonebula. These magical wand-waving resolutions are annoying. My only hope is that he M'Benga realizes that he made a "needs of the many" decision and it HAUNTS him, even if the supposed solution was beneficial to his daughter and crew.
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- Sep 24, 2020
There are some things about the way those borders are drawn that makes me question what I thought I knew about DS9 geo(astro?)politics.
As far as I knew, Bajor was just Bajor. A single planet with no offworld colonies or interstellar territory, barring its moons. In the map, it seems to suggest that the darker/purple area between the blue Federation and the orange Cardie Union is all bajoran space. Especially with that big 'Bajoran' label there.
Alternatively, it's portioned out the way I thought it was. The border to the right of Bajor is the old extent of Cardassian space, until the Federation/Cardassian war. The solid border to the left is how far Cardassia was pushed back. So Bajor is technically in Federation space, but obviously not a member of the UFP, like a handful of pre-contact planets in the TNG-era shows and films. The brown/mixed area marked with a dotted line is the area handed back to the Cardassians, which the Maquis got all uppity about.
Right? Wrong? Somewhere in between?
Okay, the autistic wheels in my head are starting to turn. In DS9 there was some uncertainty about whether Bajor would join the UFP. It was likely, but some way off and there were dissenting factions. In TNG the Malcorian Chancellor asks what would happen if they asked the Feds to stay away: Picard says they'd stay away.
So what happens if Bajor, or a newly warp-capable civilisation inside Federation space, tells the Federation to take a hike, starts to expand their own bubble in the blue part of that map, and the Feds hands are tied by their own directives? What if multiple civilisations do this in different parts of Federation space? It seems like it would be somewhat destabilizing.
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