Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Tasty Tatty said:
Sure, stop watching Star Trek or Wars, marvel movies, comics,etc, but those things are still mass produced and millions still watch them innocently and become influenced by those ideas.
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The idea that there are millions of innocents helplessly being influenced by bad movies and there are a chosen few able to discern for themselves if the movies are bad or not and have to tell them so, displays such a childlike capacity to grasp the theory of the mind, it makes me question if a person who puts it out there is legitimately retarded.
Tasty Tatty said:
If you don't tell your restaurant that the new food they offer you is bad, then they will bringing it back and soon, it's the whole city having the same bad food that people think it's normal to eat and don't complain about because they think it still tastes the same even when it's causing you cancer and diabetes.
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You tell them their food is bad by not eating there. If enough people don't like the new food and stop going there the restaurant will go out of business. This shit isn't hard. This is exactly what is happening to Disney right now with their series of box office bombs over the last year.

Sure, you're free to point out the food is bad. I never said anyone wasn't. There is a big difference between pointing out the food is bad and throwing an autistic shitfit over its existence stating it's an indication of a cultural decline. At the end of the day, I do also think you're free to throw an autistic shitfit over it to be honest, but I'm going to make fun of you for it.
Tasty Tatty said:
Neither Cullen or Drinker are telling people to bomb Hollywood,
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Nobody said they were? When I said Dave was going to shoot up a Denny's, it was hyperbole making fun of how over the top he was about a third string show on a streaming service that's so unpopular, your average person doesn't even know what the fuck it is.
Tasty Tatty said:
they are saying big media is pushing for ideas that are bad for society and they are trying to pass them to children and normies. And they are right.
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I'm not going to claim to have combed through every video either has made, but from what I have seen, there are two very different and distinct themes in Critical Drinker and Dave Cullen's videos.

Critical Drinker- Hollywood studios are pushing woke messages in their movies at the expense of good narratives and people are slowly rejecting these movies leading to the downfall of those same studios.

This is where I am. Given Disney's current box office numbers and the number of subscribers many streaming services are bleeding off, it appears to reflect reality.

Cullen- Hollywood studios are pushing woke messages in their movies and it is gradually causing the downfall of western civilization.

This one is a puritanical argument that when followed to its logical conclusion, would inevitably spiral into argument against free speech and the free market. It uses the same logic that woke people use to cram their ideology into movies in the first place. How will little black girls know they can be mermaids if the movie doesn't tell them they can be mermaids? It is an argument that assumes individuals are helpless drones and the person who is expressing the opinion, (Dave Cullen/Other Youtubers/Hollywood Writers/Whoever) is in some way special and smarter than everyone else. Ironically, people think this way in the first place from consuming too many narratives where the central character is special and is destined to save everyone else. I think the kids today refer to this as main character syndrome.

I think people who try to make the argument Cullen does are such unbelievably cucked consumers whose entire lives have revolved around properties like Star Trek, they cannot help themselves but consume. He is, in fact, the one who is eating slop from the trough. The vast majority of people don't even know what the fuck Strange New Worlds is and it is incredibly unpopular. Dave's video is narrated in a way that makes it sound as though your average consumer is watching this shit, however, Paramount Plus only has around 60,000,000 subscribers worldwide, and the majority of those are boomers watching NCIS reruns. Bad Star Trek is no more a harbinger of the decline of western culture than the terrible Star Wars prequels, the crappy Hobbit trilogy or the awful third Smokey and the Bandit.
Tasty Tatty said:
Woke culture has become the norm because progressiveness is the norm in media.
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Here is the most popular content on the major streaming services currently:
Overall:
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Just Movies:
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A couple of things in there are debatable, but it doesn't seem like it's dominated by woke shit to me. It's almost as if people can discern for themselves that overly woke shit is trash and people like Dave Cullen are not special chosen ones that have to make that determination for them. Imagine that!

I'm sorry you bought into a meme pushed to solicit donations on Locals.
 
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I saw this video where it "updated Star Wars" to add in lines based on retcons and new prequels, as a joke, like Vader mentioning Ahsoka and in ROTJ asking if the flaw built into the Death Star by Galen Urso wouldn't be in the new one, and Obi Wan saying Vader hunted down all the Jedi except for several dozen.

Anyway, it made me think of Strange New Worlds and Discovery. IIRC, Kirk said he only met Pike after he had become a Fleet Admiral, and I guess they tried to BS it in SNW by implying tEcHniCAlly Pike was, since he got to command two ships at one point. But its ridiculous how Kirk "visits" the Enterprise just about every week. Now Scotty is around even.

They actually BS'd that Spock never mentioned his sister cause lol her existence was classified. Wesley Cucker has been going around saying his new headcanon is that Kirk spared Khan originally because he loved Laan from SNW.
 
Its an AU. None of this stuff except maybe pike realizing what he's going to become and accepting it jive well with the old canon.
 
Grand Wizard Wakka said:
Wesley Cucker has been going around saying his new headcanon is that Kirk spared Khan originally because he loved Laan from SNW.
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I really, really wish he would shut up.

Michael Wade said:
Its an AU. None of this stuff except maybe pike realizing what he's going to become and accepting it jive well with the old canon.
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They have actually given themselves that out. The implication, from a few eps back, is that SNW takes place in a different timeline to the original trek.
 
Never Scored said:
The idea that there are millions of innocents helplessly being influenced by bad movies and there are a chosen few able to discern for themselves if the movies are bad or not and have to tell them so, displays such a childlike capacity to grasp the theory of the mind, it makes me question if a person who puts it out there is legitimately retarded.
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Over the past decade, I have seen more evidence that this is how the world really is than not. If enough loud voices in the media started insisting the world is flat, and how dare you imply it's not, it would become a cultural taboo to even suggest the concept that the world might be round. Shit, just look at how much we have to tiptoe around the concept that an aggressive man in a wig and makeup calling himself a woman is actually an aggressive malcontent who shouldn't be judged for wearing his fetishes on his sleeve and getting people in serious trouble for even the smallest of perceived slights.
 
Pissmaster said:
If enough loud voices in the media started insisting the world is flat, and how dare you imply it's not, it would become a cultural taboo to even suggest the concept that the world might be round.
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This has already happened. The Catholic Church used to kill people over it.
 
Pissmaster said:
Over the past decade, I have seen more evidence that this is how the world really is than not. If enough loud voices in the media started insisting the world is flat, and how dare you imply it's not, it would become a cultural taboo to even suggest the concept that the world might be round. Shit, just look at how much we have to tiptoe around the concept that an aggressive man in a wig and makeup calling himself a woman is actually an aggressive malcontent who shouldn't be judged for wearing his fetishes on his sleeve and getting people in serious trouble for even the smallest of perceived slights.
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I agree that a percentage of people including the media and a large number of terminally online people push this stuff. I think there is a cohort of upper middle class to upper class people who are raised totally disconnected from reality and grow up to be the type of people who want to use no kill rat traps because every life is precious, but at the same time they are terrified of rats and pay someone to set those no-kill rat traps for them. Because of how they grew up, this cohort of people is extremely emotionally sensitive and have the ability to put in the time to get their foot in the door in certain industries and they where they push this stuff, because they do not need to work to survive. I also agree a lot of people will play along in public because they do not want to appear impolite or unpleasant. However, I've interacted with way to many people who make fun of the tranny shit to believe a large percentage of people actually take it seriously. I think that's the case with the woke messages in a lot of these movies and TV shows. Just because studios push it, or mentally ill people on Twitter or Reddit are obsessed with it, doesn't mean your average man on the street is buying it. I think you'll find when they put a trans competitive cyclist on the news talking about how he's breaking ground by beating women at cycling, the vast majority of people watching are making fun of it in the privacy of their living room. I think if you're from a very blue collar family like I am, you learn very quickly that normies watching the 5 o'clock news spend most of the time talking about how the news stories are bullshit.
 
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NEVER MIND THAT SHIT
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apparently this dropped at start of the month
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The worst thing for me about Strange New Worlds is that it feels familiar, but off at the same time. I like that they've jettisoned the shitty melodrama and bullshit of STD and gone back to the TNG formula somewhat, but I'm still left feeling a bit hungover about the whole concept. Not a fan of the super futuristic shit (I like The Cage-era uniforms and designs, alright?) and I'm not a huge fan of the characters for the most part. The worst part is that this is probably the best we're going to get in this day and age.

On a tangent, I'm now wholly convinced that Star Trek simply cannot operate on the current streaming formula of smaller, more concise seasons that are mainly devoted around plot arcs. Star Trek works the best, in my opinion, on a long season of self-contained episodes centering around a season/multi-season plot arc in the background. I would say that the shortness of the seasons in SNW, among the other problems tbh, is why I just can't really jive with the characters. None of them really grow on me the same way they did for TOS, TNG, DS9, or even Voyager and Enterprise. I don't feel invested in their stories, and I really just don't care what happens to them.

Especially when I already know what happens to the Captain.
 
Iapetus said:
The worst thing for me about Strange New Worlds is that it feels familiar, but off at the same time. I like that they've jettisoned the shitty melodrama and bullshit of STD and gone back to the TNG formula somewhat, but I'm still left feeling a bit hungover about the whole concept. Not a fan of the super futuristic shit (I like The Cage-era uniforms and designs, alright?) and I'm not a huge fan of the characters for the most part. The worst part is that this is probably the best we're going to get in this day and age.

On a tangent, I'm now wholly convinced that Star Trek simply cannot operate on the current streaming formula of smaller, more concise seasons that are mainly devoted around plot arcs. Star Trek works the best, in my opinion, on a long season of self-contained episodes centering around a season/multi-season plot arc in the background. I would say that the shortness of the seasons in SNW, among the other problems tbh, is why I just can't really jive with the characters. None of them really grow on me the same way they did for TOS, TNG, DS9, or even Voyager and Enterprise. I don't feel invested in their stories, and I really just don't care what happens to them.

Especially when I already know what happens to the Captain.
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Honestly, it's a writing and directing problem. The people who write and direct these shows do not understand formality and emotional distance, so they can't convey that stoicism to their actors. It's character writing they're having trouble with, not plot writing, although the plots aren't good either. Which goes to show how hack frauds they are because character writing is what professional writers are typically trained at first.
 
Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
Honestly, it's a writing and directing problem. The people who write and direct these shows do not understand formality and emotional distance, so they can't convey that stoicism to their actors. It's character writing they're having trouble with, not plot writing, although the plots aren't good either. Which goes to show how hack frauds they are because character writing is what professional writers are typically trained at first.
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I tend to agree and this kind of nails down my biggest problem overall. I can ignore the shitty setpiece design. It is what it is, at this point, and there's no going back. I can even ignore goofy plots as it's not like TOS or TNG didn't have their fair share of stupid plots. But where TOS and TNG make up for those episodes, even within those very episodes, with well-directed actors and skilled character writing SNW and the others fall flat. It feels like shitty fan-fiction where every character is some writer's OC donut steel, with quips and non-serious attitudes.

I blame the millennial generation of writers, who seem to be chronically unable to write anything in a tone of seriousness that isn't obnoxious arthoe Oscar-bait.
 
Iapetus said:
I blame the millennial generation of writers, who seem to be chronically unable to write anything in a tone of seriousness that isn't obnoxious arthoe Oscar-bait.
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I blame Joss Whedon. He single handedly ruined dialogue for two generations.
 
Iapetus said:
I tend to agree and this kind of nails down my biggest problem overall. I can ignore the shitty setpiece design. It is what it is, at this point, and there's no going back. I can even ignore goofy plots as it's not like TOS or TNG didn't have their fair share of stupid plots. But where TOS and TNG make up for those episodes, even within those very episodes, with well-directed actors and skilled character writing SNW and the others fall flat. It feels like shitty fan-fiction where every character is some writer's OC donut steel, with quips and non-serious attitudes.

I blame the millennial generation of writers, who seem to be chronically unable to write anything in a tone of seriousness that isn't obnoxious arthoe Oscar-bait.
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It's not Star Trek (unless we're counting John LaRoquette as a Star Trek actor), but the Night Court sequel is another example of how millenial writing is bad at comedy. Millenial humor requires the actors to talk ALL the time. They do not have straightmen or deadpan snarkers to balance out comic reliefs. There's no Roz to give side eyes of disapproval and by collorary, an ability to use uncomfortable silence for comedic purposes.

So why am I talking about comedy? Well, if you can't write comedy, you sure can't write drama either.
White Devil said:
I blame Joss Whedon. He single handedly ruined dialogue for two generations.
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I actually disagree. Pre-MCU, his characters didn't have tongue-in-cheek quips and that is a significant body of work. I don't remember quips a minute in Dollhouse or Firefly. Maybe they were in Buffy, but I doubt it. Even in Avengers 1, jokes that relieved tension were rare. "I understood that reference" or "I need men in those buildings and set up a perimeter on 39th street..." were there, but they didn't dictate the tone of every scene. You know who consistently tells jokes a minute, oftentimes to the detriment to the scene? James Gunn. It's in Phase 3 that we see the MCU formula as we understand it and everyone else has been copying James Gunn ever since.
 
I haven't watched season two of Strange New Worlds so I can't speak to it, but I have watched season one and I think you guys have absolutely hit the nail on the head. Some of the ideas are pretty good, I like the little story where the doctor is keeping his sick daughter alive in the transporter buffer, for example. However, it all gets undercut by the shitty characters and dialogue that come straight out of a Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode.

Actually in season one the doctor and engineer are probably the best written characters, because they're the only ones that take their job fucking seriously. The bridge crew is constantly making witty retorts and shooting DNA at each other while Kilngons are trying to blow the shit out of them. Is it too much to ask that the crew takes their jobs seriously?
 
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